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Palo Alto Mayor Larry Klein said today that an e-mail he sent to neighbors stating there are no plans for restrooms at Pardee Park “may have been premature.”

A story appeared in Friday’s Palo Alto Weekly (Sept. 26) reporting that the City of Palo Alto plans to install restrooms at several parks, including Eleanor Pardee Park. The article prompted 33 e-mails to Klein, of which only two favored toilets, he said.

Some residents told the Weekly they fear restrooms would encourage partiers to hang out in the park all day and night and would turn the neighborhood park into a regional one.

City Public Works Department staff planners said last week public restrooms are planned for several parks in the next few years as part of the city’s capital-improvements budget.

The restrooms were approved as part of the budget since June 2005, according to Steve Emslie, the city’s interim deputy city manager. The restrooms were also approved in subsequent budgets — 2006, 2007 and 2008, he added.

“Obviously, I was not fully informed but the sentiments expressed do accurately represent my views,” Klein said today (Monday) in an e-mail to the Weekly.

“Further, as a one-time resident of the Eleanor Park area, my recollection is that this issue had been raised and rejected before.

“Given that history I was not surprised by the negative reaction of the neighborhood. What I am surprised by is the seeming lack of communication between staff and the neighborhood.”

But Emslie pointed to a city manager’s report dated March 12, 2007, in which the toilets were “part of the the top-10 list of projects [to be paid for with] development-impact fees to enhance recreational facilities at neighborhood parks,” he said.

What was cited as justification in 2005 is that “this project supersedes planned projects as it will reduce health issues in public parks and improve sanitation conditions in parks,” Emslie said, reading from the project.

“What’s unique about Pardee is both the size of the children’s play area and the community garden. Some proponents complain that people use the community garden as a restroom area. And people who use the garden often are there for a long time,” he said.

Emslie said his department had received 28 e-mails about the toilet issue and that City Manager Jim Keene would respond personally to those residents.

Not withstanding the city’s past approval of the restrooms, “It’s OK to take a step back” and make sure a problem is not being created in the neighborhood, Emslie said.

Elizabeth Ames, senior public works engineer for the City of Palo Alto, confirmed her statements as published in Friday’s story.

She clarified that staff-level approval of the toilets by the Architectural Review Board is necessary before a request for construction bids is announced.

Public-outreach meetings will be held before the project goes out to bid.

Outreach “would probably be very involved. … We don’t want to install something the public doesn’t want. They are our customers,” she said.

Emslie added that Palo Alto Police Chief Lynne Johnson had been meeting with some residents of Crescent Park. Emslie’s department might do some outreach through those meetings, he said.

Community meetings are also planned prior to installation of restrooms at Seale Park. Emslie said he had not received any negative feedback regarding restrooms there.

“Neighbors have been delighted to get restrooms at Hoover Park,” which received new facilities this year, he added.

Emslie said he hoped Crescent Park residents would contact the Midtown Residents Association to share information about their experience with the restrooms — both pro and con.

Klein’s initial e-mail to residents was:

From: Klein, Larry

Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:33 PM …

At present there are no City plans to put toilets in at Eleanor Pardee Park. This is in keeping with the City’s polices for neighborhood parks.

To put in toilets would require an action by the City Council and there would be public hearings and meetings where all could express their views before any vote was taken. There certainly would be issues of public safety and park attractiveness to be discussed if this matter ever comes before the Council. And prior to that would be an examination of the cost, both for initial construction and annual maintenance. My guess is that even the proponents would find such costs to be surprisingly high.

Sincerely,

Larry Klein

Mayor, City of Palo Alto

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34 Comments

  1. For more information, see the Parks & Recreation Commission minutes from April 25, 2006:

    http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/cityagenda/publish/parks-rec-meetings/documents/apr06.pdf

    Item 5 – Park Restroom Policy Change:

    Motion made by Commissioner Steiner:
    Neighborhood parks should also be considered for restrooms based on the following criteria: 1)Patterns of Usage and 2) Staff recommendation. Neighborhood requests should also be taken into consideration. Seconded by Commissioner Markevitch. Approved 7:0

  2. Council saw this restroom proposal on March 12, 2007: http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/cityagenda/publish/cmrs/documents/CMR168-07.pdf

    From the link:

    “The attached list of proposed park projects, including three projects that have been previously approved by Council, include the renovation of sports playing fields at Cubberley, El Camino Park and Greer Park with synthetic turf to increase use by 10 percent to 2 percent; the addition of restrooms at Cubberley, Seale and Eleanor Pardee parks where field and play area usage is notably high; and the addition of lights at the Cubberley Community Center tennis courts to result in an increase in tennis usage by an estimated 30 percent annually.”

  4. You would think that he would at least have read the minutes of a meeting he failed to attend. Maybe I’m just asking too much of a Mayor for him to actually be interested in what happened while he was away.

  7. According to the staff report linked above, “The anticipated annual maintenance expense required for new restroom facilities is estimated at $5,000 per restroom.”

  9. Ahhhhh, Palo Altans don’t pay much attention until an issue is right in front of their faces. Then all hell breaks loose.

    I don’t envy city staffers. With projects that affect neighbors, the mantra is “It’s not over til it’s over.”

  10. I sure hope they don’t put in this restroom. All those people that relieve themselves in the community garden create good fertilizer for my tomatoes – good nitrogen rich fertilizer.

  11. If my little grandson wants to P in Eleanor Pardee Park and there are no toilets he’ll just do it in the community garden, and that’s not very hygenic. Also, if there are no toilets available, gangs will do it wherever they want.

    If the neighbors of Pardee Park don’t want toilets, don’t waste the budgeted $200,000 on them. Give the toilets to a neighborhood and park that really wants them.

  13. Where are the comments from parents in this neighborhood? Restrooms would be a great resource for children, community service volunteers and other park users. It is very difficult for a family to use a park that has no restrooms. This resource belongs to the whole city and not just the neighbors across the street. Share! Addressing gang issues, couldn’t the restrooms be locked at night? Why make things so difficult on the city? You end up paying for wasted staff time.

  14. I don’t favor toilets there, for the following reasons, not listed in order of importance:

    1. Some months ago, according to e mail conversation I remember seeing (but from whom I don’t know) there was an indication of safety concerns at night, that there were gang markers in the park.

    2. In years or decades past, children played unsupervised in the park during the day; for whatever reason, today parents and care givers don’t seem to let their children go there unsupervised.

    3. At a minimum, the restooms would take extensive maintenance and would have to be locked at night by city staff, so the budget cost is not just construction but is an ongoing cost.

  16. Modern public toilets can be locked remotely, a city worker does not need to come with key in hand to lock the facilities a warning buzzer would sound beforehand to ensure that no one gets locked in.

    By removing public toilets from places the public wants to frequent actually prevents the public from using the park. The elderly, the young, the pregnant, the mail deliverers, all want to use our parks but the lack of toilets often prevent them. If we remove them we are handing over the parks to the drug dealers who couldn’t care less whether they have toilets or not, but recognize that parks with toilets have more general use than those that don’t so often use the less frequented places without toilets.

    What is possibly needed is more police presence in the parks at dusk and after dark as well as on our neighborhood streets. Perhaps the police could spend time in the parks having their breaks rather than the doughnut shops (joke).

  17. To Carl: Why do you think toilets in Eleanor Pardee Park would attract more gang activity? Are you serious? Do you know what happens to gang member sissies if they actually use the toilets?

    Gangs members are the absolute last people that would be attracted by toilets.

  18. Contrary to most of the comments published, there are many large groups that use Pardee Park and STAY ALL DAY…………and they use the bushes and the gardens as bathrooms. Those of us who go to the park every day are well aware of this. I am afraid a lot of the folks who object to the toilets have not really been to the park lately………it really is a public health issue.

  19. Contrary to most of the comments published, there are many large groups that use Pardee Park and STAY ALL DAY…………and they use the bushes and the gardens as bathrooms. Those of us who go to the park every day are well aware of this. I am afraid a lot of the folks who object to the toilets have not really been to the park lately………it really is a public health issue.

  20. I am frustrated that the city manager aurhorizes his people to put out for bid items that are not required and will require additional expenses every year. I guess we have too much money to spend in Palo Alto. For 50+ years we have NOT had toilets in Eleanor Park…let’s go another 50 before we bring it up again.
    Thanks!

  22. I think hearings should be held BEFORE time and money is spent on a project. I’m annoyed by the city staffer who thinks everyone should have known about the city’s plans for toilets because it was in the budget. The residents find out about city plans when they are notified and hearings are held. I’ve lived in Crescent Park for 32 years and residents have fought having toilets all that time. Should the staffer have known about the negative history of toilets in the park? We already have many out of towners using our park, and although we welcome people from other towns, we know the addition of toilets is like a beacon asking for more. Our park is a small “neighborhood”park. In the mid 1980s our park and others were over-used and abused and many of us remember those days, and it wasn’t a pleasant experience.

  23. I don’t think additional “out of towners”, will use Pardee Park because of the bathrooms, most of the tables are full and all of the “soccer field” is taken on every weekend already. You’ll just have a cleaner, more sanitary park.

    I do think groups larger then a certain size (perhaps 10) should be required to reserve tables at ANY park in Palo alto, all parks should require a liquor permit and signs should be posted for the appropriate use and hours of the park, for example, Heritage Park is not a soccer field but every Saturday and Sunday there are soccer games going on…

  24. Hey folks, just a heads up. Those of us who’ve lived for decades near this park, “our” neighborhood park, call it “Eleanor Park,” not “Pardee.” (e.g., see former neighbor Mayor Klein’s message) It’s an affectionate, though unofficial, moniker. Please let’s agree to call it “Eleanor” like it’s always been called. 🙂

  28. If they put in restrooms for the kids, don’t they also need to build a stand to sell little bags of Goldfish, in case they run out during visits to the park?

  29. Seems like each new generation has its group of young people who hang out at parks, and not exclusively Eleanor park. And I sure don’t think that toilets are what attract groups to the park. It is really uncivilized that Palo Alto has not placed toilets in our parks. Many a time I have had to abandon a work day at the community gardens or a play day and picnic at the park because my kids and now my grandkids had to go. And it is quite upsetting to see both young children alone and with adults and even adults sneaking behind bushes. I have even seen grown men belly-up to the bushes that are in rows in back of the houses bordering the park. For heavens sake, it’s time to recognize this need.

  30. Eleanor Pardee is the closest park to my home in Crescent Park. I go there frequently with my young son and with other friends with children. I would strongly favor toilets in the park, provided that they are well-maintained; perhaps the automatic cleaning toilets similar to the one at Waverley and Hamilton downtown.

    I currently find the lack of toilets to be a big inconvenience and, in fact, a deterrent to using the park (we often drive to Menlo Park instead of walking to Pardee). While this is the closest park to home, it’s not close enough to run home in the short warning period one gets from a young child that has to use the toilet. I realize that it’s intended to be a neighborhood park, but surely the neighborhood that it services is conceived as more than those houses immediately fronting the park, which are the only ones who really have the luxury of making it home for their children to use the bathroom. We can pack snacks, jackets, etc., but unless we want to stick with diapers forever, there’s no way to pack a potty.

    It’s laughable to believe that gangs in any way base their usage of the park on public toilet availability. They’ll graffiti gang signs, but won’t pee in public? Um, right…

  31. Strangely enough, in Europe a day’s outing with young children often means packing a potty. You can even buy the type which holds contents until safely home, tupperware style. And families will have no modesty about putting the potty beside the picnic table for the toddlers to use.

    But, I don’t expect that to be the norm here. Please can we have toilets in our parks – pretty please.

  32. I don’t think the problem is with the toilets per se. It’s with what may happen in the structure – safety issues, drug deals – yes, gang activity.
    Interesting idea to sell keys to the bathroom through the city for a nominal fee. I have never heard that idea before.

  33. Staff level approval is required for the installation of a restroom at Eleanor Pardee Park.

    According to the posted agenda for the October 16, 2008, meeting of the Architectural Review Board (ARB), staff approved the installation of a restroom at Eleanor Pardee Park on October 1, 2008.

    Palo Alto Municipal Code (PAMC) section 18.77.070(b) describes the procedures for a “Tentative Director’s Decision and Hearing Upon Request for Minor Projects”.

    The notice included in the ARB agenda about the restroom approval appears to be a notice that the Director of Planning and Community Environment proposed on October 1, 2008, to approve the restroom installation .

    PAMC section 18.77.070(b)(3) says, “The proposed director’s decsion shall become final 14 days after the date notice is mailed or published, whichever is later, unless a request for a hearing is filed.”

    PAMC section 18.7718.77.070(b)(4) says, “Any party, including the applicant, amy request a hearing by the architectural review board on the proposed director’s decision by filing a written request with the planning division. There shall be no fee required for requesting such a hearing.”

  34. Contrary to “Parents” comments above, I grew up in europe and never saw anyone carrying around potties. No one would think twice about a child peeing in a park. Urine is sterile and a few people peeing in nature is better than wasting water in toilets. Pre-school and kindergarten children in France are taken to city parks, playgrounds and nature areas regularly and they are expected (even praised) for being able to take care of their needs outdoors. It considered a necessary life skill. My two daughters (6 and 9) learned at an early age to pee outdoors and have no problem squatting at the park. We don’t have all these hang ups about bodily functions in europe and kids can just be kids. I think its a waste of money to put in a toilet in Eleanor Pardee Park. It just going to end up dirty, vandalized and used by the homeless.

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