https://paloaltoonline.com/square/print/2019/09/06/city-wants-20-of-apartment-tenants-to-drive-electric-cars


Town Square

City wants 20% of apartment tenants to drive electric cars

Original post made on Sep 6, 2019

In a city where about 15% of households already own or drive an electric vehicle, Palo Alto leaders are preparing to invest $9 million to get even more people to shift away from gas-powered cars.

Read the full story here Web Link posted Friday, September 6, 2019, 6:41 AM

Comments

62 people like this
Posted by Resident
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 6, 2019 at 7:36 am

This is not possible when most apartments being built are underparked by design. To live with an EV it is essential to be able to charge overnight at home. EV charging facilities, even public ones, have to have offstreet charging places. Some EV vehicles only have a limited range and have to be charged every night.

It is apparent that whoever brought this idea up has no idea of how EV ownership works in practice.


37 people like this
Posted by Anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 6, 2019 at 9:02 am

It is a great idea, but, the article describes how the city has boxed itself in by allowing and even encouraging underparked complexes.


48 people like this
Posted by Resident
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 6, 2019 at 9:25 am

The double standard here is ridiculous. The City actually wants people to use public transit to commute to work, yet it is calling for work places to have EV chargers available for employees. The City is encouraging housing with less parking spaces than residential needs in both single family residential areas (ADUs) and multi family residences with less than one space per unit.

Arithmetic tells me that this can't work in practice. Hilarious idea.


27 people like this
Posted by Anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 6, 2019 at 9:30 am

Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood

>> Arithmetic tells me that this can't work in practice. Hilarious idea.

Arithmetic? You think the left hand and the right of government can coordinate well enough to apply arithmetic to the process?


1 person likes this
Posted by This is great, thank you
a resident of Palo Verde
on Sep 6, 2019 at 10:35 am

This is great, thank you is a registered user.

I am very supportive of this. It makes EVs available to more people who want them.

A cost of $10,000 per charging port seems high though. How many cars does a port charge?

When space is limited in some of these locations, one option is overhead EV chargers.


28 people like this
Posted by What Will They Do Next
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Sep 6, 2019 at 3:18 pm

So let me see if I understand. The city wants to spend money to install charging stations in apartment complexes that are on private property not owned by the city in addition to some city owned land.

What's to stop an individual home owner from demanding similar treatment?


17 people like this
Posted by neighbor
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Sep 6, 2019 at 4:41 pm

If these apartment complexes are low-income housing, there is no way that those occupants can foot the cost of a new electric vehicle.


26 people like this
Posted by Neighbor
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 6, 2019 at 9:49 pm

What are they, dictators?
Think carefully, folks, about handfuls of politicians dictating stuff like this.
May not be for the best.


35 people like this
Posted by Downfall
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Sep 7, 2019 at 12:41 am

Though I have lived here for 30+ years Palo Alto is truly starting to disgust me with its misuse of public funds. The real gem from this article is that they want to install chargers for Palo Alto Housing Corp which is supposed to be providing below market housing for low income individuals. So do all these low income individuals need to charge their Teslas.

Also a huge NO to spending public funds for installing them at apartment complexes. These are privately owned so the owners need to foot the bill. If the owners will not install a charger that's just too bad for entitled renters who feel they need/want to have an electric car. Either find another apartment with a charger, save up for a house where you can install your own charger, or better yet if you really care about the environment don't bother with an electric car at all and start biking.


28 people like this
Posted by Don't Discriminate Against Gas Powered Cars
a resident of Community Center
on Sep 7, 2019 at 8:37 am

How about a conveniently located gas pump outside of selected apartment complexes?

Residents could be issued ID cards and a set time to refuel.


5 people like this
Posted by Anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 7, 2019 at 9:16 am

Posted by Downfall, a resident of Fairmeadow

>> Though I have lived here for 30+ years Palo Alto is truly starting to disgust me with its misuse of public funds. The real gem from this article is that they want to install chargers for Palo Alto Housing Corp which is supposed to be providing below market housing for low income individuals. So do all these low income individuals need to charge their Teslas.

In 30 seconds on the web I found a used 2015 Nissan Leaf S for $10K. How valuable a car are you willing to allow a low-income individual to own? I would have thought up to $10K would be OK.

Low income individuals are not going to be buying new Teslas. Obviously. But, electrics have been around long enough now that you can find good deals on used electrics.


8 people like this
Posted by What's a little more electricity?
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 7, 2019 at 12:57 pm

The whole state is going all-electric. Where is all this electricity gong to come from? We know where all the lithium for the batteries will come from, and what that process entails. How much more natural gas will be used to make the added electricity for everything? Will it be less than the amount of natural gas used in everyone's cooktops and heaters and dryers? Can we ask that government drop the "exemption" of their precious carbon credits, pretending that paying extra for the production of a certain type of energy somehow subtracts or alters it's consequence? The arithmetic comment cracked me up - we would think that the government we elect would use everything available to humankind to ensure that humanity thrives. When we know better, we should do better. Requiring the use of more and more electric vehicle batteries is not better. How far do we allow them to go in this quest for green? It's much more likely that the pushers of this madness see "green" as money, not the environment. So we clean up the air while we poison the crust. And what if it isn't the burning of fossil fuels? What if that isn't the issue? Then we could be doing something truly productive, like pyrolyzing plastic waste to make diesel and gas, which would clean up the surface of the planet and the oceans instead of poisoning them to get the lithium out. Duh. When we know better, we do better, right? Maybe not. Because if lithium mining and fracking are ok with us as a "progressive and enlightened" society, then perhaps we don't deserve to survive the millennia. Just remember that no matter what we do, the planet, itself, will be fine. Life on it will change, but it will go on peacefully spinning along, oblivious to the success or failure of its own creations. Here is where we see the human condition, unchanged through all of our progress.


19 people like this
Posted by Greetings From Stuttgart
a resident of Palo Verde
on Sep 7, 2019 at 1:10 pm

Cool people don't drive electric cars.

Tesla owners tend to be a bit arrogant & Prius drivers drive too slow & are overcautious...aka boring drivers.

I'll take my Carrera any day...gas or no gas.


9 people like this
Posted by “Low income” here
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 7, 2019 at 5:20 pm

I’ve been on the BMR waiting list for 6 years and have no hope of actually getting The Call. FWIW this “low income” household is pulling in 130k so I’m sorry I can’t rub elbows with you home owners but please don’t crap on renters in this city. Forget charging ports, I’d love for the city to routinely pick up all the furniture that gets dumped outside everytime a tenant leaves. Talk about pride of ownership


21 people like this
Posted by Hypocrisy works
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 8, 2019 at 2:58 pm

That's right, put a Band-aid on the results of excess population, but let the developers continue to build more and more offices. Pretend electric cars will solve the problem of over development.
Hypocrisy works, as long as the moneymakers get theirs.


15 people like this
Posted by Road Cone
a resident of Community Center
on Sep 8, 2019 at 9:08 pm

I am waiting for the city to announce its "new and improved" traffic circle initiative, just for electric cars of course. And only for apartment dwellers.


Like this comment
Posted by Anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2019 at 9:18 am

Posted by Greetings From Stuttgart, a resident of Palo Verde

>> Cool people don't drive electric cars.

Obviously not true. Elon did us all a favor by making Electric cars cool. Too cool and expensive for me.

>> Tesla owners tend to be a bit arrogant

"Compared to what?" Porsche owners?

>> Prius drivers drive too slow & are overcautious...aka boring drivers.

That is my goal. To be a boring driver.

>> I'll take my Carrera any day...gas or no gas.

In the future, all cars will be electric. Please be boring on city streets with pedestrians, bicycles, and parents with small children.

Web Link

Posted by “Low income” here, a resident of Midtown

>> this “low income” household [....] but please don’t crap on renters in this city. Forget charging ports,

Would you consider buying a good used electric car for < $10K for around town use, if your complex had convenient charging outlets?


8 people like this
Posted by Dan
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 9, 2019 at 11:25 am

Currently electric cars are toys for the well off. How many maids, gardeners, cooks, secretaries, teachers, etc. do you see driving Teslas, leafs, ... around town? You need to be able to fork over thousands of dollars more than you would pay for an internal combustion engine, have a dedicated charging space to charge at night (city mantra is that apartment complexes don't need parking spaces...), work relatively close to home, not need to carry significant loads in your car/truck, and ideally work for an employer who provides free charging at work + get a big tax incentive. If you have all of these things, then an electric vehicle will work fine for you. I am not convinced that a lot of renters in apartments have access to all of these.


22 people like this
Posted by Online Name
a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Sep 9, 2019 at 11:45 am

Gee, I'm so confused. For years we've heard from our elected officials that no one wants cars any more and hence developers *should* build car-light developments. Now they're asking US the taxpayer to pay $9,000,000 to support those cars? Of course they've also told us we don't have a traffic problem when we've got the 2d worse traffic in the country after LA. They spend zillions on traffic calming and studies to tell us traffic calming really really works when thousands of us sign petitions and complain.

What an absurd costly farce.


4 people like this
Posted by 1966 912 Online
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Sep 9, 2019 at 12:44 pm

> Elon did us all a favor by making Electric cars cool. Too cool and expensive for me.

^^^Teslas are not COOL...just overpriced battery-mobiles.

> That is my goal. To be a boring driver.

^^^ Then a Waymo might be your cup of tea!

> Compared to what?" Porsche owners?

^^^ Recent Porsche owners can be arrogant. No argument there.

Vintage Porsche owners are esoterically hip...big difference.

Let's call 1970 the cut-off point for Porsches!

Newbies tend to make cool things tacky...they don't know any better & are all for 'show'.


Like this comment
Posted by Anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 9, 2019 at 12:55 pm

Posted by Dan, a resident of Midtown

>> Currently electric cars are toys for the well off. How many maids, gardeners, cooks, secretaries, teachers, etc. do you see driving Teslas, leafs

Teslas, no. (Used) Leafs, yes. Note that in India/China, an electric version of the low-cost Kwid is underway. $9K. I'm sure it won't meet US safety standards, but, affordable electrics on are on the way. Does that bother you?


10 people like this
Posted by No Thank You
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Sep 9, 2019 at 12:58 pm

> Note that in India/China, an electric version of the low-cost Kwid is underway. $9K. I'm sure it won't meet US safety standards,

In addition, most Americans will not buy a car made in China or India.

Look what India did to Britsh Leyland...they ruined the Jaguar & the Range Rover.

China & India are not known automotive innovation or reliability.

Buy American or Japanese.


2 people like this
Posted by Dan
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 9, 2019 at 1:26 pm

affordable electric cars that have a range > 300 miles and can be refueled in < 10 minutes at plentiful charging stations (like gas stations) would be great... especially if they include cars & trucks with significant cargo capacity. Don't see this happening anytime soon.


2 people like this
Posted by Anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 10, 2019 at 7:14 am

Posted by No Thank You, a resident of Greenmeadow

>> In addition, most Americans will not buy a car made in China or India. Look what India did to Britsh Leyland...they ruined the Jaguar & the Range Rover.

I'm not promoting that particular model. I'm pointing out that new electric cars are becoming available across the price spectrum and won't be just high-end-only. Therefore, it makes sense for charging stations to be available for affordable and low-income housing.

Posted by Dan, a resident of Midtown

>> affordable electric cars that have a range > 300 miles and can be refueled in < 10 minutes at plentiful charging stations (like gas stations) would be great

Sorry, that won't be happening right away. Lower-tier electrics will mainly be for around-town use.


6 people like this
Posted by Shawn
a resident of College Terrace
on Sep 10, 2019 at 8:24 am

I live in a apartment complex of 15 tenants. 6 of them have Tesla's. 3 have electric BMW's. New times now people.


Like this comment
Posted by Anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 10, 2019 at 4:46 pm

Posted by Shawn, a resident of College Terrace

>> I live in a apartment complex of 15 tenants. 6 of them have Tesla's. 3 have electric BMW's. New times now people.

Interesting. Perhaps we need to recalibrate on how many of what kind of charging stations to expect.


Like this comment
Posted by Doug
a resident of another community
on Sep 14, 2019 at 10:35 am

At some point, perhaps in 20 years, this same phenomenon will happen in the self-driving car market. Web Link


Like this comment
Posted by musical
a resident of Palo Verde
on Sep 14, 2019 at 8:28 pm

^ Self-driving ambulances? Or just ambulance chasers?


Like this comment
Posted by Sean Ronan
a resident of another community
on Sep 17, 2019 at 8:19 am

EV is the wave coming to wash over everyone. Maverick Renewable Energy has a solution for Palo Alto. We would like to help with this RFP. Has it been created yet?

Sean
Mavericks Renewable Energy


2 people like this
Posted by Resident
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 17, 2019 at 8:22 am

And yet, there is no money to underground power lines or keep underground boxes. Something wrong here.

How can we have so many electric vehicles when our power supply is prone to outage due to seagulls, geese, squirrels, balloons, tree limbs, wind, rain, etc. etc. etc.