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Markets & Businesses - Require People to Wear Masks Indoors

Original post made by CrescentParkAnon., Crescent Park, on Mar 31, 2020

This graph says it clearly ....

Web Link

There are indications that the CoronaVirus can linger in the air for hours, and
in an enclosed place like a supermarket that is going to end up to be a
breeding ground for disease if we do not stop those particles from getting
in the air in the first place.

Markets and stores must require shoppers to wear masks to enter the store.
The countries with the lowest rates of infection are among the most densely
populated countries ... Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong.

WE MUST REQUIRE PEOPLE GOING IN STORES/INDOORS TO WEAR MASKS - IMMEDIATELY.
PLEASE, MAKE IT SO ASAP --- PALO ALTO CITY GOVERNMENT.


*** - I would love to include the visual of this map in this post, but I don't
see any way to do that.

Comments (14)

Like this comment
Posted by CrescentParkAnon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Apr 1, 2020 at 4:08 am

From the NYT: Web Link

HEADLINE - C.D.C. Weighs Advising Everyone to Wear a Mask by Abby Goodnough and Knvul Sheikh
March 31, 2020

Widespread use of nonmedical masks could reduce community transmission.
But recommending their broad use could also cause a run on the kind of masks
that health care workers desperately need.
...
--

Come on CA, so far we have been ahead of the curve even though we were among the first hit.
We cannot deprive health care workers, but can't we do something to get masks. Is there any
way we can manufacture or jury-rig something locally to trap coughs and sneezes to keep
indoor places such as supermarkets and stores less virus infected?

One idea out there is to make jury-rigged facemarks from paper towels. Here is a YouTube
video that shows how to do it: Web Link


3 people like this
Posted by CrescentParkAnon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Apr 1, 2020 at 2:08 pm

Having done some A/C work in IC Manufacture, and Computer Room design, there is an issue here people seem to be ignoring.

If sick people, possibly pre-symptomatic, or people who sneeze or cough, walk into, say, a grocery store to go shopping and put virus particles in the air inside the grocery store, those particles will diffuse throughout the air of the store.

If the air pressure is positive,as it most likely is in the store, that stale, possibly infected air would be blowing out the doors and contaminating whatever is in its path.

Standing near or walking through the doors of a grocery store could be a collecting place for anything in the store's air spreading it to many multiples of people.

Having people standing in or near the doorway to a market could be exposing them to air with virus particles in it.


5 people like this
Posted by resident
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Apr 1, 2020 at 3:48 pm

How are you going to require people to wear masks when the masks aren't easily available? The main reason that the government doesn't require masks is they want to reserve those for high-risk users like surgeons.


Like this comment
Posted by CrescentParkAnon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Apr 1, 2020 at 4:55 pm

Resident
> How are you going to require people to wear masks when the masks aren't easily available?

You? ... as in Me? I,am not. I cannot.

I am all for reserving resources for our health care professionals, and even clerks and delivery people and other public space workers. BUT, that does not obviate the need for masks. Did you look at the graphs? Masks clearly will have a great effect on this pandemic than ventilators. Masks are proactive, and a large percentage of people who are put on respirators do not make it. The reason I wrote this article was to point this out so maybe people think about it, talk about it and lobby for it. Of course Trump is not likely to do a damn thing.

The attention on ventilators would be better spent on masks.

What I can do is try to point out the need, and hopefully our levels of government or public effort can do something about that. You know that. So, what is your point, that we should do nothing or just go to sleep since we cannot find masks?


1 person likes this
Posted by Member
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Apr 1, 2020 at 8:09 pm

Here is a great vid showing mask build from HEPA filter bags.

Web Link


7 people like this
Posted by apples and oranges
a resident of College Terrace
on Apr 1, 2020 at 8:27 pm

Comparing the incidence of covid-19 in Asian and European countries which differ in many respects and then attributing differences to one aspect (use of masks) rather than any other difference (i.e. strict controls of social distancing) is not too convincing IMO.


Like this comment
Posted by CrescentParkAnon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Apr 1, 2020 at 9:58 pm

Apples, if you can't extract any information from that graph without looking for some way to dismiss what is right before your eyes, I feel sorry for you.

All those countries have population densities greater than ours and yet they have flattened the curve and are on the way towards managing their coronavirus problem.

Wearing masks is for the protection of other people is that what you have some problem with?

If infected people go into a supermarket without a mask and cough or sneeze, or just talk, they put virus particles in the air and those particles will diffuse into the air. Shopper's lungs or mucous membranes may intercept those particles, and if as in most building there is positive air pressure flow, those particles will move to the front door and be concentrated and flow by people standing by the front door or walking through it possibly infecting them as well.

I don't know if people should be required to wear masks just being outdoors as the CDC is considering ( if there were enough masks ) but people in indoor spaces should have to wear masks to prevent their breath, sneezes and coughs from infecting other, and as a reminder to them not to touch their faces.

Ideally markets should have someone at the door who requires shoppers to wear a mask.

Markets can also track the number of shoppers in their stores and not let the density get to high, letting a customer in when another customer checks out and leaves.

Checkout lines should be single-file roped off lines with 6-foot marks on the floor spacing out shoppers and keeping crowds away from the register and checkers. A single-file queue is also the most fair and efficient way to get people out of the store quickly and fairly.

Finally, grocery shopping should not be a family outing experience. If you must go shopping, go alone or with as few people as possible in order to reduce the spread of the virus. Keep others in the car and get in and get done quickly.

It just seems like some people like to base their identity on just being contrary and resisting or attacking anything new or based on science just for the pure delight of being like their idol.


Like this comment
Posted by CrescentParkAnon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Apr 2, 2020 at 6:24 am

The face mask debate rages on as cities, like L.A., take their own measures.
from New York Times: Web Link

Excerpt-

Among the many questions raised amid the coronavirus pandemic is whether healthy people should wear a mask when they’re outside.

While masks were a common sight across East Asia long before the coronavirus outbreak — worn for a variety of reasons — the official advice from both the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has been that only the sick or their caregivers should wear masks. But those guidelines may be shifting, and some local officials are moving to get in front of a rule change.

Mayor Eric Garcetti of Los Angeles urged residents on Wednesday to use face coverings when in public.

Sebastian Kurz, the Austrian chancellor, wrote on Twitter on Monday that masks would be handed out at supermarket entrances, and that it was mandatory for shoppers to wear them.

Covering the nose and mouth in public has been required in the Czech Republic since last month. The Czech prime minister, Andrej Babis, addressed President Trump on Twitter on Sunday, asking the American leader to follow the Czech example.

--

California and Palo Alto have always been ahead of America's curve, leaders in so many ways. Let's not fall behind and lose that reputation for intelligence, humanity and innovation. Behind Czechoslavakia ... never?


1 person likes this
Posted by Anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 3, 2020 at 11:34 am

Hong Kong, Japan, and Singapore seemed to have slacked off in their efforts. South Korea has stayed firm in being careful. And, look at the result: Web Link. 1% daily growth rate for about 25 days now. There are some large cultural differences. South Korea already believed in face masks, so, they had that momentum already. Americans don't like face masks and think of ways to rationalize not using them. In addition, South Korea has more bandwidth in the healthcare system at all levels. They have the capacity to do contact tracing also-- I'm not sure why, but, they have been able to do it. Much greater testing capability (why is this such a problem in the US???). Finally, they did get lucky that their normal school holiday was very timely and so didn't require the grinding pre-shutdown that the US has had.

But yes, facemasks do seem to be an important element of South Korea's unique success. From here on, let's try to learn as much as we can from South Korea. No other country this large and dense has been able to match their success.


3 people like this
Posted by CrescentParkAnon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Apr 3, 2020 at 11:44 am

Hi Anon, read the news from the CDC. It looks to me like the only reason we are all not under orders to wear face masks right now is the lack of availability and that they are being effectively rationed to health care workers. Being proactive by getting and requiring masks on people indoors will save a lot more people and health care workers than the low rate of people helped by ventilators.

Americans do not like to wear face masks ... well, I doubt anyone likes it. But they are effective at suppressing viral distribution into the air. It could just as well be that Americans are selfish and do not prioritize things to do for other people as opposed to think to do for themselves. Face masks are to keep your germs for getting into the air and affecting others.

Look at the responses here - most strong comments seem to resent the very idea just based on gut, without looking at the data. That is a big problem in our country.


1 person likes this
Posted by CrescentParkAnon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Apr 3, 2020 at 6:11 pm

If you think that for some reason the countries mentioned, South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan are somehow different than the United States you are right.

Taiwan .... enjoy: Web Link

Notice the total difference between the US response, still, and what Taiwan has done. Sad, isn't it?


2 people like this
Posted by Truth
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 4, 2020 at 12:44 am

Every time I have been to a store, I have not seen/heard people coughing or sneezing. And people are staying their 6 feet distance. Now, with the stores having tape on the floor, even more so. I read that if people wear face masks, it's difficult to remember to stay 6' away from others. I wore a face mask today and indeed, that is what occurs, it's easy to forget about social distancing when wearing a mask.

If an asymptomatic person is merely breathing 6 feet from someone, can a person become infected through the air? If this were the case, wouldn't more people be infected?


7 people like this
Posted by Mr.Recycle
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Apr 4, 2020 at 9:25 am

@truth "if people wear face masks, it's difficult to remember to stay 6' away from others"

Do you think masks constrict blood flow to the brain or something? Get real, people aren't staying 6' apart INSIDE stores, the aisles aren't wide enough to properly social distance. Masks are the best protection, and countries like Korea that aggressively test and wear masks are doing much better than we are. The aversion to mask wearing is pathetic and bordering on anti-vax status at this point.


Posted by Abe Lincoln once said....
a resident of Fairmeadow

on Apr 4, 2020 at 10:07 am

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