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We can be smart and slowly open the economy starting in a few weeks. Continue to protect those at high health risk through isolation of those people, but we can't sustain the current shutdown of "non-essential" businesses. How awful we consider any worker 'non-essential".
If we allow people to crowd Costcos and Safeways why can't we be smart and open other businesses with restrictions on how many people can be in the store at the same time for instance. We need to be smarter!!!!

We cannot safely reopen busy businesses until we massively ramp up virus testing so we can treat or quarantine infected people (whether or not they are showing any symptoms). Really a shame that this country is so far behind on testing. Until then businesses need to help their employees, then get paid back through the massive bailout that congress is pushing through.

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There are many people who are working in their workplaces at present. We appreciate all of them doing what they are doing and hope they can keep well and healthy as well as earn money to pay their bills and feed their family.

As a result of the added safety measures being put in place, there is no reason why we cannot allow some others to go back to work.

Small office workplaces where people work at their own desks are probably a lot safer than say a Costco worker or a food worker in a restaurant doing take out orders.

Many people are able to work at home but for many, a full home with children and all the noise means that say working at the kitchen table is not a good place for them to work, particularly if it is being shared by children attempting to do school work.

If this goes on too much longer, it would make a lot of sense to let small business offices where employees are well spaced in cubicles away from each other and the break room facilities are out of limit should be rethought.

@Resident
I think that only makes sense with widely available rapid personal test kits, which would allow us to safely restart travel even.

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We can't "re-open" without massive testing to provide the data to make safe moves, strategically. [Portion removed.]

Where are the tests for anyone who wants one?

Posted by Kohoutek 1973, a resident of Professorville

>> I’m very much looking forward to re-opening of parts of the country beginning on April 12th. It is possible to do two thing at once: 1) fight the virus; and, 2) get people back to work.

>> FWIW:

Please, do not be insulted. Your FWIW proves that you really, actually don't understand this. Please try really hard to understand. Try this and see if it helps you understand why your FWIW is completely off the mark: Web Link

@Anon,
Thanks for trying, but you're up against 50 years of false framing, gloriously made into a false idol to be worshipped by R Reagan (or was he the false idol, a case could be made for that as well).

You can't reach someone with facts if they don't fit the framing that has been cultivated for them. One of my elderly relatives in a red state was even airing grievances of things that wouldn't have happened if not for the coronavirus (presumably, hoax). Intelligent, caring person, who has been immersed in the framing for so long, it's impossible to reach them with the truth.

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hmmmm.....interesting comments.....but I don't think going back to work by Easter is a good idea

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My heart goes out to these hard working, vulnerable families. I hope they receive the financial assistance they need. Thank you for this article.

This is hard for all of us, but certain people are getting hit harder. My heart goes out to them.

I agree we can't safely open businesses or schools. Even though they need to be open.

I work at Legal Aid in San Mateo County. If your landlord is threatening to evict you and you live in San Mateo County - call Legal Aid at (650) 558-0915, (650) 517-8911 or Community Legal Services at (650) 326-6440, (650)422-2885.

This is illegal. Palo Alto Online - can you please publicize these numbers?

-Michelle

NYT outlines the inept and late responses by the Feds all along - it's the hollowed out and ill-prepared departments we depend on, courtesy of you-know-who.

"WASHINGTON — Of the 75 senior positions at the Department of Homeland Security, 20 are either vacant or filled by acting officials, including Chad F. Wolf, the acting secretary who recently was unable to tell a Senate committee how many respirators and protective face masks were available in the United States."


from:
"Job Vacancies and Inexperience Mar Federal Response to Coronavirus

Unfilled jobs and high turnover mean the government is ill equipped for a public health crisis, said many former and current federal officials and disaster experts."

Article not behind paywall. Web Link

see John's Hopkins CDC data at: Web Link

100,000 verified cases in the US. Most of any country in the world !
4.5% death rate world wide.
US death Rate 1.7%.
US increases at 20,000 cases per day now … and increasing see plot at lower LHS.
that's 340 more dead people per day! (at current growth).
Please don't spread the virus!
Its NOT ABOUT YOU.
Its about all those people you will spread it to, and all those who will die because of you.

One government downgraded Covid-19 from a "high consequence infectious disease". I only see the news outlets here trying to scare everyone, while we all collectively lose all our rights. I have never in my life seen such utter and complete medical dictatorship. Ever. No one has any rights anymore. We were shut down without much debate, without due process. And look at the economic mess it has caused. What about all the emotional, social, and family distress people are going through because of the shut down, does that not matter? 3.3 million people or more going through severe emotional distress over something such as Covid-19 that has caused fewer deaths than the flu. Driving a car kills 40,000 people alone a year but we don't say don't drive. There is a certain amount of risk we need to take to have a functioning civilization. This has reduced us to a banana republic....as all dictatorships do.
Web Link
Status of COVID-19
As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK.
The 4 nations public health HCID group made an interim recommendation in January 2020 to classify COVID-19 as an HCID. This was based on consideration of the UK HCID criteria about the virus and the disease with information available during the early stages of the outbreak. Now that more is known about COVID-19, the public health bodies in the UK have reviewed the most up to date information about COVID-19 against the UK HCID criteria. They have determined that several features have now changed; in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall), and there is now greater clinical awareness and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continues to increase.
The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) is also of the opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.
The need to have a national, coordinated response remains, but this is being met by the government’s COVID-19 response.
Cases of COVID-19 are no longer managed by HCID treatment centres only. All healthcare workers managing possible and confirmed cases should follow the updated national infection and prevention (IPC) guidance for COVID-19, which supersedes all previous IPC guidance for COVID-19. This guidance includes instructions about different personal protective equipment (PPE) ensembles that are appropriate for different clinical scenarios.

I would like to apologize to everyone for engaging in the “wrong-think” attitude of believing that the rabid hysteria is unjustified and that killing our economy is going to harm many more people in the long run.

I am truly sorry, Stay Well.

> As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK.

Nice.

As of 26 March 2020, Boris Johnson *HAS* Covid-19.

So, ueah, there's that.

You're acing like Dougie, who admits in his current rambling blog that he doesn't read mainstream news organizations, relies on youtube for news, and has already deleted posts highlighting his documented errors in his 'blog'.

@Resident: "Driving a car kills 40,000 people alone a year but we don't say don't drive"

Of course we do....
You have to be over 16
You must have a license
You must obey the speed limits and signs
You must wear a seat belt
You cannot drive impaired
We employ a highway patrol to catch and arrest offenders
etc. etc.
We tell millions of people they cant drive and arrest them if they do.

"Driving a car kills 40,000 people alone a year"

I love how people toss out numbers like that as if it makes the number acceptable. It is not. But just wait a couple of months and try to make that same comparison. Covid deaths will dwarf the auto accident death number - though I'm sure you'll find a larger one to compare to then.

BTW, How many people died as a result of the 9-11 attacks ?

How many people died in the Gulf of Tonkin. We went to war over that one.

Your sources are dubious.
It sure reads like you want people to spread the virus.

@ Kohoutek 1973 a resident of Professorville

Its poor form to like your own posts. It skews the statistics to make it look like people support the case you are making. An objective person allows the community to like or not their postings so that its value can be gaged sans manipulation. Kind of like the way Stanford Professors made us buy their text books for class. It artificially increased their "apparent sales" numbers. Not to mention that the whole class became their free proof reader.

If you are still working, check with your employer to see if they've got a matching donation program. A lot of the big employers around here do, and some have raised their match limits. Use that program to get a matched gift to Second Harvest of Silicon Valley or another local organization which will deliver direct aid to people who need it.

I don't quite understand why so many families have told their housekeepers not to come. With kids home from school and parents working remotely, the homes are likely to be even more in need of cleaning. And I would imagine that childcare providers would be in high demand by parents who need their kids productively occupied while the parents are working remotely. The longer shelter-in-place lasts, the more untenable it will be for families to try to do everything on their own.

to "don't get it".....how do you know who your housekeeper has been in contact with? No matter how much your like your housekeeper or child care provider, it is possible they have the virus and would pass it on to you and your family. I don't think I would want anyone coming into my house at this point.....just my family. I guess if you were lucky enough to have live-in help that would be different.

The point is that adults should be allowed to assess their own risks and make the decision themselves whether to go out, continue to provide a service to their community, and run their privately-owned businesses. In this case, the government has not allowed any adult to make any decision to assess whether they are willing to take on the risk to provide a service to society.

Just as Palo Alto elected leaders have closed the parks not allowing adults to make their own decisions whether to weight the risk getting Covid-19 versus their desire for outdoor exercise and recreation. Some people have different risk tolerances and there is no one size fits all tolerance for risk. Some people might have their own methods to handle disease and illness that does not include vaccines or fancy-glitzy drugs and are not afraid. However, in this case the government has not allowed adult to make any decision for themselves and categorically denied everyone the right of the freedom of movement and the freedom to peaceably assemble together.

If you want to read the first amendment literally this shut down has infringed on our Constitutional right to "peaceably assemble together", and it's just a very dangerous slippery slope here that the medical elite has taken us down.

I just want to people to really think about what you are allowing the government to get away with.

As Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

@don't get it - My understanding of the shelter in place is that housecleaners shouldn't come because they aren't essential. I'd love for ours to be able to come (because, wow, with three kids home all day the house does get messy!) but we are complying with the shelter in place order. Maybe over time they will change the provisions to allow for work done by individuals to continue.

> The point is that adults should be allowed to assess their own risks

Agreed.

- Adults should decide if we should stop or go, not have intrusive Stop Signs all over the place.
- Adults should decide if it's okay to cop a cig in an office or restaurant.
- Silly things that add costs to cars should not be required - seat belts, airbags, crumple zones, etc..

AND YES!!! Adults should be able to shout "THEATRE!!" in a crowded firehouse!



(we've got the perfect libertarian paradise for you @resident - try Somalia!)

@Resident : "The point is that adults should be allowed to assess their own risks and make the decision themselves whether to go out, continue to provide a service to their community, and run their privately-owned businesses. "

Yeah. My kids say that all the time.
They're "good drivers and shouldn't have to obey the speed limit".
They should be able to "go out with whoever they want, whenever they want".

The unfortunate truth is, Resident, that nobody really cares about YOU or your personal risk tolerance. What Society cares about is the risk that YOU pose to Society.

The fact that you think the rules should not apply to you, that you're comfortable going into crowded situations and increasing the number of people you get exposed to, makes YOU a risk to anybody else that comes near you. I would prefer a system that targeted people like you for confinement, so that the rest of us can do our minimal activities. Like the weekly trip to get necessary groceries, without encountering you in the isles after you've just got back from a hike with 1500 others at Arastradero and its parking lot.

Its simply not about you.
Its about Society.

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The people who attack me and my views must have a very comfortable financial cushion to have the luxury to homeschool, pay their rents, have the money to buy foods, have streaming Netflix and to restrict the freedom of movement of those who wish to work. Palo Alto is an affluent community, thus I am not surprised to find such willingness to restrict others.

There will be more than 3.3 million out of work for such authoritarian views. I hope you are all satisfied with your temporary safety for really the great loss of liberty.

I am find with people attacking my views as I believe in the freedom of speech.

Since my income has not gone down significantly during this outbreak (it has gone down some), I am still paying my housekeeper while she is staying at home and not coming to my house.
Don't people who have not lost income do this? To me it is the only decent thing to do.

Our cleaning lady called yesterday and told us she would be working from home. She said she would send us instructions on what to do.

"There will be more than 3.3 million out of work for such authoritarian views. I hope you are all satisfied with your temporary safety for really the great loss of liberty."

1) You do not have the right to kill me by way of knowingly/unknowingly transmitting the COVID-19 virus.
2) Grow up.

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@Resident : "The people who attack me and my views must have a very comfortable financial cushion to have the luxury to homeschool, pay their rents, have the money to buy foods, have streaming Netflix and to restrict the freedom of movement of those who wish to work. Palo Alto is an affluent community, thus I am not surprised to find such willingness to restrict others. "

Not necessarily true.
I am caring for my 85 year old mother with my family.
Wife has been furloughed, kids are at home, and I have some savings.

I am in great support of the Trillions of dollars the Federal government is pouring into the economy - particularly those dollars targeted to small business and directly to citizens. This is a tragic situation. I hope it ends soon. We all need to get back to work.

BUT your point was ...
1. ""The point is that adults should be allowed to assess their own risks and make the decision themselves "

and
2. "Driving a car kills 40,000 people alone a year but we don't say don't drive"


These were the points you made that I addressed.

Further You said: "As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK."

Was the purpose of this statement to encourage people to take the virus less seriously ?

You said : "The people who attack me"
I can only speak for myself. I attack your ideas that you put out in this public forum to influence the readers. I do not attack you as a person.
Social distancing and self quarantine are necessary to slow the spread as our Hospitals are overwhelmed and getting worse.
The economically vulnerable need to be protected. I support the Governments efforts to do that.
The math tells me that the only way wee get back to normalcy, is if we slow the spread, develop a vaccine (takes time) and develop sufficient herd immunity (takes time). Letting each and every individual be guided by their own personal risk tolerance is a path to social suicide.

Gavin Newsom said to expect 8 to twelve more weeks. So it's much too early to be talking about economics. Or so I've been reading. Defeating the virus is more important than people's hardships.

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Essential businesses that are still operating have daily cleaning staff, who typically wear personal protection (facial masks and gloves). Similarly, I don't have an issue with households continuing to have housekeepers, who also wear facial masks and gloves, continue to periodically keep their homes clean. The benefits seems to outweigh the risks IMO.

Resident- I think you are providing a useful point of view. Please don't back off. As I understand it you are not saying anything extreme or outlandish or promoting unusual priorities. You are just reflecting a different evaluation of risk and costs for the options we have. There are reasonable discussions to be had on this. I worry more about people who see this only in absolutes. My 2c.

The burden of social distancing and shelter in place is so uneven and falls much harder on some than others. I feel for the displaced workers and small businesses that bear the brunt of this effort. But we truly are saving lives by slowing the spread of the virus, though we should be mindful of those paying the costs. I hope they receive the help and support that is needed and we can find safe ways to preserve people's businesses and jobs.

Hopefully, this situation will affect spending habits. Americans spend way too much on materialism and private colleges that they cannot afford. It’s simple calculations that people learn in elementary school but people ignore it.

There are many who can’t afford to live in Palo Alto. How can you know? If you are housepoor and not saving money each month plus have leftover for spending money. There are many in this situation. You need to save for retirement because one day, you’ll be too old to work or have health issues that prevent you from working. No one knows what the future will bring; plan ahead, the government won’t bail you out!

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Perspective: We started shelter in place weeks BEFORE New York, our curve of cases is nothing like theirs. We have 7 .7 million people in the 9 Bay Area counties having to stay home...with only 1550 cases and 37 deaths. By this time last year we had more deaths from the flu....and we had a vaccine for that. Being forced to stay in our homes is overkill and MORE detrimental to families in my opinion. We have all accepted the risk of catching it each time we go to Costco or the pharmacy, yet we can’t go to the beach with fresh open air...this is crazy:(

I am working from home and have the option of taking paid time off. I have furloughed our in-home childcare provider with pay. Why don't others in my situation do the same? Please, if you have the means, continue to pay you house keepers, childcare providers, and other domestic workers. They do so much for our families, it's the right thing to do.

Not allowing gardeners to work is beyond ridiculous and unfair to those hard working people. If the cities are allowing restaurants to remain open for take out and delivery, then surely gardeners can be allowed to work., too. The workers at the restaurants are stuck in a small, hot, enclosed space while gardeners are outdoors and rarely come into contact with others. It makes NO sense to deny them that income. While some people are offering to pay them even though they are not coming, many are not and many of them will not be eligible for unemployment. The cities need to rectify this and ALLOW gardeners to contribute to work.

wow....just reading the comments on here is somewhat amazing....again, I live far away, on the east coast (tho went to college near you guys). Many of the comments are about housekeepers, child care help, and now gardeners. You folks live in a very privileged/wealthy community and I think you don't appreciate the situation that many folks around the country are dealing with....most folks don't have a housekeeper, or an in-home child care provider....or a gardener! Heaven forbid, what if you lived in a high rise apartment bldg with 2 kids, no yard and can't go to work. Just a bit of perspective.

Posted by dontliveinCA, a resident of another community

>> Heaven forbid, what if you lived in a high rise apartment bldg with 2 kids, no yard and can't go to work.

Many multi-family residential and commercial buildings have landscaping and cleaning contractors. I see no reason why someone shouldn't be mowing, pruning, powerwashing, etc., and, continuing to make a living outdoors.

The purpose of these "lockdowns" is to reduce virus transmission, not punish people. People who have jobs that don't require being in contact with other people (including sharing the air in confined spaces) should continue working.

If you are in a high-rise, I worry about your elevator rides to get in and out, not your walk in the park away from other people, or, your working outside, if you are lucky enough to have a job outdoors.

Brit,

You are unclear on the concept.

You should be thankful that this area was the first in the country to adopt strict rules.

Because of limited testing, the data do not and cannot show that the peak has been reached.

This is no time to ease up, and let some people put themselves ahead of the common good.

Chris I am very clear on the concept of forced shelter in place by our government as I have been living it everyday. I was told this was temporary to let the hospitals get ready. I gladly participated in this forced lock down of 7.7 million of us in the Bay Area, while we do massive testing. There are numerous drive through testing sites. That is why our total numbers are going up but the death rate is staying the same. 38 people out of 7.7 million. Sad, but lower than past outbreaks of flu SARS and H1N1. My opinion is it is overreach to tell 7.7 million of us it’s fine to go to the store where we risk catching this virus, but they close parks where we can social distance easily. It’s ridiculous to tell a gardener they can’t work, yet the food delivery guy can cough all over our food and spread this virus. This shelter in place is unsustainable in my humble opinion, and we should allow those who would like to go back to work with social distancing measures in place with the option to do so. The most high risk seniors are mostly retired and on a fixed gov income anyways and can stay sheltered in place for their protection. Plus most seniors depend on us to work and keep their interest income coming from businesses and jobs. A majority of us working class will get this virus anyways and have few mild symptoms or none. Herd immunity None of this will change next month or next year as this virus will keep coming back. We need a better solution for society than stay in your home.

On the Peninsula, there's a multitude of powerful, wealthy families.
My message to those of you from well-off families, please find a place in your hearts to donate to families like Francisca and Lucero to help them survive.

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It would be great to see all the realtors come together to help out. After all, they’re in the business of selling houses.

It seems like the newspaper these days are full of houses to sell than there is of any news!

@Vanessa: "Powerful, wealthy families" ARE donating to causes. And they pay high taxes which the government uses to help the needy. Quit trying to pull the sympathy card, the Top 1% cannot save all the homeless and poor in the nation. Try writing to the billionaires (who are also donating their money).

At the same time, there are Americans who are too lazy to work, they made their own bed. When I was younger, I held 2-3 jobs so I could save money. Why are so many seniors on government support? They didn't save up in their younger years and spent frivolously. Those of you who are eating out for lunch every day, buying the new season's fashions, buying Starbuck's each day, spending huge amounts on entertainment, watch out, you'll have no money in your senior years. None of the spending which I just stated needs to occur, it can at least be curbed. Think before you buy, "Do I really NEED this? Can I use it for years?" Hopefully, people learn from this situation on curbing their spending!

In addition, those who think that giving their children weekly allowances for doing chores is a positive thing, that's incorrect! It only serves to teach them to think about how to spend their money. "You made the money, spend it as you wish. What are you going to buy? Save up so you can spend it all on that . . ." My children learned good spending habits from hearing how my husband and I spend money, such as, "Bring your own water bottle instead of buying it" etcetera.

> ...of 7.7 million of us in the Bay Area, while we do massive testing.

Define "massive".

Would that be 25%? 15% 50% ?

'cuz I got bad news for you - the testing thus far borders on "inconsequential."

This is going too far. A relative of mina was so stressed out that she has ended in a hospital due to her worry of not being able to work. Her mental health down started with the shelter in place. She has never been a burden to the USA as she has always work as a house keeper or babysitting. To make things worst no one can visit, when it is proofed that admitted patients recover faster when they are visited by their families. Even if she would receive 1,000 dollars from Donald Trump, that will not even cover her rent. I feel bad for the people with cannot survive without an income especially those who are undocumented, but they are also human and need shelter and food to survive this difficult situation. I know this last sentence will anger some people who are against undocumented residents, but no one could understand this situation unless it has been there.

I know this might be off topic but I just want to say how angry I am at PAUSD forcing all students to have pass/fail grades. As a junior who had straight As the first quarter, I feel like all of my hard work has gone to waste and my grades will seem inferior to other applicants do my second semester grades not contributing to my GPA. I wish that Pass/Fail grading would be optional and that students could choose to receive grades. Also, many of my peers are becoming unmotivated because of the pass/fail system, and many are taking it as an opportunity to not learn and watch TV all day.

Hi Paly student, welcome to communism. It starts just like this....

Babbs, it's socialism, which is what the Millennials and post Millennials want. Socialism fails because everyone gets lazy when there is no prize for working harder, why work harder and be paid the same? Many colleges are preaching far left-wing socialist ideas.

A recent comparison of the total number of covid-19 cases and deaths in the Bay Area, particularly Santa Clara County (which instituted shelter-in-place early) and either NYC or LA suggests that Santa Clara County's sheltering-in-place IS working to flatten the curve: Web Link

We told our housekeeper that she should stay home. We also mailed her a check to cover those services-not-rendered. We'll continue to support her until this shelter-in-place requirement is over.

@Paly Student: It will be OK. I never did homework, which contributed to my straight "B" average. I went to a college with written evaluations and no letter grades. What you are studying for today is not a contest for today's grades, it is to build a foundation of knowledge that will serve you for life. I can guarantee that, in the long run, no one will care what you did in High School. If you have a good study ethic today, as your "A"'s indicate, you will be OK.

@Paly Student: Relax! You should know that Stanford (and I assume pretty much everybody else) is only using Pass/Fail this coming quarter and that they (and I assume pretty much everybody else) are cognizant that Spring 2021 will not be business as usual and so will evaluate applications accordingly. The reason for going to Pass/Fail is because there are enormous variations in access to online resources and in the abilities of folks to learn using online approaches. The result is that a student's performance this spring may not be reflective of their abilities.

Paly Student.

I think you are lucky, living in a time such as this. You have the opportunity to learn so much more than your counterparts did even this time a year ago. You have time to be amazed by what interests you in the world and not by being locked into what you are told to study.

I wrote a comment on Jessica Zang's blog in the blog section. This generation is going to be defined by this pandemic and how they grow from it, much the same as those who were your age during WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, 9/11. All of those were times of war which divided the world. Now the world is united against a common enemy which can't be seen and is not human in nature. Now is the time for your generation to shine, to learn how to overcome, to be united, by your young age, to grow in a maturity level that those a few years ago have still not yet attained.

Education is not about As or Bs, or where you go for tertiary formal education. Read education is growing within yourself from all the things you encounter and learning how to deal with them.

The winners from this will not be those who go to the Ivy League colleges. The winners from this will be the ones who have helped others, who have found new ways of doing things, of learning how to overcome when the odds were stacked against them, who have learned compassion and empathy, have understood that privilege is much more about whether you have a bed to sleep in or food in your refrigerator or even the opportunity for a daily shower and clean clothes to wear.

Remember some of the people who have made huge differences in the world never graduated college. Microsoft and Facebook were both founded by college drop outs. Apple was started by a couple of teens in a garage.

Use this time to change the world, by being different, not by following the accepted path. The accepted path may still work out for you, but just in case it doesn't, the world is still your oyster. Use it wisely.

>> Driving a car kills 40,000 people alone a year but we don't say don't drive.

Oh my God ... please ... getting in an auto accident doesn't cause all involved to go out driving and hit 4 more people.

This country cannot suffer the scientifically and mathematically obtuse ... it is killing us except for the fact that a lot of people who do understand are dedicated solely to exploitation and profiting off it, not to mention keeping others insensitive and fearful.

This year ought to be dedicated to all those who are working to keep a barebones economy and services running, and maybe we can learn to respect workers and pay them their due when we evolve a new normal that can take something like this in course.


** - While it does not specifically address pandemic contagion there is a video on YouTube called "The Most Important Video You'' Ever See" by Professor Al Bartlett that talks about the exponential functions work and how it is not intuitive for humans to think this way, causing a lot of problems. Search for it and watch it ... that is ... if you have time? ;-)

> Socialism fails because everyone gets lazy when there is no prize for working harder

As opposed to the US where only the rich are lazy and expect everyone else to work twice as hard and get paid half as much to make up for it?

Oh how the right wing mantras always do appear to try to shut off people's critical thinking. All those countries Bernie Sanders always talks about that have Universal Health Care ( i.e. every other developed country in the world ) do not work any less than Americans, but in general they are valued by their nations and get something back other than exploitation as thanks for their work.

There is a reason so many foreigner come to the USA to work and live and it is because we exploit our working people and run them into the ground to pay the people who come here for money more. Instead of coming here to join in the American dream, most come just for cash. That's been a big driver of the inequality we see turning the USA backwards into one of those underdeveloped countries that does not invest in its people. They US can do this precisely because all those other countries do not. If all the other countries treated their people like America does we'd end up moire like Brazil.

There is a string parallel between China's exploitation of its workers for national economic benefit and what the US does, but China seems to at least someway be giving something back to its people considering their standard of living is going up a lot faster than ours. We should feel more than a little shame when we consider the reality of the USA compared to its claims. China a country with about 4 times the population of the US got its corona virus epidemic under control and has less cases than the US now. China is not even socialistic in the classic sense ... no country really is, but it never keeps right-wingers from calling any country with problems or inept government socialist.

The history of all previous societies has been the history of class struggles.

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@ Cresentparkannon, Please stop with the glorification of socialism and communism. It doesn’t work. Just look at the fact that China finally opened up Wuhan yesterday and there were massive riots and turning over cars and complete chaos.

Resident of another community-

Your words are wonderful and I have sent them to my son. You nailed it. I like the way you understand the world. But this clear view is rare.

Who are you?

@Jan, It doesn't help your position that these "riots" are being promoted mainly in right-wing rags. We already have "Socialism" in this country. Care for the poor, care for the elderly, workers comp, WIC. It goes on and on. Shouting "Socialism, or "Communism" simply derails valid debates that point out how the US is failing its citizens and how it might improve. I would be impressed if you could correctly define either Socialism, or Communism, without first looking them up.

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> We already have "Socialism" in this country.

Particularly Corporate Socialism, where they privatize profits and socialize the losses.

Look at the airlines - they took Trump's trillions in corporate tax cuts, did stock buybacks just to increase their stock price, and BAM - here comes the Trump Bear Market and wipes out the stock price.

Net gain? Zero. Except they added a coupe trillion in deficits and debt FOR NOTHING. Look what it did for skyrocketing CEO pay.

Now - the airlines (and all corps) want bailouts after spending billions on stock buybacks. Oligarchs that SOCIALIZE their losses.

We need a plan to support families during the next 6 months of various levels of sheltering in place. Look at Britain, Denmark, etc.. Families and economy first, not oligarchs and CEO's.

Take a look at the COVID dashboard for Santa Clara County. Fingers crossed, but it looks like we are starting to flatten the curve. (You have to scroll down a little to see the dashboard. Check out the drop in new cases over the last two days.) Web Link

I understand you’re talking specifically about Santa Clara, however the projections at this site

Web Link

Say California won’t peak till April 29. So given to prominent role the Bay Area plays in case counts, I suspect we won’t see the curve in Santa Clara peak here till California does.

> @ Cresentparkannon, Please stop with the glorification of socialism and communism.

Oh, is that what that looked like to you? Probably not really, since nowhere did I mention communism and quite clearly said no country is socialist, classically, where the government owns the means of production. It is a meaningless word except when the Right wants to use it as a weapon.

It is such a wonderful device of the Ring-wing to just be able to use those two words and evade any real facts or arguments, particularly when we see again and again how the socialism in the USA only until this last real coronavirus disaster extended only to the very rich and powerful and their corporations. At least this time some working people will get something from the government. I was responding to the fallacious argument that "no one works hard under socialism", and whatever was meant by that. It is crystal clear that the people who make that argument are always the ones who have others doing their work for them.

As I've said before you cannot have socialism without democracy or it's not social it's authoritarianism. Ultimately, where there is a crisis, the government and the people must come first, and our LACK of "socialism", or what I would call FDR Democracy, has led to the country lying to itself and being weaker and less prepared to handle problems that affect everyone.

Capitalism is always the substrate of trade and barter.
Socialism is Capitalism with democracy.
Fascism is Capitalism without democracy.

Call the Fire Department socialism, then whatever we need to collectively fight to make sure we never have another pandemic like this would be socialism as well. I want to glorify the aspects of America that protect everyone, if you call that socialism, so be it.

Flattening the curve is working,
the NYT graphics Web Link of the coronavirus outbreak appear as if the curve is linear and not quite breaking to exponential. Since about 2 weeks ago we have added about 5,000 new cases every day nationally.

But look at the growth of cases in dense urban areas and we get a different, more exponential story. If we end the coronavirus measures early that is likely to break out into a chain reaction. I am definitely for keeping the lid on things until we have the resources to test everyone multiple times and a plan to do that in a rational controlled way. It is also important to have an antibody test to know who has had and gotten over COVID-19.

As to what the phrase "flattening the curve is working", that is not accurate because the purpose of flattening the curve is to avoid overloading our health care system, doctors, nurses, our ability to respond to all sick people and the resources and logistics to support that. We are not there. Where we are is the greatest country on the fact of the Earth wiping egg off its face and hopefully thinking about next time.

WOW, CrescentParkAnon. .... 72 likes .... for socialism , in half and hour ?? Hey, that is hardly believable. I like it ... but just want to say it was not me. I mean ... it should be, but now in the world as it is now. ;-)

Posted by CrescentParkAnon., a resident of Crescent Park

>> WOW, CrescentParkAnon. .... 72 likes .... for socialism , in half and hour ?? Hey, that is hardly believable. I like it ... but just want to say it was not me. I mean ... it should be, but now in the world as it is now. ;-)

I didn't do it. But, I've had these debates with people before about the word "socialism". Lots of older people remember when pro-Communists often liked to soften their image by saying they were "socialists", which pretty much poisoned the word. What the non-Communist "socialists" really were supporting was what is referred to as "Social Democracy", which has a solid history in Europe.

Web Link

People in the U.S. like to ignore the fact that, for example, the U.S. is almost completely socialistic when it comes to city streets, roads, and highways. Which brings me back to the topic at hand: public health and Covid-19. People accept socialism for streets because the purely capitalistic alternative is completely unworkable. People who visited socialist countries back when they existed know that socialism is really inefficient when it comes to producing day-to-day consumer goods that people want. Virtually all economies are, in actuality, mixed economies.

Healthcare, in general, is a big challenge to both capitalistic and socialistic solutions. The capitalistic approach that dominates US healthcare serves the working poor badly, and, is very expensive for everyone. But, it does pretty well for the upper middle class and the wealthy, and, those wealthy "consumers" drive, and fund, a lot of medical technology innovation that the entire world benefits from. The socialistic approach used in most countries does a better job at delivering average, life-extending "just OK" care for the working poor, but, it has kind of a technology "ceiling" and doesn't support much technological innovation.

==>> Both approaches have had major flaws when it comes to responding to the current Coronavirus pandemic. I really hope that great minds think this whole thing through and come up with an affordable, workable system that can respond better to the next pandemic.

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Sweden has quarantined their high risk group, and everbody else went back to work.

> Sweden has quarantined their high risk group, and everbody else went back to work.

Sweden had Leadership that took command - had ample TESTING and procedures.

We lacked all that. We still do.

@ Resident “ Sweden has quarantined their high risk group, and everbody else went back to work “

So you want to quarantine everybody between the ages of 20 and 50, correct ? That will capture the majority (over 52%) of the Covid cases.
Or perhaps just Men of any age. They’re 53% of the cases.


From PAOL updates last week

“Of the 574 people with COVID-19, 53%, or a little over 300, are male and 46%, roughly 264, are female. A majority of the cases are people between 41 and 50 years old, which made up 21% of the total. Here's a full breakdown by age group:

• 20 years old or under: 3.5%.

• 21 to 30 years old: 9.9%.

• 31 to 40 years old: 17.8%.

• 41 to 50 years old: 21.4%.

• 51 to 60 years old: 19%.

• 61 to 70 years old: 12.4%.

• 71 to 80 years old: 9.2%.

• 81 to 90 years old: 4.4%.

• 91 years old or over: 1.2.%.

• Unknown: 1.6%
“

@Old Joe - it's true that the 20-50 range as the largest percentage of those infected with COVID-19, but it's still the older age groups that are more likely to die because of it. Not advocating for Sweden's approach right now, but if it looks like this is going to be a 6 month+ situation, at some point we need to weigh the severe economic harm (especially to those near the poverty line or those who are going to be there if we continue this way). An approach where those who are most at risk of death stay home but others don't may make sense at some point if the harm from pushing people into poverty is too high. Sad decisions to have to make for sure...

'those who are most at risk of death stay home"

I'm not sure "stay home" is enough. I think if we take that approach, we may need to provide facilities to sequester the at-risk people, so they don't come into contact with the others who are infected but very symptomatic.

> (especially to those near the poverty line or those who are going to be there if we continue this way)

Hold on a minute - in good economic times a couple years ago, we gave away trillions o corporations and billionaires in tax cuts that did nothing to stimulate the economy (see 10 year quarterly GDP charts for proof.)

Now when we are talking about opening the economy up (and swamping hospitals with cases) you don't think we should instead do what Germany, Britain, etc.. are doing and supporting working class Americans hit by this virus and the absurdly poor Trump Pandemic Response?

Why do we always have money for corporations and billionaires, but gosh, can't seem to find it in our hearts to help the least among us?

Last: your and Old Joe's comments depend on AMPLE testing, something our leadership has failed to provide compared to Sweden and other advanced countries. Until our leadership (Trump/Pence, the self-anointed "wartime" leaders) get off their behinds and start leading and providing the tests they promised a month ago, none of these suggestions have merit.

@ S_mom : “ it's true that the 20-50 range as the largest percentage of those infected with COVID-19, but it's still the older age groups that are more likely to die “

You miss the point of all this.
Of the people getting sick, 25% are hospitalized. It is the overwhelm of the hospitals that we are trying to address. Have you thought about what you’ll do when you get hurt in an auto accident on your way to work and the hospitals are overflowing with sick patients ? You won’t get treatment because of all the sick COVID patients (and sick doctors and sick nurses). This isn’t about some 80 year old who might die, this is about 1.000.000 sick people all at the same time, and 250,000 of them hospitalized all at the same time. And the 25,000 of whom will die - most of which will be over 60 but a lot will be under 40 too. Good luck to us all over the next month. It’s going to get really bad. And I hope you don’t need to be rushed to the hospital for anything during me next few months.

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Old Joe: You miss the point of all this.

Old Joe gets it - do not stretch out the economic pain into a long term depression by trying to come back too soon. History showed us what happens - see St Louis and their terrible decision during the Spanish Flu.

Look at what Birx said over the weekend: 100,00 - 200,000 dead?

"Birx: U.S. will see 100,000 to 200,000 coronavirus deaths if citizens act "almost perfectly" Web Link

Try and cut The Trump Bear Market short, and risk a much worse pandemic calamity, which further drives the economy down.


I say, nay, ignore those willing to sacrifice health for a short term, and certainly doomed, attempt to revive the economy.

Posted by Resident, a resident of Barron Park

>> Sweden has quarantined their high risk group, and everbody else went back to work.

According to the site from the other thread Web Link Sweden has done better than many countries, but, still is about on the "double every week" slope. Some countries have done much better at flattening the growth rate, eg. Japan, South Korea, China.

California is not doing as well as I had hoped it would.

@ Trump fired: Please stop politicizing everything. This is a crisis. There is no need to post excessively on the basis of your sociopolitical opinions.

This is not the time for division. It is the time to draw together -- despite our particular sociopolitical leanings. Let's focus on solutions instead of engaging in endless one-sided political diatribes.

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I’m with Nayeli. Give it a rest. You’re not helping. I agree our state and national leadership totally failed to meet their responsibilities. And most of us can see that.

But to twist every point or discussion to politics is very harmful, because discussions in our current circumstance are difficult already. What we are facing is difficult to face.

We told our housekeeper to stay home too, but we're not sending her a check. She lives with us, and her name is Jennifer. She's happily married to the homeowner.

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Actually, now is the perfect time to analyze how the Federal Government has failed us in a time of pandemic. This is no "Provide equal time to competing sides of the discussion" debate, this is a time for outrage. If you are not outraged at how Nero is fiddling as the US burns you are part of the problem. We MUST notice, track, and hold accountable the behaviors of our elected officials and take steps during the next election to make sure they are not allowed to hold positions of responsibility ever again.

This is very much a political issue, and the solution is going to be political.

But there are productive ways to discuss it, but I don't see why discussing
problems of either party should be off-limits.

As our leader maybe Trump does do the right thing ... eventually, and though
we all want to stay as positive as possible in what are truly dark days, why
isn't it appropriate to point out the confusion, discord, damage and anxiety
Trump causes by being penny-wise and pound foolish for one, and randomly
changing his mind and threatening to do things that might cause major damage,
instead of steadying the helm with firm "scientific" advisement?

I don't know if when this passes all will be forgotten or not, and I can be equally
critical and dispassionate about either side politically, but the failures are not
the same and they are not equal. Politically we have a big problem that must
be faced. Traditionally these issues are tackled in Town Squares throughout
the country. Why not here?

For one, Trump's "personality" is a major negative and it should be called
out if only to level the playing field for the election since his daily "briefings"
are mostly media funded campaign events. One of the high costs of
sheltering in place is seeing what is happening at the national level and
feeling important to do anything about it.

This graph says it loudly and clearly ....

Web Link

WE MUST REQUIRE PEOPLE GOING OUTSIDE TO WEAR MASKS - IMMEDIATELY.

The countries with the lowest rates of infection are among the most densely
populated countries ... Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong.

MAKE IT SO ASAP --- PALO ALTO CITY GOVERNMENT.

Markets and stores must require shoppers to wear masks to enter the store.
There are indications that the CoronaVirus can linger in the air for hours, and
in an enclosed place like a supermarket that is going to end up to be a
breeding ground for disease if we do not stop those particles from getting
in the air in the first place.

Socialism does not work? It certainly does for corporations like the airlines, who receive trillions in tax breaks so they can buy back their shares and increase their value, then they get a couple more trillions in printed money, that we, not them would have to pay back, in order to bail them out.

Just like 9/11, the 2008 financial collapse and COVID19 have proved, again, is that capitalism collapses each time there is a major crisis and needs socialism to resuscitate it. The only problem is that in the USA, socialism exists only for large corporations and billionaires who absolutely love it. When it comes to all others, when outrageous ideas such as universal healthcare are discussed, the beneficiaries of socialism go apoplectic screaming about socialism and communism being forced on us.

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@"non-essential" human being

Thank You, someone for "another Community", for stopping by to show your concern for OUR community.

25% of the people who get sick are hospitalized.
2.5% in the US who get sick will die.
The surge of sick people will require more hospital beds and ICUs than our nation currently has.

When you have your stroke, appendicitis, car accident, fall from a roof, concussion or whatever, triage will not admit you. Perhaps you can use your whits to heal thyself.

>>"The people who attack me and my views must have a very comfortable financial cushion to have the luxury to homeschool, pay their rents, have the money to buy foods, have streaming Netflix"

Homeschooling the way people would want if they had equivalent funding to brick and mortar schools is a luxury, but most people who homeschool don't have that.

We don't have money for luxuries like housekeepers, childcare, help with the weeds/yard, going out to dinner, and we homeschooled, it's not a luxury.

We didn't choose homeschooling (to start), if the district hadn't been so aggressively evil to our family, we would have kept trying to make it work, but homeschooling is not a luxury.

I know a single, unemployed veteran parent who has been homeschooling two kids who are performing at a college level in middle school. They dealt with homelessness by becoming reliable high-end housesitters, etc. I know a family who homeschooled by mostly just taking the kids to the public library, specifically to save money -- the kids went on to Ivies and grad school. Sure, it would have been a LOT better with resources, but for those people's kids, the autonomy was more important to their kids' development and education than the money. Many homeschoolers let each other know when the libraries were going to close so they could stock up on books.

The Bay Area has numerous independent study programs and homeschool programs where you can get funds to pay for vetted educational partners. In exchange for funding, people have oversight by an experienced education specialist throughout the school year, and students take standardized tests. So again, no excuses about homeschooling being a luxury. Such a program would allow you to "ala carte" school your kids while you are working -- I know couples who work full time and homeschool just fine. (Actual homeschooling isn't school at home, just FYI. The lockdown has been just as hard on homeschoolers. The difference is that they typically do have well-developed online communities and educational resources.)

Again, homeschooling is not a luxury. If we supported independent education as well as we did everything else, our school districts would be light years ahead in coping with this crisis, or pivoting to make it something even more valuable to the kids.

Thank you for writing a piece around the impact of COVID-19 in low-income communities.  My name is Miriam Yupanqui, the Executive Director of Nuestra Casa and I would like to clarify a misinterpretation presented in this article. Nuestra Casa has not reduced any hours to our part-time employees.  On the contrary, our part-time Food Distribution staff members who are in the frontline are busier than ever and are now working more hours.
I would appreciate it if the Palo Alto Online team would make this correction on the article.  I would be happy to provide more detailed information if necessary. 

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thanks for writing this piece. It motivated me to donate my stimulus check for those less fortunate than me. It just would not have felt right for me to keep the money. After all, I still get paid and can also continue to work, at least part time.