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Delivery trucks at Edgewood create ruckus for neighbors

Original post made on Sep 22, 2017

The beeping of trucks as they back up at 4 a.m., the clanking of metal cargo ramps on pavement, delivery trucks parking in bike lanes and forcing kids on bikes to scoot around them and into traffic — these are some of the complaints voiced by Duveneck/St. Francis residents who live near Edgewood Plaza Shopping Center, located at 2170 West Bayshore Road.

Read the full story here Web Link posted Friday, September 22, 2017, 12:00 AM

Comments (38)

Posted by anon
a resident of Evergreen Park
on Sep 22, 2017 at 8:52 am

Thanks to the attention of Concil member Kou and weekly reporter Dremman and of course the neighbors we might see some resolution of the myriad of violations at the Edgewood plaza.
It is troubling that the city is so inept in enforcing their own laws resulting in repeat offenses at this site over and over again.
Sandhill apoears to think they are above the law. The City Council should think twice the next time sandhill asks to develop a site in Palo Alto

Of course the main problem at Edgewood cannot be easily remedied; the council gave away part of the parking lot to create wealth for Sandhill by allowing them to build 10 3million dollar condos in the much needed parking spots.
Shows a failure leadership.
Thanks again to Kou and Dremman

Posted by parent
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 22, 2017 at 1:19 pm

If you see a motor vehicle parked in a bike lane or blocking your driveway, then call the police. This is an immediate safety hazard that should be enforced immediately. If calling 311 does not quickly resolve the safety hazard, then call 911.

Posted by john_alderman
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 22, 2017 at 2:57 pm

john_alderman is a registered user.

Please don't call 911 to report a parked car - it is grotesquely self centered behavior.

Posted by Edgewood Neighbor
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Sep 22, 2017 at 7:41 pm

Yes, many thanks to Lydia Kou, the only council member who seems to care about the shopping center's neighbors and also thanks to Sue Dremmen for her reporting. If code enforcement and the police have been monitoring this situation daily as the article states, then I doubt we would have had to have these meetings. And also note that the delivery truck picture was taken Tuesday, the same day we met with the reporter. We get pictures like this virtually every week day, so apparently the daily monitoring hasn't changed things here.

I also disagree with the starbucks supervisor's statement in the article that the starbucks deliveries take place at 9-9:30PM. More like 11PM to midnight most nights. He did state in the article that he's gone at that time so we're not sure where he came up with the 9-9:30 delivery time.

The neighborhood has also asked to have that 'No Parking Anytime' section of St. Francis painted with a red curb because that's where the fire controls are for that entire building. The city hasn't answered us on that for months now.

We've also asked for a speed cushion on St. Francis months ago before W. Bayshore was closed for bridge repairs until November. Unfortunately, the city waited until just recently to acknowledge our request and begin a "study." Too bad they waited so long because since the Bayshore closure, our traffic is about half of what it will revert to again in November. Any study done now will be pretty worthless.

It would also help a lot if the city would let the city workers and city school bus drivers know that they cannot park in a "No Parking Anytime" zone on St. Francis while they get breakfast or lunch or coffee or whatever. We noticed a city utility truck and city public services truck parked in that zone yesterday and today a short city school bus. Then a car parked behind the bus. It would really help if the city would set an example.

Also, please don't call 911 as mentioned above for non-emergencies. Call their non-emergency no. at 650-329-2413 if you see someone blocking the St. Francis bike lane or your driveway. But good luck with that.

Thanks again to Lydia Kou and Sue Dremmen.

Posted by Lunatics
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 22, 2017 at 7:46 pm

Didn't City council demand that there should be a public benefit; such as a grocery store, coffee shop..ect? So what's the problem?

Posted by Resident
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 22, 2017 at 7:52 pm


According to DMV a Commercial vehicle is allowed to block the road up to twenty minutes... If I was the delivery person and resident kept calling 911, I would be sure to use up every minute of the twenty to unload.

Posted by Resident
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 22, 2017 at 8:02 pm

[Portion removed.]

Posted by Anon2
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Sep 22, 2017 at 10:01 pm

How does a freight delivery parking issue become a landlord’s fault? If our law enforcement and landlord’s continued tenant education were both unable to yield improvements, why don’t the concerned neighbors come up with the solution? Go ahead and cite the trucks. Otherwise, those Midnight truck drivers aren’t paid enough to care about your sleeping problems, neither are the school bus drivers.

Posted by BP
a resident of The Greenhouse
on Sep 22, 2017 at 10:40 pm

@parent, please don't call 911 for parking violations. 911 is meant for true emergencies. Please note that, they will divert your call to a non emergency center. In doing so, the dispatchers lose precious minutes. I suggest, you go and watch a 911 center in action and you will realize the volume of calls those folks deal with.

People use 911 for all sort of trivial things and then complain that the emergency personnel didn't respond within 'x' minutes.

Posted by Another Edgewood Neighbor
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Sep 23, 2017 at 7:41 am

It's indeed wonderful that Councilmember Lydia Kou and Palo Alto Weekly report Sue Dremann are involved and I hope they can help get our problems solved.

A person above says the DMV allows a commercial vehicle to block a road for 20 minutes. That doesn't sound right at all and would be disastrous in many situations. Rather, Chapter 9 Section 22500 (c) of the California Vehicle Code says local governments can use both signs and red curbs to designate areas where no vehicle may park. And 10.36.080 of Palo Alto's code explicitly allows the city to designate areas where no vehicle may park.

In fact, one can of red paint will likely solve most of the bike lane and street delivery problems. But in Palo Alto, we'll probably have to put out a request for bids and hire a consulting company to study this and prepare thick reports with detailed recommendations to be pondered over at late night meetings.

And despite the city's claims "that code enforcement officers [are] monitoring the property on a daily basis in response to the complaints," they apparently have yet to catch any of the daily delivery trucks regularly waking people up. Kind of makes you wonder ... Next, we'll be told we need to send the officers off to high-priced executive training retreats on "Aberrant Vehicle Behavior Detection Techniques" so they can learn what an illegally-parked truck looks like.

Posted by Mr. Edge Wood
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Sep 24, 2017 at 3:55 pm

If Starbucks doesn't make your Frapalattechino right THEN call 911.

Posted by Haha
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2017 at 7:54 am

You guys wanted to maintain a retail presence (for your own access to a neighborhood grocery store) at Edgewood there instead of housing. You got what you asked for.

Posted by CrescentParkAnon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 25, 2017 at 12:16 pm

I wonder what the noise was like when Lucky or Albertson's grocers were in that spot?
Most likely there was a simliar situation way back than that perhaps few remember since
it was so long ago.

I used to live acress the street from a supermarket in Mountain View and we had a similar
problem early in the morning.

Noise pollution can be a real annoyance which is why I'd like to the airport closed and
airline routes changed of put back to what they used to be. I was watching a documentary
about New York City back in the 19th century before they ever worried about noise
pollution. There were measurements that were regularly damaging to hearing that
everyone just ignored because there was no legal framework or recognition of rights
around noise pollution. Let's not go back to those days.

Maybe deliveries can perhaps be rescheduled. Asking stores to be more quiet often
doesn't seem to work no matter what they say. But are there just deliveries or workmess
that will be gone when the new market is up and running?

As far as kids' bikes being blocked - this can happen anywhere for any reason so kids
need to be taught to evaluate safety first. Get off their bikes and walk it, or ride in the
vehicle lane safely. If your kid cannot do they they are not mature enough to ride
their bikes on Palo Alto roads.

Posted by Crescent Park Dad
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 25, 2017 at 1:57 pm

When Yucky's was here - the deliveries were handled inside the shopping center (as stated in the above article) parking lots, not on the street or in the "no parking" zones.

I would add that the parking lot is still a carpool meeting/parking spot. Last Thursday I rode my bike down to Edgewood to grab a coffee --- watched 3 office-type people park their cars directly across from Starbucks, get into a waiting vehicle and drive off.

Posted by Crescent Park Dad
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 25, 2017 at 2:02 pm

re: bikes, kids, lanes, etc.

While a valid point concerning kids evaluating bike riding safety --- the persons at-fault are the drivers of the illegally parked vehicles, not the kids. Why make the kids adjust to a constant problem instead of the exception? St. Francis can be a busy street at times - allowing delivery drivers to illegally put *any* bike rider at risk is the issue here.

Posted by Resident
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 25, 2017 at 2:49 pm

CP Dad.

Yes, we need carpool parking lots. The City in its infinite wisdom hasn't provided any carpool lots so people use whatever they can find. Don't blame the workers, they need to park somewhere. Instead, we must get the city to put in carpool lots at 101 and 280 ramps to allow people to park and carpool or park and shuttle.

Do you really want those people parking in downtown areas? Probably not. So please understand that they are doing their best to carpool.

Posted by David
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Sep 25, 2017 at 3:23 pm

Blocking kids from going to school.???? Kids are riding to school at 4 and 5am now.??? I guess times have changed.

Posted by the_punnisher
a resident of Mountain View
on Sep 25, 2017 at 6:13 pm

the_punnisher is a registered user.

I know an easy solution to unwanted vehicles in a n illegal parking spot. It is a shraider valve remover tire cap and a tubless tire valve stem. Lay the valve core next to the vehicle so you don't get involved with theft charges.

This resolves any illegal parking in handicapped spaces when I need one. It's better thas getting into an argument with the driver. If the laws were enforced, I wouldn't have to do that to get compliance with the law. Since cops don't have to serve the public ( the SCOTUS ruling in Castle Rock vs Gonzales ) citizens have to look out for themselves. THAT IS THE LAW NOW!

Web Link

Yes, you have no reason to think a police department will do it's job and make anyone follow the law. Even Sand Hill. Money talks the loudest.....

Posted by Online Name
a resident of Barron Park
on Sep 25, 2017 at 7:09 pm

@ the punisher

What a wonderful idea, we need to go to all the schools and teach all those stop sign running, scofflaw bicycle kids a lesson. Shraider valve remover it is!

Posted by Lenore
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Sep 25, 2017 at 11:53 pm

Loading and unloading was done at the loading dock zone at the eastside of the store- and the loading dock faced out to the frontage road. That area is now considerably smaller and, if I understand correctly, can only be used by the tennant of the grocery store space.

There is nothing stopping the delivery trucks from pulling into the center in the early morning - hardly a car in sight - unload and leave. It would considerably cut down on the noise and safety. Also the ramp on St. Francis is not suppose to be there. That area was to be landscaped. It would be great if SandHill would check on its property and abide by the rules they agreed to and have the police respond to repeated calls from neighbors ....a ticket or two would alter befhavior of the drivers quickly and the word would spread.......stay off the street, out of the bike lane when unloading - no matter what time of day or night

Posted by Crescent Park Dad
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 26, 2017 at 1:58 pm

The carpoolers can easily find a public street to park and meet vs. taking up spaces of a private parking lot. It happens on Channing (near Newell) several times a week. I also see people park their cars on Channing and ride their skateboards, e-boards or bikes into downtown.

Posted by Crescent Park Dad
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 26, 2017 at 2:00 pm

@ David: You know just well as everyone else that the delivery trucks can be seen parked on St. Francis (in the bike lane) during the middle of the day.

Posted by sorta funny
a resident of College Terrace
on Sep 26, 2017 at 2:26 pm

the neighborhood agitates loudly for a shopping center, and then agitates loudly when said shopping center receives their deliveries of product.

Posted by john_alderman
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 26, 2017 at 2:38 pm

john_alderman is a registered user.

@sorta funny - The shopping center has been there for 60 years. Unfortunately the parking lot where trucks would unload was converted into a handful of houses.

Posted by Resident
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 26, 2017 at 4:32 pm

CP Dad

Office workers taking street parking is causing a great deal of problems around town. Haven't you read all the threads about parking permits and people not being able to park on the streets outside their homes?

I am not of course advocating that these office workers park in private lots that are needed for shoppers. What I am advocating is that there is a need for the City of Palo Alto to provide parking lots near 101 and 280 freeways to enable car poolers and shuttle riders park rather than add to the traffic and parking problems in downtown areas.

Posted by David
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Sep 26, 2017 at 8:29 pm

@ Crescent Park Dad.. I live on the corner of St.Francis and Embarcadero. [Portion removed.] The trucks are not their in the middle of the day.. Morning .? yes. I work from home, So yes i know for a fact they are not in the bike lane all day.. My two sons and are neighbors dont seem to make it a big deal..

Posted by Observer
a resident of Woodland Ave. area (East Palo Alto)
on Sep 27, 2017 at 9:22 am

Some of you people will Never be happy, I suspect...

Can't have your cake & eat it too.

Posted by Crescent Park Dad
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 27, 2017 at 9:26 am

Did I say "all day"? No. Read again please. Do trucks park on the "no parking" curb during the day. Yes. Is it all the time? No. But it does happen. [Portion removed.]

Posted by Hmmm
a resident of East Palo Alto
on Sep 28, 2017 at 1:42 pm

Resident - if residents have a hard time parking on the streets outside their homes because others have parked there, oh well. They can park nearby and walk. It's s public street. Most of the residents in the Edgewood area have driveways and garages. Parking on a public street all day, unless otherwise indicated, is legal.

Posted by Crescent Park Dad
a resident of Crescent Park
on Oct 1, 2017 at 7:05 pm

Hmmm, you're missing the point of this article. It's about trucks parking in the bike lane where it is clearly posted as a "No Parking" curb.

Posted by Resident
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Oct 2, 2017 at 1:41 am

Hmm, your comment addressed to me is indeed correct. It is legal to park on the street all day. It doesn't exclude the need for carpool parking lots and dedicated shuttles to downtown business areas.

Parking and traffic downtown and Cal Ave are terrible. The city expects people to walk, bike and carpool, or use transit. People who commute into town need somewhere to park so that they can walk, bike, carpool, or use shuttles. Without designated parking lots with designated shuttles, it is hard to see how the City expects those commuting in from places like the East Bay, Milpitas, etc. to walk, bike, or use shuttles.

Posted by Edgewood Neighbor
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Oct 5, 2017 at 3:31 pm

Good news Edgewood Shopping Center Neighbors!!!

We received this message below on 10/4/17 from the Palo Alto Deputy City Manager. We've noticed things have already begun improving here. We also met with Palo Alto's Chief Transportation Official on 10/5/17 and the city will be working on and experimenting with some traffic mitigation issues for St. Francis and the St. Francis-Channing intersection for traffic calming and making this area safer and less crazy for drivers and pedestrians and neighbors alike. These things take time but the City appears to already be making a difference here. The majority of delivery trucks are now using the back parking lot and we haven't heard the late night starbucks delivery truck all week. That's a serious improvement alone. We'll have red curbs on St. Francis in 1 to 1.5 months and other measures are being taken to deal with bright lights shining outward from the shopping center park and more. City Council Member Lydia Kou and PA Weekly reporter Sue Dremman had a lot to do with the progress that has been and will be made here. Sincere thanks to both of them and the neighbors and concerned parties that helped.

Deputy City Mgr's 10/4/17 message follows below:

Good afternoon,

My name is Rob de Geus, I work in the Palo Alto’s City Manager’s Office. Due to the high level of concern about illegal parking and other concerns at Edgewood Plaza, and because more than one City department is involved in the response, I am helping coordinate both communication and the response to the concerns. I have also had the spoken with Council member Kou which was very helpful.
The primary concern and focus is to address the illegal parking on St. Francis. To that end our Public Works staff will schedule painting of the curb red, you can expect this to occur within 4 to 6 weeks. In addition both Palo Alto Police and Code Enforcement staff are spending additional time at Edgewood Plaza to issue citations to individuals who are parking, loading or unloading on St. Francis illegally. I understand some of the most disruptive loading and unloading occurs at very early hours of the morning, and therefore staff have and will periodically visit the site at these times. Regarding City vehicles illegally parking on St. Francis, we are in the process of reminding all City staff that parking a city vehicle illegally anywhere is unacceptable. Lastly, the City’s Chief Transportation Official will review and evaluate the potential need for traffic calming measures on St. Francis. I expect these action steps will help change behavior, not immediately but over time.
Regarding other concerns about Edgewood Plaza, such as the conditions of benches and tables, lighting and individuals smoking, staff are communicating these concerns to the property owner to address, some of which have occurred already, including the repair and replacement of the outdoor furniture.
Thank you, I hope you find this information helpful, please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Rob de Geus
Deputy City Manager 250 Hamilton Ave | Palo Alto, CA 94301
D: 650.463.4951 | F: 650.321.5612 | E: [email protected]

Posted by SaintFrank
a resident of Crescent Park
on Oct 6, 2017 at 12:23 pm

> if residents have a hard time parking on the streets outside their homes because others have parked there, oh well.

Oh well? That comment shows a lack of consideration and as antipathy towards Palo Alto residents without any positive vision - wow. As if all street parking is the same everywhere. It is not. This seems to be a carryover from the Newell Bridge situation that we have not heard anything about in over a year at least.

The spots on St. Francis are good parking spots and anything to change that should be looked at carefully. There were times, for example, when I used to grab a quick lunch and park out there to eat and listen to the radio before my next appointment. If they are gone that is going to put even more people in the parking lot longer. On the other side we have the City of Palo Alto's escalating war on vehicles and parking. At least during the day those spots make a significant dent in the number of parking places and the crowding in the center's parking and driving.

Have you been in the Edgewood parking lot when it is almost full and people are driving around looking for a place while others are trying to park, while others are trying to leave. It is a complete mess and it takes a long time for some people to figure out what to do to avoid a real jam-up. We do want people to go shop here don't we, because if parking is too difficult people are going to start avoiding it.

Posted by SaintFrank
a resident of Crescent Park
on Oct 6, 2017 at 12:32 pm

> Unfortunately the parking lot where trucks would unload was converted into a handful of houses.

Yeah, how is that anyway? An elementary school kid could see the problems with that decision, but our City Officials keep making the same mistake again and again. Why is there no transparency on who and why these lousy decisions are made, and no answerability for them ... after there is no way to fix the situation. I know the PAO doesn't like the unqualified word "corruption" but what else can explain how these kinds of bad painful to people forever decisions are made over and over? We may live in sunny CA, but Palo Alto's decisions keep getting made under cover of darkness it seems.

This is millions of dollars "invested" by the City, but to developers it is a "fait accompli" once they cash the check. Thankfully there is the install a market clause or we would have an newer updated empty market sitting in that shopping center forever.

We are supposed to have the most brilliant minds in our area, and the most savvy investors ... so, what is wrong systemically that we get only repeated incompetence?

Posted by Marie
a resident of Midtown
on Oct 6, 2017 at 3:31 pm

Marie is a registered user.

And then there was a giant white truck delivering supplies occupying more than a lane on California Avenue shortly after 9PM last Monday night. I had to ask them to move to be able to get out of my parking place. It is still busy at that time with almost all parking spots occupied thanks to the thriving restaurant scene.

Thanks are due to the PA Police for responding quickly to my complaint and talking to the drivers. According to them, for some reason I did not catch, they could no longer make deliveries in the back as there was some problem with the parking lot. However, their boss was not there so the policeman was going to come back Tuesday to discuss further the need to return to deliveries from the back.

I wish he had given them a ticket for obstructing traffic. Deliveries should not block main street during busy times.

I've also seen a delivery truck stopped in the middle of Alma to deliver to Grocery Outlet but I can kind of understand given that the developers were allowed a very narrow driveway. Also, there were two lanes on Alma and it was a very slow traffic time. Still I think any commercial business should be required to have a loading dock that does not block traffic.

Posted by anon
a resident of Crescent Park
on Dec 1, 2017 at 9:19 pm

I think the ideal situation would be for residents of st francis and most of palo alto to do their shopping at strip malls and eat sweedish meat balls at ikea in east palo alto. God forbid a delivery truck show up in front of your house. hopefully we will all just be able to buy everything on amazon and gut any soul left in our god awful suburb.

Posted by Online Name
a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Dec 2, 2017 at 5:43 pm

If you want to complain about delivery trucks, complain about the UPS and Fedex trucks double-parking and blocking traffic all day and much much of the night. Those companies monitor their drivers down to the second and penalize them if they spend any time trying to park, checking addresses and/or talking to the customers.

Many drivers are contractors with no benefits who work very long hours, like the poor person who delivered a package to us after 9PM on a Friday night.

We're all paying the price. Welcome to the 21st century

Posted by Parking maze
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Dec 6, 2017 at 11:44 am

SaintFrank said:
Have you been in the Edgewood parking lot when it is almost full and people are driving around looking for a place while others are trying to park, while others are trying to leave. It is a complete mess and it takes a long time for some people to figure out what to do to avoid a real jam-up. We do want people to go shop here don't we, because if parking is too difficult people are going to start avoiding it.

This happened to me yesterday, mid-afternoon. People maneuvering in and out, clogging the whole place. Quite unpleasant. Lot must have been designed by a maze designer.

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