Typical behavior that happens all the time in alcohol dispensaries.
People don't seem to mind though...as long as they can still drink their precious wines and such they'll put up with countless lives lost on the roads and endless streams of violence that are all directly tied to alcohol.

"Arriaga-Fragoso also had an outside warrant"

This is where the biometric database should come into action. If this guy was forced to look into an iris scan device, or submit to a fingerprint scanner, or a facial recognition camera this entire thing could have been prevented (he probably would not have even shown up).

Drunks are a real problem, but criminal drunks are a much worse problem. Eliminate the criminals, at the front door, then deal with the standard-issue drunks.

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

Ya know, it is altogether possible that the reason for the violence had nothing to do with alcohol, methinks you are jumping a little rashly to conclusions.

I also believe that, while alcohol may lower inhibitions to resorting to violence (and other things) there are those who do not need alcohol to stoop to violence.

I find it interesting that one man hit the other with a bottle, but both men were injured? Could it be that there was self defense involved?

As for scanning all bar patrons for a criminal past before allowing access to the bar,...... come on now, let's get real. Do you REALLY want to go into the issues involved in trying to set that up and enforce it? Hahahaha

"As for scanning all bar patrons for a criminal past before allowing access to the bar,...... come on now, let's get real. Do you REALLY want to go into the issues involved in trying to set that up and enforce it? "

Yes. There is too much time wasted on checking driver licenses for age checks. Just have eveyrone look into the camera for two seconds, then pass on. The age check and criminal check will be next to automatic. Bars have bouncers for a reason...they can handle it.

When I go out for an evening, I don't want to be in a situation where criminals are drinking booze in the same establishment.

"Just have eveyrone look into the camera for two seconds, then pass on. The age check and criminal check will be next to automatic."

Okay,... And what are those cameras attached to? sounds like some expensive retnal scan hardware. Who's is going to pay for that? The bar? Right.

What is that equipment attached to? A nework, right? Linked to a nationwaide database of all criminal records, by retnal scan? You think a database with that information actually exists? You thing every bar is oging to be granted access to it for the purpose of checking criminal histories? You think the legions of civil rights lawyers are going to sit still for that?

Supposing this database DOES exist and bars are granted access, scanning for a set of fingerprints takes days, is the patron going to wait for that? Prolly not,...

What crimes are you going to scan for? Violent crimes? Prior DUI? Shoplifting? Non-payment of child support? Civil disobedience at an anti-war rally? Shall we include misdomenors and parking violations?

Bars hire bouncers, yes, but they are floaters, just hanging out in case they are needed. You are talking about stationing them at the door, and that means the need for more bouncers. Between that and the equipment you propose most bars would go out of business. Make all customes wait at the door for a few hours and business will dry up REAL fast.

You want to reduce violence? Then don't tell a rowdy crowd they cannot enter the bar because the network is down and retnal scans cannot be done right now.

Hey, sorry about that, reality can be a problem.

Gentlemen, gentlemen. Improve your minds rather than knock each other senseless with beer bottles crashing down on the noggin.

As an older PA resident, it's funny to me that there are these so-called nightclubs in the city that are completely out of my PA experience. The only time I know they exist is when someone outside of or leaving one is a victim of a crime.

Palo Alto needs to shutter the California Avenue "night club", which has always been a PROBLEM topic. How long does PA need to remember its checkered Barron Park past and the long, stupid history of "The Keystone", "The Edge", others and now "Club Illusions"? The only illusion here is that these are good businesses for Palo Alto.

"As an older PA resident, it's funny to me that there are these so-called nightclubs in the city that are completely out of my PA experience. The only time I know they exist is when someone outside of or leaving one is a victim of a crime."

I share your experience, I do not know much about these things at all. I assume it is because I was never a Stanford student, I was married when I came to this town, I don't drink much, and I have better things to do with my time. But hey, things do not lose their reason to exist just because I do not partake.

" ... the long, stupid history of "The Keystone".

Uh, Muddy Waters, Jerry Garcia Band, Paul Butterfield, John Lee Hooker. To name a few.

Stupid history ? You must have missed their sets.

And now people want to legalize marijuana?

This isn't the kind of behavior one would expect from a marijuana user. Violence is much more associated with alcohol.

"Okay,... And what are those cameras attached to? sounds like some expensive retnal scan hardware. Who's is going to pay for that? The bar? Right."

Right, just as they do for their credit card purchases...which are attached to databases and computers, etc. No big deal, if the bars are willing to increase the safety of their establisments (and get even more business). If there is an outstanding warrant on a potential customer, then that customer should not be allowed inside the joint, period.

Hahaha, you make it sound as if retnal scanning is as cheap and simple as CC scanning, like the amount of data transferred is the same, as if there are automatic routing codes built into your retna like on a CC, as if the comparison was as simple as matching a number, as if everyone has already signed a waver allowing this invasion of privacy like they did when they accepted a credit card. I don't recall waving my rights to privacy when I accepted my eyeballs.

So visualize a bar on an out-of-the-way road, and half a dozen Harlies with ape-hanger handlebars pull up. Most of the riders are wearing dirty leather jackets that say "Hells Angels" on the back. The leader of the group is miffed at being stopped for a retnal scan and offers to place the scanner in an uncomfortable place. I just don't see a good outcome, especially knowing that several of their number have outstanding warrants.

" I just don't see a good outcome, especially knowing that several of their number have outstanding warrants."

So, just have bars advertise, "We do NOT require biometric controls".

Then let the marketplace decide...and the courts, when things go bad. It won't be long before almost all the bars decide that it is worth the effort to provide safety, via biometric methods. And yes, the drinks will may cost a bit more...depends on the outcome of the lawsuits for not providing the biometric safety barrier.

Don't tell me Kevin, you work ar a company that is developing biometric scanning systems, right?

"you work ar a company that is developing biometric scanning systems, right?"

No. However, I do understand what the digital environment contains, and that includes a strong barrier against criminals. This includes DNA and various biometic methods. It is all bad news for the thugs. Since I am not a thug, I am qite happy about all of this anti-thug technology.

Are you?

I guess I don't get why people want to go to places where stuff like this happens? Are people either ignorant of it, or so bored and numb they need the excitement, or this is just acceptable behavior these days? Sheesh.

So just think, every night when these people do not knock each other senseless an get arrested they leave the clubs and drive around or walk around town ready to bump into the rest of us.

I just wonder how I have been able to get to middle age without every getting hit over the head with a bottle or feeling the need to smash a bottle over someone else's head. So far. just lucky I guess.

Agree with the comment about the Keystone. That was a legendary venue for seminal bay area rock acts during a time when the bay area was an important and influential hotbed of musical evolution. The transition to the underage dance club scene ala the Edge and Illusions is unfortunate.