The more things change, the more they remain the same. I remember a lot of kids at Paly doing this. Then the boys would get into head butting wrestling matches. Head injuries & alcohol - a great combination.

Did they drive or walk to the nightclub?

Good job by the club bouncer to call the cops before the idiots got even sicker or tried to drive while drunk. I hope that the DA does charge whoever supplied the booze to these underage drinkers.

We need more activities for teens in Palo Alto, during the summer, weekends and particularly Friday and Saturday evenings!

Kids, lol.

> We need more activities for teens in Palo Alto ..

We need more parents for teens in Palo Alto ...

I could be mistaken, but I believe the party at Illusions was for a Paly student's birthday party. The parents have been renting the club out every year and she invites half the school to attend. Parents trying to be cool and unable to know when to stop spoiling their kids.

It's not about having more activities for teens.

It's 9pm: Do you know where your kids are?

Does this seem to be a common thing at Illusions? I have walked by and seen some VERY young children who looked to be intoxicated. One time, I tried to talk to one of them and she made a vulgar comment and went back inside.

First of all, this article has numerous factual errors, and clearly these sources were basing their information on rumors rather than concrete evidence. Second of all, it's not a matter of needing more activities or "needing more parents," whether you agree with it or not high school students are going to drink and will find a way to do it regardless of any factor.
In response to "Hmmm," while teens aren't exactly geniuses in decision making, they are not completely incapable of making a smart choice. As far as I am concerned almost every single student at the party either walked or had a Designated Driver who did not drink that night.
While the illegality factor might make it more prevalent in teens, there are equally as many adults who are "idiots" and don't know their limits as far as drinking is concerned. I find it completely rude and ignorant of adults to put a blanket judgement over teens like that when oftentimes it is the adults who can't hold their liquor or make sound judgements about it.
Lastly, to "Jim H" who stated, "The parents have been renting the club out every year and she invites half the school to attend. Parents trying to be cool and unable to know when to stop spoiling their kids," what does any of that have to do with the issue at hand? Not only are you clearly uninformed as this is only the second birthday party that they have thrown, and that "half the school" is a gross overestimation, but who are you to judge and assume that you know these parents? It is neither their fault nor the fault of the student that the attendees drank too much for their bodies and they should have nor do they have any blame whatsoever in this situation.
I know that every parent in Palo Alto and probably the greater Bay Area region want to cover their eyes and plug their ears to the fact that the chances are high that your high school student is drinking, but until you face that fact you will all continue to make disgusting accusations and point the finger at every parent other than yourselves.

Ooooh, Senior, go get 'em! It's good to know that lives weren't endangered by the illegal, underage drinking & intoxication w/drunk teens driving.

You're right, some teens are responsible & make good choices, even if they're drinking underage, & plenty of adults make poor decisions.

You're also right that parents turn a blind eye to this & don't want to know how widespread it is, & how widespread it was in my day, too. Like I said, the more things change the more they remain the same.

Maybe Palo Alto's social host ordinance needs to be updated to include hosting parties like this one on public property. Currently, Palo Alto Municipal Code Section 9.04.040 prohibits hosting an underage drinking party on private property:

9.04.040 Certain social gatherings unlawful.
(a) Definitions. For the purposes of this section, the following words have the following meanings:

(1) "Juvenile" means any minor child under the age of eighteen years of age.

(2) "Minor" means any person under the age of twenty-one years of age.

(3) "Gathering or event" means a group of four or more persons who have assembled or are assembling for a social occasion or a social activity.

(4) "Persons responsible for the event" means and includes, but is not limited to:

(A) The person who owns, rents, leases or otherwise has control of the premises where the gathering or event takes place; provided that the term "person" shall not include the owner of the premises where the owner leases or rents the premises to a third party and has no actual knowledge that the gathering or event in question will take place on the premises.

(B) The person in charge of the premises.

(C) The person who organized the event and/or the host of the event.

(b) No person under the age of twenty-one years shall consume or have in his/her possession or control any alcoholic beverage at any place not open to the public, unless that person is being supervised by his/her parent or legal guardian.

(c) Except as permitted by Article I, Section 4, of the California Constitution, and the Alcoholic Beverage Control Act (California Business and Professions Code Sections 23000 et seq.), no person shall suffer, permit, allow or host a gathering or event at his/her place of residence or other private property, place or premises under his/her control where persons under the age of twenty-one are present and alcoholic beverages are in the possession of, or are being consumed by, any person under the age of twenty-one years in violation of subdivision (b) of this section.

(Ord. 4981 § 1, 2007)

Highschool parents are going to start complaining about how their kid is having sex every weekend, and they can't do anything about it? I laughed pretty hard, when i read this... I would like to suggest to anyone trying to drink or smoke, and not get in trouble to go to Stanford next time as the Papd has no jurisdiction there.
- ( . Y . ) for dinner!

Senior,
What exactly are the "numerous factual errors"? Looks like the only source is the police spokesman, Max Nielepko. Which part is untrue? The number 10? That the security guard called police? That they were at 1899 Park Blvd? That they were cited for public drunkenness? That one had to be taken to the hospital?

Encouraging that the kids are smart enough to know to walk or get a driver when they know they'll be getting plowed. And if there were any underage kids drinking AT the party, then the club should be shut down.

"Illusions" should have its alcohol license cancelled, if it is selling to minors. It is very easy to run a sting on such establishments. Palo Alto parents, especially those who have sway in PA politics, demand that the police go soft on such illegal drinking (even if there is drinking and driving). These parents do not want their spoiled children to have a police record, which might influence their future college or job opportunities.

My three kids went through the Palo Alto System, and I watched it all develop. I know whereof I speak.

Sounds like the Club management did the right thing and called police.

What preventative actions are realistic?

The article said the drinking occurred before the party and not on the Club premises so I don't see how that Muni. Code section is relevant. The drinking happened in a public park not at a hosted event.

Unless a teen is staying home under parent supervision, there isn't a way to prevent them from drinking in a local park. Do we want to staff all parks with police? Do we expect parents to follow their teens all evening? Most teens have a curfew later than 9 PM (the time they entered the Club).

While we can't stop teen drinking, I suggest we all try to make it VERY inconvenient for our teens to drink.

My liquor and controlled prescription medicines are locked; are yours?

What age were the teens? There is a big difference on how a parent parents a 14 year old to say a 17 year old. Neither age should be in the park drinking, but what are a group of 17 year olds supposed to do in the evenings? How are parents coping with monitoring 17 year olds on weekend evenings? And what happens when they turn 18?

It isn't always "blame the parents" scenario.

"Damien,"
Although it is nitpicky, the actual number was 11. The security guard did not call the police about the girl needing to go to the hospital, a fellow Paly senior did. And two girls had to be taken to the hospital.
"Jerry,"
There was no underage drinking inside the party as there were bag checks and some body checks as well, and therefore it is not the fault of Illusions or the parents renting it out.
"Gunn Parent,"
I'm not sure what it used to be like, but almost every single student has access to alcohol/drugs if they so desire it. Whether it be through their own fake ID, a friend with a fake, or even a friend who is over the age of 21, there is always some way to attain these illegal materials, and 9 times out of 10 it is not through raiding their parents' liquor cabinets. Although it is sad, it is the truth. While almost all of my friends drink, I personally do not find the appeal and it is because of this that I can have an informed yet unbiased view of teenage drinking and the like.

Making it hard for your own kids to access liquor and drugs at home is a great idea, even their own meds. Kids sell their ADD meds to each other. And kids pay homeless people and/or opportunity center residents to buy them liquor at CVS.

Idk I think I might end up transferring, staying in the bay would probably be the best option for me right now

Senior,

I didn't come down with yesterday's rain, OK? Fake ID cards are as easy to come by as a joint. It is up to Illusions, or any other establishemnt that serves booze, to establish that the fake ID is fake. There are ways, if an establishment really wants to do it. If Illusions wants to ignore its responsibility, it should be shut down by ABC.

Publicly drunk teens should be taken, without a call to their parents, to juvenile hall. Their parents will need to deal with the consequences, inluding the liklihood that their adorable children may not get into their college of choice. Imagine that?

Parents who serve booze at home should be held accountable to criminal legal consequences, as well as civil liability exposure.

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

Jerry, you should learn not to judge people based on their age. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

Jerry,
I don't know who you think you are to judge people like this. If you are actually a parent and adult like you said, than I honestly feel sorry that you must attack high school students to feel important. And I don't know how many times someone has to say this until you understand: THE ALCOHOL WAS NOT SOLD AT THE CLUB. Kids drank at the park, it had nothing to do with Illusions not recognizing fake IDs and it wasn't the club's fault or the poor girl who was trying to have a birthday party that dumb teens decided to do that to themselves.

Jerry,
You've digressed to insulting the senior, which completely destroys your argument, in my opinion. It is no secret that sometimes parties spiral out of hand, as the PAPD probably knows all to well. In addition, what is the point of throwing the kids into a juvenile detention facility? First off, it costs the tax-payers money, something that everybody brings up in times like these. In addition, drinking a little bit of alcohol never hurt anybody. Sure, it was illegal, but I'm fairly certain they didn't drive. Yes, it's not the wisest idea, seeing as how two girls ended up in the hospital, but they're good human beings. I know them; they're not criminals.

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

I think the real issue is that too many people think they can solve the problem by blaming it on everybody in the community (excluding themselves) and encouraging stricter punishments. That won't work out too well.

This is pretty funny - the teenagers are ganging up on the grown ups because we are being critical & don't have all the facts.

But the main fact remains - this happened in my day, in Jerry's day & today. It'll keep happening, w/much cover up, as that's the way it is in Shallow Alto.

Hi Jerry,

I think you may have received some wrong information. Illusions DOES NOT sell alcohol during these dances. Furthermore, they lock up their liquor cabinets and the bar is in a completely separate room that is chained and locked as well. I was one of the members that hosted a benefit dance at the Illusions facility, and I can tell you the management goes through great pains to make sure things are safe.

If you read senior's comment made to you he/she says

"There was no underage drinking inside the party as there were bag checks and some body checks as well, and therefore it is not the fault of Illusions or the parents renting it out."

In response to "Hmmm," while teens aren't exactly geniuses in decision making, they are not completely incapable of making a smart choice. As far as I am concerned almost every single student at the party either walked or had a Designated Driver who did not drink that night.

While the illegality factor might make it more prevalent in teens, there are equally as many adults who are "idiots" and don't know their limits as far as drinking is concerned. I find it completely rude and ignorant of adults to put a blanket judgement over teens like that when oftentimes it is the adults who can't hold their liquor or make sound judgements about it.

Lastly, to "Jim H" who stated, "The parents have been renting the club out every year and she invites half the school to attend. Parents trying to be cool and unable to know when to stop spoiling their kids," what does any of that have to do with the issue at hand? Not only are you clearly uninformed as this is only the second birthday party that they have thrown, and that "half the school" is a gross overestimation, but who are you to judge and assume that you know these parents? It is neither their fault nor the fault of the student that the attendees drank too much for their bodies and they should have nor do they have any blame whatsoever in this situation.

I know that every parent in Palo Alto and probably the greater Bay Area region want to cover their eyes and plug their ears to the fact that the chances are high that your high school student is drinking, but until you face that fact you will all continue to make disgusting accusations and point the finger at every parent other than yourselves."

It is not imperative that high school students be drinking, I�m not sure where that brilliant idea comes from. You�re going to have to do better than that�there�s no way you can back that up.

It makes little sense to say �as far as I�m concerned, etc�. Either the students had rides or they didn�t; that is quantitative data and your opinion doesn�t matter. And I�m sure you know that most likely 25% of the school routinely drives drunk or intoxicated (in general, not necessarily at this party)

Statistically, teens are worse at making sound decisions compared to adults, so there is not an equal numbers of adults and teens who don�t know their limits. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

The fact that the parents rented out Illusions is relevant because they created an opportunity for drinking to happen. Most parents are aware of what their kids do, and I�m sure the parents knew very well what kind of �party� they were planning. Parents facilitate drinking a lot: they give kids cars who don�t need them, they �leave� the house and kids coincidentally have huge house parties during their parents� absence.
I�ve been at this kid�s house and he had 20 people over playing beerpong in his garage while the parents �slept� in the adjacent house. You REALLY think parents are completely oblivious?
And fine, she invited 1/4th of the school, plus or minus the number of people who aren�t seniors. Big difference�

So we're ganging up against Jerry because we remarked how his statement insulting our teachers, parents, and selves was a bad argument? I don't really see things on the same plane, if that's the case.

And "Shallow Alto"? How does that tie in? Is underage drinking shallow? I don't see how that would be the case. Is standing up for ourselves and our peers shallow? That seems like it would be the opposite. Posting on here saying that the kids aren't being punished enough, or blaming the parents or authority figures doesn't solve anything. Why do it?

Jerry, you seem to think that you are an expert on teenage behavior but before you attack Palo Alto teens, you should at least get your facts straight. No one was using fake ids at illusions because they do not sell alcohol at events for people under 18. Illusions is not to blame for teen drunkenness and they were in fact very responsible in contacting parents and dealing with the issue. Teens drink everywhere, not just Palo Alto, and that fact is not going to change. Most of us are not as idiotic about it as the kids in this article and know how to be responsible about drinking. Your statement about sending drunk teens straight to juvenile hall without calling their parents is honestly ridiculous. Kids make mistakes sometimes, but their entire futures should not be ruined because of these mistakes. Teens are under the jurisdiction of their parents, and their parents have a right to be called immediately. Underage drinking has been going on for generations, like it or not, and throwing palo alto teens into juvenile hall will not fix the issue.

Alex - you make some valid points, you may want to repost your comment without the student's name in it since it will probably get removed.

I would like to invite everyone currently commenting on this forum to go up to the top of the page, read the conversation thus far, and ask him or herself exactly what the benefit of this little dialogue has been in regard to solving the teen binge-drinking epidemic.

I think I've made my point.

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

"Is underage drinking shallow? I don't see how that would be the case"

Wait.....What?
And almost all the kida at Paly who attend this kind of event are brats and spoiled.

And you kids saying "just because you make a mistake doesn't mean blah blah"...mistake? really? these dudes have been doing the same thing for like 3-4 years when they go out at night, come on...

there's ways to drink and be safe by the way...but that wouldn't be as cool I guess

The first senior #4 just made a great point, I think. Ignoring problems ALWAYS works.

...

Maybe the problem is that there are no fun/interesting parties in Palo Alto. No one wanted to go to Paly Dance that happened on Friday. The last dance was also canceled and never re-scheduled... Palo Alto is boring for teens. We should have more interesting and better organized events for the teen community.

who carez!? kids will get drunk and party...its not going to change any time soon so just get over it. palo alto sucks

Jerry, I would address more of your blatantly rude claim against me, but it seems that everyone has done it for me. The only one response to you that I posted in my comment was to inform you that there was no selling of alcohol inside the club or use of fake IDs inside Illusions itself. I was merely pointing out to some other commenters on the accessibility of alcohol since to them it didn’t seem apparent. But clearly you took my one simple sentence personally and felt the need to attack me on no grounds of knowing me as a person whatsoever. Never once did I “rant and rave” about teenagers right to drink, I was just discussing the issue as is my right to do. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
Alex, I never said that all high school students drink so I never claimed to be able to back it up because obviously that is not the case.
Saying as far as I’m concerned does not imply that it’s my opinion, I’m simply stating that from what I saw, heard, and talked to people about which is deductive reasoning leading to an informed conclusion.
Excuse me for saying “equal amounts,” had I thought it through I obviously would not have said that, but I was writing in the heat of the moment. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
I also never stated that her parents didn’t know what was going on and I’m sorry that you inferred that from my comments. I merely was saying that some parents in the community turn a blind eye to this issue, but that doesn’t mean that the host’s parents do.
And if you really must know she invited closer to 15% of the entire school population and yes I do believe that there is a “big difference” between 15 and 50.

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

What you’re implying with your initial statement is that drunk driving (may have) happened, but you are not aware of it. That’s not going to help your argument much. Anyways, I know of people who drove drunk, so there’s no point in discussing this issue any further.

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

Well then clearly the people you surround yourself with don't make as wise of decisions as the people that I choose to surround myself with.
Ah and the sarcasm is so greatly appreciated, I'd love to hear your course schedule, GPA, and test scores if you really think that these things have a place in a discussion of this topic. And please, don't even try to pretend that your statement wasn't intended to be offensive as clearly it had to be if the Palo Alto Online staff deemed it inappropriate enough to be removed.
While there are students who choose to take lower level classes in order to have more time for a social life, there is also a very large portion of students at Paly who are able to find a balance between getting good grades and having a life outside of school that is very vibrant as well. Such is the case with the host of the party who happens to be already committed to going to an Ivy League school next fall.
Lastly, almost all of the attendees were either juniors or seniors, but I do not see how that is relevant to the discussion at all.

I go to Paly. Plenty of drunk driving happens. Plenty of drinking happens. The majority of the senior class drinks and/or smokes. I can guarantee you that.

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

What matters here is the well being of our teens and the safety of the community. I agree that this town could use more fun, inviting things for teens to do. I don't really care if some of them drink, as long as they drink in moderation and do not drive under the influence. On the other hand, I don't want my teens to drink because it's against the law. I keep an eye on them and try to provide them with opportunities to do fun and interesting things.

Senior #3, whether or not you are responsible about drinking it is illegal. The law doesn't change because apparently you are able to control yourself when you drink. Yes Jerry did make some comments that were unnecessary and did take a biased side of saying that teens should be sent to Juvenile Hall. But you are also taking a biased side as a teen by saying that teens should not go to juvenile hall and that the responsible ones are not subject to the law because they are able to handle it. It only takes one mistake to drive drunk and crash. Either resulting in an injury or death. Jerry is making the argument that teens should go straight to Juvenile Hall because drinking underage is illegal. He is right that drinking is wrong and that high schoolers shouldn't drink. He is right. No matter how good your argument may be against Jerry's, you are only defending yourself and are taking his criticism towards underage drinkers so seriously because it offends you personally. This means that you are first of all biased, and second of all incapable of looking at the big picture that Jerry is trying to point out that you shouldn't drink and that the way to fix this is by cracking down on high school students.

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

Junior #2, my statement was not meant to infer that teens shouldn't be punished for underage drinking, and the students in this situation were punished, in my opinion, justly. I think the police and security guards dealt with the situation well. However, what "Jerry" seemed to me to be saying was that drunk teens should be immediately put into juvenile hall, without calling their parents. If a student has three strikes with the police, then juvenile hall is an option, but saying that anyone who drinks should be immediately put in jail is too harsh of a reaction. Also, his attacking attitude towards Palo Alto teens and parents was offensive and not a good way to get his opinion heard. I understand that Jerry wants teenagers to stop drinking and that is a valid concern, but his arguments and ideas regarding how to fix it were flawed.

Although I don't disagree completely that there needs to be more crackdown on punishment for intoxication for minors, you are still missing the point Jerry, Illusions wasn't where this incident happened, they turned around the students at the door, the drinking had already occurred.

In every case and house party that I've been aware of, most of the drinking happens beforehand. When they arrive at said dance or club or house party, they are already intoxicated. That said, as people have said, Paly has had a decrease in students going to school dances. The main reason for this is breathalyzers, a simple way to prevent drinking at Illusions as far as your concern is, is to have breathalyzers at any club, which is possible, but then you're just going to have high schoolers on the streets or in houses which is worse in some aspects.

Here's a truth:

If there is a Paly party at a site like Illusions or the Art Center or anywhere else in Palo Alto, there will be kids showing up drunk, high, and on other stuff too.

Ok, so maybe it isn't the best thing for these teens to get completely wasted but this is what teenagers do, like it or not!! I went to Gunn HS about ten years ago and it felt like everyone was drinking all the time. There were huge parties that none of the parents or teachers knew about. These kids went off to great colleges like Stanford and are doing extremely well in life.

In college, I would say that 99% of underage kids drink. There is no way to stop it. It is a part of growing up. It's important that we all know to not drink and drive and to hopefully try to know our limits but some people have to learn their limits.

My main point is that none of these kids should get into serious trouble. Having their parents find out is hard enough. Either way, this wont stop them and if they are held back from having fun they may go off to college and go crazy (like some people I have seen).

At any given moment, when faced with a choice, we always do what we WANT to do. We may not want either option very much, but we still only ever do what we WANT to do. If Senior and co. want to drink, more than they want to obey the law, they drink. If THAT is the problem, then we simply need to make people under 21 want to obey the law more than they want to drink. I think jerry's suggestion was in that vein, but let me simplify it (and apply this principle to everyone in general): allow them to be exposed to the consequences of their actions. if those consequences are less desirable than the alternative, then they will want to obey the law. For the rest of us "adults" (I'm 27 so i'm only sorta an adult), that same principle applies to us in many ways as well. In fact, that majority of the economic trouble this country is in can be traced back to programs which shielded "responsible, hardworking adults" from the consequences of their actions.

Jerry, I don't know why it is taking you so long to understand that there was no drinking going on inside the club. The kids arrived at the party already intoxicated which was why the security guards called the police before the specific kids entered the facility. Patronizing people and ignoring the valid points they are making just because of their age is immature, especially when there have already been dozens of responses and you still don't seem to understand some of the basic facts, whereas all of us silly youngsters seem to have a much firmer understanding of the situation. Please put aside the fact that we are young and listen to what we are saying as some of us are very intelligent and our opinions are especially important to issues that directly affect us.

Junior #3, Please stop moralizing laws. Just become underage drinking is illegal does not mean that it is "wrong." Drinking alcohol is the same action whether someone is 18 or 21. Attaching moral implications to behavior that is legal in many other countries in the world just makes you sound silly. Almost as silly as it sounds to waste precious state resources throwing drunk teenagers in jail to teach them a lesson. If parents were able to have open conversations with their children about drinking rather than merely saying it is "wrong" then maybe these kids would have been safer, which is really what the community should be worried about.

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

just to clear it up my second portion was directed at Junior #2 not Junior #3

HAHA I love when events like these happen because then I get to read this comedy.

THE MORAL OF THE STORY:

1) Underage drinking has occurred for generations

2) It is illegal to drink under the age of 21 (although its 18 in just about every other country in the world). But it happens anyway...

3) Alcohol (and weed) are very accessible to high school kids around here, presumably equally so throughout the country.

4) Kids (and adults) make mistakes, some bigger than others. Getting in a car while intoxicated (by alcohol or drugs) is very serious, and should have very serious consequences. HOWEVER, offenses that don't put other people in harms way (like being drunk in public, i.e. underage drinking in a park) is a very different situation. It has happened in the past, it happens now, and it will continue to happen. DEAL WITH IT.

5) As stated by other accounts, and personal friendships, there are countless teens who are on their way to top-rated universities in preparation for very successful lives, and it is a fact that they drink socially just like any other teenager from any walk of life. My main thesis here is that unless these kids start driving a car, or do something else equally dangerous, LIVE WITH THE FACT THAT THEY DRINK, YOU CAN'T STOP IT.

6) Instead of trying to hinder access to alcohol, it is a wiser and safer approach to make sure these kids are well informed about the dangers of drinking and driving, among other dangers while intoxicated. THE HARDER YOU MAKE IT FOR KIDS TO OBTAIN ALCOHOL, THE FARTHER THEY WILL GO TO GET IT.

7) This is irrelevant, but somebody earlier commented on how offensive it was that teens were in a garage playing beerpong with parents nearby. Unless anybody started driving a car afterward, WHO CARES? If anything, a social game of beer pong educates these kids to know their drinking limits, so they can better handle themselves while they 'pre-game' before a big dance party like the ones held at Illusions and the Lucie Stern Center and other locations.


Teens drink. Adults drink. Babies are born. The elderly pass on. Its the circle of life.

More than the general "news" of SOME teens drinking -- not too much news there except I dispute the idea that ALL do it, I don't care for the condescending tone of some of the students here. Very Palo Alto.
What was reported specifically, even if somewhat in error, is concerning with respect to excessive alcohol intake and the question of transportation and personal health (alcohol poisoning reported). At the same time, stand up and take responsibility for what you do, if you think it is so noteworthy -- like potentially injuring or killing someone (maybe yourself) as a result of your drinking or drug-taking. Oh, you won't proclaim who you are and what you are doing (unless caught) because you know it is wrong and illegal.
Also, I see NOTHING humourous or intelligent about taking someone else's ADD drugs, incidentally. It may be "cool" to some but it 'aint intelligent...

Teenagers are literally prone to making actions without enough thought to consequences because of our hormones, and I'm not just saying that as an excuse, I'm just in a college level psychology class and that is a fact. I can't say I've never done something recklessly, and I think if adults think back to their teenage period then they can understand that, too. I'm a high schooler and I drink sometimes. However, I'm careful about my limits and I absolutely never drink and drive. I'm a good kid and a good student, and Jerry, if you think that I shouldn't get into the college of my choice because I (hypothetically) got caught drinking once, then I'm certainly confounded by your sense of justice.

Is the problem teenage drinking? Or is it why are teens drinking?

The students may be able to answer this, or maybe they don't really know. They may think they know, or they may know why they do it themselves, but the underlying cause is probably more complex. It may have something to do with stress, with too much money to spend, too little to do, or just doing it because they think or assume everyone else is doing it so they join in just to be cool or one of the crowd.

The thing is, not all kids are drinking. I would hazard a guess that the actual number drinking is a lot less than many writing here assume. What can be done to stop them drinking? Obviously, school dances are too regulated so they are unpopular, but why? Is it anything to do "freak" dancing?

Or should we be looking at what else our kids could be doing? Do they go to the movies and drink? Do they go bowling and drink? Do they go ice skating and drink? Are there activities going on where the non-drinkers are going and having a good time without alcohol? Is it just a certain sub-section of our teens who are not able to have a good time without alcohol?

It is time we looked beyond the headlines to find out what is and what is not going on.

Thanks for clearing that up student, I do disagree in some aspects, as I said. It is illegal in California to drink underage, it doesn't really matter what happens around the world as far as that goes, it isn't totally relevant. What is relevant is that even if drinking in a moral sense is not "wrong", doing so is still lawfully "wrong" and has reasonable grounds for punishment beyond letting people go without a scratch on their record. That said, it's going to happen no matter what so unless the police tell us high school students what they are going to do, and then enforce it consistently. There won't be any change at all until that happens.

As to anonymous, it might sound condescending, but I will say that this is exactly what makes teenagers do this type of stuff such as drinking and whatever else you care to bring up. Adults treating high school students without an ounce of respect for where they are coming from. You clearly don't understand the social issues with the argument, and while what I said in my first point is more aligned with the adult view being that I myself don't take part in said drinking, I can reasonably conclude that there is enough reason behind their actions due to the ignorance and unwillingness of adults to work with their children to come to a state of responsibility and respect that both sides can agree upon. On the other hand, parents of the children who drink socially often give far too much responsibility to the child and therefore, the child abuses it because the adult doesn't recognize the consequences of their action of giving said minor a car to drive or the permission to go out on the weekend.

All I have to say is THANK YOU "LOL." Now why can't everyone please be as level-headed and understanding?

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

Anonymous and others, I think Junior #3 got right to the root of the problem. Obviously adults and teens disagree on a few issues, but adults shouldn't dismiss student opinion just because we are young. I think what you are taking as condescending is actually just teenagers trying to get their voices heard in an organized and coherent manner. If you look at the message board, it seems the adults are having some condescension issues as well...
sincerely,
a "condescending" "hyperventilating" "spoiled brat"

Kids will drink. PERIOD. Parents need to begin to educate their children in how to drink in moderation. As for the Palo Alto teens they need to control their intake and drink responsibly. If they had been aware of their body's capacity this situation never would have occurred in the first place.

Well, thanks Senior #3 (And by the way, Senior/Junior #- sounds terribly cliche), if it was that easy, it would've already been solved. Much more complex than anyone can argue here. As to Person... if the police starting issuing death sentences to everyone who was caught drinking underage, I'm fairly sure kids wouldn't drink, and if they still did, the problem is far greater than even I imagine.

Of course, that would be impossible, and thus my claim that the police need to come up with a punishment, present to us, the high school students, and consistently enforce it and make it apparent to the public that they are enforcing it. How they do this, is another argument altogether, and one which I would take the side that it would be impossible to enforce, but whatever.

It's just another day in Palo Alto...

Wow ... this harks back for me. Last year of high school I sometimes ran with a group of kids in high school two of my good friends who had major alcohol problems that started at this age, and got a look at some other more hardcore virtual criminals. However, it was obvious to all at the time and it would have happened anyway. In the group that I knew fortunately over many years there were no serious accidents or crimes.

It was fun as a kid to hang out at the parks after hours and socialize, but it was also a different time - ie. pre-cocaine time - pre-gun times. Alcohol and pot were the drugs of choice, and most of the kids I knew did not have problems with them. In my generation it was pretty tame ... well, except for burning up strips of the fences in the barbecue pits at the parks which was vandalism. As I was moving out of this stage the kids that were moving it did have a lot more drugs and violence and crime ... in the late 70's and early 80's.

I can only try to imagine what goes on these days.

The kids that did have a problem had them for a long time, but almost all of them grew up to be productive citizens - at least the ones I knew. I just did not hang out with the hardcore druggies or alcoholics. Many of them came to the attention of the police, but I don't recall it being publicized in the papers?

I don't know what to say about this in this day and age. Things are different though today.

Somehow what is really needed is to find the people who really do have a problem, past just teenage rebellion and having fun, and give them some help, attention, services. Does it work?

When it moves into crime, I was and am in total sympathy with the police, you gotta stop them and come down hard because the bottom line is to protect the people of the city. Several kids drove drunk and did really stupid things.

There are an awful lot of crimes lately in Palo Alto, and possibly more to come. It's good that the security guard called the police on these kids.

I wonder if someone from the police or emergency services can comment on the seriousness historically of this behavior? I think it is mostly a few bad apples who spoil it for everyone.

I don't think drinking is an activity teens in Palo Alto partake in to simply preoccupy themselves, that's absurd. The citations issued that night are undoubtedly a result of teenage drinking, but teenage drinking won't change anytime soon. Let the idiots make fools of themselves, get arrested, and jeopardize their futures.


Cheers

alright, I feel like this poor dead horse has been beaten enough, but here's what I gather out of this entire feed.
Obviously the points have been made. Parents believe that teenagers are irresponsible and, in some cases, spoiled rotten. Teenagers think that the parents have come to the conclusion that they have ruined their futures and that an immediate stop to drinking will incur. Lose lose situation everyone!
I have to make a serious point here though, alcohol and pot are the abusive substances of choice in Palo Alto. I don't know what circles some of you adults are running in, but if you honestly believe that many teenagers are abusing hardcore drugs such as cocaine you are completely out of touch. Yes, the teens of Palo Alto may be at times a bit spoiled and entitled, but they are not stupid. Teenagers know that drinking is risky behavior. Half the thrill of drinking is the trouble that they may get into! Rebellion is part of being a teenager, as I assume all adults would know, because I am pretty sure no one popped out of the womb in their forties. Cracking down harder on drinking will only make kids want to drink more, the risk is an addiction in itself.
Finally, the notion that these kids who have received citations deserve to have their future ruined is absolutely absurd. Have you forgotten that life is about making mistakes? Last time I checked, there is not a single person on the planet who is perfect. It's time to take ourselves out of the Palo Alto Bubble for at least ten seconds to see that the community has a tendency to blow minor issues way out of proportion. I get it, the crime scene in PA is pretty low, its obvious that things like this will make huge waves.
I don't care what anyone says, there were plenty of responsible kids at that party. If there weren't, there would have been deaths, not hospital visits. Kids drink, it is the unfortunate reality of our generation (as well as the generations before us, which include EVERYONE in this feed). I'm certainly not condoning underage drinking. I agree that it is irresponsible. But this incident is not the end of the world. It happened, it's over, lets please put it to rest.

Honestly it sounds like everything worked as it was supposed to. The bar bouncer called the cops on the kids that were overdoing it, and that is the right thing to do.

They were out of control enough to get caught, so they are going to get evaluated, duh. What's wrong with that? We cannot have drunk kids doing things that are dangerous to themselves and others.

I agree there are lots of kids that drink and smoke pot, as there have been for decades now. How many major incidents have their been. If so, then we are not doing a bad job.

Just learn how to do what you do and not have it affect other people negatively. It is those that seek or draw negative attention that bump into the system. Most kids can handle their stuff.

WORD ANON.

The Paly Voice wrote a very relevant article about a similar dance that was cancelled because of concerns about underage drinking. Web Link

Look, if you're going to publicize an article for the whole city to read, you might want to get your facts straight. I don't think it's any of yours or the rest of Palo Alto's business to post this. It's extremely ignorant and immature and it's not yours or the rest of the community's business. It's simply the parent's and the kids. As if they aren't aware and as if they haven't faced enough embarrassment. Find something better to do with your life. Thank you.

Senior -- All facts in the story are as reported by the Palo Alto Police Department.

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

Well I know for a fact that two girls were sent to the hospital so clearly the PAPD isn't as well I formed as they perhaps should be.

Why is this even a news story? They weren't driving. They didn't hurt anybody. We need more real news in Palo Alto.

Some of the posters here remind me of my parents and friend's parents when we experimented with binge drinking in our teen years. We all turned into responsible adults....well...that might be debatable.

I know my teens drink. I tell them:

1. Never drink and drive, or ride with someone who is drunk (this message seems to be getting through to many teens)

2. Don't binge drink or do shots

3. Never take a drink that you haven't poured yourself and kept control of (risk of date rape drugs; more of an issue at colleges, I think; I know of incidents at Stanford and Berkeley last year).

My kids tell me that kids don't want to drink in moderation - getting a nice buzz isn't the goal -- rather the goal is to GET DRUNK. Why? Because being DRUNK is fun, they say. We need to redefine FUN.

We should take the shotgun approach: better education about drinking risks, better supervision by parents and others, alternative activities for teens, etc. None of these things individually or even all together will stop teens from drinking, but they may result in a decrease in drinking.

The part of the brain that provides judgment isn't fully developed until age 25.

For some teens, drinking is more than just social; it becomes an addiction. Know the difference and get help if needed (don't hide your head in the sand.)

What's a parent to do? Be realistic. Talk to your teens. Talk to other parents. Set realistic expectations with your kids. Explain natural consequences. Follow through on any rules and consequences that you establish. Model responsible drinking. Hope for the best.

Well, I have a teenager who is female. Females are generally much smarter than males, but although she is intelligent and worldly and doesn't touch alcohol, she makes so many stupid, idiotic and plainly dangerous decisions that put herself and others in danger, that I shudder just thinking of the decision making process of male teenagers.

Having read these comments, I am curious and want to ask the high schoolers who are reading/posting here: In the comments that high schoolers drink/smoke or try it (by the way, drinking/smoking in the teenage years is NOT limited to Palo Alto), some kids said they drink/smoke because there is nothing else to do. In the "give them something better to do" category, what would you like to have available to do as an alternative to a night drinking/smoking? Are there certain things to do that if you had this choice it would outweigh drinking/smoking? I'm not referring to parents saying kids should read/study/see a movie etc. I interested in an honest high schooler's opinion about what activity would outweigh drinking/smoking, if any.

The elephant in the room is that our overall approach to alcohol and age limits is rooted in fear and Puritanism. Our kids are not "educated" about alcohol because as a society we've made it a taboo until they're adults. So, again, as a society we've thrown down the gauntlet and, of course, the kids are going to pick it up and drink -- often to excess -- because we've made it a big deal.

The only real solution is to make it not a big deal. My 16-year-old daughter ordered her first legal beer with me in Munich this summer -- Germany and France have a 16-year-old age limit for ordering wine and beer in a restaurant. This gives parents a window of opportunity to educate their children about alcohol and its effects while they still have some ability to influence. This is a nuanced approach -- and lord knows the US generally can't handle that -- as these same kids cannot legally buy wine and beer at a store to take out until they are 18.

Only when this country was guilted into lowering the age to 18 during the Vietnam war under the really-hard-to-argue-with-logic that we can draft you and have you die, but, "no beer for you, sonny," did we trend in the European direction. But the Puritan right eventually rolled it back to 21 on a state-by-state basis. (See Teaparty for its current instantiation.)

Feel free to disagree with me but the increasingly draconian response to anything related to teens and "underage" drinking isn't just futile, it approaches psychotic. Pass another, stricter law and your just going to get the same result -- only with more kids showing criminal activity on their records when they become adults.

What's the point of that?

Daniel, looking at your misandrist comments I shudder to think about your decision making processes.

Capbreton, I think you're right on.

Smoking weed in moderation is perfectly fine... If you don't agree then you should watch
Web Link
As to an alternative to drinking alcohol the city should make the curfew for parks until midnight, or just get rid of the curfew altogether. Teenagers are all about being rebellious when we are around our peers or free from our parents. Another suggestion would be to build a skatepark that has lights, that would attract many teens instead of spending money on nonsense (re-doing the Art building...). Another suggestion would be to open a late night teen recreation center with minimal staff. Palo Alto is a very vague city for teens, and there is absolutely nothing appealing to do besides drinking/smoking at night time.

A comment to "bouncer" .... you want the DA to charge whoever supplied the booze to these teens? I'd bet they took it right from their parent's stash. PA parents are too busy being CEO's, lawyers and doctors to pay much attention to what their kids are really up to. I think a more realistic preventative approach is better alcohol and drug abuse education in the PA schools. Last time I looked, there was not a K-12 health curriculum in PAUSD. We can't expect busy parents who have their heads in the sand to educate their children. Most of them think "It's not my kid!" anyway, so the school district is left to pick up the pieces. Let's talk about funding a comprehensive, developmental health curriculum!

Capbreton has it right.

And if we raise the driving age to above the drinking age, that would also make a lot of sense.

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff].

Some teens will drink no matter what - parents can help reduce this by:

discuss drinking and its effects with your child
be aware of what liquor is in your home, make it hard to get to, notice if it is gone
be awake and available when your child gets home late at night (I love hearing stories from middle school kids about their older siblings stumbling in late at night when their parents are asleep or out)
keep track of your prescriptions and that of your kids

The schools already have drug and alcohol awareness programs in middle and high school

We have an unhealthy attitude toward alcohol and the above stream just reflects that. Most of the adults criticizing the students experimented with alcohol when they were underage, and are being hypocritical. It is ridiculous that an 18 year old is an adult in all ways except alcohol consumption. Not allowing parents to occasionally serve wine in their home to their older kids under 21 hinders the development of responsible drinking habits.

This note I am writing is for all the Palo Alto parents that read this article. I am a student at Palo Alto High School and I was one of the kids that was cited. As it has previously been discussed, teenage students will continue to drink. The night of the party when I chose to get drunk, I was fully aware of the consequences that could be put on me.
Looking back on why I chose to drink, one of the major reasons was because it was something my parents did not approve of. As a teen, we get adreneline from doing things that are against our parents. My solution to the problem of kids getting completely and utterly wasted is for parents to allow their kids to drink alcohol in the privacy of their homes. This would allow for a noncrazy and nondangerous pleasure for the kids. We all know, whether we like it or not, that teens are going to drink. So parents, they can either drink safely and in their own homes or they can get completely wasted and come home at 11 at night with a citation. It's up to you

I too have long advocated a drinking age of 18, for the same reasons as sadcommentary above. On the other hand, I agree with posters who believe that, as long as it is the law, teen drinkers should face responsibility for their actions (e.g., be arrested if found drunk in public). I have explained both of these positions to my children, the youngest of whom is now in college and finding out that's the way it is there: two of her friends have been taken to jail when found drunk in public. It really seems to be effective in reducing the incidence of "drunk walking" there. And, while everyone acknowledges that drunk driving is reprehensible (especially because of the danger to others), according to the authors of Superfreakonomics, the chances of being killed while drunk walking are 5-8 times as great as while drunk driving.

Paly Kid

So if your parents allowed you to drink at home, provided you with the alcohol, would you drink at home? You said that the reason you drank was because your parents disapproved, but if they provided the alcohol would that take away your drinking away from home or not?

you ALL need to get a life.

were going to drink.
GET OVER IT.
there is nothing you can do to stop us.

It would not take away my drinking from home but this would be known by my parents. The difference would be that I would not have to lie to them and would not be nearly as likely to get completely wasted but rather do it just for the social activity. I have talked to numerous classmates and they have all agreed that they think this would work.

Paly Kid: nice reasoning. I'm sure your parents don't want you to do crack either, or meth, or numerous other things. Don't blame your parents for your poor decisions. Take some responsibility.

Maybe when you get older and have kids of your own, you'll understand why they don't want you to do some of those things.

Or maybe, your life will be truly affected by a poor judgement made by yourself, or someone else drinking alcohol.

But, go ahead, go get that adrenaline rush from being a rebel. You seem to have it all figured out already.

I wonder if the police would have treated 11 males from East Palo Alto the same way. Or what about the Ramona street crowd at 2am? Don't those guys usually spend a night in jail to let it wear off?

Well you must not have read my post very carefully because I did not blame my parents at all. "The night of the party when I chose to get drunk, I was fully aware of the consequences that could be put on me". notice how i said I made the choice and in no way to I implicate my parents. All I was doing was making a suggestion to parents that I think would work. And your point about meth is completely unrelevant.

I wouldn't mind having events that were actually fun to go to. At this point, the only things that I'd consider going to would be Illusions events. School dances and events are horrible; the music and DJs are usually bad, and the staggering amount of parents and other chaperones there would make anybody feel uncomfortable.

I agree with the commenter above who suggested a place with minimal staff for the teenagers to hang out at nights. It would be pretty cool to have a place where teens could go, either for free or for a small charge, and be able to hang out together. There would only need to be a handful of supervisors, most of whom would preferably be in their teens or twenties.

Hanging out at home is uncomfortable, especially with large groups of friends, so hanging out at parks late at night seem like the best solution to many, including myself. Some idiots decide to light play-structures on fire, making it even harder for us to find places to spend our weekend nights. Everybody likes to go out every once in a while, but most of us have nowhere to actually go.

The only way to really prevent kids from drinking is to lock them in their rooms all night, or follow them wherever they go.

Parents, get over it.

Students, respect yourselfs. Keep it together.

to everyone who has accused these kids of being spoiled, reckless and immature:

First of all, get your facts right before you make an accusation because majority of you parents are making things up i order to give you two cents into this comment section. Not only do you not know what happened, who the kids were or what the party was like, but you simply don't understand that it isnt like all of these kids are bad kids who are looking to get drunk every weeekend. these are good kids and good students who just wanted to have fun and im sure none of the "spoiled teens" you reffered to meant to get intoxicated to the point where they were taken to the hospital.

Thank you anonkid1. I believe you got it exactly right.These Palo alto parents that dont even know the situation have no right to go around blatantly insulting those of us who do. The kids at this party really are good kids that just want to have a little fun. I'm sorry to all of you who don't think fun is acceptable in this town

Jim H,

For you to bring crack and meth into this simple article about 10 out of 100 - 150 or so kids binge drinking is completely rediculous. Who do you think you are? do you seriously think that because these kids are binge drinking before a dance that they are bound to do meth and become a screw up? Have some rational thought displayed in your next piece, if you choose to write one. Thank you, I appreciate it.

They are adults anonkid1, and as much as you might believe that there isn't any harm in "fun" you still have to be mindful of what lawfully is set as a limit. While you might disagree with said limit, aka 21 before you can drink, you still can't outright deny it. I would wager to say that "spoiled kids" applies to most everyone, if you take a look outside of the bubble that is Palo Alto. I myself would consider myself lucky to be blessed to be living in such a community, despite the problems that are here.

I mean, whatever, I have a view that isn't aligned with either side, but as I've said over and over, there won't be any change until we get consistent crackdowns (which is impossible) and punishment that is legal under the law.

It isn't a matter of what the law SHOULD be, rather what it is right now, and therefore we shouldn't be kicking the hand that feeds us so to speak.

All these adults needa chill. The reason theyre angry is cuz theyve forgot what fun is.

the condescending and rude comments left on this page make me sick. These teens have all accepted the consequences of their actions, and are trying to move on with their lives. Who is everyone here to be judging them and judging the teenage community as a whole? Typical Palo Alto, ostracizing the people who make errors in judgement. My comment to all the people who are continuing to judge them? leave them alone. I know these kids, they are all being severely punished by their parents and no one is being let off easy. They are not entitled, spoiled, or any of the other awful things that people have posted on this feed. Move on to something else that you can prey on.

Paly dances sucked and students were looking for things to do (which a lot of you are suggesting people come up with), however, we, as students, turned to private dances, and look where that got us...No matter what activities there are (carnivals, movie nights... whatever) kids are either going to drink at them or independently.

Students know the risk of drinking (getting caught and/or getting ill or dying) but they see more incentives to drink. Whatever the reason (peer pressure, nothing else to do, etc) teens have, currently are and will continue to drink. Honestly, an open relationship with parents and adults will make teen drinking safer. Believe it or not, teens don't like lying to their parents. Instead of making their kids come up with reasons not to drive, parents should be appreciative that their kids aren't drinking and driving and let them leave their car at home. We are all against drunk driving and yet often kids are too afraid of calling their parents because they or their driver has had something to drink so they just get in the car in order to get home by curfew. Parents are forcing their students to make poor decisions rather than being honest about drinking. Rather than lying about where they are, it would be much easier on teens and parents to be honest about students' whereabouts and not try to conceal the fact that they're at a party. Parents, please try to encourage your kids to make good decisions instead of forcing them to lie and put themselves in danger.

Thank you very much senior citizen for really understanding from the kids perspective. Us kids are not trying to do any harm. There is absolutely nothing that can be done about the past and so any parent who doesn't have a kid involved needs to mind your own business and stop criticizing because you are not helping at all

It is at times like this when I think it is most essential to realize that our current system of law is inadequate for dealing with societal problems like these. It is not a question of life, it is a question of morals. This is why I believe that the only way to view this incident is to view it through a legal framework that really upholds the fundamental aspects of human morality: Sharia Law.

In the Koran itself, it is written: "drinking wine is forbidden for you". Although the punishment outlined, flogging, may seem harsh, that is not the point. These wayward children are already beyond hope: there is nothing on this earth that can save them now. Therefore, it is logical to sacrifice them in a manner that shall make an example of them, so that future generations will not be so morally confused.

I never said that there wasn't any harm, junior #3. In fact i clrealy stated that there was harm done, my point was that the kids did not mean any harm whether you believe it or not. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

i completely agree with paly kid. Who are you to say that we are beyond hope. I'll have you know that one of my friends got cited and he is a 4.0 grade student involved in the school community aswell as sports. If you knew any of these kids before this incident you would call them all around great kids. But since they have made one minor mistake in life, you decide to throw around statements like "they are beyond hope". What is your reasoning behind this at all? nevermind, don't answer that because i know that i will recieve an ignorant reply because you are so much better than us, obviously. Honestly, you are the one that has no hope if you are criticizing a teenage kid for something that you weren't involved in what so ever. You made a judgment call based on mistake that these kids made in a voulnerable time in their lives, then proceeded to say we have no hope in life. reconsider what even brought that thought to your mind, then maybe find a life if you are done spreading hate to people you dont know. thank you.

SENIOR #2 is the best! they are 35x more correct than anyone else here...

Whatever, I never said that there was harm done, so I don't know where you got that notion, I mean when people end up in the hospital, harm is done, which you've acknowledged, as have I.

On the contrary, I am a junior, mind you like I've said, I wouldn't consider myself friends with the people who did this, but I have friends who do similar stuff.

I also am not saying that the kids are getting off easy, but if you think that society can really let people off the hook for something that is against the law, then I believe that that isn't right. If you've noticed in my previous posts, which are quite up there now that this topic is really really really long... Then you can kinda see what I'm getting at.

1.) Drinking won't stop unless people enforce it consistently
2.) People cannot enforce it consistently no matter what
3.) It's their choice to disobey the law.

I could care less that you choose to risk whatever, and I'm not saying that drinking is a bad thing, just stating what is set as society as guidelines. Society tells us that this isn't acceptable so whatever.

How strict/harsh the punishment is up to whoever, and if I was taking part in it knowing the risk involved, we are old enough to serve whatever punishment there is, we understand the risk taken.

Whatever.

are you saing you want your friends to get "cracked down" on? because youve stated that "there won't be any change until we get consistent crackdowns", and "I have friends who do similar stuff.
"

Not really, it's just that if you want to argue with the adults, then you're being unreasonable as far as what you're requesting for finding middle ground.

It isn't "right" but I don't really care what happens, it's a risk that they take, it isn't really my problem. I'm simply saying that we should take responsibility for whatever happens and not blame it on teenageness because that's just childish and encourages the attitude that adults have.

As one of my friends says;
"A friend will bail you out of jail, a true friend would tell you man you messed up"

Im not requesting for middle ground im asking the parents who arent involved to stop criticizing teenage kids that they dont know. is that too much to ask?

junior #3. If you don't care, don't judge.

I guess not, it's just that you were denying that you didn't think that they should get in trouble and that parents were enough.

w/e I don't have enough time for this anymore, I'll come back later.

Teens need a reason to get together and have common things to talk about, Stanford was wise in its early years to ban alcohol within 1 mile of Stanford.
We do not need prohibition-- we need sobriety--2 drinks is the advise of the USMC if you work the next day

Interesting - Sharon is now quoting the United States Marine Corps' drinking advice?

Attempting to find a wrong/right result seems futile. Within rule breaking of laws - ordinances or violations there seems to exist "its own set of decorum/etiquette". Adults who drink and drive home "successfully" are just luckier than others and definitely have more moxie than young minors.

It’s tougher to get away with what other generations got away with. 15-35 years ago - Police Officers - threatened us with - "we will just take you home" - which to "some of us" were worse than the alternatives.

Later, while at San Jose State one night at a concert my son walked back to his car to retrieve a jacket. He got his jacket but also noticed an empty beer bottle wedged underneath his rear tire. He picked it up (suds at bottom of bottle) and was walking towards a trash receptacle when a SJSU bicycle cop came upon him. Result was Minor In Possession. At a court hearing the judge admonished him and embarrassed him for his MIP offense - while the court was PACKED with adult criminals charged with other various crimes.

Moral: We adults need to (somehow) afford our kids/minors a better quality of young life. "Back then" - we offended society and laws without the harshness of today’s consequences.

Outsider/Foster City Resident

Teens: When you drink, know your limits and know the people you are with. Here's a very sad story about a college student who did not.
Web Link

Nothing said here or elsewhere will decrease teen drinking. In this ultra-materialistic, ultra-competitive shallow society that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing, teens instinctively sense the absurdity and pointlessness of it all and behave nihilistically. Additionally, we need to understand that teens are basically unguided missiles, most of which will be fitted by nature with control systems around the age of 25, lucky for us and them.

Teens and young people in Italy do not binge drink.
In Italy controlled drinking is a part of life and drunks are treated as pariahs.
In the UK teen binge drinking is an epidemic.
Public drunkenness is visible in every town center on the weekends and is seen as socially acceptable.
In Palo Alto/Stanford we have done a good job of discouraging smoking by young people--- we should apply the same approach to excessive drinking--- by portraying drunks as pariahs and losers.

"Teens and young people in Italy do not binge drink.

In Italy controlled drinking is a part of life and drunks are treated as pariahs."

Sharon does not know what she is talking about
Web Link

" Adding to legislative efforts to control alcohol consumption is a growing concern about binge drinking among Italian youth that has raised a �social alarm� in the country, said Mr. Giovanardi. In the last 20 years, he said, some 10,000 people under the age of 25 have died from alcohol-related traffic accidents and thousands more have been injured."

and

�The problem of alcoholism is growing in Italy because we have severed the link between food and drink � now, young people drink to get drunk,�

and

"Alcoholism rates in Italy have tripled since 1996 to the current rate of around 60,000, with just over 10 percent under 29 years of age, said Emanuele Scafato, director of the National Observatory on Alcohol at the National Institute of Health."

Maybe the drinking age should be taken into consideration. It is naive to believe that High School and College students are going to abide by the absurd drinking age of 21. By implementing such a harsh ruling on the children of the community, you are simply driving them to want to do it more often and more excessively. Children will drink as much of anything that they can get their hands on, simply because it is hard to come by and socially unacceptable. The majority of European countries have a drinking age of 16, so long as the alcohol % is lower than 15 (I.E. beer & wine). When drinking beer & wine it is much harder to drink oneself into oblivion/alcohol poisoning. Finally at 18, after the children have had some experience with "soft" alcohol, only then are they legally allowed to purchase "hard" alcohol. Not only do the children have 2 years to learn their limits with soft alcohol before moving on to drinking hard alcohol, but they are also subject to a later driving age of 18, which allows for them to further understand their limit before they get behind a wheel.

On another note, I find it absurd that we are the only first world country that is willing to send 18 year old "boys and girls" to war before they have a chance to enjoy a beer with their family or friends. Is it really so that a 18 year old is responsible enough to join the military and fire at other human beings with automatic assault rifles, but they are not responsible enough to indulge in alcohol?

Parents, I understand your concern, but the easiest way to control your children's drinking habits is to do so in a safe environment and with a mutual understanding of what is too much.

Just to help put some logic into the thinking here, by using a different example, and trying to put this into the correct "civics" perspective: the speed limit on Oregon Expressway is 35mph. The speed limit on Embarcadero is 25mph. I think it is ridiculous that that Embarcadero is not 35 when Oregon is 35. But, if I choose to drive 35 on Embarcadero, I will/might get a speeding ticket, regardless of my opinion or the logic of 25mph on that road. The solution is either drive 25 on Embarcadero, drive 35 because I think it is more logical (and bear the consequences of a ticket if I get caught), only drive on Oregon, or, in the American way, lobby/contact the appropriate legislative body which set the law and try to get it changed. We live in a free country where personal opinion and thought is valued. And there are ways to engage conversations about what the best laws should be. I hope the high schoolers can take from this blog that very soon they will be adults where the process of government values their opinion, and they need to be prepared to have well informed logic in making decisions about using their opinions well. And they also need to be prepared to understand the value of the rule of law. And when they don't like a law, how they should best respond.

We are generally not in favor of alcohol ignition devices--- but a strong case can be made that any car to be driven by an under 21 yr old should have such devises -- paid for by the alcohol business.
On campuses and in the military the drinking age should be lowered to 18 yrs and alcohol should be seen for what it is -- a drug-- a legal drug--- like tobacco.
Part of the problem is that popular figures like, Christopher Hitchens Web Link encourage binge drinking and smoking among young people-- he is now dying of cancer--- but teens feel they are invincible.

Whatever people may feel about Glenn Beck -- he did turn his life around from a suicidal drunk and a dope addict to a multi millionaire in a few years by giving up booze and dope and committing to Christianity.
The reduce smoking campaign worked in Palo Alto/ Stanford--- how many credible people do we see smoking on campus? none-- apply the same approach to booze-- a two dink limit at bars, parties and events.
If someone wants to live in a fish tank then they should do it in hotel, at home and not drive--- and pay extra health insurance premiums

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

The tobacco companies and alcohol companies market to teens because they want to get them early and make money.
In Stanford/Palo Alto we have dealt pretty well with the tobacco problem--- you cannot buy tobacco anywhere on Campus and drunkenness is looked upon like severe body odor-- no booze at Stanford Stadium for the masses -- good idea.
Alcohol is different from tobacco-- the dangers of alcohol are dose related-- moderate drinkers are apparently healthier than teetotalers over the long term.
The issue is to discourage getting drunk.
There are a number of approaches
1/ Raising the tax on alcohol progressively-- the stronger the booze the higher the tax.
2/ Holding stores and bars responsible for selling booze to obviously intoxicated patrons
3/ A culture of a 2 drink limit at public events-- if people want to get handicapped they should do it at home or in a hotel room and not drive.
4/ Role models for youths who emphasize the 2 drink limit-- a lot of rap music glorifies intoxication-- they should be held responsible.
In the old days country music used to glorify drunkenness-- but not anymore-- how did they change the message?
5/ Smokers are social pariahs in Stanford/Palo Alto and are virtually unemployable-- yet young peoples Face Book pages are full of scenes of young people drinking to intoxication-- Face Book should play some role in changing that culture and young people should understand that colleges and employers will access their Face Book sites and make decisions based upon that evidence of their character.
6/ There must be an app for that-- it would be easy for smart phones to have an application that would let people know when they are close to intoxication -- but a 2 drink limit is a simple rule of thumb.

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

I see the editors are shielding their staff member/ agent provocateur again from criticism by deleting completely any comments that question the veracity of her postings.
My last posts questioned the veracity of her comments above regarding Stanford/Palo Alto and tobacco/alcohol, given that she provides no proof of any of her claims.
Being a Stanford employee, I can say that there are still plenty of people that smoke on campus--our admin assistant is a smoker and is certainly not "unemployable".
I also pointed out that in a previous post regarding drinking in Italy, Sharon once again posted her unsubstantiated "facts"--I quickly showed them to false by providing a link to story that showed her comments to be false.
Why were those comments deleted completely? The editors ask posters to be honest--if a poster is making false claims--then they should be called out for making them.
Unfortunatley , for some reason the editors of this forum allow "Sharon" to get away with whatever she wants to say--factual or not and delete any criticism of her postings.

Alcohol/recreational drug use and sex are two main issues (often combined) that confront our teens and us as parents. As parents, we worry that by having honest discussions with our teens, we may give them the idea that we are condoning or encouraging them to engage in these activities. Someone wrote that the school should do more about alcohol/recreational drug awareness, I don't think that our teens are going to be open to this and learn from it.

It is apparent from some of the parent comments on this forum that there should be a class for the parents to attend to learn more about how to have open communication with their teens about these issues. We as parents need more tools to break through the cold shoulder and silent treatments our teens give us when we bring up these subjects.

As parents we may have forgot how we acted as a teenagers in school (I shudder to think of the things I did) but just saying don't do it because it is bad for you doesn't work very well. Has it ever?

In fact, the 2007 Stanford Health and Lifestyle Assessment revealed that only four percent of 1,088 employees surveyed over a two-year period smoke.
This compares to 23.9 percent of American men and 18.1 percent of American women ages 18 and older are smokers.

Stanford has very strict on alcohol also with serious penalties for student people driving even below if the legal limit.
The new policy now responds: “Conduct that poses a risk of significant harm to people or property will generally violate this standard. Driving while under the influence of alcohol or drugs is an example of such conduct.”

It goes on to say that “meeting a legal standard is not necessary for finding a violation of the Fundamental Standard,” according to Chambers.

“It thus allows for panels to consider the intricacies of individual cases when they determine responsibility, rather than outside court proceedings,” Chambers said.

During the 2008-09 school year, Judicial Affairs panelists heard 12 Fundamental Standard cases, “most” involving DUIs, according to Office of Judicial Affairs statistics. Nine students were found responsible for Fundamental Standard violations.

Most students found responsible for DUI-related violations face a one-quarter suspension, 20 to 50 hours of community service, the loss of driving or parking privileges on campus for some time and possible restitution.

“I personally believe the new wording is a positive step,” Chambers said. “Rather than put the spotlight on the nitty-gritty details of DUI case law, it instead focuses on the responding student’s actual behavior.”

“We do not ask, ‘was 0.08 reached?’” Chambers said, referring to the legal blood alcohol limit for drivers at least 21 years old. “But instead, ‘Did the behavior cause a risk of significant harm?’ This goes to the heart of the Fundamental Standard by putting the emphasis on the action itself, and encouraging students to respect the order, morality and rights of others.”Web Link

PA students should be reminded that a drug or alcohol charge can end their college admission prospects.

I have never taken a sip of alcohol in my life though I have been to many Illusions dances and have witness what happens.

There are many people who do show up drunk though Illusions does a security check to ensure that you cannot bring alcohol or any other substance illegal or not into the party.

Illusions will only sell Red Bull to you during these teen dances so therefore the club is by no means responsible for teens access to alcohol.

Teens are going to drink, it has now become so common that it is almost impossible for any form of authority to break this cycle. What's important is taking precautions about where your kids drink. If Illusions shuts down kids are going to be driving to house parties all around the Bay Area and coming home drunk, is that what you want?

It's obviously understandable that parents are concerned with their children drinking at such a young age but taking a place like Illusions away will only cause more problems...

It seems like Illusions has no liability in this matter.
@ Stanford football games we do not serve booze to the masses yet they drink in the parking lots before and after the game-- Stanford has no liability for that.
Stanford has done a good job of eliminating smoking and is coming down hard on drunks by treating it as an individual responsibility with consequences for the students career and earning potential.
Bars and stores in Palo Alto could adopt the similar policies, do not serve drunks or druggies -- all bar men know the signs-- it is not rocket science--

The main danger is DUI driving,otherwise drunks and dopers are just a danger to themselves and friends.

Church groups should deal with the issue of teens needing to socialize on the weekend with clubs and games.

Here is a thread which tried to list safe places for teens to hangout. There is a link to a previous thread which lists churches with youth activities.

The thread is short which presupposes that there are not many safe places for teens in Palo Alto.

The link to the thread about churches with youth activities is much longer. It presupposes that the churches are doing quite a bit to help teens find somewhere to hangout and have fun.

Here is the link

Web Link

Good-- the local churches need to take these issues seriously and provide constructive alternatives for teenagers

Am I the only one that realizes that the only reason that teens go wasted to these dances is because it gives them a chance to get away from all of tghe stress in schools and they feel edgy in a sense because its against the law. The more strict parents are about these things and the more controlling they are, then the more likely teens aree going to lie and do stupid things. I am so happy I got away from palo alto with all of the stressed out kids with their parents worried about them 24/7 and saying that their kids need to go to some ivy league school and get strfaight as to survive...