Signs for parking should also show where to park bikes, those are often not easy to find. Also why don't the signs say free parking (for 2 hours) as often people think garage parking costs money whereas lots are free.

Also,

"But America is not Europe, countered architect Tony Carrasco,"

And Palo Alto is not like other places in America. What doesn't work in other cities outside Silicon Valley could work here. Palo Alto is very different from mainstreet usa as our residents come from and have visited all over the world and experienced pedestrian malls and know how to use them.

"Last year, a group of Stanford University graduate students led a drive to promote the idea and received an endorsement from a scattering of local businesses and city officials."

That is damning with faint praise.

The good outcome is that they got their college credits and Bob Sutton got to write a few papers on the topic.

European analogies do not fit as we are not a medieval town, like Cambridge or Oxford etc


A Pedestrian mall is a non starter for a main entrance to campus, and the delivery trucks have to get to Palm Drive too.

Double glazing on the store front windows would cut down the noise for the bike store.

I agree that downtown needs more safe bicycle parking, as well as signs telling people where the bicycle parking is. There are too many bicycle thefts in this city. Safe and secure bicycle parking is a cheap way to encourage more people to bicycle to downtown stores and restaurants.

Melbourne, Australia has turned their entire Downtown into pedestrian only and they are not a medieval European town. If you want to get through Melbourne you have to take a ring road around it.

However, American's are tied to their cars, they can't possibly ride a bus or walk Downtown. So long as gasoline is so cheap in the U.S. you will never get Americans out of their cars.

So, while I'm driving I might as well go to Stanford Shopping Center where it's easy to park and the retail outlets have greater variety.

Last time we were there Melbourne it had a population of 3,806,092

Palo Alto has a population of 59395.

Equivalence does not exist, and comparisons are not valid.

Also as Melbourne is on the coast 50% of it borders the ocean-- so there is no ring road.-- splash

The experiences in CA, like Sacramento etc-- shows that pedestrian malls turn into economic dead zones, crime magnets and gin alleys.

First of all , the directional signs TO the parking structures are very small and hard to read, let alone find. Are Seniors leery of even going into the one on Bryant across from Avenidas due to the panhandlers frequenting the place? Ask the staff at Avenidas for an opinion.

Many people do not go to the May Fete Parade due to parking. We drive right into Bryant Garage about 9:30 and walk one-half block. No problem. But our close friends didn't even thing of that, and they've lived here for years. Give the parking garages some publilcity. It's almost as if the structure were invisibile.
Another problem: if a resident wants to eat breakfast, lunch, or dinner and a the ethic foods, downtown is fine. But shop? The shops are expensive. There are CVS and Walgreen's all over town with good parking. Why bother? Grocery stores. No use. But the big problem is sign publicity and having just two hours to shop, have lunch, etc. is ridiculous. My wife and her friends never had just a two hour lunch ever. They never go 'downtown'.

The rational solution is to have clearer signs to free parking,

how about free parking for those who take the train to SF?

When you calculate the time and cost at, this point driving makes more sense until they have mobile wifi on all trains and have the bullet stop at CA avenue.

Isn't Stanford Shopping Center effectively a pedestrian mall surrounded by a large parking lot? Does it work?

How would downtown be significantly different if it were turned into a pedestrian mall?

My recollection is that most of the traffic on University Avenue is unrelated to the business district, but simply using University Ave as a connector between 101 and El Camino, with overflow traffic using parallel streets despite efforts to discourage such. I don't recollect there being a credible proposal for handling current traffic for any sort of blockage on University. The article doesn't mention this problem. Did I miss something?

Additionally, based upon anticipated development in the area, the last projections I saw were for substantially increased congestion, including multiple of the intersections deteriorating to "failing" status.

On signage: This has been an ongoing battle for as long as I can remember. Caveat: My involvement has been primarily regarding south El Camino, which has similar problems.

The dominant view of the city government and the design community has been for signage that is so muted that it is not effective. It is a minuscule exaggeration to say that the rule is if a passing motorist is likely to _be_aware_of_ a sign, it is probably inappropriate; if that motorist can _read_ the sign, it most certainly is too tasteless for Palo Alto.

From time to time, the City has paid lip service to business vitality requiring better signage, but the decision on what to do gets dragged out until the businesses and residents are exhausted, and then the issue is quietly dropped.

> Jeff Selzer, general manager of Palo Alto Bicycles, said the noise
> from trucks and cars on University Avenue often makes it impossible
> for him to speak on the phone inside his business

And this from a guy that has a completely open front .. no glass wall, not front door .. just an open space onto the street.

I wonder if he wanted to conduct his business in the middle of the street if he would then start complaining about the fact that there were trucks and cars driving in his office space?

> Isn't Stanford Shopping Center effectively a pedestrian mall
> surrounded by a large parking lot? Does it work?

There are no non-retail businesses in the Stanford Mall. Not clear that people would go to Stanford Mall to get their taxes done, or to drop off dry cleaning, go to an ATM or get a haircut .. like they do in downtown Palo Alto.

What are the parking ordinances along University Blvd?

My husband and I have enjoyed visiting and shopping along the downtown, but we are always mindful of the two hour parking limits and the numerous meter maids who are recording license plates.

If we wanted to eat dinner and then attend a movie at the Stanford Theater, where could we park for MORE than two hours?

The 2 hour street parking limit only applies from 8am to 5pm on weekdays. And during those hours, you can get 3 hours by parking in one of the garages instead of on the street.

"Also as Melbourne is on the coast 50% of it borders the ocean-- so there is no ring road.-- splash"

Looks like someone was not really in Melbourne:
Web Link
Web Link

Maybe they missed the trip because they were talking with Tom Wolfe

Changing Hamilton and Lytton to one-way streets makes a lot of sense. One-way streets improve traffic flow and can handle more vehicles than 2-way streets and will encourage the Stanford trough-traffic to take those routes instead.

The city should also remove that blockade that prevents traffic from continuing straight from Alma Street to Sand Hill Road. That blockade just increases congestion on University Ave.

The only ped mall that I've seen work in the US is the 3rd St. Promenade in Santa Monica. But it does draw people from all over the LA County area. However, one HUGE difference for the ped malls that work --- they are 100% retail oriented. University Av has much more than retail going on --- banks, financial services, medical, office space. Comparing Univ. Ave. to other ped malls is an apples/oranges thing.

The whole purpose of the Alma/Sand Hill blockade is to force traffic onto University. Before that change, people were cutting through the N. PA neighborhood to get to either University at Middlefield, or fly down the PA Avenue or over to Willow. The point was to force traffic to Ravenswood Ave, University Ave, Embarcadero Rd or Oregon Expwy.

Anyone ask the businesses on Hamilton and Lytton how they would feel about a one-way road? My guess would be they wouldn't --- a one-way road kills flexible access. Plus a Univ Ped mall would cut off cross traffic on Bryant, Waverly, Cowper, etc. --- what about all those businesses?

A ped mall does not have to close off the cross-streets on University Ave. There would still be plenty of access to the business there.

What good is the parking when there are so few businesses left downtown? I drove around yesterday searching for a place to have lunch and the pickings were very slim. I would have stopped for a nice boutique, an inviting book store, a pleasant cafe, but I saw empty storefronts and little boxes trying to be restaurants. Downtown rents are too high and the whole place has a seedy depressing atmosphere. No need for parking.

> Claude Ezran, member of the city's Human Relations Commission
> and coordinator of last year's World Music Day in downtown Palo Alto,
> resurrected the "pedestrian mall" idea and argued that closing a
> portion of University Avenue to traffic would bring more foot-traffic
> and, hence, more business to local stores.

Why is Claude Ezran involved in this sort of discussion? He is not a store owner, he is not a city planner, he is not a property owner. He has never shown any sense of what it is to be "an American" .. and that comes through one more time with his suggestion that: "Palo Alto ought to be more like Europe".

Could someone help me out here: Why is there a two or three hour limit on parking anyway?

Is it to encourage people (under risk of a ticket and fine) to hurry up with their shopping and leave (in order to give others a parking spot)?

I have been in plenty of towns where parking is free -- which saves the city money from having to hire meter maids.

Nayeli - I believe the parking limit is to keep employees of downtown businesses from using up all the spaces. Imagine what parking might have been like when Facebook was headquartered downtown if there was no limit on the amount of time you could park! The parking is free - just has a time limit.

Hi Palo Alto Mom...

Ah, that makes perfect sense.

Yesterday, my husband and I went shopping along University Ave. We ate, purchased some things and walked around for a while. We made it back to our vehicle within the two hours, but I noticed a couple of meter maids were recording our license plates. At first, we were worried that we might have parked incorrectly (until we realized that these were parking enforcement officers).

What would have happened if we had been caught parking for ten minutes longer than the two hour limit? Would we have been exempt from a ticket if we were able to prove that we were dining and shopping...or would we have received a no-excuse fine?

The reason that I ask is because we were shopping and dining for nearly two hours anyway (with over an hour spent in the restaurant because the service was slow). We also had to have a phone serviced at the store on the street (which also took a half hour). It would be crazy to receive a fine for such a thing.

Years ago both Lytton and Hamilton were one-way streets, a couplet similar to Channing and Homer. Ask an old person why they changed it back. We have a poor institutional memory in this town.

Re Nayeli (post 2) on 2 hour parking:
To my knowledge, there is no "get out of jail free" provision for shoppers that exceed the 2-hour limit.

People expecting to be in the area more than 2 hours should use the garages, which have a 3-hour limit. This differential is an intentional choice by the City--and in line with practices in many other cities--to encourage more turnover in the parking on the street because street spaces are a scarce resource that is "more valuable" (psychologically) to customers who are making quick trips, and hence more valuable to the businesses.

As the article notes, the parking structures are underutilized. Knowing this, when I have to go to the U Ave area downtown, I rarely even bother to look for street parking but head for a structure because I know I will immediately find a space and even though I may have to walk a little further, I will likely get to my destination sooner than if I spent time hunting for a parking spot on the street.

Many cities on the peninsula have parking meters (often with a token parking fee like 50 cents/hour) in their downtown areas. That lets people know that the city is serious about enforcing the time limit. If people are whining about the time limit, the city should consider installing parking meters.

There is a parking lot map on the city web site. Why don't businesses just print it out and give them out to their customers? The city could help by changing the format to a normal paper size instead of the current oddball 21" x 9".

Hi Steve...

No one is "whining" about the time limit. It was merely a question about WHERE people can park and the rationale behind the two hour time limit.

Steve says: "the city should consider installing parking meters." Many years ago the City had parking meters, they were considered ugly and removed. It was easier to have a meter maid mark the tires.

What about handicapped drivers? The parking lots are an extra 1/2 block from University and that makes a big difference to a handicapped person, so they cruise the street around and around because driving, however slowly, is much less painful than walking.
Why aren't there more handicapped spaces on University Ave? I think there is one? Oh, but that might be California Ave. As the population ages we are going to have more and more handicapped people; we should deal with that.