How did she get to the island in the first place?

Who wrote the first paragraph? Are you or the news service training monkeys to put out press releases?

Wake up, Palo Alto Weekly. We need a little more information. What happened to the 5 W's , taught in every beginning Journalism class.

Palo Alto fire failed her. Gee the water rescue program has been a failure since it started?

Hundreds of thousands of dollars later? Gee.

Now the coast guard is the only rescue helicopter in the bay area. The only on with cable lifting ability.
Medical copter do not perform rescues? only pick victims up at the site of the responce?

MORE CITY OF PALO ALTO BS. Need help from CPA, LOOK?

Time for the baylands communities to invest in a two-person kayak?

You mean she was stuck in the Mud and no one else with half a brain would walk out there.

3 1/2 hours...that is shameful. No ingenuity at work.

My God!

Doesn't anyone proof read your stories?

Also, how did she get on the island?

What is that 'boat' at the Rinconada Park Fire Station? What good is it if it doesn't work?
Maybe instead of 'civic engagement' and other feel good Council priorities, we could get back to disaster provisions and training. This entire Keystone cops episode is ludicrous. And what was she doing out there in the first place? It wasn't really pitch black dark at 5:30 p.m.

Lets see, Crazy old fireman said. Your water rescue program is a JOKE, Huge was of money and time.

More of the city leaders sell you a huge load of BS, BUT who is going to tell you the truth?

More of a PROBLEM who is going to listen to the truth? Not many here. Oh did the person who sold this BS program to all GET A BONUS? a promotion?

Oh BTW even if the program was funded, It would not work.

Only daytime, line of sight, close to shore rescues. Not legal to do anything more.

Right now not legal to do anything?

I am surprised that an air cushion vehicle like the one PA was planning to buy was not available. The reason for not buying our own was the ready availability unit from another department. I am surprised the woman's age is given - she doesn't look a day over 47.

What is a "keysone cop"?

Walter that is not the reason. It was a joint program. Terrible plan.
One of those plans you just roll your eyes and say, here we go again.

keysone, keystone, Dumb and dumber. all the same

Oh BTW. The boat the city did buy, cost twice as much as the hovercraft that would of DONE the job.

So as Palo Alto Fire goes, Twice the cost, Without the service.

Kind of like light beer. Would not want to fill the services up?

"The various efforts to reach the stranded woman were described by one person on the Town Square forum as a "keystone cops" adventure."

"What is a "keysone cop"?"

Keystone Kops were a bunch of hyperactive slapstick bumblers dressed in police uniforms in a popular silent movies series. Nothing like our PAPD and PAFD.

So why didn't our omniscient armchair critic just walk on the water and march over the mud and help this woman? Show 'em how it's done, o great one.

Wow: it's incredible that the actual story above asserts that the operation was described as a "keystone cops adventure" in TownSquare. As you can see from the actual post (appended below) someone said, "thanks for the commentary on what SEEMS [emphasis mine] to be a "keystone cops" adventure.
Let me get this straight: a "news" article is using an assertion about a description from a non-eyewitness on a discussion forum to characterize an actual public service response?!?
I'm not sure whether to be offended, amused, appalled or indifferent. At the very least, I want to take a firefighter who was there out for a beer and say, "thanks for helping."

ORIGINAL POST FROM OTHER TOPIC:
Posted by Outside Observer, a resident of another community, 20 hours ago



qq,

Thanks for the commentary on what seems to be a "keystone cops" adventure. Hope the woman ends up all right for all of this. How did she get out there, and how are you able to follow all this? Police scanner? Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but I would have expected public safety communications would have been encrypted and digitized years ago.

Report Objectionable Content

Palo Alto gov't should buy a hoovercraft for rescues of this sort. Palo Alto city gov't likes to spend taxpayer money on needless things of this type, so it makes absolute sense.

She got stuck because of tidal flows; an island forms in marshes all of the time. The paths/trails out there are poorly marked. Don't they call them the Baylands? Somebody should look at the tidal charts for the hours when this happened. Remember "don'tU mo f... with mother nature!"

The most disappointing part of this story is the lady will not have to pay for her rescue, if not, why not? You do a dumb thing like walk out to a muddy island and get stuck and need a helicopter rescue you should have to pay for it.

If you ski and fall and have to be brought down the mountain by the ski patrol you pay for it. If you fall while hiking in the back country you pay for a helicopter rescue - big bucks.

Why should the tax payers have to pony up for this stupidity?

hahahah this is hilarious that she needed a helicopter to get out of the baylands.
she couldn't just suck it up and get her clothes a little muddy by walking across?

any by the way, it couldnt have been an island, cuz then how the hell did she get there?

People get stuck out there all the time. I have been on many rescue calls out in the baylands. What fireman forgets to tell everyone is that there has been many successful rescues from down airplanes to wind surfers. He has a problem with anything to do with the city- if you have not noticed.
The Boat Rescue program is on hold due to the boat needs to be replaced and funding for training boat drivers and rescue swimmers is not there. During these times, every dept in the city has had to cut back their spending.
Please, everyone remember that what fireman writes is ONLY one side of the story. I encourage everyone to ask questions next time you visit a Fire station or see a Firefighter and get the whole story, not just one side. Thank you.

people are a lot more stupid than i thought they were in the first place. yes, there might have a bit more creative thinking to help the lady. the whole process to help her sounds ridiculous, but i wasn't there so what do i know.

It sounds like a strange move to walk out to anything in the middle of the Baylands marsh/water area. I thought this was all off limits.

I'm glad the woman is okay. However, it is a pity that her seemingly foolish actions led to the use of so many city personnel and resources. Shouldn't she be charged at least a little something?

How about Keystone Kouncil?
Firefighter, with all due respect before you note a needed program is on hold be prepared to demonstrate its lesser importance than solar panels and other froufrou that went ahead. Had that woman been diabetic or had the weather been a bit more raw, the deferral of the air boat purchase might have been at a price. Rescue swimmer? In a mudflat? Come on.

Firefighter, first let me say I am a HUGE fan of all who are in the fire service, but...this incident sure sounds like it is need of a thorough post mortem review by the emergency responders involved--it was botched. As for excuses like, the boat needs to be replaced-if you're referring to MP's airboat, it better not be worn out, other than a couple of times I can't recall it ever being used except for training. ALso, how much extra money does it cost to teach someone to drive a boat (bet there are people in the dept. that own and drive their own). Lastly, to W.E.W.'s point, rescue swimmer training, again, not a money issue-junior lifesaving classes at the Y don't cost much.

How very parochial and silly some comments look. A trail in the Baylands will leave you surrounded by water at high tide? And when is what looks a perfectly acceptable trail an under water danger when the tide changes? The comments are parochial and lack substance (not unusual for palo alto) because posters assume that people (the woman in question for example) have a "natural" knowledge of these circumstances. Most of us who are not habitues of such environments do not know what to look for. That' s why such accidents are not subject to penalties or "payment" for these direct emergency government services. It is assumed in the civilized world that's what civil protection moneys cover. We also pay for services I don't use ever ( non car users pay for roads they don't use, non- flood victims pay indirect taxes to FEMA , etc) and consider that the common good is catered for by having assistance when in danger. Not only is this a given by being a member of a community or country it would also be impossible to compute given the many factors involved. The greedy, jealous, stone-throwers-at-others'-roofs do not easily grasp the concept of mutual help and human transaction. Let them hope they never need anything or EVER, God forbid, be foolish, stupid or simply unknowledgeable at any time in their lives.

Nore Charles,

So know it's the woman's fault of what went on during the rescue attempts and over which she had NO control? is it her fault that the air boat was not in working order or that emergency services tried to float a vessel but couldn't? Do YOU pay for all services you use and I don't use? Does Stanford pay for all the use of city resources made by it's employees and residents?
This accident looks to me a result of lack of experience with dealing with the Baylands not stupidity. But even if it was I ask you: would you like to live in a place in which there was no provision for such issues? Do YOU live in earthquake country? Do you pay EXTRA for the extra civil protection resources that you use and those in Pittsburgh, PA don't but also pay for? If so, why do think the woman should pay? Aren't you voluntarily placing yourself in danger by living in the Bay Area? Should others pay for YOU as they do?

She should not pay. Her taxes pay for those services if she ever needs them. Home and car insurance- don't want to use them, but glad it's there.

Narnia, Hear! Hear! I was at a party of PA residents on Sunday and we had a long discussion about the uncivil and nasty tone of some of the comments on this forum. The woman got into trouble and she was rescued. That's the bottom line for me. Why point a finger at her and say she has to pay? Why castigate public servants to show what a witty person you are?

The facts, This lady needed help. The city of palo alto has no way to help a person stuck on anything ,anywhere in the bay lands.

Fact if this person needed to be rescued, She would be dead.

One reason the City of palo alto dispatch, would know this is a problems area. A PR problem. Would most likely not call the coast guard right a way. They would send the fire department out to check first. Wasted time knowing we can not do anything to help her. This would delay the real call top the coast guard. THE ONLY ONES WHO COULD DO A REAL RESCUE.
No one really knows what is going on with the boat, Except the leaders and the are not talking, Have not been talking the whole time its been GONE. Why do you think you even have a program.

This boat is a hazard and misleading to be at any fire station. No one is current in its operation. It is is poor condition.

But in times like this, The leaders will order the firefighters to use it. If it is no used and out of service for 11 years. GET RID OF IT.
OR get a PROGRAM THAT WOULD WORK? Tax payers money, and firefighter safety and I KNOW THIS DOES NOT MEAN MUCH TO THE FD AND CITY LEADERS. SERVICE TO THE CITIZENS who paid for it and THINK you have it.

Promises or lies..... Same thing for too many people in Palo Alto, living and working.

Narnia, my you seem to have your knickers in a twist over this! (Never mind you got my name wrong.) Over the years there have been many, many stories of people having to be rescued due to their own recklessness (i.e., driving cars across a flooded roads, getting lost in the wilderness, etc.) Often these people are rescued at tremendous public cost. Most people (myself included) do not put themselves in precarious, often foolish positions necessitating such costly rescue operations. My suggestion was reasonable and legitimate, but clearly you feel there is room for only one opinion--yours. And rest assured, I pay a hell of a lot in property tax and earthquake insurance.

Nora Charles,

you do NOT pay for the extra federal and state civil resources put in place because you chose to live in a dangerous place. ALL taxpayers of the US do. It is a pooled resource and the same with emergency services. You do NOT know why many do seemingly foolish things but I am glad that you don't. So, if you ever cross the street unwisely (or simply what not holier-than-thou people call an error in judgment) and need help the city should charge you the city services time- I have good reason to believe that a simple police call will cost 7,000 to 10,000 dollars per call ( because only the people who need emergency services would pay for those services and not those who do not need them in any given fiscal year according to your make-them-pay or die belief).
I am sorry I got your beautiful irish name wrong (mistyped, but since you styled yourself as a community policeman for all OTHERS are doing you HAD to point this out least others missed my misstep ). The need to blame something we don't have a clear picture is intolerant. Maybe the woman was not not aware that what looked to her as part of the baylands "and" she was stepping on it at low tide would be an island at high tide ....

" I pay a hell of a lot in property tax and earthquake insurance"
NO, YOU DON"T. Property taxes and earthquake insurance ARE subsidized by ALL taxpayers that pay more than you.. Property taxes in this area are actually quite low (compare with those of East Costers who subsidize YOUR needed resources).
It's one thing to have opinions it's another to have well founded opinions . Yours do not have a foundation in the reality that in a way or another OUR choices (including your foolish one of living in a place that is likely to need direct FEMA and federal resources sometime in the next 30 years-indirectly already) are a courtesy of other US residents.

All,

I was making a case for the woman in question not to have to pay for her rescue at all. All I did was to point out exactly what Tim said "Her taxes pay for those services if she ever needs them. Home and car insurance- don't want to use them, but glad it's there". I also pointed out why. Somebody must have confused my posts with others.

I work for the City of Palo Alto, and have rescued many park visitors in need of assistance at the Baylands. My co-workers and I are dedicated, hard-working professionals. We take great pride in protecting the habitat, wildlife, and park visitors in Palo Alto's Parks and Open Space.

It is deeply disappointing to read how dissatisfied many of the residents we serve seem to be with City staff.

We will endeavor to win your support and trust by offering the best service we can possibly deliver.

I live on the San Mateo County Coast in the UNINCORPORATED area. We get yahoos all the time over here who climb down onto cliffs or sail out of the harbor without heeding small craft warnings and then need to be rescued. Firefighters and Sheriffs Dept. personnel are trianed for cliff and water rescue. We also have the Coast Guard and Harbor district personnel to asssist. Other POSTERS:
"It sounds like a strange move to walk out to anything in the middle of the Baylands marsh/water area" OR "Over the years there have been many, many stories of people having to be rescued due to their own recklessness (i.e., driving cars across a flooded roads, getting lost in the wilderness, etc.) Often these people are rescued at tremendous public cost. Most people (myself included) do not put themselves in precarious, often foolish positions necessitating such costly rescue operations."

Yep, strange,or reckless but you can't stop fools from behaving foolishly.

By the way, there was an extra low-LOW tide this past Saturday due to the Full Moon, so that likely contributed to the apparent acceesibility of the island to the lady out walking and why the boats could not reach her due to lack of ample water depth. It did seem sort of Keystone Cops-esque in that many futile attemps were made before she was able to be rescued.

Opinions which have no foundation count for nothing. They are free and easy. Facts, appraisal of facts, observations, evidence on the other hand are of the bread and butter of thinking people. Unless one is keen on denial we all know that our mortgages, our parks, our roads are a subsidized benefit which comes to us from both those who pay more taxes and (even) those who don't. Emergency services are just one part of the complexity of taking care of each and all of us when the need arises.

Palo Alto Online: A comment I made above on Jan. 14 was somehow posted under the name "Array." Most peculiar!

Narnia: It is clear you have no respect for the opinions of those who do not agree with you. Some might call that narrow-mindedness; indeed, It is certainly not a characteristic of a "thinking person!"

Hi Nora-

I enjoy your comments, and share your opinions on many things from the controversy over our lovely heritage trees, to assessing a charge for emergency services.

When I needed to call the paramedics for my elderly mother more than 10 years ago, I received a bill from the city. I believe that it was around $1000. My family had lived here and paid taxes for 40 years.
I didn't think twice about paying this bill, even though this was the first time our family ever needed any kind of help from our city.
They helped save her life after she suffered a heart attack.

Thank you for your opinions.

Hello Resident,

I am so touched by your kind words. I guess with so many here of varied opinions there is bound to be some head-butting from time to time!

What a relief that the paramedics were able to save your dear mother. My hat is off to them and the other city employees who work in harm's way each day to keep us all safe.

Your comments are deeply appreciated. Thank you.