Read the full story here Web Link posted Friday, December 12, 2008, 9:18 AM
Town Square
City ponders major electricity projects
Original post made on Dec 12, 2008
Read the full story here Web Link posted Friday, December 12, 2008, 9:18 AM
Comments (28)
a resident of Barron Park
on Dec 12, 2008 at 9:42 am
How about funding massive credits (50%+) for residents who install photovoltaic cells so we don't need to look for more ways to generate more electricity.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 12, 2008 at 10:29 am
What about putting all utilities underground? I haven't heard a peep about this for several years, and I still have some very attractive poles and wires in my back yard...
a resident of Community Center
on Dec 12, 2008 at 11:05 am
Just Wondering: If they undergound your wires the City will make you pay for it. They undergrounded the neighborhood on Middlefield at Oregon; several residents were charged upward of $6,000.
The City has collected too much money from the electricity users, therefore, they should return it to us.
a resident of Professorville
on Dec 12, 2008 at 11:15 am
Putting the utilities underground, or at least subsidizing the process if residents want it, ... that'd be a suitable use. Makes the place safer, more secure, and much prettier.
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Dec 12, 2008 at 11:25 am
If the smart meters send back their data over the upcoming fiber-to-the-home (OK, slight overkill) ... then there could be some good cost sharing for that last 100 feet of cable.
And of course ... put it all underground.
-----
Presumably higher transmission voltage with PG&E saves money? How many years to pay for itself?
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 12, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.
Smart metering will soon be mandated, so we should get to the head of the line now. We need to start a program separating essential loads such as lighting, refrigeration and furnace motor from laundry and convenience loads so a voluntary paid deferable load rate can be charged.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 12, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.
A little cogeneration would help, too.
a resident of Barron Park
on Dec 12, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I don't consider laundry to be just a convenience.
a resident of Downtown North
on Dec 12, 2008 at 12:58 pm
"I don't consider laundry to be just a convenience."
Barbara,
Surely we could agree that saving the planet is so important that wearing clean clothes can be sacrificed. I am not saying to never do laundry, but maybe just cut down by 70-80%.
We need to sacrifice. The ice caps are melting!
a resident of Downtown North
on Dec 12, 2008 at 12:59 pm
I know. Let's spend it all on a consultant to look into what we should do?!
Tongue firmly in cheek.
Actually, I think rolling back our price increase should be effected plus taking steps to make us more energy independent within the community.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 12, 2008 at 1:01 pm
The money was collected for a contingency that did not occur, it should be returned to the people so they can make their own strategic investments, not squandered by bureaucrats.
a resident of Palo Verde
on Dec 12, 2008 at 1:50 pm
What about the fiber optic cable that we 'could not afford'. Nothing seems to be happening on that front at all. Can we pull out of the agreement that we signed? That would be fulfillment of a long standing promise that was made. In the meantime I believe we are giving a million dollars a year to the company that promised us a system??
a resident of Crescent Park
on Dec 12, 2008 at 2:06 pm
How about saving the money for the rainy days that are ahead!!! Oops, sorry, this is Palo Alto, we're recession proof-my bad.
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Dec 12, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Maybe the money can be used to implement the Klein/Kishimoto/Drekmeier plan for climate change. I am sure our council can figure out away to fritter away the money. Is there a $5 million sponsorship level for the upcoming Senior Games
a resident of Palo Verde
on Dec 12, 2008 at 2:33 pm
What about the fiber optic cable that we 'could not afford. Nothing seems to be happening on that front at all. Can we pull out of the agreement that we signed? That would be fulfillment of a long standing promise that was made. In the meantime I believe we are giving a million dollars a year to the company that promised us a system??
fibe optic would be a tremendous asset to Palo Alto residents. Everyone sho has been able to have it would never give it up.
It would also be a continuing source of revenue even at bargain rates.
It would be a fast and easy way to contact all the residents about emergncies and problems and alerts.
It would be a tremendous asset for students to quickly look up inofrmation.
And it would not cost very much if everyone could have it.
Lastly, it would restore some of my faith in the wisdom and integrity of the council
a resident of Palo Verde
on Dec 12, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Offering better subsidies for photo voltaic would be a great environmental use as well. Thanks to to Rick of Barron Park for his suggestion.
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Dec 12, 2008 at 3:15 pm
There are a fair number of older apartment complexes in Palo Alto -- some of which predate California's efficiency standards, and which have no insulation whatsoever. Landlords, as the property owners, pay for insulation and appliances, but renters pay the utility bills. This means that the landlords have little financial incentive to improve efficiency in their units, while renters don't stick around long enough to reap the benefits from making an improvement -- assuming that the landlord will permit them to make it in the first place.
Insulation, new furnaces, hot water heaters, and the likes aren't visible status symbols, but upgrades to older housing stock are likely to be a much more cost-effective means of cutting CO2 emissions in Palo Alto than larger subsidies for solar panels.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 12, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.
Laundry can be deferred if the user is paid to defer it - freezers and refrigerators and lights and furnace cannot be deferred. Critical A/C for asthmatics and others cannot be deferred, comfort A/C can be deferred.
a resident of Community Center
on Dec 12, 2008 at 6:16 pm
The City cannot take money from the utility users for a contingency that did not happen. Since we did not vote on this appropriation, I think the law will require the Utility Department to return this money to the City's Electrical Rate payers.
a resident of Barron Park
on Dec 12, 2008 at 6:51 pm
The next story was that East palo does not have enough money for schools. Give the extra money to them now
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 12, 2008 at 11:07 pm
The most effective way to reduce our city's carbon footprint is to keep vehicles moving, especially along the main commuter corridors. The stampeding cars at rush hours could be routed to their destinations with modern traffic circles (remember Joe Kott?) and intersection traffic signaling that can anticipate vehicle flows. Ever notice the random timing of lights on Lytton or Hamilton avenues?
All those idling vehicles caused by our antiquated traffic controls are getting 0,yes, Zero miles per gallon.
Changing to Compact Fluorescent lamps and turning down thermostats is nice but, we must confront that most holy of entitlements: driving.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 13, 2008 at 1:25 am
Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.
a user, I believe you are correct that putting a fee into the general fund violates prop 13.
And energymah, Joe Kotts' attempt, caught by me, to circumvent the requirements of California's engineering registration laws, may well be your God because of his love of punishing drivers. Driving is not just a rich man's sport like polo, it is essential to the maintenance of our life. Perhaps you can limit your scope to walking or biking distance or to the world reachable by public transit, but others have a life.
a resident of Palo Verde
on Dec 13, 2008 at 11:20 am
The suggestion to provide incentives to older apartments for insulation, energy efficient heaters and furnaces is an excellent one and would be a great use for the 'found surplus' utility money, even better than photovoltaic. However solar hot water heaters are quite cost effective and pay for themselves in only five years or so.This can make a really significant reduction in energy use and help reduce our energy footprint. As 'renter' so clearly points out neither the renters nor the landlords have a real incentive to add energy efficient improvements. The city could help tremendously in reducing energy use in the older apartments by offering financial incentives to do so.
a resident of Downtown North
on Dec 13, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Is it possible to put Solar Panels on the Downtown tall Palo Alto City Building? And, constructing a Solar Energy Plant and purchase electric operated vehicles for Palo Alto City maintence crews?
a resident of Community Center
on Dec 13, 2008 at 3:05 pm
With regard to the $32 M. surplus in the City’s utility fund, the following may be of interest when it comes time to disburse it!
The following is from the City Charter:
Sec. 2. Public utilities revenue.
The revenue of each public utility shall be kept in a separate fund from all other receipts and shall be used for the purposes and in the order as follows:
(a) For the payment of the operating and maintenance expenses of such utility, including the necessary contribution to retirement of its employees.
(b) For the payment of interest on the bonded debt incurred for the construction or acquisition of such utility.
(c) For the payment of the principal of said debt, as it may become due.
(d) For capital expenditures of such utility.
(e) For the annual payment into a reserve fund for contingencies, of an amount not to exceed ten percent of the expenditure for capital outlay for the year, exclusive of bond fund expenditures. The total accumulated in this reserve for contingencies shall at no time exceed five percent of the book value of the utility's capital in service. This reserve fund shall be available for use by the utility, only for replacements or emergency repairs and after special appropriation by the council.
(f) The remainder shall be paid into the general fund by quarterly allotments.
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Dec 14, 2008 at 11:37 pm
I like both the smart meter, and solar panel incentives.
I'd like to add that many of the transformers on our utility poles are old and were likely designs from the 50/60s. We now have much more efficient solid state transformer designs that can improve the quality of the electricity delivered to the home. This will improve the efficiency of our electricity usage.
For example with an older transformer if you neighbor had in old appliance that emitted electrical noise that can reduce the efficiency of you newer appliance, since the noise would leak back onto your line. The newer transformers (I believe) effectively prevent this and thus with a higher quality electrical line your appliances can run more efficiently.
I don't have numbers on how much an improvement, but it is something to consider.
a resident of Downtown North
on Jan 14, 2009 at 10:39 pm
How about readjusting utility rates for those of us (downtown businesses) who are charged exorbitant electricity rates? Our bill went up 100% in the summer months from our average last year ($3000 per month for a tiny little business). Other than the exorbitant rents for business, utilities are the next huge expense.
a resident of Midtown
on Jan 15, 2009 at 6:46 am
I like how we all post ideas on these forums, as if the Council was trolling these threads for good ideas on how to spend the money. We all know they are tied to special interest and vocal minority groups. If they were not tied they would probably just keep the money for a rainy day or lower our rates. In the end they will spend the money on something we didn't know was needed and it will cost us even more to maintain what ever it is they spent it on.
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