County supervisors reject informing ICE when inmates are released | June 7, 2019 | Palo Alto Weekly | Palo Alto Online |

Palo Alto Weekly

News - June 7, 2019

County supervisors reject informing ICE when inmates are released

Local law enforcement agencies support limited cooperation with federal agency to remove dangerous criminals from community

by Kevin Forestieri and Sue Dremann

Sticking with a longstanding policy, the Santa Clara County Board of Supervisors voted 5-0 Tuesday to reject changing course and notifying federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) of the release of county jail inmates suspected of being in the country illegally.

The unanimous decision, which is in line with a recommendation from the Palo Alto Human Relations Commission, comes after county executives, legal counsel and immigrant rights groups called any working relationship with ICE a bad idea that would erode trust with an already vulnerable community. The county would have to blindly trust immigration officials on claims that an inmate in county custody is in the country illegally, which could subject the county to lawsuits.

"Our county has long been a progressive beacon on this issue and now is not the time to suddenly embrace an agency that does not respect basic human rights and frequently gets citizenship details wrong, subjecting our county to liability," said Santa Clara County Public Defender Molly O'Neal.

The board voted in April to consider a policy for the county to provide ICE with the date and time of release of inmates suspected of being in the country illegally. The policy would be limited to those inmates who had been convicted of a serious or violent felony, amounting to an estimated 100 to 150 inmates each year. The county's current policy ignores these requests, rejecting 6,243 notification requests between November 2014 and March 2019.

The idea came as a direct response to the killing of 59-year-old Bambi Larson, a San Jose woman who was stabbed to death in her home. The suspect, Carlos Arevalo-Carranza, is in the U.S. illegally, and had 10 prior convictions in recent years, ICE officials told the media outlets shortly after Larson's death.

But a May 30 letter sent to the board of supervisors by Palo Alto Human Relations Commissioners Steven Lee and the Rev. Kaloma Smith on behalf of the commission asked the county to reject collaborating with ICE in any way. The Palo Alto commissioners on May 9 voted 5-1, with Gabe Kralik dissenting and Jill O'Nan absent, to officially oppose the proposed policy changes regarding civil detainer requests.

Such a change "treats individuals differently based on documentation status; imposes additional penalties for individuals who have already paid their debt to society by completing their (jail or prison) sentence; and/or results in an overall net decrease in public safety by undermining the public trust our respective local governments and law enforcement agencies have earned within our immigrant community and the community at large," they wrote.

District Attorney Jeff Rosen and local law enforcement agencies — represented by Mountain View Police Chief Max Bosel — however, supported the idea of the limited coordination with ICE, calling it an important public safety policy that would remove dangerous criminals from the community. Rosen released a statement before the meeting calling ICE notifications a "balanced approach" that weighs the concerns of the immigrant community against the risk of allowing undocumented residents convicted of serious or violent felonies to stay in the country.

Bosel, who mostly deferred to Rosen, argued that the coordinated transfer of serious and violent felons into ICE custody means immigration enforcement agents won't have to raid neighborhood communities to make arrests. He said the immigrant community is fearful of such raids, which can lead to "incidental contacts" with undocumented people who wouldn't otherwise be contacted by federal immigration authorities.

"Notifying ICE and providing ICE agents the ability to take custody of individuals in a secure jail would likely reduce the amount of ICE operations in local communities, thereby reducing the probability of these incidental contacts," Bosel wrote.

But the Palo Alto commissioners argued the policy changes would likely undermine public safety by eroding public trust in and cooperation with local law enforcement.

"The tragic murder of Bambi Larson would not have been prevented had the proposed changes been in effect. A number of studies indicate that undocumented individuals are less, not more, likely to commit a serious or violent crime and are also less likely to be recidivists or commit additional crimes than citizens," they wrote, citing a January 2019 Cato Institute study and a 2015 report by the National Association of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine on the integration of immigrants into American society.

Studies also show that cooperation with ICE makes communities less safe because of the chilling effect it has on immigrant populations, 70% of whom are less likely to report crimes, engage with or seek law-enforcement assistance or use vital public services, the commissioners wrote, citing an April 2018, article in the Washington Post by University of California, San Diego Associate Professor Tom Wong.

At least three supervisors showed interest in notifying ICE of the release of inmates suspected of being in the country illegally, but actually putting that policy into practice was seen as untenable. The county had no way of verifying whether federal immigration officials had accurate information on the inmates, and ICE is an agency known for "aggressive and unscrupulous enforcement tactics" that stoke fear and undermine community trust, according to county officials.

Supervisor Mike Wasserman, originally a proponent of ICE notifications, made clear from the outset at the June 4 meeting that he planned to reverse course. He said the county's inability to determine legal status of inmates is "unfortunate and disappointing," but is a reality that prevents him from supporting his own proposal.

"After much investigation and research our county counsel, law enforcement, DA, public defender and numerous immigrant rights-related organizations have proven that there is no practical and legal way of knowing if a person in our custody is truly undocumented," Wasserman said. "And for that reason, I withdraw my suggestion of notifying ICE."

Because of California's state sanctuary immigration policy, SB 54, the county is prohibited from asking inmates about their immigration status. County Executive Jeff Smith said the inability to independently verify ICE's claims on the immigrant status of inmates is a major cause for concern, given that the agency has been wrong in over 3,000 cases in the last year.

"By operating without adequate information the county is putting itself at risk because it is relying completely on ICE information, which we know has mistakes in it," he said.

County Executive Smith said allowing notifications would also be tantamount to creating a racial profiling program, and that counties that do permit notifications on inmate releases are showing a clear bias against Latinos. In 2018, San Mateo County was asked for notifications on 735 inmates, 7% of whom were eventually picked up by ICE agents. Of those inmates picked up, all but two were of Latin-American descent, Smith said.

Wasserman's early announcement changed the tenor of the packed crowd of attendees at the June 4 meeting, with close to 160 speakers mostly supporting Wasserman in his rejection of ICE notifications. Most speakers rapidly approached the dais and thanked the board for its decision not to work with ICE, even if the decision was reached due to practical limitations rather than a moral stance against a federal crackdown on illegal immigration.

Board President Joe Simitian, who represents North County, said he agreed that the county should not be working hand in glove with an agency he would describe as institutionally racist, and that he would never advocate for cooperation with ICE when inmates are facing traffic violations, misdemeanors or even the bulk of chargeable felonies in California. But for those convicted of serious and violent felonies and in county custody, he said it does make sense to "step up and engage in some measure of cooperation with immigration officials."

Despite his dissent, Simitian said he voted in the majority in order to make it a unanimous vote not to turn over any inmates to federal immigration officials without a judicial arrest warrant.

"I think there's some value in putting this issue to rest in a 5-0 vote today," he said.

Staff Writer Kevin Forestieri can be emailed at kforestieri@mv-voice.com. Staff Writer Sue Dremann can be reached at sdremann@paweekly.com.

Comments

51 people like this
Posted by George
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Jun 5, 2019 at 10:17 am

If citizens are uninterested in defending their properties others will be quick to take it. However generous it seems, flooding the country with dependent people whose language and skills level may be decades from supporting a technical economy is not very smart. It’s vital for all and for both sides to manage the flow - illegally storming the borders at night is just bad. Those who support this are not directly supporting the consequences but they do expect everyone else to pay for it.

It’s disappointing that the Supervisors choose not to support the law. Continuing to advertise that the county, and state, welcomes illegals is wrong. Unfortunately, our short-sighted politicians don’t yet see the longer term costs and issues.


31 people like this
Posted by ice belongs in....... cocktails
a resident of The Greenhouse
on Jun 5, 2019 at 10:57 am

Unlike some of the fear mongers, I and others support our local law enforcement agencies that do not seek blanket ICE involvement. As nted in the article, police work best when working openly with all communities - ICE closes some of those communities, to all our detriment.

Immigrants have lower rates of crime than so-called 'muricans.


61 people like this
Posted by ICE Supporter
a resident of Barron Park
on Jun 5, 2019 at 12:00 pm

Incredible. If ICE is not adequately informed of illegal immigrants currently being held in county jail for criminal offenses, then upon release these foreign-born jailbirds now have the latitude to continue with their unlawful ways.

What's the point of even arresting them in the first place? Just let these miscreants & sociopaths run free towards sanctuary cities & municipalities that do not have an appreciation or understanding for what ICE is doing to keep America safe from individuals illegally entering the country & committing crimes against US citizens.

If one is here legally & not committing crimes, they have nothing to fear from ICE.


14 people like this
Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 5, 2019 at 12:39 pm

Resident 1-Adobe Meadows is a registered user.

San Jose has a problem. One of it's senior political members shares parenthood with former state assembly head Kevin DeLeon - the person who wrote the Sanctuary City law. That is not gossip since it is on his Wikipedia official background sheet.
Add to that the Alum Rock School District scandal which is in a legal fight regarding construction contracting gone awry. Also called money laundering with a SOCAL firm.
Why this decision was made is political at this point but since Google is buying up San Jose at some point I suspect that there will be pressure to enforce ICE participation as Google cannot afford to have it's employees and investment put at risk. We know there is gang activity and they probably think they can control it - not so. Shameful and irresponsible.


36 people like this
Posted by ICE Supporter
a resident of Barron Park
on Jun 5, 2019 at 12:51 pm

"...flooding the country with dependent people whose language and skills level may be decades from supporting a technical economy is not very smart. It’s vital for all and for both sides to manage the flow -"

The migrating immigrants from Central America seem better suited to settle in parts of Mexico...common language, food & religion.

Mexico says it is trying to accommodate them. Roughly 8,000+ refugees from Central America have received sanctuary.

This is not America's problem & should not be undertaken as such.

In light of the presumed factors attributed to the tropical fruit industry (ad nauseum) let Dole & The United Fruit Company accommodate these migrant people...if in fact the banana & pineapple industries are actually responsible for their plight.

On the other hand, it is difficult to fathom that picking bananas for a living is their lifelong & sole ambition.


10 people like this
Posted by Free Montie
a resident of Community Center
on Jun 5, 2019 at 1:31 pm

[Post removed.]


23 people like this
Posted by Don't Step On The Banana Peel
a resident of Downtown North
on Jun 5, 2019 at 3:14 pm

> Mexico says it is trying to accommodate them. Roughly 8,000+ refugees from Central America have received sanctuary.

Since another poster has emphasized (in numerous threads) that all of this migration is due to displaced banana plantation workers, will these new immigrants from Central America require any form of vocational re-training to assume viable roles in Mexico's avocado, mango & papaya industry?

Since many of the agricultural crops once grown in California are now being imported, is it anticipated that the need for seasonal farm workers will diminish over time?

It is unfortunate that these Central American countries do not encourage software design & development. Then many refugees could be accepted into the US on H-1B work visas & land lucrative jobs at Google & Facebook.

Since the banana & pineapple industry is highly controlled & regulated by mega corporations & the CIA (as per the tropical fruit expert), I would imagine that there is minimal growth opportunities working on a banana plantation.


53 people like this
Posted by George
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Jun 5, 2019 at 3:20 pm

According to PEW Research, 2.2 illegals are currently in California - 69% of them from Mexico. 2.2 million is not TOTAL immigrant population, just the illegals. All of these require housing, many will support families and need jobs. Average health care expenditures PER PERSON in the U.S. is about $10,000 a year. 2.2 million California illegals require about $22 billion of medical care. Average per pupil spend in California is $11,588. If half of the inflow are school age, that’s another $13 billion, assuming there is space and trained teachers available. Chances are, planning for these services is after the fact since they arrive unannounced, in the night, with every intent to evade.
Jobs need to be found and housing secured. Just by showing up, illegally, they put downward pressure on low income workers’ jobs and salaries because more people are chasing a relatively fixed number of jobs. More people are looking for scarce housing with the result that rents rise. Illegals make it harder for those already here.

Those with open arms should open their pocketbooks and homes to those they have invited in. What is happening instead is that cities, counties, the state, and various charity budgets are all being hit to cover the support costs. As a result, taxes are going up. Those whose arms are open are generously offering up everyone else’s money to cover the costs, like it or not. It does not matter that their are people lying on our streets and shut up in their homes already here and in great need - many in desperate need.

It’s easy to cast a vote showing how generous people spending other people’s money can be.


2 people like this
Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 5, 2019 at 3:31 pm

Resident 1-Adobe Meadows is a registered user.

I am laughing at the comments. You can google Guatemala 1954. The CIA was created to remove the then president of Guatemala because he wanted to have union wages and take back the land that was bought by UFCO but not under any growing of crops. Large sections of land held on a stand by basis. And yes the CIA had a phony war and got rid of him and UFCO got their land back. But lost their sugar cane fields in Cuba when Fidel Castro took over - Bay of Pigs. So today Walmart is selling ONE bananas from Guatemala, Safeway selling Chiquita from Mexico. I can vision the banana wars in process over that scenario - ONE is cutting the price to Walmart so Chiquita has lost a major customer.
Do I care?
Only that we have a large number of people migrating. AND - that the CIA has a playbook as to getting rid of political foes and they keep using the same script over and over. Once you have read the original script then any "Hollywood" action movie they put on after that is predictable. Same script, same players, same predictable scenario.


15 people like this
Posted by Accommodating A Few
a resident of Portola Valley
on Jun 5, 2019 at 3:38 pm

> Those with open arms should open their pocketbooks and homes to those they have invited in.

For those of liberal perspectives & with available 'granny units' or cottages, would it be feasible to house 1-2 'recently arrived' immigrants (ideally a couple) & then put them to work on the property as domestics, cooks, babysitters and gardeners?

We've always dreamed of having multiple servants like in the old movies & this might be a way to accommodate a small number of displaced refugees. The servants would be paid of course (minimum scale), provided food & shelter & their health insurance covered. Since they are not citizens of the US, I imagine their tax liabilities would be zero and we (the homeowners) would encourage naturalization on their part.


2 people like this
Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 5, 2019 at 4:17 pm

Resident 1-Adobe Meadows is a registered user.

The scenario above is the major joke line running in the comics - Doonsebury Classics- Gary Trudeau. Running jokes on the Hollywood Stars who have undocumented help, no social security and no pension benefits. Zonker is tending a tot and finally got his social security card. So now Zonk is "official" and wallowing in it. Goes to hang out with the other care givers of children and they are all speaking Spanish. So Gary Trudeau has turned a corner on this topic and is slamming Hollywood for taking advantage of undocumented.


2 people like this
Posted by Eyemax
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jun 5, 2019 at 7:19 pm

Eyemax is a registered user.

This article is misleading. The letter from the Palo Alto Human Relations Commission did not influence the outcome. It was simply Commissioners Lee and Smith showboating because they care more about self-promotion than they do serving the community.


15 people like this
Posted by The American Way
a resident of Barron Park
on Jun 5, 2019 at 8:00 pm

The American Way is a registered user.

Very reassuring to learn that the CIA was created over a banana. Was the Cold War just an afterthought?

As far as ICE...if this department can control the influx of illegal immigrant criminals entering the US as well as arrest or deport those already here, I have no problem with the concept. Those against reporting illegal immigrant criminals to ICE are endorsing further criminal activity & we seem to have enough of that already.

For some reason, it doesn't make sense to let an undocumented immigrant criminal back on the streets for the sake of 'humanity'. If that is the case, why bother arresting them in the first place?

It is unfortunate that this mass migration from Central America and the % of criminals entering among them are attributable to the CIA & its relentless efforts to ensure the existence of a simple banana.


1 person likes this
Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 6, 2019 at 10:05 am

Resident 1-Adobe Meadows is a registered user.

There are a lot of pieces to a puzzle. If you are looking at the D-day celebrations today then you know that a number of false fronts were effected to hide the eventual landing on Normandy. There are a lot of pieces to the Central American puzzle so you look at the pieces of the puzzle that compel people to migrate in such huge numbers. Note in the paper today - NYT Kristof - they can't plant in that ground anymore so telling sons to migrate.

Any agricultural venture has a lot of moving parts - money, labor, growing conditions, climate issues which change demographics, support of both local and international governments and markets to buy the product. Note that Walmart is the biggest buyer in America and they worked to beat down the Chiquita pricing. And how they have shifted to One Banana that is a Guatemalan grower. That is going to hurt Chiquita. You can translate that "local" situation to soy beans, wheat, marijuana - a growing crop in CA, etc. Every product that we sell has competing products, including technology which is not doing too well right now. So what type of phone do you have? Where is it produced? Who is competing for what type of phone you have? What brand of computer are you using? Where produced?

So the pieces of the puzzle have a lot of moving parts and political interference is one of them. The CIA story is interesting since it is a point in time that was critical to how international corporations function in the world. So why aren't they there now trying to figure out why this problem is happening? So we have a lot of pieces to the puzzle and the immigration policy and sanctuary city policies is a new spin.
From where I am sitting the latest spins on this story are hurting everyone involved. And we do not have all of the pieces of the puzzle on the table.
The more pieces of the puzzle you have the better to assess how to go forward. I would hope that the government step up to the problem NOW and get the people back into a productive situation so they can live their lives with their families in their own countries. Maybe new products to keep people employed. Also support/lack of from the religious factions which are telling everyone around the world to migrate somewhere else. That is a problem now in Europe so we are not alone in the migration impacts on countries.


25 people like this
Posted by The American Way
a resident of Barron Park
on Jun 6, 2019 at 10:17 am

The American Way is a registered user.

> I would hope that the government step up to the problem NOW and get the people back into a productive situation so they can live their lives with their families in their own countries. Maybe new products to keep people employed. Also support/lack of from the religious factions which are telling everyone around the world to migrate somewhere else. That is a problem now in Europe so we are not alone in the migration impacts on countries.

^^^ Your best insight to date! All countries (and regions) need to be addressing the migration issue/problem along these lines as economic viability reduces to need to relocate elsewhere.

As a country (i.e. the USA) we also experienced this migratory phenomena from within when countless African-Americans resituated from rural areas to the inner cities due to improved employment opportunities.

And from the outside the US, this factor can also be attributed to the previous influx & flow of Hispanic agricultural workers seeking better work opportunities in the farming sectors of California.

It is the responsibility of the individual countries to provide a quality of life environment for their own citizenry and America is getting overrun by migration...both legal & illegal.


9 people like this
Posted by Martha Dogood
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Jun 6, 2019 at 11:20 am

Martha Dogood is a registered user.

@Resident 1-Adobe Meadows,
I beg to differ on creation of CIA, that is a much longer and complex history and it was not all tied to bananas in Central America. Read a bit more on OSS in WWII and Dulles for origins of CIA, and of course espionage is the second oldest profession, and much needed for any country. You can debate for days about CIA “mistakes” and wins....a very long complex history. When I walked passed names of those killed in service at CIA HQ I saluted their service to our country.

As for this massive wave of migration, one simple way to get it under control and reinstitute the rule of law is for our weak kneed congress to get some real work done and fix our outdated and dysfunctional immigration and asylum laws. It should be crystal to clear to every person on earth that if you want asylum in USA you must apply and wait in your country or a neighboring country. If you enter illegally you’ll be deported and put on a list of no entry permitted period. If you follow rule of law and process you are rewarded with a place in line. At the same time, as many have stated, these people must be given clear reasons and roles to rebuild their own countries for the 21st Century. Fleeing for USA does nothing to help their country or culture. Most of the people in all the tv and media photos of the migrant caravans are young men. They ought to be building their countries up, not fleeing like cowards.

Finally, for those promoting open borders and not supporting ICE, I’d like to see you open your home and take care of a few guys from these caravans. Perhaps take in one of the young MS13 recruits who just raped some girl, give him aid and shelter for unlimited time, cover his healthcare, feed and cloth him for the next 10 years. Or would that interfere too much with your cozy routine in the bubble of Palo Alto? I’d like to send a truck load of them to Pelosi’s house and have her support 2 dozen MS 13 gang members instead of some poor hardworking family in Fresno getting to live next door to them. The hypocrisy of the leftist Ds in all of this is nauseating.


1 person likes this
Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 7, 2019 at 6:14 am

Resident 1-Adobe Meadows is a registered user.

So back to the topic at hand - Santa Clara County - Alum Rock had a shooting.killing last night which is the 13th for this year. Area is Story Road and McGinnis Avenue. No name released however the Alum Rock area is gang territory.
Meanwhile in Letters to the Editor a thank you from the San Jose Nikki Resistors - WW2 incarceration ancestors.
So we can conclude here that the County does have a problem and bodies are stacking up. And on D-Day for WW2 in which the US was initially bombed at Pearl Harbor by Japan which was the official entry into the war appears to have no connection to those incarcerated. They should be happy that they were incarcerated since on both the Japanese side and American side massive numbers of people lost their lives. Given what we know about WW2 why is there a disconnect between cause and effect.


8 people like this
Posted by paloverdeman
a resident of Palo Verde
on Jun 7, 2019 at 7:08 am

paloverdeman is a registered user.

> And on D-Day for WW2 in which the US was initially bombed at Pearl Harbor by Japan which was the official entry into the war appears to have no connection to those incarcerated. They should be happy that they were incarcerated since on both the Japanese side and American side massive numbers of people lost their lives.

^^^Are you justifying the incarceration of Japanese-American citizens during World War II?


Like this comment
Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 7, 2019 at 12:41 pm

Resident 1-Adobe Meadows is a registered user.

James Michner's book Hawaii tells the history of Hawaii from the beginning through the import of people's to work in the fields and up to statehood. The Japanese who came to work sent money home to the royalty and prayed that they would come and take Hawaii back as their own. Hawaii was not a state until 1959. During WW2 it was a territory and a lot of countries coveted it as the central control point for the Pacific. So Pearl Harbor was bombed and the Pacific coast cities then had to protect themselves. San Francisco went to great extremes for protection because the oil was stored up the bay. Our fortifications in the Presidio were filled out for protection of the coast, city and bay. Look at all of the lives that were lost. All of the destruction that took place.


8 people like this
Posted by The American Way
a resident of Barron Park
on Jun 7, 2019 at 1:19 pm

The American Way is a registered user.

^^^Are you justifying the incarceration of Japanese-American citizens during World War II?

It sounds like he is endorsing the relocation camps to a certain extent but I cannot speak for him.

A DIRECT yes or no answer (on his part) would clarify things.

Incidentally, it was the Issei (first generation) that came from Japan & had ties to their native country. The second generation Nisei were American-born citizens & as minors & adolescents, they were forced to accompany their parents to the internment camps.

Many of the younger male Nisei served in the decorated 442nd Combat Regiment while some Nisei males refused to enter the US armed services as a protest to their families being interned by the US government.

The wrongful internment of US citizens remains a black mark on American history & was later deemed both unconstitutional as well as racist in its intentions.

Hopefully America will not be taking any steps backwards by neglecting to learn from its past errors in judgement.

On the other hand, criminal activity stemming from UNDOCUMENTED/ILLEGAL immigration needs to be kept in check & reported to ensure the overall safety of American citizens.





8 people like this
Posted by paloverdeman
a resident of Palo Verde
on Jun 7, 2019 at 6:13 pm

paloverdeman is a registered user.

> James Michner's book Hawaii tells the history of Hawaii from the beginning through the import of people's to work in the fields and up to statehood. The Japanese who came to work sent money home to the royalty and prayed that they would come and take Hawaii back as their own.

Back to tropical agriculture again....groan. The Japanese & Filipino sugar cane workers were brought to Hawaii because the native islanders were not into that kind of work and these imported workers from Japan and the Philippine Islands were legally recruited by the sugar cane growers. Though many were not naturalized US citizens, they were not illegal aliens trying to sneak into the United States.

The Japanese in Hawaii were not incarcerated in relocation camps because of the sugar cane plantation labor needs + deporting such a large number of them to mainland relocation camps was not considered practical at the time.

Some Japanese immigrants did send money back to Japan to support the Russo-Japan War & later imperialistic ventures but most were struggling just to make ends meet as they were not being paid very much by the sugar companies.

As far as Hawaii being a desirable military seaport, this is true. David Kalakaua, the last king of Hawaii once tried to marry off his younger sister Princess Liliuokalani (and later queen) to the Japanese royal family in order to form an alliance between Japan & Hawaii but the idea did not fly with the Japanese because like many turn of the century white Americans, the Japanese considered the native Hawaiians to be tropical island 'negroes' further illustrating the pervasive ethnocentric racism of the time. And even to this day, many native Hawaiians do not particularly care for African-Americans because of this misleading ethnic comparison. Racism knows no boundaries in the real world.

So as far as endorsing or condemning the incarceration of mainland Japanese Americans & their families in relocation camps during World war II, we'll just leave that call up to one's individual perspectives.







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Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 8, 2019 at 9:33 am

Resident 1-Adobe Meadows is a registered user.

So you all have a problem with agriculture? It is called FOOD. And at the time of WW2 70% of the Central American area was actually owned by US growers. And their ships were used in WW2 to transport food and military goods to Europe, many sunk by the Germans. The major ports in America on both the Pacific and Atlantic side were dedicated to the central American crops transported by ship. That includes sugar from Hawaii on the Pacific side and sugar from Cuba on the Atlantic side along with all of the crops that have to be grown in a certain hemispheric zone.

John McCain was born in 1936 at COCO Solo Naval Air Station - Panama Canal Zone. You have concentrations of power locations throughout the hemispheric zones in both Hawaii which has military locations on every island and in the Atlantic side of the zones. So go get your morning coffee and think about were your food comes from, who is growing it, and who the companies are that own those crops. And who is buying those crops. PA can go over to Trader Joe's, Safeway. Check out the labels on the agricultural crops. And think about our local port of Oakland - huge container ships filled with goods of all types. It is called FOOD, and COMMERCE.


10 people like this
Posted by paloverdeman
a resident of Palo Verde
on Jun 8, 2019 at 10:03 am

paloverdeman is a registered user.

So it's back to tropical fruits again?

Let's see now, (1) the CIA was founded due to bananas, (2) the Japanese sugar cane workers supported the Imperial war effort, and (3) the relocation camps were implemented to protect the mainland Japanese-Americans from harm along with the oil reserves in the SF Bay Area.

This doesn't explain the incarceration of American citizens of Japanese descent from the Central Valley & SoCal...was some sort of fruit was also involved?

> "They should be happy that they were incarcerated since on both the Japanese side and American side massive numbers of people lost their lives."

^^^ Comparing Japanese nationals & the Japanese military effort to incarcerating Japanese-Americans behind barbed wire is like comparing apples to oranges.

Can't wait until you get back to pineapples...will you be comparing tropical fruit to hand grenades?



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Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 9, 2019 at 11:41 am

Resident 1-Adobe Meadows is a registered user.

How embarrassing that people out there are writing books about these topics. And anyone can go to the library and take out these books and read them.

The CIA was created in 1947 by Harry Truman through the National Security Act. Allen Dulles was the second person to head the CIA. His brother John Foster Dulles worked as a legal counselor to UFCO. The CIA had to develop resources due to the cold war. The CIA began operating in Guatemala in the early 1950's. It is about location, location, location - property ownership - UFCO, and access to a fleet of ships. And one "spy" later went on to write a book about his spy tactics which included the later adventures regarding Nixon - E. Howard Hunt. And of course the more flamboyant character - Che Guevara.

The banana trade did not do well during WW2 so they started concentrating on other products grown in that area - Palm Oil, Rubber - for tires, hemp, coffee, etc. And UFCO owned the land where they could generate a lot of other useful products which are used in major industry. The sugar cane was in Cuba. Fidel Castro was the focus and he took over the sugar cane fields. Meanwhile major companies working out of the ports of New Orleans, New York, Baltimore, San Francisco had dedicated zones to process these products. So location for growing, location for ports of entry, and locations for product processing and distribution. All owned by companies that were located first on the east coast - Boston, New Orleans, New York. those companies have morphed into new combinations which you see, and do not see on your market shelves. So many notable characters who were on the board of UFCO - or ran it. John Cabot - brother of Thomas Cabot. NYT Sulzberger was related by a sister so he fed what ever stories they cooked up to keep the public on the string.
And other characters pop up - Lee Harvey Oswald worked in New Orleans for the Italian company Standard Fruit that became Dole.

As to WW2 and the relocation of Japanese that was a choice made back in a time of great fear. Of course they did not have the same type of intel gathering tools that we now have so primitive in implementation. But WW2 had a lot of critical actions which would probably be handled differently now.

As a side note they are now trying to migrate the banana crops across to Africa in the same world zone to combat the starvation that is occurring there. As products go they have figured out how to handle it and get it out to as many people as possible. Combating world hunger is useful goal for all concerned.


2 people like this
Posted by Mellow Yellow
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Jun 9, 2019 at 11:55 am

Mellow Yellow is a registered user.

> As a side note they are now trying to migrate the banana crops across to Africa in the same world zone to combat the starvation that is occurring there. As products go they have figured out how to handle it and get it out to as many people as possible. Combating world hunger is useful goal for all concerned.

^^^ By feeding the starving Africans nothing but surplus bananas?


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Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 9, 2019 at 12:35 pm

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No - growing them there. They are already doing that. WOW what a bunch of uniformed people that live in this city. What do you do all day?


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Posted by Mellow Yellow
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Jun 9, 2019 at 12:46 pm

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Why don't they grow more bananas in Puerto Rico? Bananas thrive over there.

Puerto Rico is part of the United States so there is no need for any CIA covert intervention. Puerto Rico is also within reasonable shipping lanes to mainland ports.

They also grow other tropical fruits which may or may not be part of an ongoing global political conspiracy. To date, no one's gone to war over plantains.

Web Link


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Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 9, 2019 at 4:02 pm

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Mello - how old are you? You may have missed the Cuban Missile Crises, the Bay of Pigs, etc. And now again Cuba and Russia are heating up with Venezuela. It is a geographic area with a number of countries. Puerto Rico is a territory of the US. The other countries are not territories - they are individual countries with elected governments. Look all of them up on Wikipedia - they each have their own individual stories.
Side note - Cuba was a go-to place previous to Fidel Castro. Now it is a communist country and they just announced that they no longer will entertain tourist groups from the US.
Go do your own research.

Check out the Panama Canal - high important area.
Go buy some bananas and enjoy your research. You can indulge your curiosity at your own pace.


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Posted by paloverdeman
a resident of Palo Verde
on Jun 9, 2019 at 6:44 pm

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The 'Banana Wars' took place right around the end of the Spanish American War to around the 1930s. And yes, it was a USMC 'police intervention' to protect the interests of the United Fruit Company.

But to contend that the CIA was initiated over a banana is ludicrous. By then, the importation of bananas was not problematic as Americans ate bananas with regularity & there were no purchasing restrictions on certain tropical fruits other than if they were not in season.

Though they are picked green, African-grown bananas would probably not be a practical option if transported by cargo ship. Air freight is a different story but now you are talking about the price of bananas going up due to fuel costs.

I imagine the CIA is addressing these issues and their agents working diligently to ensure stable banana republics throughout Africa. The Central American countries are probably very hurt by these developments and as a result, they are retaliating by sending their people to America rather than bananas.

Meanwhile the brain trusts at Dole and United Fruit are wondering if global warming will cause the Cavendish Banana to ripen earlier than expected. As an alternative, canned bananas are a possibility. If it can be done with a pineapple, why not a simple banana?


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Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 10, 2019 at 9:41 am

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The CIA was not initiated because of the giant companies that owned 70% of Central America and all of their relatives were either on the board or actually running the companies. It was initiated because of a shift in policy from the OSS. However it's first "venture" called "Mission Success" was the removal of the then president of the country who wanted to have "union" wages and take back the land not under cultivation. They accomplished that by asserting he was a communist and performed a number of strategic flash bomb tactics to assimilate a war and had the major papers print up stories about the communist threat. It was Fake News setup to take out a President of a country. However when they next went on to Castro and Cuba they failed in the Bay of Pigs. Castro grew up on the UFCO sugar cane fields and knew they were coming. They landed on the wrong side of the island - too shallow, had to wade in and ended up getting shot.

They have a play book which the major papers follow with fake news. And they have a play book for taking out presidents with false assertions. Does this all sound familiar? A play book is a play book however not all of the players are at the same skill level. And the Fake News people plunder on but newer technology does come into play here.
Newer technology - History Channel had the history of the LM Skunk Works. Planes were able to see that bombs were being put on Cuba by Russia. There is News and Fake News.


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Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 11, 2019 at 9:49 am

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The SF Chronicle runs a series on a periodic basis called "Portal of the Past'. The most recent is "1930's -the San Francisco waterfront was Muscle City". In the 1930's there were 82 piers - all active. SF Port was the second biggest port in the country in value of cargo. Each pier had a specific category of product. Copra - dried coconut - pier 84; bananas - pier 60; vegetable oils pier 38; raw sugar from Hawaii, etc. The Muscle City was the longshoremen moving product by muscle. Eventually the port process changed with container ships. So today how products are moved is by container ships or by air cargo.

So you still get down to what is big business and how it is conducted. The Wall Street journal has a weekly section on Commodities. Commodities are a specialty topic. And then next you note who are the biggest buyers - in this case Walmart. Walmart tried to negotiate Chiquita down. Did not work . So now Walmart is buying from ONE - grown in Guatemala. That puts a kink in Chiquita's value on the market. And Chiquita has moved their growing base to Mexico. But Chiquita is selling to Safeway, Trader Joe's, etc. The trader's on the commodities market are looking a value trends, long term and short term. they are not looking at actual people on caravans. A lot of moving parts here, especially all of the young men on caravans which are the main age group of workers for Guatemala. Who is left behind - women and children, and gang members. Also religious people who keep chanting Migration all over the world.
Who is paying for all of this?


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Posted by paloverdeman
a resident of Palo Verde
on Jun 11, 2019 at 10:17 am

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^^^^ So in essence, it is the banana consumers who are indirectly responsible for this migratory mess from Central America...along with the more direct CIA & complicit fruit companies.

Why not just boycott buying bananas from either retail grocery store chain & switch to other fruits instead? Are bananas that physically addictive as other illicit south of the border exports such as heroin and cocaine...or is it just the mental hankering for a simple banana causing all of these problems?

Since they do not have any pharmaceutical use or value, perhaps bananas should be jointly classified by the FDA & DEA as a Schedule One substance. Then the CIA, Dole and the United Fruit Company can turn to other tropical fruits (i.e. mangos & papayas) to fulfill their land ownership issues and clandestine political intervention strategies.

Lastly, it is difficult to imagine that everyone heading to the American border from Central America is a displaced banana plantation worker or aspiring one. I am truly amazed at the power of a banana. It seems like such a simple, innocent fruit that never hurt anybody...unless one accidentally slipped on a peel discarded by a very inconsiderate retail banana consumer.


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Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 11, 2019 at 10:27 am

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But you have no answer for who is paying for all of this - do you? Lots of questions and flip comments - lots of "imagination" - but no "connect the dots" answers as to who is paying for all of this and why is it happening now? Someone out there does know but it is not you.

And we will all be paying for this as it moves along. We cannot sustain the sheer numbers of people who are arriving on our doorsteps. [Portion removed.]


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Posted by paloverdeman
a resident of Palo Verde
on Jun 12, 2019 at 8:32 am

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^^^^Since (according to you) it is the Chaquita Banana people & Dole who are responsible for this mass migration of Central American immigrants who cannot find gainful employment picking bananas, why not simply charge the fruit companies for the related expenditures of accommodating these people?

The POTUS has a hankering for promoting tariffs and protecting the USA from unlawful immigration so a MASSIVE tariff on banana imports should do the trick...make it about $5.00 per banana. While some consumers will initially complain, once they realize its intent and purpose, most will understand and gladly switch to other more 'fruitful' alternatives.

Meanwhile the villainous fruit companies will suffer major financial losses and it will serve them right. By that time, even the CIA will not be able to restore the banana industry as no one trusts the CIA anyway.

After all is said & down, bananas will become cheaper and cheap local labor will provide the workforce once again.

The question is...are you willing to stop eating bananas to curb the migration?


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Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 12, 2019 at 9:20 am

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There is no according to me - I am simply passing on information as it pops up because the "people" on TV keep making outrages comments. Like "there is no problem at the border". That is Ms. Nancy. Major shareholder of Dole? Has multiple houses in Hawaii so is hooked into the growing area. Her father was the boss in Baltimore - the second biggest port on the east coast while he was in office. Major dock space for incoming sugar, bananas, pineapples, etc.

So the "people" on TV have now resurrected John Dean. WOW - strategic error. He was part of the "teams" that planted fake information. Not a good example.

Then he leads to E. Howard Hunt - CIA operative. Now you all have to check out his bio on Wikipedia. He is the person who concocted and carried out the removal of the president of Guatemala so they could put in a puppet government. That worked. But now a couple of years down the road he is trying to concoct the same scheme with Cuba. The Cuba operation failed big time. John Kennedy fired Dulles, head of the CIA for the massive failure. And we all know what happened to him. Yep.
Check out the Wikipedia story on him and John Dean. You then get in to the Watergate Scandal. Besides being a CIA operative he was a prolific writer of CIA operative type thrillers under his name and other names. Whole listing of books. A busy brain.

The surprise was John McCain. Check his bio on Wikipedia. He was a dare devil. Megan is the result of his third marriage. He is the person who handed off the Steel Dossier to Comey. So the "people" on TV just keep plowing along, as does your local papers, weaving stories that are coming unglued yet they are all connected to each other.

As to the banana industry I just took what I had out for the squirrels. I am not a big fan of bananas to eat. But they keep putting them out there at the market and people keep buying them. I keep checking the stickers to see who they are buying from and what countries the items are grown in.
And look forward to what "the people on TV" come up with next. And what happens to the people on the border.


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Posted by paloverdeman
a resident of Palo Verde
on Jun 12, 2019 at 9:56 am

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I'm going to stop eating bananas as well. Though a cheap and healthful fruit in many respects, it can seriously spike blood sugar on an empty stomach.

Not quite sure how many Central American immigrants are currently at the US border but perhaps a boycott or abstinence of one banana per immigrant times the millions of Americans who ordinarily consume bananas daily might have some impact on the banana industry.

As for the alleged CIA involvement with bananas, perhaps even more of a reason to avoid or boycott eating them.

Speaking of squirrels, it's too bad they can't take out the entire Central American banana industry on their own but as you have alluded to, this would only increase the number of immigrants seeking refuge in America.


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Posted by Bananas4Freedom
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Jun 12, 2019 at 3:24 pm

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this is a story about freedom. the refugees from central america are fleeing from the banana republics & seeking a new existence in the united states free from banana-related bondage.

the bananas are digesting all of this and seeking their own economic freedom from the mega tropical fruit conglomerates who are holding them hostage (i.e. dole and the united fruit company).

the CIA created this havoc to ensure the continued corporate bondage of bananas and the central american people became an afterthought.

as a result, we now have a conflict at the border and any undocumented immigrants who are allowed to enter the country may have to deal with ICE if they are found in violation of US criminal laws.

those who are against ICE intervention and promoting sanctuary cities can considered soft on crime if ICE is not allowed to detain and deport undocumented immigrants convicted of specific misdemeanors and felonies.

everybody wants to run free in america...the undocumented immigrants committing crimes, the bananas seeking their freedom from the likes of dole and the united fruit company, the CIA and its covert operations, and immigrants illegally crossing the border.

where it will all end, no one knows for sure.

meanwhile, the only banana republic flourishing is the retail clothing store with annual sales of over $9 billion per year which is even more than the corporate banana industry at $5 billion annually.

the moral of the story...there is more money in wearing your bananas than selling & eating them.






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Posted by paloverdeman
a resident of Palo Verde
on Jun 12, 2019 at 7:21 pm

paloverdeman is a registered user.

[Post removed.]


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Posted by Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 13, 2019 at 11:23 am

Resident 1-Adobe Meadows is a registered user.

[Post removed.]


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