What is a community microgrid and how does it fend off stray mylar balloons?

Wondering why this author has not included any costs for the homeowner including:

Initial Cost to purchase equipment
Time to acquire equipment
Cost to install
Cost to maintain
Fuel Source
Reliability
Downtime needed for maintenance
Life-cycle Times
Cost to dismantle
Effective cost to operate (ie--$/KWH)
Environmental costs to manufacture this equipment

All of these topics would need a lot of explanation before jumping on this bandwagon.

The idea of microgrids has been around for a while. While attractive for clusters of housing in rural areas. Not clear that it's as attractive in urban residential areas.

Not at all clear that alternative sources of energy are as clean as their advocates would have us believe. Trying to claim that the odd power outage due to mylar balloons is a reason to spend untold billions to abandon our current grid, which is very reliable, doesn't make much sense.

$1000 will buy a nice quiet portable gasoline powered 1800 watt Honda generator.

So, Lewis would a rival utility or disenfranchised ratepayers launch a (99 luft Mylar)balloons attack? Engineer, tell us all how to stop an attack from drones dropping long Mylar ribbons across the major power corridors into cities and across state lines? What happens IF this is done over the IoT by remote control? Just how much damage could one do?

"Engineer, tell us all how to stop an attack from drones dropping long Mylar ribbons across the major power corridors into cities and across state lines?"

What prevents it now is testosterone block. Terrorists are hung up on shooting, bombing, running down, knifing, and the like. Your proposal would be effective, very effective, but the preparation is too boring. I've heard a rumor our side tried it in Iran and Iraq, but no word on effects.

What does dropping long mylar ribbons across state lines accomplish?

Engineer, it appears you are not an electrical Engineer for a utility. The typical business model for a power utility is, centralized generation with distribution over power corridors. You've seen them, running across the desert from a centralized power generation source to some large population area. Many of these power corridors come across State lines to feed 'other' Metropolitan areas. An example, the Palo Verde Nuclear plant feeds Phoenix Arizona and the surrounding area, it also is sent to California and feeds many cities like San Diego. Would dropping long Mylar ribbons over these Interstate power lines cause a shutdown?

I see your point, testosterone will work to keep such things under wrap. Unless some prepubescent kids figure out a way to do this, just to see what it's like to take down an entire grid, network. This type of stuff although "out there" could take only a few 'actors', with the internet competence to coordinate several attacks across several State's grids. The bottom line there becomes, how smart do you have to be, to take the Nation's power grids down?

Power is out again tonight in Palo Alto. Is this another balloon, a fallen tree limb, or a squirrel?

Let's get the wires underground to protect our service.

"Engineer, it appears you are not an electrical Engineer for a utility."

It appears you need to learn how to spot ambiguities in your writing and resolve them. To wit, "... dropping long Mylar ribbons across the major power corridors into cities and across state lines." Dropping Mylar ribbons across major power corridors = bad outcome. Dropping Mylar ribbons across state lines = silliness.

BTW, everybody should refer to aluminized Mylar in this context. Mylar itself is a very poor electrical conductor.

[Portion removed.] A fellow that works for utilities as a troubleshooter got the opportunity to work in Iraq restoring some of the power structure destroyed by shock and awe. Most of the power transformers were destroyed. He said it looked more like an EMP event on every transformer he replaced. [Portion removed.]

I'm anxiously awaiting the next Carrington Event.

To answer some of your questions:

A Community Microgrid is a new approach for designing and operating the electric grid, based on local renewables and other distributed energy resources like energy storage and demand response. A Community Microgrid is linked to the main electric grid, but during a power outage a Community Microgrid can isolate and keep running, providing power to critical facilities. This scalable and replicable approach can save money, provide local economic stimulation, and provision secure and stable clean local energy, even during disasters. Community Microgrids deliver an unparalleled trifecta of economic, environmental, and resilience benefits across broad communities.

See more on Community Microgrids here: Web Link

Community Microgrids can't prevent outages from Mylar balloons or other causes. But they can provide communities resilience during an outage -- even keeping critical loads online indefinitely. This is something dirty diesel generators can't do, as diesel often runs out during extended disaster situations.

A grid made up of many Community Microgrids would be far more resilient to outages, which would be contained to smaller areas.

There are no costs to homeowners, as Community Microgrids are installed at commercial-scale sites like schools, municipal buildings, fire and police stations, water pumping stations, stores, and emergency shelters. That way, they benefit the entire community.

And yes, the outage last night was also caused by a Mylar balloon.

- Rosana Francescato, Communications Director, Clean Coalition

Sure, but at what cost? We are already paying some of the highest electricity costs in the country (not to mention gasoline)!

Web Link

[Portion removed.]
EMP and overload are not synonymous. "He said it looked more like an EMP event on every transformer he replaced." The only disruption of a power grid by EMP occurred in Hawaii in the early sixties due to high altitude nuclear bomb tests. It is therefore highly doubtful your friend would even know what to look for.

"Community Microgrids can't prevent outages from Mylar balloons or other causes. But they can provide communities resilience during an outage -- even keeping critical loads online indefinitely. This is something dirty diesel generators can't do, as diesel often runs out during extended disaster situations."

Thanks for the response. Hope you informed your boss about the aluminized balloons.

What feeds an isolated Community Microgrid on windless nights?

[Portion removed.]

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[Portion removed.] As for the "only" EMP was experienced in Hawaii during nuclear testing is false. India did a very thorough study of EMP damage in the 1970's. From their studies, it was found a simple section of iron pipe with a high brisance explosive inside could amplify a small injected radio signal that would propagate through a wire wrapped around the iron pipe. [Portion removed.]

Rosana Francescato, thank you for your information on the subject. [Portion removed.] As the point to "dirty diesel" running out, part of an emergency response plan would be to "insure" the diesel back up generators at primary sites like water, sewer and communications sites would be fueled and serviced regularly. When a disaster strikes the emergency plan should also have service trucks fueling these critical sites. California has an emergency plan as well as FEMA. Since we really don't know the "cause" of the disaster, like the San Andreas fault actively destroying infrastructure like natural gas lines, a stand alone "dirty generator" may be your best option in such an event.

"India did a very thorough study of EMP damage in the 1970's. From their studies, it was found a simple section of iron pipe with a high brisance explosive inside could amplify a small injected radio signal that would propagate through a wire wrapped around the iron pipe."

That's just a fancy variant on automobile ignition technology which has been used since the Model T. You know, the Maxwell-Faraday law: curl E = -dB/dt. Destroying electromagnets using explosives greatly enhances the dt effect. Check out the recent work on it at Texas Tech.

Nobody's using it to fry grid power transformers. On the other hand, geomagnetic synchrotron radiation from the Compton electrons created by gamma emissions from nudets in the ionosphere proved to be very effective grid busters in Hawaii. Also look up the AFWL Orange Book if you can find a loose copy. Their owners guard them with bared fangs.

I don't know what all this has to do with community microgrids, but I hope it helps fill in your EMP/NEMP knowledge gaps. Good luck.

Aletheia, the major power utilities like PG&E, SCE have gone to the tiered rate electricity system to get their ratepayers to "save energy" is one excuse, the other reason is to pay for power at spot pricing from outside generators at a premium price per MWh. This also allows the utility to "adjust" the amount of KWh used by the ratepayers in each tier. This is supposed to be due to the load requirements on the grid also. As Rosana Francescato replied about micro-grids, if you live in your own home, not renting or an apartment, then get your own solar PV system with battery storage. You don't even have to "connect" to the grid to use solar PV. One could split their home's circuit breaker panel and break out some lights and fans dedicated to D.C. only circuits. The grid could go down and you'd still have lights, fans and could use a small inverter to keep the refrigerator on or even an Oxygen generator with those who have Emphysema. Pay it forward it pays for itself over the long run.

[Post removed.]

"get your own solar PV system with battery storage. ... The grid could go down and you'd still have lights..."

And, on a clear day you'd still have lights after the batteries run down.

Or, at night you could shine a battery of diesel-generator-powered floodlights on your solar panels and you could have lights at night and maybe recharge the batteries too.

Well, happy fourth of July in celebration of the first Amendment of the U.S. Constitution there Moderator. Did the false "Engineer" cry foul and have the last post removed? Perhaps I hit a little to close to home on the supposed "reliability" of the overall grid system? Censorship is NOT going to protect people, correct and reliable information can, if used properly.

Wow, a little trolling by Vasche Lamou? "Or, at night you could shine a battery of diesel-generator-powered floodlights on your solar panels and you could have lights at night and maybe recharge the batteries too."

Correct design of the "system" would meet criteria of "several days" of battery backup to power lights, and fans in the home. You don't even know the actual load an LED light places on the system do you? How about ceiling fans? How much does an energy star refrigerator require? How does the "duty cycle" of each attached load effect the battery drain? You have NO experience with solar PV or battery storage, it shows and is very sad in a sunny State such as California.

I'm loving this: you could shine a battery of diesel-generator-powered floodlights on your solar panels and you could have lights at night and maybe recharge the batteries too

Use energy to create energy. Ahhhh, anyone smell a Perpetual Motion startup, here?

Happy I-Day, y'all...

"Did the false [sic] "Engineer" cry foul and have the last post removed?"

No. Sorry I missed it. Please repost the original.


"Well, happy fourth of July in celebration of the first Amendment of the U.S. Constitution"

Wrong on two counts.

1. The First Amendment is properly celebrated on December 15, the anniversary of its adoption, not on July 4.

2. It only enjoins the government, not privately owned enterprises.

They CANNOT stay away from this thread! LOL :)

The news of today: Web Link

Just trying to run an out of date and poorly Engineered grid system is beginning to take its toll on Southern California families. No balloons needed. Until the utilities catch up with energy storage, this may be the typical hot day in California for quite a while.

"Until the utilities catch up with energy storage, this may be the typical hot day in California for quite a while."

They only need to add peaker generation capacity. The technology has existed for decades.

Yeah, Peaker plants in California have been around since Grey Davis was "fired" for allowing the grid infrastructure to fall to "deregulation" incompetency in 1999.
Web Link
Natural gas is a "fuel" resource that needs to be competently stored for reliable peak usage, it doesn't seem to be so. Aliso Canyon has proven that storage infrastructure is unreliable. All of this storage and all of these maintenance problems. Low bid wins again, the ratepayers get screwed in the long run.

"Yeah, Peaker plants in California have been around since Grey Davis was "fired" for allowing the grid infrastructure to fall to "deregulation" incompetency in 1999."

You forget that 100% of the Legislature voted for that dereg. Veto impossible. But "Kenny Boy" Lay's Enron loved it. You also seem unaware that peakers have been around for decades before that.

"Natural gas is a "fuel" resource that needs to be competently stored for reliable peak usage, it doesn't seem to be so."

Uh-uh. Peakers use a variety of fuels, including mains gas. Read beyond your solar panel brochures.

To your earlier point: Why do you want to site undetonated bombs around in a community? That's what big charged batteries amount to, you (should) know. How many kilotons-equivalent are you proposing?

North Korea does not need nukes. Our infrastructure is so backward that even a party balloon can knock out the lights. America needs major upgrades.But tax breaks for corporations and the rich do not provide the funds.

Wow, an Engineer,Why do I want to site undetonated bombs around the community? Really, REALLY? When that 53 inch natural gas line blew up and took out an entire block, how many kilotons was that? On your block, how many cars with gas in them could create "bombs around the community". DUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH!

"Why do I want to site undetonated bombs around the community? Really, REALLY?"

Good point. I should have asked, Why do you want to site *even more* undetonated bombs around in a community?

For a Solarman you do keep odd hours.