News

As Santa Clara County nears herd immunity goal, vaccine hesitancy persists

Survey finds misinformation, fear of unknown long-term health effects of the vaccines lead some people to resist immunization

Yvonne Guereca, a pharmacy technician at El Camino Hospital, dilutes each vial of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine with an injection of 0.9% sodium chloride. Photo by Federica Armstrong.

Misinformation and fear of unknown long-term health effects remain potent drivers to keeping some Santa Clara County residents from receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, according to a study presented to the Board of Supervisors on Tuesday.

The county is nearing its milestone against COVID-19, with 80% of residents ages 12 and up having received at least one dose of the vaccine and 71% fully vaccinated, county testing and vaccine officer Dr. Marty Fenstersheib told the board.

But a study by EMC Research conducted for the county found that there are persistent pockets of resistance to the vaccines — largely among parents of youth and some groups of men. Conducted the week of June 7, the survey of 28 participants indicated that they are still concerned about the safety of the vaccines, the study found.

During Tuesday's board meeting, a representative of EMC Research said its qualitative study of vaccine-hesitant residents focused on a group of eight parents of unvaccinated 12- to 17-year-olds; a group of seven unvaccinated white men ages 50 to 64; an English-language group of eight Latino men ages 18 to 29; and individual phone interviews with five Latino men ages 18 to 29.

In the parents group, many said they were generally supportive of the COVID-19 vaccines and were vaccinated themselves, but they were worried about their children getting immunized. Their concerns focus on the potential long-term impacts on adolescents, including the possibility of infertility or permanent genetic harm. The parents want more time to pass and more data before deciding on whether to have their children vaccinated.

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The study also found that parents said their children's autonomy and preference would weigh heavily on their decision regarding vaccination. Some said they would encourage their children to be vaccinated eventually while others said they would wait to see if it becomes a requirement. The parents said they expect vaccination would be mandated for school, sports and other after-school activities. "Exclusion" from these activities would be a motivating factor for encouraging their children to receive a vaccine.

Dayna Chung goes over instructions with Hong Lu, a licensed vocational nurse at Stanford Health Care, before Chung's children receive the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine at Cesar Chavez Ravenswood Middle School in East Palo Alto on May 15, 2021. Photo by Daniela Beltran B.

The parents didn't feel a sense of urgency for their children to be vaccinated, since kids generally have a less severe reaction to COVID-19. Some are aware that children can spread the virus even if they are asymptomatic or don't become seriously ill, but achieving herd immunity and reducing the risk to others doesn't factor into their decision-making, the research found.

Parents said they worry about the accuracy of information their children are getting regarding the vaccines. The children are "clearly influenced" by their peers, particularly through social media. Some parents said their children want to be vaccinated because their friends have done so, the research found.

Men remain more entrenched

Most unvaccinated men in the different groups consider COVID-19 to be a real disease, but said the response to the pandemic has been overblown. They want public health restrictions to go away and don't think they are personally at risk for serious illness, the research found.

The middle-aged white participants were focused on the impact of the virus and vaccines on them personally, but they didn't have much concern about the effect on the community. Likewise, surveyed men in the Latino groups had a similar viewpoint, but they did express concern for their families. Several continue social distancing to keep their families safe, according to the study.

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The male participants said they don't trust the quick rollout of the vaccines and the "new" technology behind it. They fear unknown, potential long-term effects of the vaccines more than COVID-19, they said.

The young Latino men said their minds are not entirely closed to getting a vaccine, but they want to wait. They don't feel they need it and are not in any rush, the research found. The young Latino participants were appealed by the idea of being leaders in their communities and protecting their families, however.

The white and Latino male groups said they strongly resent the idea of vaccine passports. They believed the passports are inevitable and that there will be future restrictions in the Bay Area for people who remain unvaccinated.

Returning "back to normal" is compelling to them, but coercion and incentives aren't going to sway them, they maintained. While the state and county have held giveaways such as a lottery and free tickets to concerts and sporting events, most of the men claimed they aren't enticed by incentives. Some see them as proof that the vaccines are flawed if the state must bribe people to become immunized. They believe "other" people would be enticed by the incentives, however, particularly given pandemic-related economic hardships.

The group of white men also felt that messages about protecting their families and communities are manipulative. They expressed concern about COVID-19 complications that can cause erectile dysfunction.

The white men appreciated receiving information about vaccines in a straightforward way, such as explanations of how the mRNA vaccines were developed and the age of the technology, compared to messages that were obvious attempts at persuasion. They didn't want to be pressured or shamed into being vaccinated, the study found.

The men in all groups said they generally trust their doctors, but some said they felt that doctors are under pressure to "sell" the vaccines. Some reported that they wouldn't listen to their physician if they were "told" to be vaccinated, but they would trust them as an information source.

The county still needs 85,000 residents to reach an 85% vaccination rate — the number he said would put it solidly into the herd immunity category and a point where the disease would no longer spread. If the county vaccinates 2,000 people per day, it could reach its goal by the end of July, Fenstersheib said.

The county is making a big push to make the vaccines available closer to where people live and work in more community-based settings such as schools and some businesses. They also hope the survey will help find ways to reach those who are resistant.

Fenstersheib and Dr. Sara Cody, the county's health officer, have said there's no evidence that the vaccines cause the kinds of harm the survey participants said they fear. Persistence of this kind of misinformation has been one of the largest barriers county health officials said they've previously faced. During a press conference on Monday, Cody said all evidence has shown the vaccines are safe and highly effective in preventing serious COVID-19 infection.

The drastic reduction in the number of cases and deaths is showing the vaccines' effectiveness. The seven-day average of positive COVID-19 cases is now at 27; in the last two weeks there have been 11 deaths — a 67% reduction compared to mid-May, Fenstersheib said.

The wild cards continue to be COVID-19 variants, which are mutations of the virus as it passes through populations. The highly concerning Delta variant, which emerged in India and is now prevalent in the United Kingdom, is also present in the U.S. It appears to be more contagious and is more likely to cause hospitalizations, he said.

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As Santa Clara County nears herd immunity goal, vaccine hesitancy persists

Survey finds misinformation, fear of unknown long-term health effects of the vaccines lead some people to resist immunization

by / Palo Alto Weekly

Uploaded: Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:11 pm

Misinformation and fear of unknown long-term health effects remain potent drivers to keeping some Santa Clara County residents from receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, according to a study presented to the Board of Supervisors on Tuesday.

The county is nearing its milestone against COVID-19, with 80% of residents ages 12 and up having received at least one dose of the vaccine and 71% fully vaccinated, county testing and vaccine officer Dr. Marty Fenstersheib told the board.

But a study by EMC Research conducted for the county found that there are persistent pockets of resistance to the vaccines — largely among parents of youth and some groups of men. Conducted the week of June 7, the survey of 28 participants indicated that they are still concerned about the safety of the vaccines, the study found.

During Tuesday's board meeting, a representative of EMC Research said its qualitative study of vaccine-hesitant residents focused on a group of eight parents of unvaccinated 12- to 17-year-olds; a group of seven unvaccinated white men ages 50 to 64; an English-language group of eight Latino men ages 18 to 29; and individual phone interviews with five Latino men ages 18 to 29.

In the parents group, many said they were generally supportive of the COVID-19 vaccines and were vaccinated themselves, but they were worried about their children getting immunized. Their concerns focus on the potential long-term impacts on adolescents, including the possibility of infertility or permanent genetic harm. The parents want more time to pass and more data before deciding on whether to have their children vaccinated.

The study also found that parents said their children's autonomy and preference would weigh heavily on their decision regarding vaccination. Some said they would encourage their children to be vaccinated eventually while others said they would wait to see if it becomes a requirement. The parents said they expect vaccination would be mandated for school, sports and other after-school activities. "Exclusion" from these activities would be a motivating factor for encouraging their children to receive a vaccine.

The parents didn't feel a sense of urgency for their children to be vaccinated, since kids generally have a less severe reaction to COVID-19. Some are aware that children can spread the virus even if they are asymptomatic or don't become seriously ill, but achieving herd immunity and reducing the risk to others doesn't factor into their decision-making, the research found.

Parents said they worry about the accuracy of information their children are getting regarding the vaccines. The children are "clearly influenced" by their peers, particularly through social media. Some parents said their children want to be vaccinated because their friends have done so, the research found.

Most unvaccinated men in the different groups consider COVID-19 to be a real disease, but said the response to the pandemic has been overblown. They want public health restrictions to go away and don't think they are personally at risk for serious illness, the research found.

The middle-aged white participants were focused on the impact of the virus and vaccines on them personally, but they didn't have much concern about the effect on the community. Likewise, surveyed men in the Latino groups had a similar viewpoint, but they did express concern for their families. Several continue social distancing to keep their families safe, according to the study.

The male participants said they don't trust the quick rollout of the vaccines and the "new" technology behind it. They fear unknown, potential long-term effects of the vaccines more than COVID-19, they said.

The young Latino men said their minds are not entirely closed to getting a vaccine, but they want to wait. They don't feel they need it and are not in any rush, the research found. The young Latino participants were appealed by the idea of being leaders in their communities and protecting their families, however.

The white and Latino male groups said they strongly resent the idea of vaccine passports. They believed the passports are inevitable and that there will be future restrictions in the Bay Area for people who remain unvaccinated.

Returning "back to normal" is compelling to them, but coercion and incentives aren't going to sway them, they maintained. While the state and county have held giveaways such as a lottery and free tickets to concerts and sporting events, most of the men claimed they aren't enticed by incentives. Some see them as proof that the vaccines are flawed if the state must bribe people to become immunized. They believe "other" people would be enticed by the incentives, however, particularly given pandemic-related economic hardships.

The group of white men also felt that messages about protecting their families and communities are manipulative. They expressed concern about COVID-19 complications that can cause erectile dysfunction.

The white men appreciated receiving information about vaccines in a straightforward way, such as explanations of how the mRNA vaccines were developed and the age of the technology, compared to messages that were obvious attempts at persuasion. They didn't want to be pressured or shamed into being vaccinated, the study found.

The men in all groups said they generally trust their doctors, but some said they felt that doctors are under pressure to "sell" the vaccines. Some reported that they wouldn't listen to their physician if they were "told" to be vaccinated, but they would trust them as an information source.

The county still needs 85,000 residents to reach an 85% vaccination rate — the number he said would put it solidly into the herd immunity category and a point where the disease would no longer spread. If the county vaccinates 2,000 people per day, it could reach its goal by the end of July, Fenstersheib said.

The county is making a big push to make the vaccines available closer to where people live and work in more community-based settings such as schools and some businesses. They also hope the survey will help find ways to reach those who are resistant.

Fenstersheib and Dr. Sara Cody, the county's health officer, have said there's no evidence that the vaccines cause the kinds of harm the survey participants said they fear. Persistence of this kind of misinformation has been one of the largest barriers county health officials said they've previously faced. During a press conference on Monday, Cody said all evidence has shown the vaccines are safe and highly effective in preventing serious COVID-19 infection.

The drastic reduction in the number of cases and deaths is showing the vaccines' effectiveness. The seven-day average of positive COVID-19 cases is now at 27; in the last two weeks there have been 11 deaths — a 67% reduction compared to mid-May, Fenstersheib said.

The wild cards continue to be COVID-19 variants, which are mutations of the virus as it passes through populations. The highly concerning Delta variant, which emerged in India and is now prevalent in the United Kingdom, is also present in the U.S. It appears to be more contagious and is more likely to cause hospitalizations, he said.

Comments

Blarney Trouble
Registered user
Downtown North
on Jun 23, 2021 at 5:50 pm
Blarney Trouble, Downtown North
Registered user
on Jun 23, 2021 at 5:50 pm

"The county still needs 85,000 residents to reach an 85% vaccination rate — the number he said would put it solidly into the herd immunity category"

Who says 85% is "herd immunity"? Fauci said: 70%, then 75%, then 80%, admitting he "moved the goal posts" because he thought the public would accept it. No science, just shooting from his hip. Same as his comments on masks: "You don't need a mask, they can't capture the small particles of Covid 19" (because he wanted to save the masks for Health Care workers first); then Fauci said "you need a mask, but two masks are better". No science, just Fauci blather.

Also, how many have achieved natural immunity due to having survived Covid19, and have the antibodies? At least 5% up to 20% have the antibodies due to natural immunity (after recover from Covid19), so why are they not included in the herd immunity population?

Please follow the science, not the politics, of this pandemic.


Jim Davis
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Jun 23, 2021 at 5:57 pm
Jim Davis, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Jun 23, 2021 at 5:57 pm

Some people (not anti-vaxers but the reluctant to get innoculated) are waiting for some form of an official FDA approval.

With the Delta variant running wild and the upcoming fall flu season, a number of these folks may have to alter their thinking


Willis Freeman
Registered user
East Palo Alto
on Jun 24, 2021 at 7:23 am
Willis Freeman, East Palo Alto
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 7:23 am
Johannes Siefert
Registered user
another community
on Jun 24, 2021 at 8:21 am
Johannes Siefert, another community
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 8:21 am

There is no FDA approval at present to confirm the overall safety and efficacy of these various anti-Covid innoculations.

And while I have chosen to get vaccinated (completed my #2 last week), the post-innoculation side effects vary including mild fever, flu-like symptoms, muscle ache and fatigue.

And it remains unclear whether a vaccinated individual can still pass on Covid-19 to others or whether one can still contract it after receiving these shots.

The vaccinations remain a crapshoot at best and they are only a precautionary measure.


Bystander
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jun 24, 2021 at 9:18 am
Bystander, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 9:18 am

Let's hope the areas where only 50% are vaccinated can do better. Those are the troubling numbers (and places) to me. For the most part, we in Santa Clara County have done our part.


Jack Whitaker
Registered user
Menlo Park
on Jun 24, 2021 at 11:36 am
Jack Whitaker, Menlo Park
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 11:36 am

Haiti has a 0% vaccination rate because the government refused receipt of the Astra-Zenica vaccine due to blood clotting reports.


William Hitchens
Registered user
Mountain View
on Jun 24, 2021 at 12:37 pm
William Hitchens, Mountain View
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 12:37 pm

I read recently that Santa Clara County has the highest vaccination percentages of any reporting county in the USA. Could this possibly be due to the extremely high percentage of highly intelligent, highly-educated people in SCC??? Educational achievement is the highest predictive factor that correlates with people's political and social views, and vaccination unfortunately has become apolitical and a social hot button issue thanks to "misinformation" campaigns by unscrupulous or highly ignorant organizations and people.


chris
Registered user
University South
on Jun 24, 2021 at 2:13 pm
chris, University South
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 2:13 pm

Hitchens,

SCC has the highest vaccination % of any large county in the country. There are numerous mid and small sized counties that are higher, such as Marin.


chris
Registered user
University South
on Jun 24, 2021 at 2:31 pm
chris, University South
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 2:31 pm

Blarney,

Where is the scientific evidence that a COVID-19 provides a durable and long-lasting immunity?


Blarney Trouble
Registered user
Downtown North
on Jun 24, 2021 at 2:44 pm
Blarney Trouble, Downtown North
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 2:44 pm

"Where is the scientific evidence that a COVID-19 provides a durable and long-lasting immunity?"

I never do anything for my children that they can't do for themselves, so look to google for your answers. Lots of doctors have answered your question already. Get yourself educated so you won't be laughed at by William Hitchens from above.

"Durable and long-lasting", you mean like the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines? Like those vaccines that Fauci said earlier this month will possibly need a booster since they are not "long-lasting"?


The Voice of Palo Alto
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Jun 24, 2021 at 2:45 pm
The Voice of Palo Alto, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 2:45 pm

1. [Portion removed.] The expectation that he will always be correct is not realistic. The information changes constantly and he can’t predict the future. Not to mention the media interviews him every 2 minutes and then plays the “I gotcha!!” game with him. Stop with the silly Fauci blame game. It’s not his fault.

2. “Many black families have not forgotten about the syphilis 'vaccinations'/ No FDA approval either...just another white racist experiment”
No it’s not. If this was targeting people of color again like the syphilis vaccinations then why are so many white people getting vaccinated? Only people in our country think this way. When vaccinations opened up in India(people of color) 8.6 million people in India rolled up their sleeves. But sure roll the dice with Covid. It’s your choice. Also, the vaccines are approved for emergency use right now but will be fully approved soon enough.
Web Link /> 3. “The vaccinations remain a crapshoot at best and they are only a precautionary measure.”
Finally. This. Sigh. No they aren’t. This just in:
Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine.

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 853,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 0.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

Wow. That’s pretty good for a “crapshoot” and all.
Web Link


No heat
Registered user
Fairmeadow
on Jun 24, 2021 at 3:37 pm
No heat, Fairmeadow
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 3:37 pm

The fraction of population vaccinated needed for herd immunity has gone up over time because we've gotten more infectious variants, so each infected person infects a larger number of people, and because the vaccines used in the US are slightly less effective against the new variants.

The Emergency Use Authorization of the vaccines in the US happened *after* a sample of tens of thousands of volunteers took the vaccines, and a similar group of people did. The ones who took it got infected at a much lower rate. Web Link />
That's how we know these vaccines work, and that they're reasonably safe. The pre-authorization studies didn't rule out the possibility that there are side effects which are so rare that only 1-2 people per million get them, but when faced with a disease which kills over 1% of the people it infects, the decision to get the vaccine is a no-brainer.

That's why I got vaccinated, and why I encourage everybody else to do the same. FREE appointments here: Web Link


Jane
Registered user
Ventura
on Jun 24, 2021 at 10:55 pm
Jane, Ventura
Registered user
on Jun 24, 2021 at 10:55 pm

Some people are waiting to see what the longer term data have to say about risks and side effects. It's not unreasonable for individuals to want to wait a few months until they've been out for an actual whole year. There's a reason why the various vaccines out there are not fully approved, and why they keep stopping and starting distribution of different ones.

This is still shaking out. You don't know what people's family history or personal medical history are, or why they may want to wait. Got a family history of clotting disorders? Had certain cancer treatments recently? Etc etc, things that increase adverse reactions to immunizations? Maybe it makes sense to be in the back of the line until there's more data. 85% acceptance is going to be quite an accomplishment.

[Portion removed.]



Online Name
Registered user
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Jun 25, 2021 at 6:26 am
Online Name, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
Registered user
on Jun 25, 2021 at 6:26 am

@Jane, 90% of those getting infected by the new Delta strain and the vast majority of those now dying from it are those refusing to be vaccinated.

Not trolling, just reporting a fact.

Speaking of Trump, have you followed the recent reports that A) 900 Secret Service agents got Covid because of his refusal to mask up and B) that he almost died from it and STILL underestimated the severity of Covid. For OTHERS. While getting special treatment for himself.


TimR
Registered user
Downtown North
on Jun 25, 2021 at 8:32 am
TimR, Downtown North
Registered user
on Jun 25, 2021 at 8:32 am

SCC is 25% Asian, so why weren't they represented in this study? Seems strange to leave them out.


Nayeli
Registered user
Midtown
on Jun 25, 2021 at 8:53 am
Nayeli, Midtown
Registered user
on Jun 25, 2021 at 8:53 am

@ The Voice of Palo Alto: "Trumpian?"

For all of the valid criticisms of former President Trump, I think that you're misguided in brining him up in this discussion. I believe that the shining highlight of his administration will not be the historically great economy but the success of "Operation Warp Speed" -- the monumental rapid development and implementation of vaccines to combat COVID-19.

Whereas President Biden criticized Trump's "handling" of the pandemic, he is always quick to accept credit for the fruit of the Trump Administration's preeminent COVID-19 response.

I think that the best method of getting more people to become vaccinated is to constantly bombard them with the message of IT IS FREE FOR EVERYONE, WHY IT IS IMPORTANT and WHERE TO GO. You'd be surprised by how many people don't know.


Sam Willoughby
Registered user
Stanford
on Jun 25, 2021 at 9:10 am
Sam Willoughby, Stanford
Registered user
on Jun 25, 2021 at 9:10 am

"Whereas President Biden criticized Trump's "handling" of the pandemic, he is always quick to accept credit for the fruit of the Trump Administration's preeminent COVID-19 response."

Concurring....President Trump initiated Project Warp Speed and Biden is getting most of the credit for it.

The 2021 administration change and the subsequent implementation of the mass vaccination program had a lot to do with this.

Another example...the Obamaphone program was actually initiated during the late stages of George W. Bush's administration but implemented during Obama's first term in office as it takes time to get the balls rolling.


"I think that the best method of getting more people to become vaccinated is to constantly bombard them with the message of IT IS FREE FOR EVERYONE,"

And include some sort of monetary promotion like they do with Publisher's Clearinghouse...no purchase required.

Gavin Newsom has already implemented this concept.


No heat
Registered user
Fairmeadow
on Jun 25, 2021 at 9:26 am
No heat, Fairmeadow
Registered user
on Jun 25, 2021 at 9:26 am

@Jane Moderna started phase 3 trials - where they gave the vaccine to tens of thousands of people, on June 27, 2020, almost exactly a year ago. Web Link />
If you were waiting for a year to pass from when we started giving the vaccine to large numbers of people, schedule yourself for an appointment next week. Web Link


Bystander
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jun 25, 2021 at 9:30 am
Bystander, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Jun 25, 2021 at 9:30 am

I think the best way to get the message across is to remind people that most of the recent deaths are in people who were unvaccinated. Tell them that not only are the numbers of positive cases way down, but that the numbers of serious cases requiring hospitalization are way down and that those hospital stays are much shorter. This is all due to vaccines.

People think they are making intelligent decisions for whatever reason. The numbers are still being broadcast on a daily basis. But it is only understanding what the data really means that shows how the vaccines are working to fight the virus.

We are winning this battle because the serious side effects for vaccinated people who encounter the virus show that the vaccines are working. The good news is that the vaccines are making the difference. The data proves the vaccines are working.

The virus is not going away, but for vaccinated people we are winning and that is the success story. Like the common cold, or like many other diseases, it is still going to be around. But being able to get vaccinated and then live a fairly normal life without fear is now a reality.


The Voice of Palo Alto
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Jun 25, 2021 at 10:43 am
The Voice of Palo Alto, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Jun 25, 2021 at 10:43 am

1. Approval vs. EUA:
Both authorization and approval are rigorous processes that look at the safety and efficacy of a vaccine. A key difference between the two is that at least two months of follow-up data from phase 3 clinical trials are considered for authorization, versus at least six months for approval. The FDA will take several months to review the full set of data before granting approval. With nearly 300 million doses administered in the U.S., "there's nothing about that review process that's going to reveal anything we don't know." "Yes, it's kind of a formal stamp of approval, but I don't think it really provides much more than what we already know," he said. "We have more data on vaccine safety than with any other vaccine, even before the review of the full approval." "If you wait a month or two or three, you're exposing yourself to risk that is unnecessary and preventable," he said. So you know…it’s not “still shaking out.”
Web Link /> 2. Yes. There are some exceptions to the rule for people who may have a medical issue with taking the vaccine. That’s legitimate but doesn’t represent a majority.
3. Trump did nothing but name it OWS. It was an empty shell until Biden took over. The scientists did all of the work. He also inherited the economy and did nothing for that either. Wait…he golfed.
[Portion removed.]


Blarney Trouble
Registered user
Downtown North
on Jun 25, 2021 at 10:54 am
Blarney Trouble, Downtown North
Registered user
on Jun 25, 2021 at 10:54 am

Lots of comments on why the unvaccinated should get the jab.... and the "99.99% of current cases/deaths are from unvaccinated", well, how many of current cases/deaths are from those with natural immunity? Basically zero.

So, what about the 5-20% who have natural immunity? They survived Covid19, have the antibodies and natural immunity at least as strong a the vaccines, so why should they get the jab? Science please, no emotional non-scientific arguments please.


John B. Sails
Registered user
Midtown
on Jun 27, 2021 at 1:08 pm
John B. Sails, Midtown
Registered user
on Jun 27, 2021 at 1:08 pm

Hey, Mr. Voice: I am sorry that the moderators ended the other topic. I don't mind being disagreed with. I think debate is good. One side only is not democracy. However, your cited evidence was from early May. I have been to two Hawaiian Islands since then and the California governor's 'fully vaxxed don't have to wear masks' date was at least 5-6 weeks later. So, Was that really responsive to our discussion on current fully vaccinated mask wearing?


Justin Turley
Registered user
Barron Park
on Jun 27, 2021 at 2:16 pm
Justin Turley, Barron Park
Registered user
on Jun 27, 2021 at 2:16 pm

If one was unfortunate enough to contract Covid-19 but fortunate to survive, I would trust the human body's natural immunity mechanism VS a vaccine that hasn't received FDA approval to date.


John B. Sails
Registered user
Midtown
on Jun 27, 2021 at 3:04 pm
John B. Sails, Midtown
Registered user
on Jun 27, 2021 at 3:04 pm

I am a vax guy, and a democrat. However, in support of what Mr. Turley said, I am open minded enough to consider that Rand Paul's opinion is probably also correct that those who contacted and defeated the virus have antibodies now that are similarly effective as the vaccine.


Homeless And Satisfied In PA
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jun 27, 2021 at 3:52 pm
Homeless And Satisfied In PA, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Jun 27, 2021 at 3:52 pm

No one in the scientific community has a complete understanding of the SARS Covid-2 virus and its mutations including the current coronavirus and recently reported Delta variant.

And one cannot compare the current Covid-19 vaccines in the same light or on the same page as the more traditional vaccines that have proven track records spanning decades.

Getting vaccinated is an option and should remain so.


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Jun 28, 2021 at 7:13 pm
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Jun 28, 2021 at 7:13 pm

If people are going back to work a lot of companies are requiring that the returning empolyees have the shots. If you are going to be with people in a close-up work environment then worrying about Covid shoud not interfere with getting the job done.


John B. Sails
Registered user
Midtown
on Jun 30, 2021 at 6:01 am
John B. Sails, Midtown
Registered user
on Jun 30, 2021 at 6:01 am

No doubt. If you like cruise ships and going to sporting events and concerts, you should be pro-Vax. Good for San Mateo County. They are smarter than us. Just would like the messaging in P.A. to be more supportive of getting vaxxed. Sometimes it seems to me we have two sophists arguing on behalf of the official Palo Alto position on everything, who is more holy: person one says, 'well, I am fully vaxxed but still wear my mask in the car when I drive alone.' and the other says, 'yeah, you're a pretty good person, but what about the Delta variant? Don't you care? That's why I am fully vaxxed, but still wear a mask when I ride my bike outside, and while I am home with my family, and even when I take a shower!' Can't be too careful, my good man.! You're the most caring person. You win. Everyone else? You're banned.

=absolutely terrible messaging. Wearing a mask when fully vaxxed tells the non-vax people that deep down, the vaxxed doubt its effectiveness, so they still fearfully wear a mask. =medically false.


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