News

Bay Area extends — and loosens — stay-at-home orders

Construction activities, gardening work can resume this Monday

The Bay Area's stay-at-home orders will stretch on until at least the end of May, though construction workers, gardeners and outdoor retailers that can accommodate physical distancing can get back to business as early as Monday, county officials announced Wednesday.

The new order in Santa Clara County, which Dr. Sara Cody, the county's health officer issued Wednesday, represents the Bay Area's first attempt to loosen the shelter-at-home directives that health officers across the region issued on March 16, when COVID-19 cases were rapidly climbing and officials were preparing for a larger surge. The order also lifts prohibitions on outdoor spaces such as skate parks, which do not involve shared equipment or physical contact.

Health officials at Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, San Francisco and San Mateo counties, as well as the city of Berkeley, announced similar measures Wednesday. The jurisdictions had 7,253 confirmed cases and 266 deaths collectively as of Tuesday.

The new order also allows golf courses to reopen. However, golf courses must continue to remain closed under the statewide order, which supersedes the local ordinance. (Editor's note: The state revised its order on April 30 to allow individual golfers who walk the course and do not use a cart.)

But even as it lifts some restrictions, Santa Clara County's approach also reflects the cautious approach that counties throughout California, as well as state officials, have taken to reopening businesses. Restaurants with dine-in service, bars, hair salons and other businesses that are starting to reopen in other states will remain closed in the county — and the state — for weeks, possibly months.

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The new order extends most of the current shelter-at-home prohibitions until May 31. They were set to expire this Sunday.

In making her announcement, Cody highlighted the county's progress in managing the pandemic. The county, she said, now accounts for fewer than 5% of the cases in California and just a fraction of the nation's case total, which is now more than 1 million. As of Tuesday, the county had 2,122 confirmed cases and 106 deaths related to COVID-19.

Cody said the goal is to move from the types of "broad-based mitigations" that had been in place since March 17 to a "more focused approach" targeting vulnerable populations.

"What we are hoping is because we have been extraordinarily successful in our region in suppressing cases, flattening the curve and decreasing the number of new cases that we have every day, we are hoping to successfully transition to a point where we can be more focused," Cody said at a news conference at the County Government Center in San Jose.

The order also allows nurseries, landscapers, gardeners and other businesses that primarily provide outdoor services to reopen (which does not include dining establishments with outdoor seating).

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The March prohibition on gardening has been particularly contentious, with many Palo Alto residents and some city leaders questioning the county's decision to ban an outdoor activity that typically includes very little social interaction.

Palo Alto City Manager Ed Shikada said last week that the city has received more calls about gardening than about any other topic, with some complaining about gardening at a neighboring property and others complaining about the ban. Councilman Greg Tanaka aligned himself with the latter at the April 20 council meeting, where he described the gardening ban as "truly bizarre."

Cody said the county is basing its modifications to the heath orders on five indicators: whether the number of total COVID-19 cases in the community is flattening or decreasing; whether the number of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 is flat or decreasing; whether there is an adequate supply of personal protective equipment to protect all health care workers; whether the county is meeting its need for testing residents who are in vulnerable populations or in high-risk settings or occupations; and whether the county has the capacity to investigate all cases and trace all their contacts, isolating those who are infected or exposed.

"We have already made significant progress on many of these indicators and we need to make sure we don't slip backwards," Cody said. "Our goal is to gingerly chart a course to be the most health-protective."

The announcement by Cody mirrors in some ways the strategy that Gov. Gavin Newsom announced on Tuesday for reopening business across the state. Newsom said he plans to transition "in weeks, not months" into a stage where some businesses can reopen.

Dr. Sonya Angell, the state's public health officer, said in a Tuesday presentation that this stage, known as Stage 2, will focus on "low-risk sectors" such as retailers that can provide curbside pickup, offices where telework is not possible and manufacturers that had not been deemed "essential" under the existing order.

Angell also said the second stage can include opening more parks and trails, many of which have been closed to the public over the past six weeks because of concern over physical distancing.

Newsom and Angell also indicated that it will be months before the state enters Stage 3 and businesses that require close proximity between staff and customers can reopen.

"Those are things like getting your haircut, getting your nails done, doing anything that has (a) very close, inherent relationship with other people, where proximity is very close. We need a thoughtful process to ensure that people don't put themselves at great risk in doing those activities," Angell said.

What's allowed — and what's not

A modified shelter-at-home order kicks in on May 4 in six Bay Area counties including Santa Clara and San Mateo. It eases restrictions on outdoor businesses, outdoor activities, construction and real estate transactions. Here's a quick summary of what is and is not allowed.

Gardeners and landscapers: Under the March 16 stay-at-home order, gardeners and landscapers were allowed to perform only essential work needed to maintain the safety of a property. Now, they are permitted to resume all work.

Construction: Before, only construction of public infrastructure and of residential developments that included affordable housing was permitted. Now, all construction has been added to the list of "essential business" and thus is permitted.

Real estate: Under the March 16 order, real estate business was not allowed, although the rule that was eased under the county's March 31 updated order, which allowed virtual tours of properties. Now, real estate has been added to the county's list of "essential business." Agents can show a property in person, with proper social distancing and a limit of two clients at a time, even if people still reside in the home.

Outdoor spaces: Golf courses are allowed under the new county order to reopen. On April 30, the state updated its shelter order to state that individual golfers can play so long as they walk the course and do not use a cart. Dog parks remain closed under both state and county orders because they "encourage gathering." Tennis courts are not explicitly mentioned in the county order, but sports in which equipment is shared are prohibited, except when played by members of the same household.

Find comprehensive coverage on the Midpeninsula's response to the new coronavirus by Palo Alto Online, the Mountain View Voice and the Almanac here.

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Bay Area extends — and loosens — stay-at-home orders

Construction activities, gardening work can resume this Monday

by / Palo Alto Weekly

Uploaded: Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 12:10 pm
Updated: Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 9:33 pm

The Bay Area's stay-at-home orders will stretch on until at least the end of May, though construction workers, gardeners and outdoor retailers that can accommodate physical distancing can get back to business as early as Monday, county officials announced Wednesday.

The new order in Santa Clara County, which Dr. Sara Cody, the county's health officer issued Wednesday, represents the Bay Area's first attempt to loosen the shelter-at-home directives that health officers across the region issued on March 16, when COVID-19 cases were rapidly climbing and officials were preparing for a larger surge. The order also lifts prohibitions on outdoor spaces such as skate parks, which do not involve shared equipment or physical contact.

Health officials at Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, San Francisco and San Mateo counties, as well as the city of Berkeley, announced similar measures Wednesday. The jurisdictions had 7,253 confirmed cases and 266 deaths collectively as of Tuesday.

The new order also allows golf courses to reopen. However, golf courses must continue to remain closed under the statewide order, which supersedes the local ordinance. (Editor's note: The state revised its order on April 30 to allow individual golfers who walk the course and do not use a cart.)

But even as it lifts some restrictions, Santa Clara County's approach also reflects the cautious approach that counties throughout California, as well as state officials, have taken to reopening businesses. Restaurants with dine-in service, bars, hair salons and other businesses that are starting to reopen in other states will remain closed in the county — and the state — for weeks, possibly months.

The new order extends most of the current shelter-at-home prohibitions until May 31. They were set to expire this Sunday.

In making her announcement, Cody highlighted the county's progress in managing the pandemic. The county, she said, now accounts for fewer than 5% of the cases in California and just a fraction of the nation's case total, which is now more than 1 million. As of Tuesday, the county had 2,122 confirmed cases and 106 deaths related to COVID-19.

Cody said the goal is to move from the types of "broad-based mitigations" that had been in place since March 17 to a "more focused approach" targeting vulnerable populations.

"What we are hoping is because we have been extraordinarily successful in our region in suppressing cases, flattening the curve and decreasing the number of new cases that we have every day, we are hoping to successfully transition to a point where we can be more focused," Cody said at a news conference at the County Government Center in San Jose.

The order also allows nurseries, landscapers, gardeners and other businesses that primarily provide outdoor services to reopen (which does not include dining establishments with outdoor seating).

The March prohibition on gardening has been particularly contentious, with many Palo Alto residents and some city leaders questioning the county's decision to ban an outdoor activity that typically includes very little social interaction.

Palo Alto City Manager Ed Shikada said last week that the city has received more calls about gardening than about any other topic, with some complaining about gardening at a neighboring property and others complaining about the ban. Councilman Greg Tanaka aligned himself with the latter at the April 20 council meeting, where he described the gardening ban as "truly bizarre."

Cody said the county is basing its modifications to the heath orders on five indicators: whether the number of total COVID-19 cases in the community is flattening or decreasing; whether the number of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 is flat or decreasing; whether there is an adequate supply of personal protective equipment to protect all health care workers; whether the county is meeting its need for testing residents who are in vulnerable populations or in high-risk settings or occupations; and whether the county has the capacity to investigate all cases and trace all their contacts, isolating those who are infected or exposed.

"We have already made significant progress on many of these indicators and we need to make sure we don't slip backwards," Cody said. "Our goal is to gingerly chart a course to be the most health-protective."

The announcement by Cody mirrors in some ways the strategy that Gov. Gavin Newsom announced on Tuesday for reopening business across the state. Newsom said he plans to transition "in weeks, not months" into a stage where some businesses can reopen.

Dr. Sonya Angell, the state's public health officer, said in a Tuesday presentation that this stage, known as Stage 2, will focus on "low-risk sectors" such as retailers that can provide curbside pickup, offices where telework is not possible and manufacturers that had not been deemed "essential" under the existing order.

Angell also said the second stage can include opening more parks and trails, many of which have been closed to the public over the past six weeks because of concern over physical distancing.

Newsom and Angell also indicated that it will be months before the state enters Stage 3 and businesses that require close proximity between staff and customers can reopen.

"Those are things like getting your haircut, getting your nails done, doing anything that has (a) very close, inherent relationship with other people, where proximity is very close. We need a thoughtful process to ensure that people don't put themselves at great risk in doing those activities," Angell said.

What's allowed — and what's not

A modified shelter-at-home order kicks in on May 4 in six Bay Area counties including Santa Clara and San Mateo. It eases restrictions on outdoor businesses, outdoor activities, construction and real estate transactions. Here's a quick summary of what is and is not allowed.

Gardeners and landscapers: Under the March 16 stay-at-home order, gardeners and landscapers were allowed to perform only essential work needed to maintain the safety of a property. Now, they are permitted to resume all work.

Construction: Before, only construction of public infrastructure and of residential developments that included affordable housing was permitted. Now, all construction has been added to the list of "essential business" and thus is permitted.

Real estate: Under the March 16 order, real estate business was not allowed, although the rule that was eased under the county's March 31 updated order, which allowed virtual tours of properties. Now, real estate has been added to the county's list of "essential business." Agents can show a property in person, with proper social distancing and a limit of two clients at a time, even if people still reside in the home.

Outdoor spaces: Golf courses are allowed under the new county order to reopen. On April 30, the state updated its shelter order to state that individual golfers can play so long as they walk the course and do not use a cart. Dog parks remain closed under both state and county orders because they "encourage gathering." Tennis courts are not explicitly mentioned in the county order, but sports in which equipment is shared are prohibited, except when played by members of the same household.

Find comprehensive coverage on the Midpeninsula's response to the new coronavirus by Palo Alto Online, the Mountain View Voice and the Almanac here.

Comments

Lily
another community
on Apr 29, 2020 at 1:20 pm
Lily, another community
on Apr 29, 2020 at 1:20 pm
29 people like this

Must read --this statement from the San Mateo County order:

"An Order based on a framework of essential and non-essential business categories was absolutely necessary and appropriate in the earliest stages of this crisis. I am grateful that the State issued an Order based on this framework several days after we did. If we continue to have the public’s cooperation, I have great hope that the COVID-19 Indicators will continue to improve and this Order can be revised before May 31, 2020 in a manner that focuses more on behavior (social distancing, face masks, etc.) and risk of disease transmission in contrast to categories of businesses (essential vs. non-essential). However, for me to issue such an Order, the State first needs to revise its Order to allow it. While, the Governor has indicated that the State will do so in weeks, not months, the actual date is uncertain."

I really dislike the idea of the Governor choosing which businesses are allowed to open and which ones are not. It's ripe for corruption and buy-offs. Where's the science in that?




nat
Midtown
on Apr 29, 2020 at 1:22 pm
nat, Midtown
on Apr 29, 2020 at 1:22 pm
36 people like this

What about dental offices?! These are essential, yet they are closed!


Open the tennis courts!
Fairmeadow School
on Apr 29, 2020 at 1:30 pm
Open the tennis courts!, Fairmeadow School
on Apr 29, 2020 at 1:30 pm
30 people like this

Just singles allowed, no doubles.


member
Fairmeadow
on Apr 29, 2020 at 1:33 pm
member, Fairmeadow
on Apr 29, 2020 at 1:33 pm
6 people like this

From my understanding, golfing is not prohibited by the state. The new order also allows golf courses to reopen, however, golfing remains prohibited by the statewide order, which supersedes the local ordinance."


Gennady Sheyner
Palo Alto Weekly staff writer
on Apr 29, 2020 at 1:59 pm
Gennady Sheyner, Palo Alto Weekly staff writer
on Apr 29, 2020 at 1:59 pm
Like this comment

Thanks, @member. You are correct in that the order pertains to golf courses, not the activity of golfing. I made the wording more precise.


YP
Crescent Park
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:11 pm
YP, Crescent Park
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:11 pm
3 people like this

sorry I don't get the distinction about golfing, so can we go golf or not?


Donald
South of Midtown
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:20 pm
Donald, South of Midtown
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:20 pm
13 people like this

YP, you are allowed to golf but not at a golf course.


YP
Crescent Park
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:25 pm
YP, Crescent Park
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:25 pm
19 people like this

Donald, thanks.

I realize there are more important things going on in the world, but what possible rationale is being used to keep them closed? Talk about a sport that is relatively easy to keep people spaced out. You walk it or get your own cart, stay apart as you play. What could be simpler.

Glad to see gardeners go back to work and construction and parks re-opening, I never thought they should have been stopped in the first place.


S_mom
Community Center
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:33 pm
S_mom, Community Center
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:33 pm
8 people like this

A reasonable loosening, and sounds like more may be coming at the end of the month assuming we continue on a good trajectory. I'm happy with these new orders.


casey
Midtown
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:34 pm
casey, Midtown
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:34 pm
Like this comment

@nat. While dentists are "Essential Businesses," the California Department of Public Health and the CDC has recommended that dentists postpone routine procedures.


S_mom
Community Center
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:39 pm
S_mom, Community Center
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:39 pm
13 people like this

@nat

Dental offices are a tough call. Because yes, they are pretty close to essential (or will become so once we have prolonged lack of access to dental cleanings), but they have to be one of the most high risk activities. A dentist can wear a mask but the patient can't and the dentist has to be right up in your face to do the work. They are still open for emergency work.

I think it has still been a short enough period that no one has lost too much by postponing routine dental work. When they get to 6 months of no dental cleanings, then they'll have to weigh the relative risks. Especially if they want to limit the number of cleanings that can be done, there will be significant backlog by then and working through it at a slower pace could take a while.


Online Name
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:42 pm
Online Name, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Apr 29, 2020 at 2:42 pm
13 people like this

How about opening the dog parks??


Nancy
Stanford
on Apr 29, 2020 at 3:13 pm
Nancy, Stanford
on Apr 29, 2020 at 3:13 pm
23 people like this

I hope that tennis courts reopen asap. There is a great set of rules on how to play tennis safely, no need to touch the same balls:
Web Link


YP
Crescent Park
on Apr 29, 2020 at 3:44 pm
YP, Crescent Park
on Apr 29, 2020 at 3:44 pm
37 people like this

I'm disappointed that those restaurants with outdoor areas or patios can't take advantage of them with reduced restrictions. We have such great weather in the bay area why can't people enjoy a meal outside properly spaced.

We could close University Av to traffic , let pedestrians walk in the street. restaurants put tables on the sidewalk.
Need to be creative otherwise I fear many many restaurants are going to throw in the towel waiting for much longer. We will be left with PFChangs, In-N-Out and Chipolte for our dining experiences


Messifan
Ventura
on Apr 29, 2020 at 4:40 pm
Messifan, Ventura
on Apr 29, 2020 at 4:40 pm
16 people like this

If we don't have enough testing, why is that the case, who is fixing it, and how? How is the contact tracing program going? How many are being traced now? What are the hurdles to tracing everyone? I think people have the right to know. Maybe this information is out there and I have missed it, but I don't think so.


DJT45 - 3/6/20: “Anybody that needs a test, gets a test. They’re there & the tests are beautiful”
Evergreen Park

on Apr 29, 2020 at 5:02 pm
Name hidden, Evergreen Park

on Apr 29, 2020 at 5:02 pm

Due to violations of our Terms of Use, comments from this poster are only visible to registered users who are logged in. Use the links at the top of the page to Register or Login.


madeline
Menlo Park
on Apr 29, 2020 at 5:21 pm
madeline, Menlo Park
on Apr 29, 2020 at 5:21 pm
19 people like this

in Switzerland, they have started to reopen and one of the first businesses that are allowed to reopen are hairdressers. The rationale is that people need to make appointments to go to hairdressers, so if someone gets sick, it will be easy to contact that person and ask who else they have come in contact with. Of course, customers will be 6 ft apart, and the hairdressers will wear masks etc. Seems logical.


parent
Downtown North
on Apr 29, 2020 at 5:32 pm
parent, Downtown North
on Apr 29, 2020 at 5:32 pm
25 people like this

We think the governor and the county health officers are doing a wonderful job. Yes, there have been many deaths in California, but by starting our shutdown earlier than the rest of the USA, our fatality rate is much lower than what I'm reading about other US states like Washington state or New York. With so many lives at stake, being cautious is surely the right call. I cannot believe what I'm hearing is going on in Georgia and especially Nevada.


Resident
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 29, 2020 at 6:50 pm
Resident, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 29, 2020 at 6:50 pm
28 people like this

Sensible precautions can now be made to open Foothills Park. Alternate parking spots, one way trails, no group activities, but open the Park.


YP
Crescent Park
on Apr 29, 2020 at 7:35 pm
YP, Crescent Park
on Apr 29, 2020 at 7:35 pm
16 people like this

@ parent

what exactly "can't you believe is going on in georgia and nevada"?

I find this link very informative and data driven

Web Link

Death per millions in Georgia 107, death per millions in Nevada 81, deaths per million in New York 1,197. I cant believe what's "going on" in NY . Let's stick to facts thank you



The catch
Duveneck/St. Francis
on Apr 29, 2020 at 7:52 pm
The catch, Duveneck/St. Francis
on Apr 29, 2020 at 7:52 pm
25 people like this

The catch is deaths (much less those carrying Covid 19) likely aren’t accurately counted. They’re under-counted. I heard the policy varies on this. What you can’t see can kill you - or make you ill or be a carrier - no matter which state.
It’s tricky to play a game of state vs. state.
Let’s hope everyone is honest and accurate.
Birx said social distancing would be with us through the Summer
Sounds like a lot of that is going away in a hurry, if even in stages
Don’t forget travel!


Dan
Professorville
on Apr 29, 2020 at 9:57 pm
Dan, Professorville
on Apr 29, 2020 at 9:57 pm
42 people like this

Recall at the beginning of all if this mess, the stated goal was to shut down the economy and stay at home to bend the curve and not overwhelm our hospitals.

Now the goalposts appear to have moved. It's no longer at all clear what the goals for reopening really are. Just an ill defined framework for reopening with no specifics and no timeframe.

Meanwhile the governor has appointed Tom Steyer to lead an 80 person California economy task force with a stated goal of transforming our society to be more green and more equitable.

Oh and despite the headline of this story, the governor will announce tomorrow that all beaches and state parks across the state will close and will remain closed indefinitely.

Seems to me we did an amazing job bending the curve and our reward is the tightest lockdown in the country with no end in site.


Paly Grad
Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Apr 29, 2020 at 10:07 pm
Paly Grad, Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Apr 29, 2020 at 10:07 pm
4 people like this

Can I take my dog to the dog park?
No. Dog parks are areas that encourage people to gather together, and are required to close.

Web Link

See page 4 on the link above


Wake up
Mountain View
on Apr 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm
Wake up, Mountain View
on Apr 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm
30 people like this

I honestly want to know since when did we become a people of fear, apprehension, and subservience?

The statistics do not justify this level of apprehension and worry. [Portion removed.]


TimR
Downtown North
on Apr 29, 2020 at 10:40 pm
TimR, Downtown North
on Apr 29, 2020 at 10:40 pm
Like this comment

@Resident, Foothills park is open now, and has always been during the shelter in place. You just can't drive and park there. You can ride your bike up, or hike down from Los Trancos (where you ARE allowed to park during the week).


News flash
Palo Alto High School
on Apr 29, 2020 at 11:14 pm
News flash, Palo Alto High School
on Apr 29, 2020 at 11:14 pm
2 people like this

Governor Newsom closing CA beaches.


Jetman
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 29, 2020 at 11:24 pm
Jetman, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 29, 2020 at 11:24 pm
22 people like this

It is hard to understand why places where social distancing is easy like parks and beaches are closed when places where the appropriate amount of social distancing is impossible like airports/airlines are still open.

From a recent WBTV report: "“I just started to panic... I had people on both sides of me,” Strine said. “Every row around me, next to me, behind me, were completely full.” WBTV reached out to American Airlines asking how they are keeping passengers safe if social distancing is not always an option and masks are not required?"


"Passenger says social distancing impossible on full flight from New York to Charlotte"
WBTV ~ April 26 2020 Web Link


Oh nos! =(
Duveneck/St. Francis
on Apr 30, 2020 at 8:51 am
Oh nos! =(, Duveneck/St. Francis
on Apr 30, 2020 at 8:51 am
8 people like this

Working from home + gardening and construction noise = how are we supposed to focus on our work? The only good thing about this lockdown has been the temporary pause on the constant auditory assault that daytime in PA has become. Back to "normal" Monday now...great.


Wake up
Mountain View
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:02 am
Wake up, Mountain View
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:02 am
13 people like this

@Jet,an, it is 100% NOT hard to understand. And I don’t mean to be caustic here but there’s really no other way to say this.....it is only hard for all of you who continue to be blinded and not wake up.

Closing the beaches....it is all about control and causing more fear. Because to your point “social distancing is easy at parks and beaches”.

Control and instilling fear. Otherwise people would start questioning the numbers, questioning everything and wondering why their government (who, btw, are all working and getting full pay,,l,think about that...working and getting full pay) is able to take such control.

Wake up. Or even better, maybe try watching one of those news channels that you hate so much, many who are finding positive things to report on instead of the MSM you keep thinking are the “right” ones....just try it listen to the others that give hope and optimism. Instead of the MSM that offers up constant drama, fear and “everyone’s gonna die”.

[Portion removed.]


Learning To Adjust
Crescent Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:04 am
Learning To Adjust, Crescent Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:04 am
Like this comment

> " While dentists are "Essential Businesses," the California Department of Public Health and the CDC has recommended that dentists postpone routine procedures."

^^^Too much potential risk at this time.

With so many people hoarding toilet paper these days, plumbers & Roto-Rooter type businesses should also be allowed to operate as a backflow of sewage due to using too much toilet paper per flush poses a public health hazard.

The closure of high-end hair salons is also posing a major problem as countless women are now being forced to forego their periodic 'coloration' appointments and regular stylings/cuts.

Bad hair (mercy!) & deteriorating teeth are byproducts of the COVID-19 virus & the imposed mandates.


Resident
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:08 am
Resident, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:08 am
11 people like this

TimR It is closed to cars. Not everyone is able to cycle up to it and not all of us are fortunate enough to live close by. Of course you are technically correct, but for the majority of Palo Alto residents, it might as well be closed. A gentle stroll around the lake and the meadow is very different from mountain hiking for many of us.


Resident
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:18 am
Resident, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:18 am
20 people like this

There is a woke attitude that is very worrying. The attitude that whatever the government or authorities tell us to do is the right one. Of course we are allowed to question authority and to question the rules. That is what free speech is all about.

Why were masks not recommended and now are recommended? Why was gardeners and nurseries not essential and are now being allowed to open? Why is one county allowing us to travel without putting a distance while another county won't let us travel more than 5 miles? Why are people protesting following all the social distancing rules and the only people the media show are those who are flouting the rules? Why can't people protest these Orwellian ideals following all the protocols without being ridiculed?

These are all very valid questions. We are being treated like naughty children, not responsible, intelligent people.

I follow the rules, but I do have the right to question them. I still have a brain to use and an intelligence to weigh the wisdom of some of the things the media are throwing at us.

I do blame the media for a great deal of this. The media do sound bites of satire and take them as fact. The media make mountains out of molehills when it comes to something they think they can make a bigger issue. We do not have a responsible media in this.

[Portion removed.]


Wake up
Mountain View
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:40 am
Wake up, Mountain View
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:40 am
13 people like this

Yes! Agree to everything you say! And lest people assume I’m anti-SIP I am not and have not been. My family has not left the house since 3/17 except for me and my weekly trips to grocery. I wear a mask and support the efforts to keep everyone safe.

[Portion removed.]


Been awake
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:57 am
Been awake, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:57 am
23 people like this

@wake up - totally agree with you.

Makes no sense closing the beaches. According to a life guard at one of the open beaches last weekend, most people were socially distancing, but the media circulated the one photo were they were not, and Newsom bases his decision on that? And with all beaches open socially distancing shouldn't be a problem.

According to three studies from China, the outdoor transmission of the virus might be very rare, see link below. What's the chance catching it on the beach?
Also, being out in the sun boosts vitamin D levels, exercise improves our immune system.

Web Link


Make jetmans day
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 10:29 am
Make jetmans day , Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 10:29 am
5 people like this

Jetman- you have been singing the same tune for weeks. People understand why airports are still open. You must be thrilled with the current situation, as you have wanted sfo and sjc to be shut down for years


Anon
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 11:13 am
Anon, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 11:13 am
10 people like this

Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood

>> There is a woke attitude that is very worrying. The attitude that whatever the government or authorities tell us to do is the right one. Of course we are allowed to question authority and to question the rules. That is what free speech is all about.

Feel free to question authority. That includes questioning what you hear on Fox News, which is the mouthpiece of certain "authorities" as well. Feel free to exercise your free speech, but, people who disagree with you also have their free speech as well.

With regard to "re-opening", please read this op-ed from Georgia:

"Somehow, we’ve reached the point where caring about public health has become a progressive issue, while the nation’s economy has become a conservative one. This division is false; no one should have to choose between financial annihilation and helping to spread a deadly disease."

Web Link


Don
Evergreen Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 11:26 am
Don, Evergreen Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 11:26 am
3 people like this

"A gentle stroll around the lake and the meadow is very different from mountain hiking for many of us."

The Bayland trails are open (just no parking in the lots). There's plenty of street parking for access.


S_mom
Community Center
on Apr 30, 2020 at 11:30 am
S_mom, Community Center
on Apr 30, 2020 at 11:30 am
17 people like this

I agree with the "woke" attitude problem with respect to this pandemic. I am very very liberal, and I don't like feeling like people will think I'm Republican if I think we should loosen up some of the shelter in place restrictions (actually I've only been advocating for pretty much exactly what the newest shelter in place order has done, but in doing so have been made to feel like I'm a redneck protester without a mask even though my reasoning has to do with the terrible effect this is having on low income populations, usually a Democratic concern). This should not be a Democrat/Republic issue, but an question of science and public health, but somehow it's been turned into a political issue where Democrat = we all stay home until there's a vaccine, and Republican = fully restart the economy.


News flash
Palo Alto High School
on Apr 30, 2020 at 11:55 am
News flash, Palo Alto High School
on Apr 30, 2020 at 11:55 am
1 person likes this

@ Jetman
I was on a 77 recently and the mood was subdued. A few men coughed without masks, that sucked. Vast majority Of people respectful of themselves and others. No crazy filming put up on the net, Sorry, maybe I could have concocted one....I know a lot of people love sensation and pretend sensation.
While I urge caution, there are times even now when flying is necessary, and I suggest wearing a mask. It was ok. Airports themselves allow for plenty of social distancing and were clean with janitors polishing everything in sight.


TimR
Downtown North
on Apr 30, 2020 at 1:26 pm
TimR, Downtown North
on Apr 30, 2020 at 1:26 pm
1 person likes this

@Resident, for an easy walk, the Byrne Preserve is open, and has parking. There's no lake, and it is small, but there are horses grazing about.


Jetman
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 1:46 pm
Jetman, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 1:46 pm
13 people like this

@News Flash,

Count yourself lucky. The only reason you were able to social-distance on the on your flight is because the public understands the risk better than airport/airline management and they are avoiding air-travel like the plague.

The WBTV example shows that months into this pandemic airport/airline management still do not have adequate plans in place to protect passengers and crew from COVID transmission in the close and poorly ventilated confines of an aircraft cabin.

"Passenger says social distancing impossible on full flight from New York to Charlotte"
WBTV ~ April 26 2020 Web Link


STAY AT HOME
Menlo Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 2:21 pm
STAY AT HOME, Menlo Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 2:21 pm
2 people like this

[Post removed.]


Robyn
another community
on Apr 30, 2020 at 2:37 pm
Robyn, another community
on Apr 30, 2020 at 2:37 pm
Like this comment

parent, what are you hearing about Nevada?
The Strip is closed. Golf courses are closed.
There is a ton of open space to social distance,


SJ
another community
on Apr 30, 2020 at 2:43 pm
SJ, another community
on Apr 30, 2020 at 2:43 pm
5 people like this

For those who commented above and tried to incorporate the word "woke"- I do not think it means what you think it means. Just FYI.


Anon
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 3:23 pm
Anon, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 3:23 pm
7 people like this

Posted by S_mom, a resident of Community Center

>> I agree with the "woke" attitude problem with respect to this pandemic.

It is an odd thing, though-- everybody that I personally talk to about it is quite rational. I think TV news is always looking for a story with "2 sides". The middle - most of us - don't get the airtime that the 2 sides get. Nobody I know is approaching this as a true believer -- people want everyone to do the pragmatic thing.

>> I am very very liberal,

I'm considered very very liberal by Right-Wing-Authoritarians (RWAs) I know, and, moderate by all of my friends. ;-). That is, liberal as in "freedom". The few left-wing-authoritarians (Communists; Socialist Workers Party, etc.) I've known over the years didn't agree with me any more than the RWAs do.

>> I don't like feeling like people will think I'm Republican

No rational person will be confused.

>> if I think we should loosen up some of the shelter in place restrictions (actually I've only been advocating for pretty much exactly what the newest shelter in place order has done,

I know what you mean, but, my witnessing a few "overcrowding" incidents made me favor the sit-tight-for-a-few-weeks approach, because there were just too many people who don't understand safe-social-intercourse. Viruses are tough for people who don't have any microbiology knowledge -- and that is most people.

>> but in doing so have been made to feel like I'm a redneck protester without a mask

I'm not sure who has made you feel that way but it could be that they were trying, badly, to get a different message across.

>> even though my reasoning has to do with the terrible effect this is having on low income populations,

I know exactly what you are saying -- better than I can discuss here -- but, we can't let that drive us towards policies which won't interrupt virus transmission. We can't put policies in place that will increase COVID19 deaths just because "welfare", in this case paying people not to work (at restaurants and cosmetic studios), is politically distasteful. We have to have policies that work. We don't have vaccines; all we can do right now is socially distance.

>> This should not be a Democrat/Republic issue, but an question of science and public health, but somehow it's been turned into a political issue where Democrat = we all stay home until there's a vaccine, and Republican = fully restart the economy.

Exactly what the link (posted above) is about: Web Link


I am with S_mom
Green Acres
on Apr 30, 2020 at 4:14 pm
I am with S_mom, Green Acres
on Apr 30, 2020 at 4:14 pm
6 people like this

I agree with S_mom -people are too dogmatic about this issue. "We can't put policies in place that will increase COVID19 deaths". Sure we can -and we do. There is a spectrum of policies all with their own tradeoffs. Plenty are valid. The policies we have today already "increase COVID deaths" over some policies. And decrease them over others. I am even more "redneck" than S_mom in that I support the line that Sweden has taken. If the goal of flattening the curve is to stay within hospital capacity, then they have done that. If the goal of flattening the curve is to wait for a vaccine then they haven't done that. They will be done much earlier while we are waiting inside.


Anon
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 4:25 pm
Anon, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 4:25 pm
7 people like this

Posted by I am with S_mom, a resident of Green Acres

>>"We can't put policies in place that will increase COVID19 deaths". Sure we can -and we do.

Agreed. We can and we did and we are. I should have said more precisely that -I- am opposed to policies that increase COVID19 deaths.

>> I am even more "redneck" than S_mom in that I support the line that Sweden has taken.

Well, that is pretty clear, then, because Sweden is in the "top 10" in per-capita death rate. Not where I want to be. I would rather -gamble- that a lower death rate is a better strategy. If you favor the Sweden approach because you think it would be better for the economy-- well, that is a -gamble- too, because, such evidence as we have now, e.g. 1918-1919, indicates otherwise.

"Time will tell."


Peter
Professorville
on Apr 30, 2020 at 4:40 pm
Peter, Professorville
on Apr 30, 2020 at 4:40 pm
1 person likes this

@Anon:
"If you favor the Sweden approach because you think it would be better for the economy-- well, that is a -gamble- too, because, such evidence as we have now, e.g. 1918-1919, indicates otherwise."

Can you please cite "such evidence" that you are referring to?




YP
Crescent Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 4:59 pm
YP, Crescent Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 4:59 pm
2 people like this

[Post removed.]


Anon
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 5:24 pm
Anon, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 5:24 pm
7 people like this

Posted by Peter, a resident of Professorville

>> Can you please cite "such evidence" that you are referring to?

Sure.

Overview: Web Link

Detail: Web Link

And here: Web Link


Resident
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 5:28 pm
Resident, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 30, 2020 at 5:28 pm
6 people like this

I definitely think we do need to discuss this issue intelligently, without name calling, without bringing politics in and no insults or offense.

Thanks to all who are commenting on both sides rationally.


S_mom
Community Center
on Apr 30, 2020 at 6:23 pm
S_mom, Community Center
on Apr 30, 2020 at 6:23 pm
6 people like this

@ SJ, yes, "woke" is not the right word, which is why I had it in quotes (I was referencing Resident's comment). But I understand the sentiment behind Resident's comment -- the feeling sometimes in Silicon Valley that you have to prove you're liberal enough and worry you'll be vilified for questioning certain dogma. And I am very liberal, it's just that I'm also capable of critical thinking -- the two are usually quite well-aligned except occasionally you feel like you have to whisper that maybe it doesn't make sense to put construction workers and gardeners out of work when our numbers are so low.


Peter
Professorville
on Apr 30, 2020 at 6:55 pm
Peter, Professorville
on Apr 30, 2020 at 6:55 pm
1 person likes this

@Anon:
Thanks for the links to the articles about the 1918 flu. They contain a lot of interesting information; however, I don't think any of the cases they compare are equivalent to the strategy that Sweden has used. But still they are very useful to consider.


Jennifer
another community
on Apr 30, 2020 at 7:05 pm
Jennifer, another community
on Apr 30, 2020 at 7:05 pm
4 people like this

I hope the golf courses re-open. My husband is a scratch golfer and he tells me "golf can wait" but I don't think he means it. Tell the truth...


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Adobe-Meadow
on Apr 30, 2020 at 7:25 pm
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
on Apr 30, 2020 at 7:25 pm
13 people like this

I don't know about you - but I have done what is requested - checked all of the boxes. That worked well when it was overcast and cold outside. But now it is Spring/Summer. And I am reading all types of conflagrations concerning the food supply. They don't make sense.

This needs to stop. And do not approve of our state governor making financial decision with no regard of approval of the state legislature.

If we have foregone the required legislative approval of financial matters then we are in big trouble.


YP
Crescent Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 7:37 pm
YP, Crescent Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 7:37 pm
10 people like this

[Post removed.]


YP
Crescent Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 7:43 pm
YP, Crescent Park
on Apr 30, 2020 at 7:43 pm
I am with S_mom
Green Acres
on Apr 30, 2020 at 7:59 pm
I am with S_mom, Green Acres
on Apr 30, 2020 at 7:59 pm
7 people like this

Anon, over half of Sweden's deaths are in care homes for seniors. That is a real problem but they don't think it is related to the lack of lockdown. Their younger kids are still in school, people are at work, everyone has health care, the economy is okay though they are worried about imports from other countries. Web Link and also Web Link if you have a subscription. Other links too. Read the balanced comments from the Swedes and compare with the knee-jerk comments from people here. I worry that people/politicians can be inclined to do things that sound right even if they are not right maybe because they are too hard to explain.


TimR
Downtown North
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:54 pm
TimR, Downtown North
on Apr 30, 2020 at 9:54 pm
7 people like this

@Anon, well France had a very strict lockdown, and to show for it, they have 36 deaths per 100K versus Sweden's 24 (according to Johns Hopkins). And there are other European examples of having a lockdown but higher death rates than Sweden. So you can't just say Sweden's approach leads to more deaths. You could just as ealisy say, looking at the stats, that lockdowns lead to more than than Sweden's approach.


Barron Park dad
Barron Park
on May 1, 2020 at 1:09 am
Barron Park dad, Barron Park
on May 1, 2020 at 1:09 am
7 people like this

What is the City of Palo Alto's stance on re-opening our tennis courts? When?


10s
Gunn High School
on May 1, 2020 at 6:45 am
10s, Gunn High School
on May 1, 2020 at 6:45 am
5 people like this

Marin, Alameda, Contra Costa, Napa, and other counties are opening the tennis courts, probably because having two or even four people on such a big court is much safer than many other activities. Just have to make sure they don’t bring other people or pets on the courts so social distance can be maximized. Hopefully these other counties can wake up Santa Clara County and the City of Palo Alto.


PhotoOp
Palo Verde
on May 1, 2020 at 2:02 pm
PhotoOp, Palo Verde
on May 1, 2020 at 2:02 pm
Like this comment

has anyone heard a peep out of Baylands plans to open? Other courses in the area have sent out notices of opening and are beginning to take reservations... strange that Baylands remains quiet....


Dog Owner
Barron Park
on May 1, 2020 at 2:24 pm
Dog Owner, Barron Park
on May 1, 2020 at 2:24 pm
1 person likes this

I am confused - it is just dogs that are allowed to play golf in the park, or golfers that are allowed in the dog park?


Mark Weiss
Downtown North
on May 1, 2020 at 7:21 pm
Mark Weiss, Downtown North
on May 1, 2020 at 7:21 pm
Like this comment

You know it’s a slow news cycle when a guy walking his dog, with his wife, makes the cover of PAW. He’ll wear the hoodie, but not the mask. He sometimes carries a small tennis ball, more to mitigate barking than germs, but it’s completely voluntary.


Mark Weiss
Downtown North
on May 1, 2020 at 7:26 pm
Mark Weiss, Downtown North
on May 1, 2020 at 7:26 pm
Bill Frankeberger
another community
on May 2, 2020 at 7:52 am
Bill Frankeberger, another community
on May 2, 2020 at 7:52 am
5 people like this

Dental offices NEED TO RE-OPEN. Not all dental visits are elective! I myself have a raw "post"... a tooth that was filed down and awaiting a crown. The temp crown is long gone. After 7 weeks my gums are rising around the raw tooth. But I can't get the crown put on!


Resident
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on May 2, 2020 at 3:33 pm
Resident, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on May 2, 2020 at 3:33 pm
4 people like this

I heard it put very well by one small business owner.

"We are not all in the same boat but we are all in the same storm. The storm may be the same for everyone, but it is the type of boat we are in that will make the difference of how we will ride the storm. For some the boat has a large engine, is strong and ocean worthy. For others, the boat has no engine and depends on being rowed since it is small and already leaking."


Lee Thé
Greenmeadow
on May 3, 2020 at 1:02 am
Lee Thé, Greenmeadow
on May 3, 2020 at 1:02 am
3 people like this

San Mateo County has a five mile travel limit from your residence for recreation as I understand it. Does anyone know if Santa Clara country has a distance limit within the county? I can't find one.


dental?
College Terrace
on May 3, 2020 at 1:28 am
dental?, College Terrace
on May 3, 2020 at 1:28 am
1 person likes this

Is emergency dental work (i.e. performed by endodontists or oral surgeons) still permitted? I've had pain in a tooth that underwent a root canal in February and am anxiously awaiting the lifting of SIP so I can have someone take a look at it.


Anon
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on May 3, 2020 at 9:28 am
Anon, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on May 3, 2020 at 9:28 am
3 people like this

@Peter, @I am with S_mom, @TimR, and others who have suggested or assumed that Covid-19 is like a particularly bad seasonal flu: Please read this article.

The original source seems to be the WSJ, behind a paywall: Web Link

However, the article has been more widely referenced, and, some of the indirect links will allow it to be read. The bottom line is that, no, it isn't like a seasonal flu that often kills people who were, statistically, in their last year of life anyway. (Many people on this and other threads seem to assume that.) The WSJ article summarizes reports that clearly refute that. People who have died from coronavirus, statistically would have been expected to live 11, 12, even 14 years longer.

==

"People dying of Covid-19 could have expected to live on average for at least another decade, according to two studies that help fill in the developing picture of the human cost of the coronavirus pandemic.

The findings show the virus isn’t just carrying off the elderly or infirm a few months before their time.

“Some people think that these people dying would have died this year anyway,” said Andrew Briggs, a professor of health economics at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine who led one of the studies. “That’s simply not the case.”

==

"The findings of both studies challenge a perception that Covid-19 primarily kills elderly people who would have likely died soon anyway, or that its societal cost is similar to that of seasonal influenza, researchers said.

"Using estimates of life-years lost and standard values placed on one year of life in different countries, analysts can begin to put an economic value on the benefits of the extreme steps now being taken to fight the new coronavirus. These can be compared against the cost of shutdowns, in direct financial terms and secondary consequences "


I am with S_mom
Green Acres
on May 3, 2020 at 12:54 pm
I am with S_mom, Green Acres
on May 3, 2020 at 12:54 pm
7 people like this

I don't recall equating covid-19 mortality and flu mortality or suggesting that the elderly (or immunocompromised or other vulnerable segments) are dispensable.


Anon
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on May 3, 2020 at 1:47 pm
Anon, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on May 3, 2020 at 1:47 pm
5 people like this

Posted by I am with S_mom, a resident of Green Acres

>> I don't recall equating

I hasten to apologize. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I posted the reference because it is new information regarding the real impact of COVID-19 that I thought would be of particular interest to folks asking certain questions.


Numbers count
Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 3:34 pm
Numbers count, Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 3:34 pm
7 people like this

[Post removed due to inaccurate ctation of CDC statistics.]

We need to open up and let people go back to their jobs, their businesses. If you are not comfortable with this then by all means, stay home and protect yourself. But those who can, should get back out. This is insane. The numbers do NOT add up. Again, if you are concerned and don’t feel safe going out....don’t. That is absolutely your prerogative. But there are many who can and should. Immediately.


Your Numbers Don't Count
Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 3:54 pm
Your Numbers Don't Count, Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 3:54 pm
Like this comment

Your basing your viewpoint in not because of what the CDC puts out?

Given their performance during this pandemic, the CDC has no credibility left. None. Zero. Nada.

And stop putting out -45 propaganda...this administration has shown nothing but incompetence throughout this pandemic.


Anon
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on May 3, 2020 at 4:33 pm
Anon, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on May 3, 2020 at 4:33 pm
5 people like this

Posted by Numbers count, a resident of Mountain View

>> CDC has reduced the number of deaths attributed to COVID from 67k to 37k.

Web Link

The Financial Times has looked at official UK deaths vs hospital deaths to see how many deaths were being missed by only looking at official, diagnosed hospital deaths.

>> We need to open up and let people go back to their jobs, their businesses.

That depends on the job, the business. If the business is one that has a high probability of of SARS-CoV-2 transmission risk, then, NO. IOW, restaurants, bars, theaters, clubs, and, businesses where employees are crowded and share each others air, touch common surfaces, etc. For example, I didn't necessarily realized how crowded in employees are at meat packing houses until a couple of them had massive infection rates sweep through them. Likewise, call centers are infamous. Different types of businesses have different risks.

>> If you are not comfortable with this then by all means, stay home and protect yourself.

Once again, this is why I had to respond. This is NOT like fighting oil rig fires. Red Adair could take risks and it didn't affect my risk. But, if you are spreading Covid-19, then, you are affecting my risk (and everyone's). I understand that you are not comfortable with this. SARS-CoV-2 is a virus. It doesn't care about your individualism. We are in it together. You don't like it, but, it is reality today. And, I hope, will change if/when we get a vaccine.

>> But those who can, should get back out. This is insane.

What would be insane would be to ignore the medical facts that we have, to ignore what has happened. You don't think NYC experience applies to you? How about rural Georgia? Web Link These folks weren't rubbing shoulders in elevators and subways. They just went to a couple of memorial services...


Numbers count
Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 5:48 pm
Numbers count, Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 5:48 pm
11 people like this

Sorry @Anon. Again, if you are concerned then you can stay home. You are correct, I don’t like some people who are safely ensconced in their homes with income, plenty of food, etc feel they can dictate to others who have lost their jobs, lost their income.

You do NOT have that right. If you are concerned, STAY HOME. Let those who are able get back out and keep our society going. For the love of god, stop the fear and wake up. The numbers Do NOT ADD UP. Hospitals are EMPTY.


Numbers count
Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 5:51 pm
Numbers count, Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 5:51 pm
8 people like this

[Post removed.]


Your Numbers Don't Count
Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 7:09 pm
Your Numbers Don't Count, Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 7:09 pm
3 people like this

Nice try, sport -- but -45 made it a political issue. And the fact that you're parroting his points only shows that you not only drank the Kool-Aid -- you went for seconds and thirds.

If Gavin Newsom were so stupid to follow your advice, the hospital in this area would be filled to overflowing. Fortunately, Newsom listens to experts [portion removed.]


Anon
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on May 3, 2020 at 7:10 pm
Anon, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on May 3, 2020 at 7:10 pm
5 people like this


Sorry @Numbers count. Again, you do NOT have the right to endanger other people just because your personal business happens to be high-risk but you need the income. Public policy requires balancing everyone's rights.


Numbers count
Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 8:23 pm
Numbers count, Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 8:23 pm
4 people like this

[Post removed.]


Your Numbers Don't Count
Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 8:33 pm
Your Numbers Don't Count, Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 8:33 pm
Like this comment

[Post removed.]


Numbers count
Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 9:25 pm
Numbers count, Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 9:25 pm
2 people like this

[Post removed.]


Your Numbers Don't Count
Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 9:36 pm
Your Numbers Don't Count, Mountain View
on May 3, 2020 at 9:36 pm
Like this comment

[Post removed.]


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