News

Stanford renames buildings after two alumnae: first woman in space, renowned psychologist

University joins schools across the country who have renamed facilities

Two Stanford University buildings that have for years carried the name of Father Junipero Serra will be renamed to honor two alumnae: Sally Ride, a physicist and the first American woman in space, and Carolyn Lewis Attneave, a psychologist credited with creating the field of Native American mental health.

Stanford announced the new names on Wednesday, joining school districts and universities across the country who have decided to rename buildings who honored men with controversial legacies. Serra, the 18th-century founder of the California mission system, played a critical role in the development of modern California but his name is also associated with violence against Native Americans, including forced labor, forced living arrangements and corporal punishment.

The university board of trustees voted in September to rename the street that carries the university's official address and these two buildings, but to retain Serra Street. The university is preparing an application to Santa Clara County to rename Serra Mall as Jane Stanford Way in honor of Stanford's co-founder. (Junipero Serra Boulevard, a county road that runs along the southwest side of campus, is not under the university's purview so was not part of the renaming deliberations.)

Effective immediately, Serra House, which houses the Clayman Institute for Gender Research, is being renamed Carolyn Lewis Attneave House, and the Serra House in the Stern Hall undergraduate residence complex will become the Sally Ride House.

In an announcement, Stanford President Marc Tessier-Lavigne said the two women serve as "powerful examples" for the campus community.

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"With this step we recognize, in a lasting, visible fashion, two exceptional members of the Stanford family," Tessier-Lavigne said. "Carolyn Attneave and Sally Ride took their talents and commitments far beyond Stanford and, in Sally's case, literally around and beyond the globe, and explored new ways of learning about our society and making it better."

The names were recommended by two campus groups appointed by the vice provost for student affairs and the dean of humanities and sciences, the administrators responsible for the two buildings. The groups sought name recommendations and feedback from the broader campus community, Stanford said.

Ride, who died in 2012, was a physicist, athlete, writer and educator. In 1983, she became the first American woman in space, flying aboard the space shuttle Challenger. She also was a member of the committee that investigated the Challenger's explosion in 1986.

Tessier-Lavigne opened his first commencement address in 2017 with her story. Ride held two undergraduate degrees, in English and physics, and two graduate degrees in physics from Stanford.

After retiring from NASA in 1987, Ride was for two years a science fellow at Stanford's Center for International Security and Arms Control. She went on to teach physics at the University of California, San Diego, and wrote science books for young people with her life partner, Tam O'Shaughnessy, according to Stanford. With O'Shaughnessy and three friends, she founded Sally Ride Science, a UC San Diego nonprofit that aims to inspire young people, particularly girls and minorities, in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) and to promote STEM literacy.

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Ride was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2013.

Attneave was born in El Paso, Texas, to mixed Lenni-Lenape and Scandinavian heritage. When she started her psychology career in the 1950s, Native American mental health was "virtually nonexistent," wrote the committee that recommended her name. She provided mental health services to American Indian tribes as the coordinator of community guidance services for the Oklahoma State Department of Health and founded the organizations now known as the Society of Indian Psychologists and North American Indian Center of Boston.

She earned two Stanford education degrees, a master's in 1947 and doctorate in 1952. As a doctoral student, she studied the educational needs of Japanese-Americans interned during World War II and the counseling needs of African-American communities in Philadelphia, Stanford said in its announcement.

Attneave went on to teach at the Boston University School of Medicine and the University of Washington, worked with the Harvard School of Public Health and conducted research at Saint Vincent College in Latrobe, Pennsylvania. She died in 1992.

Matthew Tiews, associate vice president for campus engagement, said Stanford plans to create plaques and displays to further educate the campus about the two women's legacies. The displays will include not only information about their careers but also "the harmful impacts of the mission system on Native Americans that inspired the university's decision to rename the structures," the university's announcement states.

"Beyond that, we also want to use this as an opportunity to have ongoing conversations about the contributions that Native Americans have made to Stanford and to honor the history of Native Americans on Stanford lands, which are the homeland of the Muwekma Ohlone people," Tiews said.

Stanford also plans to "develop other materials to tell a fuller story of Stanford's history," including highlighting Jane Stanford's contributions to the university and "a discussion of Serra's multifaceted legacy as the founder of the California mission system."

Last year, the Palo Alto school board voted to rename two middle schools after Frank S. Greene, Jr., an African-American technologist, and Ellen Fletcher, a Holocaust survivor known for her decades of civic leadership in Palo Alto. The schools had previously honored David Starr Jordan and Lewis Terman, each with strong connections to Stanford, who were criticized for their advocacy of eugenics.

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Stanford renames buildings after two alumnae: first woman in space, renowned psychologist

University joins schools across the country who have renamed facilities

by / Palo Alto Weekly

Uploaded: Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 9:32 am

Two Stanford University buildings that have for years carried the name of Father Junipero Serra will be renamed to honor two alumnae: Sally Ride, a physicist and the first American woman in space, and Carolyn Lewis Attneave, a psychologist credited with creating the field of Native American mental health.

Stanford announced the new names on Wednesday, joining school districts and universities across the country who have decided to rename buildings who honored men with controversial legacies. Serra, the 18th-century founder of the California mission system, played a critical role in the development of modern California but his name is also associated with violence against Native Americans, including forced labor, forced living arrangements and corporal punishment.

The university board of trustees voted in September to rename the street that carries the university's official address and these two buildings, but to retain Serra Street. The university is preparing an application to Santa Clara County to rename Serra Mall as Jane Stanford Way in honor of Stanford's co-founder. (Junipero Serra Boulevard, a county road that runs along the southwest side of campus, is not under the university's purview so was not part of the renaming deliberations.)

Effective immediately, Serra House, which houses the Clayman Institute for Gender Research, is being renamed Carolyn Lewis Attneave House, and the Serra House in the Stern Hall undergraduate residence complex will become the Sally Ride House.

In an announcement, Stanford President Marc Tessier-Lavigne said the two women serve as "powerful examples" for the campus community.

"With this step we recognize, in a lasting, visible fashion, two exceptional members of the Stanford family," Tessier-Lavigne said. "Carolyn Attneave and Sally Ride took their talents and commitments far beyond Stanford and, in Sally's case, literally around and beyond the globe, and explored new ways of learning about our society and making it better."

The names were recommended by two campus groups appointed by the vice provost for student affairs and the dean of humanities and sciences, the administrators responsible for the two buildings. The groups sought name recommendations and feedback from the broader campus community, Stanford said.

Ride, who died in 2012, was a physicist, athlete, writer and educator. In 1983, she became the first American woman in space, flying aboard the space shuttle Challenger. She also was a member of the committee that investigated the Challenger's explosion in 1986.

Tessier-Lavigne opened his first commencement address in 2017 with her story. Ride held two undergraduate degrees, in English and physics, and two graduate degrees in physics from Stanford.

After retiring from NASA in 1987, Ride was for two years a science fellow at Stanford's Center for International Security and Arms Control. She went on to teach physics at the University of California, San Diego, and wrote science books for young people with her life partner, Tam O'Shaughnessy, according to Stanford. With O'Shaughnessy and three friends, she founded Sally Ride Science, a UC San Diego nonprofit that aims to inspire young people, particularly girls and minorities, in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) and to promote STEM literacy.

Ride was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2013.

Attneave was born in El Paso, Texas, to mixed Lenni-Lenape and Scandinavian heritage. When she started her psychology career in the 1950s, Native American mental health was "virtually nonexistent," wrote the committee that recommended her name. She provided mental health services to American Indian tribes as the coordinator of community guidance services for the Oklahoma State Department of Health and founded the organizations now known as the Society of Indian Psychologists and North American Indian Center of Boston.

She earned two Stanford education degrees, a master's in 1947 and doctorate in 1952. As a doctoral student, she studied the educational needs of Japanese-Americans interned during World War II and the counseling needs of African-American communities in Philadelphia, Stanford said in its announcement.

Attneave went on to teach at the Boston University School of Medicine and the University of Washington, worked with the Harvard School of Public Health and conducted research at Saint Vincent College in Latrobe, Pennsylvania. She died in 1992.

Matthew Tiews, associate vice president for campus engagement, said Stanford plans to create plaques and displays to further educate the campus about the two women's legacies. The displays will include not only information about their careers but also "the harmful impacts of the mission system on Native Americans that inspired the university's decision to rename the structures," the university's announcement states.

"Beyond that, we also want to use this as an opportunity to have ongoing conversations about the contributions that Native Americans have made to Stanford and to honor the history of Native Americans on Stanford lands, which are the homeland of the Muwekma Ohlone people," Tiews said.

Stanford also plans to "develop other materials to tell a fuller story of Stanford's history," including highlighting Jane Stanford's contributions to the university and "a discussion of Serra's multifaceted legacy as the founder of the California mission system."

Last year, the Palo Alto school board voted to rename two middle schools after Frank S. Greene, Jr., an African-American technologist, and Ellen Fletcher, a Holocaust survivor known for her decades of civic leadership in Palo Alto. The schools had previously honored David Starr Jordan and Lewis Terman, each with strong connections to Stanford, who were criticized for their advocacy of eugenics.

Comments

H. Lee
Evergreen Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 10:19 am
H. Lee, Evergreen Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 10:19 am
30 people like this

A good call by Stanford University. Getting rid of Junipero Serra makes sense as he brutalized countless Native California Indians as part of the Spanish colonization process. Amazing how so many of us were brainwashed as children at PAUSD elementary schools into believing he was a good guy...not.

In the future, there should be even more women acknowledged at Stanford. One noteworthy area would be in the various biology labs where many are lab directors overseeing post-doc programs.

Diversity should also play a major role in these renamings. Let's also have some buildings named after Chinese scientists/scholars who have made major contributions to academia & the business world at large. Ironic given Leland Stanford's earlier work force exploitations but akin to the revisionist perspectives of Junipero Serra.

Any references to non PC historical figures should be eradicated as they had their day in the sun when people were either less enlightened or purely ignorant.


Annette
Registered user
College Terrace
on Feb 28, 2019 at 10:39 am
Annette, College Terrace
Registered user
on Feb 28, 2019 at 10:39 am
8 people like this

Inspiring women - great choices!


Palo Alto citizen
Barron Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 10:54 am
Palo Alto citizen, Barron Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 10:54 am
3 people like this

The caption beneath the picture says one of the buildings was named after Sally Field, not Sally Ride. Really?


Resident
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 28, 2019 at 11:29 am
Resident, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 28, 2019 at 11:29 am
39 people like this

Here we go again!

Judging history by 2019 standards is wrong, wrong, wrong. Historical figures did what they did by the ethics of the time, not the ethics of the future which they could not possibly have been aware of.

We have no idea which of our present standards will one day be morally wrong. Our stand out personalities of the present are not without blemish. Just like every other person who has lived, they do good things and bad things. We should honor the good and understand that the bad things meant that they were normal human beings of their time.

Now stop the madness.


fekarih
Crescent Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:21 pm
fekarih, Crescent Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:21 pm
7 people like this

"Diversity should also play a major role in these renamings. Let's also have some buildings named after Chinese scientists/scholars"

Let's set up quotas.


Rabii Feldman
another community
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:37 pm
Rabii Feldman, another community
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:37 pm
37 people like this

> Historical figures did what they did by the ethics of the time, not the ethics of the future which they could not possibly have been aware of.

I disagree. That would be like Germany deciding not to remove any complimentary accolades to the Fuhrer.

> We should honor the good and UNDERSTAND THAT THE BAD THINGS MEANT THEY WERE NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS OF THEIR TIME.

Seriously?


fekarih
Crescent Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:41 pm
fekarih, Crescent Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:41 pm
14 people like this

"That would be like Germany deciding not to remove any complimentary accolades to the Fuhrer."

Equating Father Serra with Adolf Hitler is quite a stretch.


Me 2
Old Palo Alto
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:47 pm
Me 2, Old Palo Alto
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:47 pm
21 people like this

Interpreting history out of context allows for history to repeat itself.

"Any references to non PC historical figures should be eradicated as they had their day in the sun when people were either less enlightened or purely ignorant."

How about a nice book burning?


Rabii Feldman
another community
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:53 pm
Rabii Feldman, another community
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:53 pm
23 people like this

> Equating Father Serra with Adolf Hitler is quite a stretch.

Nobody is equating anybody with anybody. This is about acknowledging wrongdoings in the present tense rather than waiting for history to condemn these acts later down the road.

Using 'normal' as an excuse doesn't quite cut it...unenlightened individuals often cling to that alibi but it doesn't hold water over the long haul.

There are countless examples & far too many to list.

shalom & walk in peace


Rabii Feldman
another community
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:59 pm
Rabii Feldman, another community
on Feb 28, 2019 at 12:59 pm
20 people like this

> "Any references to non PC historical figures should be eradicated as they had their day in the sun when people were either less enlightened or purely ignorant."

Again I disagree. These non-PC references should be preserved as a means of promoting human evolvement...to show how far we have hopefully progressed.

> How about a nice book burning?

Answer/response same as above.


resident
Downtown North
on Feb 28, 2019 at 1:12 pm
resident, Downtown North
on Feb 28, 2019 at 1:12 pm
11 people like this

Why not rename Serra Street, too? Leaving the street name makes the other changes half-assed at best.


mass at home
Adobe-Meadow
on Feb 28, 2019 at 1:24 pm
mass at home, Adobe-Meadow
on Feb 28, 2019 at 1:24 pm
23 people like this

>> Judging history by 2019 standards is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Torture in the name of Jesus was okay? (The question isn't did it happen; it did, a lot.)


When Being Normal Is Abnormal
Menlo Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 3:25 pm
When Being Normal Is Abnormal, Menlo Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 3:25 pm
22 people like this

> We should honor the good and understand that the bad things meant that they were normal human beings of their time.

You mean like the Spanish Inquisition & the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre where 25,000+ French Huguenots (aka Protestants) were slaughtered & then Pope Gregory (of calendar fame) created a commemorative coin to celebrate the occasion...all because some wealthy aristocrat named Catherine D'Medici wanted to ensure her place in heaven? How normal.

> Historical figures did what they did by the ethics of the time, not the ethics of the future which they could not possibly have been aware of.

Ethics of the time? Awareness of what?

It's a big mistake to have heroes & idols...a sign of stupidity & ignorance.


resident
Downtown North
on Feb 28, 2019 at 3:44 pm
resident, Downtown North
on Feb 28, 2019 at 3:44 pm
14 people like this

The ethics of that period is that Christians did not consider non-white people to be human beings and therefore torture, murder, and slavery were OK.


Bad People...Bad Deeds
another community
on Feb 28, 2019 at 4:00 pm
Bad People...Bad Deeds, another community
on Feb 28, 2019 at 4:00 pm
15 people like this

> The ethics of that period is that Christians did not consider non-white people to be human beings and therefore torture, murder, and slavery were OK.

White non-Catholic people also had a target on their back in certain countries where Catholicism was the predominant religion.

The Inquisition was still in full swing at the time and the sephardic Jews in Spain were forced to convert to Catholicism while the French Protestants were getting wiped out...some eventually moved to America.

Meanwhile the humble Jesuit priest Junipero Serra was converting thousands of California Indians & putting them to work building the missions & the farm fields.

It will be great to see all of these statues honoring false heroes come down over time.


AnthroMan
Stanford
on Feb 28, 2019 at 7:56 pm
AnthroMan, Stanford
on Feb 28, 2019 at 7:56 pm
15 people like this

"Meanwhile the humble Jesuit priest Junipero Serra..."

Junipero Serra was a member of the Franciscan Order and prior to founding the California missions he was based in Mexico where he exorcised the native Indians of practicing what the Church considered witchcraft as per the doctrines of the Spanish Inquisition.

He also practiced self-flagellation & wore thorns under his frock to punish himself for having sinful thoughts. Based on his devout beliefs, his punishment & torture of renegade California Indians was considered an act of repentence, to bring them closer to the Almighty.

This is probably why there are so few Native California Indians remaining today. While many of their ancestors married into Spanish/Mexican families (following their conversions) a 50-100% Native California Indian is non-existant as even the ones who are proprietors of statewide CA gaming casinos o not have Indian surnames.

Junipero Serra & his legions of priests were very successful in assimilating the Native California Indians into the culture & practices of the western Catholic world.

That is why he became so endeared to schoolchildren throughout California elementary schools.




AnthroMan
Stanford
on Feb 28, 2019 at 8:07 pm
AnthroMan, Stanford
on Feb 28, 2019 at 8:07 pm
18 people like this

> Why not rename Serra Street, too? Leaving the street name makes the other changes half-assed at best.

How about a compromise? Rename Serra Street 'Sierra Street'. That way people can call it whatever they prefer & still arrive at the same destination with no confusion.


redplanet
University South
on Feb 28, 2019 at 11:04 pm
redplanet, University South
on Feb 28, 2019 at 11:04 pm
8 people like this

Where to begin and when to end? The rewriting of history through erasure is not the path to understanding and growth. I don't even know where to begin when we discuss writers, for example. Should Stanford stop teaching Dickens who ignored his 10 children and tried to get rid of his unwanted wife for his mistress by trying to get her admitted to a mental hospital? Take this as an example of Dickens: "...on the occasion of the birth of his son Plorn (full name Edward Bulwer Lytton Dickens): "on the whole I could have dispensed with him." " The disclosures of who he really was is no surprise - with the exception of Shakespeare (because we know so little of him) most writers have been outed for so much. Do we then ignore their writings? David Starr Jordan has been accused of murdering Jane Stanford. I remember Jordan Hall well. Still there, isn't it? BUT Jordan Middle School is gone because he was into enhancement through genetics? He was the forerunner of sperm and egg donation check lists and now, Crispr. One day there will be a class at Stanford entitled The Era When They Renamed the World: What Good Did It Do? Change is the only constant - let us use the past to understand that.


Vlad
Barron Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 11:24 pm
Vlad, Barron Park
on Feb 28, 2019 at 11:24 pm
9 people like this

Contrary to the headline, Valentina Tereshkova was the first woman in space.


Anon
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2019 at 8:54 am
Anon, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2019 at 8:54 am
2 people like this

Posted by Vlad, a resident of Barron Park

>> Contrary to the headline, Valentina Tereshkova was the first woman in space.

In 1963, no less!

Nevertheless, Sally Ride was a remarkable individual who made enormous contributions to humanity. (I will skip the biography here.) If we must name buildings after people, I can't think of a better choice.



AnthroMan
Stanford
on Mar 1, 2019 at 9:15 am
AnthroMan, Stanford
on Mar 1, 2019 at 9:15 am
17 people like this

> The rewriting of history through erasure is not the path to understanding and growth.

> One day there will be a class at Stanford entitled The Era When They Renamed the World: What Good Did It Do? Change is the only constant - let us use the past to understand that.

> We should honor the good and UNDERSTAND THAT THE BAD THINGS MEANT THEY WERE NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS OF THEIR TIME.

Here's another idea for the sake of education & enlightenment...why doesn't someone establish a collection of all these controversial statues/remembrances and create a Museum of 'Normal' Era-Specific Ignorance?

Being the curator would be fun.



mass at home
Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 1, 2019 at 9:21 am
mass at home, Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 1, 2019 at 9:21 am
22 people like this

> The rewriting of history

No one is 'rewriting' history. We just choose to no longer celebrate the lives of those who tortured in the name of Jesus.

Just as we no longer wish to celebrate the traitors to our country who revolted in the name of slavery. No rewriting of history there, either.

Agree - move all the statues to a museum.


Anonymous
Professorville
on Mar 1, 2019 at 10:41 am
Anonymous, Professorville
on Mar 1, 2019 at 10:41 am
3 people like this

**correction: Sally Ride was not the first woman in Space. She was the first American woman in space, but Valentina Tereshkova of the USSR went on a solo mission into space in 1963, more than 20 years before Sally Ride.


Resident
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2019 at 11:21 am
Resident, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 1, 2019 at 11:21 am
3 people like this

There always have been terrible things happening in the world done by terrible people.

However there have been good things done in the past that were done by honorable people who were honored for their good deeds shortly after they were done. The way they were honored is by having a statue or by naming a place in their honor. This was done at the time with careful thought by those who suggested the honor and perhaps paid for an artist to commission a piece of artwork. This was not done lightly.

Now it seems that historical people are being dishonored by these pieces of art or names changed. To me that is altering history. Jordan, Terman, Serra, were thought worthy to honor. Washington, Lincoln, King, Kennedy, were all thought worthy of honor also. I hear no mention of their names being taken out of usage - yet, however nothing would surprise me. [Portion removed.]


mass at home
Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 1, 2019 at 12:02 pm
mass at home, Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 1, 2019 at 12:02 pm
13 people like this

> Now it seems that historical people are being dishonored by these pieces of art or names changed.

They are not being dishonored by these actions. They dishonored themselves with THEIR actions. We are just now catching up.

Witness the removal of various statues of traitors/supporters of human trafficking in the South.

re: your other names - perfect whataboutism! Well played. (not)


Bad People Don't Deserve Statues
Downtown North
on Mar 1, 2019 at 6:00 pm
Bad People Don't Deserve Statues, Downtown North
on Mar 1, 2019 at 6:00 pm
25 people like this

> The way they were honored is by having a statue or by naming a place in their honor. This was done at the time with careful thought by those who suggested the honor and perhaps paid for an artist to commission a piece of artwork. This was not done lightly.

Witness the removal of Sadaam Hussein in Iraq...chances are he commissioned his own statue!

>> They dishonored themselves with THEIR actions. We are just now catching up.

Witness the removal of various statues of traitors/supporters of human trafficking in the South.

Meanwhile back in the USA, Confederacy themed statues are becoming 'history' in their own right...as in taken down.


JR
Palo Verde
on Mar 1, 2019 at 6:45 pm
JR, Palo Verde
on Mar 1, 2019 at 6:45 pm
Like this comment

Unfortunately Stanford cannot name a building after Palo Alto native Jeremy Lin because Lin did not attend Stanford -- they rejected Lin and he attended Harvard instead. Meanwhile Stanford admitted criminals like Brock Turner.


Bunyip
Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 1, 2019 at 11:23 pm
Bunyip, Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 1, 2019 at 11:23 pm
19 people like this

What about condeleeza rice? She deserves a building named after her. How else will we remember her for leading the US into a fake war for 15 years? Lest not history be written for her too!


AnthroMan
Stanford
on Mar 2, 2019 at 7:40 am
AnthroMan, Stanford
on Mar 2, 2019 at 7:40 am
5 people like this

Torture in the name of Jesus was okay? (The question isn't did it happen; it did, a lot.)

Amazing how faith is often used to justify inhumanity...all religions have incorporated this outreach strategy at one time or another.

The key to preserving one's statue is to be on the winning side of a conflict.

History is also written by the winners.







Marrol
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 9:40 am
Marrol, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 9:40 am
23 people like this

A reasonable balance of historical perspective and context needs to be applied to these decisions. Otherwise where does it end? As a society should we eradicate any reference or monument to ancient indigenous cultures because they practiced human sacrifice and slavery? What about national monuments dedicated to our founders like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson? Both were Virginia slave owners.

If Catholicism and the Franciscan expansion in Alta California is summarily condemned for its faults, then should we not erase any religious references that stemmed from that period to every public place and institution. For example any city, town, or county with the Spanish word "San" or "Santa" contained within it should be changed. Under that logic wouldn't it be equally inappropriate to allow those names and titles to remain.

So where does it end?


AnthroMan
Stanford
on Mar 2, 2019 at 9:53 am
AnthroMan, Stanford
on Mar 2, 2019 at 9:53 am
13 people like this

> For example any city, town, or county with the Spanish word "San" or "Santa" contained within it should be changed. Under that logic wouldn't it be equally inappropriate to allow those names and titles to remain.

Perhaps so & it would be no big deal. Professional sports stadiums change their names all the time depending on corporate sponsorship.

Imagine the fun (and controversy) of having each CA city with a 'San or Santa' be forced to rename itself through a public election.

Palo Alto would be allowed to keep its name as it only stands for that pathetic-looking tree by the RR trestle...'The Big Stick' or something along those lines.


Marrol
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 10:20 am
Marrol, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 10:20 am
6 people like this

It would be interesting to say the least Anthro, and over time you're probably right, people would inevitably adjust and move on. Ultimately the question becomes is it the right thing to do?


Marrol
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 10:56 am
Marrol, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 10:56 am
26 people like this

Not to belabor the point, but those of you with a Stanford address or affiliation could also be up for additional name changes under this logic.

History tells us that Leland Stanford himself expressed highly racist opinions about the Chinese during an address to the California State Legislature in 1862 where he stated, "The presence of numbers of that degraded and distinct people would exercise a deleterious effect upon the superior race." There is also the issue that under his leadership during the railroad expansion that tremendous atrocities were inflicted on the Chinese labor force and people.

So when do we change the name of Stanford University? Where is the bar for historical context and balance going to be set? Is there room to consider that perspective and look at the whole person and balance the good and the bad, which after all is a reflection of the human experience? Or do we go down that path of potential hypocrisy and cherry pick who stays and who goes based on selective memory or personal interests.

Anthro, and I'm smiling with you when I say this humorously, if they were to ever change the name of Stanford University, perhaps they should take your cue and consider "Big Stick".


University Names Aren't Important
Stanford
on Mar 2, 2019 at 12:14 pm
University Names Aren't Important, Stanford
on Mar 2, 2019 at 12:14 pm
15 people like this

> History tells us that Leland Stanford himself expressed highly racist opinions about the Chinese during an address to the California State Legislature in 1862 where he stated, "The presence of numbers of that degraded and distinct people would exercise a deleterious effect upon the superior race." There is also the issue that under his leadership during the railroad expansion that tremendous atrocities were inflicted on the Chinese labor force and people.

Leland Stanford was an evil man & a cut-throat capitalist as he exploited cheap Chinese labor to build the railroad yet denigrated their presence in everyday 'white' society.

> So when do we change the name of Stanford University?

When enough people clamor for a change of university name. The Stanford Indian mascot was removed & became The Cardinal decades ago.

Perhaps as the Chinese population in Palo Alto grows past 40% will this initiative be seriously considered. After all, they succeeded in preventing the renaming of Terman to Fred Yamamoto even though Mr. Yamamoto was a native Palo Alto son & a decorated World War II decorated hero. Power in numbers.

About the only ones who might raise a gripe about a university name change would be the fund-raisers, pedigree conscious & the older alumni you see at Stanford football games wearing those cardinal-colored baseball caps with the white S...proud members of the 'Old Red' contingency. In time, the older alumni will eventually pass on & be forgotten by most people.









Marrol
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 2:17 pm
Marrol, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 2:17 pm
19 people like this

If you could elaborate further University Names Aren't Important and others. There are apparently enough people of influence, and certainly enough voices within the greater Stanford community to bring about the Serra name changes. Why is that lobby not raising equal concern and applying that standard and principle to the university's namesake and his history of racism and oppression of the Chinese labor force and people? Maybe there is, I don't know.

I can't imagine that it would be simple matter of time and historical context. Serra and the expansion of the missions and Catholicism, and all of its negative impact on the indigenous population, took place an entire century before Stanford came on the scene. So what's the explanation? Why does Leland Stanford, at least currently, seem to be getting a pass? Where are the calls to rename the university? Where are the people who lobbied to erase Serra's name from these buildings? Why are they not equally acknowledging Leland Stanford's racist past and demanding a change? Not to consider taking that stand could easily be viewed upon as hypocrisy.

Could it be that they are judging Leland Stanford with more perspective, balance, and historical context? Or could there be other thoughts and motivations at play like personal bias and self-interest. Is it easier to target Serra because of his Hispanic heritage, his religion, or that it just simply took place that much longer ago?

No easy answers and many different perspectives. I certainly don't have all of the answers, but I am of the belief that this road of erasing history has many blind curves an steep slopes. We have to navigate carefully and thoughtfully. Otherwise, I'll ask again, where does it all end?


The name game
another community
on Mar 2, 2019 at 2:47 pm
The name game, another community
on Mar 2, 2019 at 2:47 pm
5 people like this

"Could it be that they are judging Leland Stanford with more perspective, balance, and historical context?"

"Or could there be other thoughts and motivations at play like personal bias and self-interest."

> answers/reasons:

(1) personal bias, self-interests & name recognition.

(2) the school, its alumni association & development department (fundraising) are unwilling to change the name of the university. the name Stanford = $$$

"Why does Leland Stanford, at least currently, seem to be getting a pass?"

(3) because most people are willing to turn a blind eye to his prior racist & business indiscretions.

the same goes for mark hopkins, colis huntington & charles crocker. one has a venerable hotel named after him & the other a well-known beach town in southern california. no one is going to change those names again...because of $$$.

crocker bank got absorbed by wells fargo.


Me 2
Old Palo Alto
on Mar 2, 2019 at 3:27 pm
Me 2, Old Palo Alto
on Mar 2, 2019 at 3:27 pm
4 people like this

"Perhaps as the Chinese population in Palo Alto grows past 40% will this initiative be seriously considered."

Probably not. You are making the same mistake that many people make by lumping a whole group together. That's like lumping in Europeans all together mixed in people of European descent in one large group. If that sounds ridiculous, then lumping all "Chinese" together is equally silly.

People of Chinese heritage come from different backgrounds, whether it's the Cantonese/Fujianese/Hokkien/Teochow diaspora that worked the railroads among other things, the well-educated from Taiwan from 1965 and onwards, the Singaporean Chinese, or the mainlanders that are more recently arrived. And let's not forget the number of Chinese-Americans that were born and raised here.(I'm leaving out a ton of other Chinese groups)

For instance, I seriously doubt the mainlanders over here even know or care about what Leland Stanford did back in 1800s. That's like the Germans worrying about how the French were treated over a hundred years ago.

But the bottom line is that constantly bleating about past historical wrongs and trying to correct them now is a divisive and superficial endeavor. At least the South Africans were able to get past apartheid. History is something from which to be learned, not erased.


Which Diaspora?
Stanford
on Mar 2, 2019 at 3:35 pm
Which Diaspora?, Stanford
on Mar 2, 2019 at 3:35 pm
13 people like this

> People of Chinese heritage come from different backgrounds, whether it's the Cantonese/Fujianese/Hokkien/Teochow diaspora that worked the railroads among other things, the well-educated from Taiwan from 1965 and onwards, the Singaporean Chinese, or the mainlanders that are more recently arrived. And let's not forget the number of Chinese-Americans that were born and raised here.(I'm leaving out a ton of other Chinese groups)

Curious. So which specific group complained about the renaming of Terman & mistakenly confused a Japanese American from Palo Alto with an admiral in the Imperial navy during World War II?


Marrol
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 4:54 pm
Marrol, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 4:54 pm
15 people like this

Personally I would like to hear from anyone involved in the building/facility name changes at Stanford. I'm curious what there thoughts would be on this subject. Has there been any thought on the issue of the Stanford name itself being considered for a change based on his apparent racist past? If not, how was that processed and the decision justified?

I don't mean to come across demanding in this request. No one certainly owes me an explanation. Just curious and thought it could further the conversation and shed greater light on the subject.


Selective Name Changes
Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 2, 2019 at 5:09 pm
Selective Name Changes, Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 2, 2019 at 5:09 pm
8 people like this

> Has there been any thought on the issue of the Stanford name itself being considered for a change based on his apparent racist past? If not, how was that processed and the decision justified?

I think 'name of the game' summed it up. It's all about money, reputation, fund raising opportunities & name recognition.


Marrol
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 5:15 pm
Marrol, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Mar 2, 2019 at 5:15 pm
5 people like this

Selective Name Change, if that is indeed true, another sad reminder of utter hypocrisy which is so blatantly obvious.


Me 2
Old Palo Alto
on Mar 2, 2019 at 6:08 pm
Me 2, Old Palo Alto
on Mar 2, 2019 at 6:08 pm
Like this comment

"Curious. So which specific group complained about the renaming of Terman & mistakenly confused a Japanese American from Palo Alto with an admiral in the Imperial navy during World War II?"

It's a good question. Since they were so public about it, why don't you ask them?


AnthroMan
Stanford
on Mar 2, 2019 at 6:21 pm
AnthroMan, Stanford
on Mar 2, 2019 at 6:21 pm
4 people like this

Periodic corporate naming rights would solve this touchy conundrum.

Some examples...Oracle University, The University of Musk, Google Institute of Technology, The University of Apple etc.

Oracle University actually sounds pretty good...the others, not so much.


Larry
Downtown North
on Mar 2, 2019 at 7:00 pm
Larry, Downtown North
on Mar 2, 2019 at 7:00 pm
6 people like this

I believe the university is named for the son, Leland junior, not the (arguably racist and crooked) father, Leland senior. But maybe that is too fine of a point for the causal thinkers who rename things. Similarly, Terman could have been renamed for the son instead of both father and son. As far as I know, the son would have been a wonderful and deserving namesake.


The Key To Being Remembered In A Good Light
another community
on Mar 2, 2019 at 8:31 pm
The Key To Being Remembered In A Good Light, another community
on Mar 2, 2019 at 8:31 pm
7 people like this

The key to avoiding controversial name associations is if one creates a charitable foundation that doles out lots of money. Then whatever misdeeds or questionable business practices a person may have committed is not as scrutinized to the same extent as other historical figures who didn't shell out the CASH.

Some examples...The Rockefeller Foundation, Carnegie Foundation, Gates Foundation etc. All succeeded due to some questionable business practices.

Of course on the other end of the spectrum, you have the Clinton Foundation which takes in exorbitant amounts of donor money & only shells out 3% of it, claiming that 97% of its charitable work is being done 'in-house'. Go figure.

Perhaps if Father Serra & all of the Civil War generals had created foundations
their statues & the various streets named after them would still be in existence in some areas.

Saddam Hussein's statue also got pulled down so it can be safely assumed that he too did not create a charitable foundation.


Long Time Resident
Palo Alto High School
on Mar 2, 2019 at 11:04 pm
Long Time Resident, Palo Alto High School
on Mar 2, 2019 at 11:04 pm
21 people like this

Saint Junipero Serra did not ask that his name be used on any buildings or streets. Unlike many others seeking a quick tax write-off and a name to claim fame and family honor, St. Serra was neither. His name should be kept because he was important in the transformation of our state, and also for his work in Mexico. A historical perspective of the conditions at that time should be used as a reference before making judgments. Things were much different in this rugged and rural western area back in 1750. I think his name would stay.


AnthroMan
Stanford
on Mar 3, 2019 at 8:08 am
AnthroMan, Stanford
on Mar 3, 2019 at 8:08 am
30 people like this

>...he was important in the transformation of our state, and also for his work in Mexico. A historical perspective of the conditions at that time should be used as a reference before making judgments.

>>> Torture in the name of Jesus was okay? (The question isn't did it happen; it did, a lot.)
>>>...prior to founding the California missions he was based in Mexico where he exorcised the native Indians of practicing what the Church considered witchcraft as per the doctrines of the Spanish Inquisition.


The problem that arises here is that the conversion techniques (used in the name of the church & colonial assimilation objectives) ends up destroying native cultures & 'converts' these former hunter/gatherer people into peasants...who out of desperation & despair, now support & turn to the Church for their spiritual needs & hope of salvation.

A very clever business practice on the part of the church & how native cultures get destroyed in the process.

Though St. Serra did not ask to have a street named after him, his sainthood & street namings are more reflective of those who endorse fear, coercion & torture as a means of cultural assimilation and/or of personal ignorance & disregard for human rights.

This kind of stuff is still going on today...read the newspapers.






R.Davis
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Mar 3, 2019 at 8:38 am
R.Davis, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Mar 3, 2019 at 8:38 am
20 people like this

QUOTE: The problem that arises here is that the conversion techniques (used in the name of the church & colonial assimilation objectives) ends up destroying native cultures & 'converts' these former hunter/gatherer people into peasants.

The same thing happened in Hawaii. The Congregationalist missionaries from New England literally destroyed the native Hawaiian culture with their conversions & subsequent land grabs.

They also used fear & coercion as a means of getting their point through to the native islanders & based on what eventually transpired...there are still people of native Hawaiian ancestry who distrust & despise the mainland haole.



LSJU79
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 3, 2019 at 11:38 am
LSJU79, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 3, 2019 at 11:38 am
11 people like this

Why not change the name of Stanford again? It has already been changed once.

The corporate conglomerate also known as Stanford is driven by the same corporate group think that drives all corporate buracracies. The corporate bureaucrats have quietly transformed the university's name from the difficult to explain Leland Stanford Junior University to the much more marketable "stanford" (note lowercase "s").

Renaming the streets is just more of the same.


SJSU-78
another community
on Mar 3, 2019 at 12:58 pm
SJSU-78, another community
on Mar 3, 2019 at 12:58 pm
11 people like this

> The corporate conglomerate also known as Stanford is driven by the same corporate group think that drives all corporate buracracies.

Agreed. What most people don't seem to understand is that 'stanford' is a BUSINESS more than it is a university.

> Renaming the streets is just more of the same.

Like renaming Enron Park in Houston to Minute Maid Ballpark.

Just another cover-up for bad PR & to generate more revenue.


A Black Man Speaketh
Ventura
on Mar 3, 2019 at 3:35 pm
A Black Man Speaketh, Ventura
on Mar 3, 2019 at 3:35 pm
6 people like this

In terms of noteworthy recognition, Stanford University should consider naming a street or building after Samuel Codes Watson, the first African-American to graduate from Stanford University. He was admitted to Stanford in 1891 & graduated in 1895, the university's first graduating class. Mr. Watson then went on to complete law school & died in 1898 of tuberculosis. He was a proud university graduate & his Stanford diploma is buried with him in his grave.

The Stanfords were abolitionists & deserve some credit for Mr. Watson's acceptance to the university. Though Leland Stanford may have had it in for the Chinese, he did believe in freeing black people.

The first Chinese graduate of Stanford was Walter Fong in 1896, the university's second graduating class. At the time, most of the Chinese employed by the Stanfords at the University & Farm were as gardeners & groundskeepers.

When Mrs. Stanford died mysteriously, her Chinese butler Ah Wing was blamed & demonized by the racist newspaper of the time...San Francisco Chronicle. After being exonerated & following the 1906 SF Earthquake, he returned to China.

So instead of Junipero Serra, there are far better candidates for memorial street & building naming at the university...a Watson or Fong building/street & perhaps even a wing named after Ah Wing.

Besides, St. Serra didn't even go to Stanford and his involvement with the university is nil.


Keep Stanford Secular
Stanford
on Mar 3, 2019 at 7:12 pm
Keep Stanford Secular, Stanford
on Mar 3, 2019 at 7:12 pm
2 people like this

"Let's also have some buildings named after Chinese scientists/scholars who have made major contributions to academia & the business world at large."

"Besides, St. Serra didn't even go to Stanford and his involvement with the university is nil."

Why not have some buildings named after esteemed Chinese graduates. At least they actually went to Stanford. St. Serra namings should be reserved (if at all) for Franciscan universities & colleges...not secular ones.

His name doesn't belong on the Stanford campus & wiser decision-makers have come to this conclusion.


musical
Palo Verde
on Mar 3, 2019 at 10:08 pm
musical, Palo Verde
on Mar 3, 2019 at 10:08 pm
2 people like this

^ Secular? The first thing one sees on entering the Quad is a Church.


Big Red
Stanford
on Mar 4, 2019 at 7:39 am
Big Red, Stanford
on Mar 4, 2019 at 7:39 am
21 people like this

> Secular? The first thing one sees on entering the Quad is a Church.

The university's Founding Grant of Endowment from the Stanfords was issued in November 1885. Besides defining the operational structure of the university, it made several specific stipulations...#2 is noteworthy.

(2) To prohibit sectarian instruction, but to have taught in the University the immortality of the soul, the existence of an all-wise and benevolent Creator, and that obedience to His laws is the highest duty of man.

So in some ways, Junipero Serra characterized the philosophy behind the founding of the university based on his tireless efforts to enlighten the Native California Indians.

Also, wasn't the original Stanford mascot & team name called the Indians? Perhaps this was a subtle euphemism for the goal of enriching of lives & education of the incoming Stanford students.

Had Junipero Serra been an alumni from Stanford, perhaps this street name would have remained.





That Statue on 280 Is Bizarre
Woodside
on Mar 4, 2019 at 3:34 pm
That Statue on 280 Is Bizarre, Woodside
on Mar 4, 2019 at 3:34 pm
13 people like this

The section of HWY 280 from Cupertino to Daly City called the Junipero Serra Freeway should also be renamed and that hideous concrete statue of him near Hillsborough speaks volumes.

There is no accounting for taste.


A Statue For Posterity
Woodside
on Mar 4, 2019 at 7:51 pm
A Statue For Posterity, Woodside
on Mar 4, 2019 at 7:51 pm
12 people like this

>...that hideous concrete statue of him near Hillsborough speaks volumes.
> There is no accounting for taste.

Web Link

That statue is hilarious! It's about as bad as the goofy 'Friends' sculpture that used to be on Embarcadero near the lawn bowling greens.


Neighbor
Palo Alto High School
on Mar 4, 2019 at 8:08 pm
Neighbor, Palo Alto High School
on Mar 4, 2019 at 8:08 pm
Like this comment

I can think of sexist, racist entities, major human rights violators:
Like China, Saudi Arabia, ISIS etc.
Tech individuals with disturbing backgrounds in their published comments and/or despicable or condescending treatment of/associations with women:
Evan Spiegel, Hurd, Musk, Uber etc.
These things are negative, scary, incorrect for the world of 2019 RIGHT NOW.
Try not to support these countries, entities, individuals. Thanks.


iii
Midtown
on Mar 5, 2019 at 7:36 am
iii, Midtown
on Mar 5, 2019 at 7:36 am
4 people like this

Wow.... Am very impressed with both the pros and cons of this subject.
I guess my thinking: Was Serra trying to do good? Or was he an evil provider of taking lands and giving to the church or "white man".
Then again, no matter what anyone says. Pioneers would have to then be considered evil, as they wanted to take and cultivate land lived on for eons by native Indians. This all started for us with the Pilgrims. Another preyed upon peoples from Europe.
In the end. Without Serra, Without Pioneers, Without Pilgrims, Without Manifest Destiny, we might not be alive to spar with our words and new found right-chess-ness. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.... Look into the history of Leland Stanford and his land grabs, under the table deals, and his very own footprint in his time with the other robber barons of his day. OH NO CHANGE University of STANFORD's name to something else?
I donno, I loved the names of Terman and Jordan for the past 50yrs. But they fell they way of this new wave of thinking we are better now that we have flushing toilets and laws, and cameras watching us on every corner...
Wadda I knows.....LOL.... Me, leave some stuff alone and move on.
III


In Retrospect
Stanford
on Mar 5, 2019 at 8:04 am
In Retrospect, Stanford
on Mar 5, 2019 at 8:04 am
14 people like this

Sometimes various cultures have to be destroyed & land stolen in order to set the wheels further in motion for progress & development.

The Aztecs were destroyed by the Spaniards in their quest for gold but prior to the conquistadors, the Aztecs were well known for conquering & brutalizing neighboring tribes. As a matter of fact, some of the local tribes actually formed alliances with the Spaniards to help them defeat the Aztec regime. What comes around goes around.

This is the history of mankind going back to the BC days & it is still occurring today. Ethnic & cultural cleansing are key components to the strategy of acquisition and assimilation. It is necessary to ensure the proper functioning of the replacement regime.

Thus St. Serra was simply assisting in the assimilation of Native Mexican & California Indians to Spanish culture & religion. A century later, Maximillian brought the polka & beer-making skills to Mexico and as a result, Mexican music sounds like a polka & Mexican beer is among the best in the world.

The same can be said of the robber barons in California. Many of the recipients of Spanish & Mexican land grants were land-rich but cash poor & as a result, their rancheros were eventually broken down into smaller parcels and then liquidated...purchased by the newer white settlers arriving in California.

Exploiting cheaper labor is the only way to accomplish certain objectives in a profitable manner. This is basic economics & it is illustrated daily...whether in professional sports, operating sweat shops for designer clothes and/or continuing opposition to trade unions. CASH is king in the western worls & many Asian countries & business owners have also come to embrace the allure of capital.

So all things considerd, destroying the lives & cultures of others is a part of human history during the course of expansionism.

The question is...who is & who will be the one's who eventually destroys Ameican culture in its quest for omnipotence?





mass at home
Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 5, 2019 at 9:13 am
mass at home, Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 5, 2019 at 9:13 am
2 people like this

> Sometimes various cultures have to be destroyed & land stolen..,

Y'all need to read that first sentence again. And again. Incredible.


Life Is Change
Menlo Park
on Mar 5, 2019 at 1:22 pm
Life Is Change, Menlo Park
on Mar 5, 2019 at 1:22 pm
12 people like this

> The question is...who is & who will be the one's who eventually destroys American culture in its quest for omnipotence?

In their quest for pseudo-cultural omnipotence, I suspect it will be the Millennials.


Anon
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 6, 2019 at 11:57 am
Anon, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 6, 2019 at 11:57 am
Like this comment

I was already mostly familiar with the outstanding achievements of Sally Ride, but, not familiar with Carolyn Attneave. Perhaps not surprisingly, she turns out to be quite interesting as well. She died in 1992, and was never famous in the way that Sally Ride was, but, Attneave was also very accomplished as well as interesting. (Check Google Scholar for both Ride and Attneave.)

This little item might pique someone's interest, as it did mine: Web Link


St. Serra Was Truly A Saint
another community
on Mar 6, 2019 at 12:25 pm
St. Serra Was Truly A Saint, another community
on Mar 6, 2019 at 12:25 pm
4 people like this

Devout Catholics will always cherish the deeds & their remembrances of St. Serra who was a humble man simply trying to rescue incorrigible heathens from a doomed afterlife.

By forcing the native CA Indians to accept our savior & by encouraging them to learn animal husbandry, develop farmland & build missions, the native CA Indians learned invaluable new trades & no longer had to forage for food.

A beautiful gesture on his part to enhance the condition of man.




mass at home
Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 6, 2019 at 12:59 pm
mass at home, Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 6, 2019 at 12:59 pm
4 people like this

> By forcing (ie.. torture) the native CA Indians...

I missed his beatification for sainthood - what were his documented miracles? More torture?


Eric Coulson
another community
on Mar 6, 2019 at 3:19 pm
Eric Coulson, another community
on Mar 6, 2019 at 3:19 pm
2 people like this

This discussion is good to get out the true history. Those who won, wrote the history. If you are white you may think Mount Rushmore is patriotic. If you are native American not so much. Everything will disappear in time. Changing from the name given by those that won is not so bad. Also if you change a name of a building or street you can do it one building or street at a time - you can also change it to something else later. They changes Mt McKinley to Denali and I fully support that.


Turning Wine to Water?
Menlo Park
on Mar 6, 2019 at 5:47 pm
Turning Wine to Water?, Menlo Park
on Mar 6, 2019 at 5:47 pm
10 people like this

> I missed his beatification for sainthood - what were his documented miracles?

That Stanford once named a street after him? Just guessing.


The Bigger Picture
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 6, 2019 at 7:06 pm
The Bigger Picture, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 6, 2019 at 7:06 pm
2 people like this

> Devout Catholics will always cherish the deeds & their remembrances of St. Serra who was a humble man simply trying to rescue incorrigible heathens from a doomed afterlife.
> A beautiful gesture on his part to enhance the condition of man.

> By forcing (ie.. torture) the native CA Indians...

The concept of torture goes back to the Crucifixion...it is symbolic & not betaken as a crime against humanity but rather one of salvation.


Tomato Or Tomahto?
another community
on Mar 7, 2019 at 1:45 pm
Tomato Or Tomahto?, another community
on Mar 7, 2019 at 1:45 pm
2 people like this

The concept of torture goes back to the Crucifixion...it is symbolic & not to be taken as a crime against humanity but rather one of salvation.

Salvation measures for some...forced assimilation for others.

A euphemism for cultural cleansing?


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