News

Supervisor to discuss his time in 'Trump's America'

Joe Simitian breaks free from Bay Area 'bubble' to explore varied voter viewpoints

Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian will discuss the observations he made and perspectives he gained from traveling across the country speaking and listening to citizens of "Trump's America" at an event this Saturday hosted by the American Association of University Women of Palo Alto and the League of Women Voters of Palo Alto.

Earlier this year, Simitian (a registered Democrat) traveled to Robeson County, North Carolina; Cambria County, Pennsylvania and Macomb County, Michigan -- places that had previously voted Democrat, but voted Republican in the past election -- where he hoped to gain a better understanding of the concerns of his fellow American citizens.

Forty-six percent of the American electorate voted for President Donald Trump in the fall, which was "dramatically different" from local results including Palo Alto, where 12 percent of voters supported for the GOP candidate, Simitian wrote in a post on the league's website.

Puzzled by this, and not wanting "to dismiss Trump voters as racist, sexist, homophobic, misogynistic or xenophobic," he sought to break free from the "bubble" of the Bay Area, Simitian said.

"My goal was to listen, learn and understand. And I learned a lot," he said.

After spending a week in each place visiting parades, talent shows, candidate forums, biker bars, local museums and a traveling circus and having more than 100 conversations with cops, teachers, librarians, party activists and others from both parties, he is bringing his observations and experiences back home.

Many people were "perplexed" when he introduced himself, but were "hungry to be heard," Simitian said in a phone interview.

"I really didn't know what I would find when I went off to have this series of conversations," he said. He found them to be "not just fascinating, but (also) quite revealing," he added.

Simitian hopes to be able to share the viewpoints of voters across the political divide in order to promote understanding and healing.

The presentation will be held on Saturday, Sept. 16, at 1 p.m., at the Palo Alto City Council Chambers, City Hall, 250 Hamilton Ave. It is free and open to the public.

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Comments

45 people like this
Posted by Sanctimonious City
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 14, 2017 at 2:25 pm

[Portion removed.]

A supposed open-minded intellectual who can't understand why the middle class would support a candidate who would reverse the policies of the last 30 years that have decimated it economically. Slower GDP growth, a massive concentration of wealth to the top 1% ruling class elites, an explosion of budget and trade deficits, lower productivity despite rapid advances in new technology, record unemployment and low labor participation rates, rampant government corruption and active assaults on the 1st, 2nd and 5th amendments.

I am glad Mr. Simitian resisted his natural inner instincts to blanket label 46% of the country as "racist, sexist, homophobic, misogynistic or xenophobic." Perhaps now he can put away his prejudices and instead look to the true causes of Trump's support: globalization, open borders, identity politics and unfair financial regulations.

He could have saved himself the trip.


8 people like this
Posted by Abitarian
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 14, 2017 at 4:11 pm

While I do not always agree with Mr. Simitian, I have found him to be a most thoughtful, approachable, and capable official. He is a very pleasant speaker and his observations will surely be interesting.

I do hope, however, that this trip was not funded by taxpayers, as it does not seem related to his duties as a Santa Clara County Supervisor.


18 people like this
Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 14, 2017 at 4:42 pm

"... understand why the middle class would support a candidate who would reverse the policies of the last 30 years that have decimated it economically. Slower GDP growth, a massive concentration of wealth to the top 1% ruling class elites, an explosion of budget and trade deficits..."

These are the core policies of the Republican Party for which the former middle class has voted since 1980, in the process making itself the *former* middle class and elevating the elite Wall Street swamp rats to the top of the 1%, all in return for coy promises to put Those People back in their place which somehow never seemed to come true.

No surprise Trump stole this carefully cultivated Base with his plainly stated promises to put Those People back in their place, which somehow are not coming true either--note Trump's recent sll-smiles DACA deal with Nancy Pelosi. Makes ya want yer vote back, don't it?


24 people like this
Posted by Goodness
a resident of Barron Park
on Sep 14, 2017 at 4:53 pm

@Curmudgeon: "Makes ya want yer vote back, don't it?"

Kind of offensive slang there, Curmudgeon.
Prejudice is insidious, coming out even in casual communications and revealing the speaker for who they really are. Perhaps you're not as progressive as you like to pretend.


8 people like this
Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 14, 2017 at 5:19 pm

"Kind of offensive slang there, Curmudgeon."

It's the way I grew up talking. A bit needlely, a sly verbal elbow in the ribs, but not offensive, except maybe to some extremely PC-minded persons.

For the record, I've never claimed to be progressive. Just perceptive.


13 people like this
Posted by @Sanctimonious Poster
a resident of Mountain View
on Sep 14, 2017 at 5:34 pm

Okay, we get it -- you're not a fan of Joe Simitian. No one asked you to be one.

Quoting liberally from Breitbart and InfoWars, on the other hand, makes you look like an alt-right crank.


38 people like this
Posted by Nayeli
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 14, 2017 at 6:15 pm

I really hope that Joe isn't being facetious. I hope that he isn't trying to pander to a desired base of support with "tales of the unknown." However, Joe didn't need to travel too far.

I voted for Trump. This isn't HIS America.
This is MY America.
This is YOUR America.
This is OUR America.

The main reason why most people that I know voted for Trump is that they were being treated as though this wasn't THEIR America. Rather, the America that they've known all their lives is being dismantled and given to various special interest groups in exchange for their support and votes.

Most of the people that I've known in the upper midwest (including states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) aren't the "white supremacists" like the pretense from politicians and pundits. They simply feel like they're being ignored and a new "normal" is being forced upon them without their consent.

Of course, it doesn't help when the DNC handpicked the most divisive candidate in history (with the other options being very divisive candidates too).


21 people like this
Posted by Observer
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 14, 2017 at 7:43 pm

Just enforce US federal law, for example: our immigration laws and country borders.
Citizens and legal residents are served by our elected officials and public officials.. Their job is not to cater to/prioritize/grant amnesty ans an obvious future of public benefits, citizenship and voting to random persons, however nice OR criminal, who are from other countries.
Some are illogical in their thinking.
Let's be logical.


8 people like this
Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 14, 2017 at 9:42 pm

"They simply feel like they're being ignored and a new "normal" is being forced upon them without their consent."

That's mostly true, the exception being that most of them have been consenting to that "normal" by voting Republican for the past two generations. See my post above. They have brought it on themselves. Thomas Frank thoroughly documented that in his book _Whats the Matter with Kansas?_. They may be spared further degradation on this round by Trump's total incompetence, unless the swamp rat Foreclosure King Mnuchin intervenes.

"Of course, it doesn't help when the DNC handpicked the most divisive candidate in history."

Sorry. Wrong. The most divisive candidate in history was Abraham Lincoln, who was nominated by the Republicans.


11 people like this
Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 14, 2017 at 9:48 pm

"... public officials. Their job is not to cater to/prioritize/grant amnesty ans an obvious future of public benefits, citizenship and voting to random persons, however nice OR criminal, who are from other countries."

So you disagree with the Reagan Amnesty of 1986.

Does this "foreign countries" callout include Ireland, or just the usual--Mexico?


8 people like this
Posted by john_alderman
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 14, 2017 at 10:31 pm

john_alderman is a registered user.

@ Curmudgeon - How about we deport all illegal aliens, including the dreaded Irish. Because it is in the name, right? "Illegal". Would you be crying for some American who got deported from Switzerland after sneaking in?


24 people like this
Posted by Sanctimonious City
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 14, 2017 at 11:07 pm

@Poster

Nobody had even heard of the alt-right until the fake media made them up. In any good fairy tail, there needs to be an antagonist. The Russia ruse did not work out so well so the leftist instigators needed something different for their Brown Shirts that wear black masks to rally around.

It is nice to see the misnamed AntiFa (which should really be called ProFa) has matured so much since the original WTO, G7 and Occupy protests.

[Portion removed.]

As for Trump, I think most of his followers have been impressed with how well he has followed through on his campaign promises up until now. His base knows he is fighting both the Democrat and Republican ruling elites that similarly embrace the same traitorous, globalist, open border policies.

So only time will tell if he can deliver the deals and whether he will be known to his supporters as Honest Don or Benedict Donald.


8 people like this
Posted by @Sanctimonious Poster
a resident of Mountain View
on Sep 14, 2017 at 11:31 pm

"Nobody had even heard of the alt-right until the fake media made them up."

Uhhhh...no. Actually, it WAS the alt-right that calls itself the alt-right.

"The Russia ruse did not work out so well so the leftist instigators needed something different for their Brown Shirts that wear black masks to rally around."

Nice bit of fiction there, chap. But that's all it is -- fiction.

"As for Trump, I think most of his followers have been impressed with how well he has followed through on his campaign promises up until now. His base knows he is fighting both the Democrat and Republican ruling elites that similarly embrace the same traitorous, globalist, open border policies."

Holding the support of 35% of the electorate isn't exactly something to brag about. Then again, it's only InfoWars-addicted types such as yourself that would be loyal to a total failure that 45 has shown himself to be.


4 people like this
Posted by Sanctimonious City
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 14, 2017 at 11:55 pm

[Post removed.]


Like this comment
Posted by @Sanctimonious Poster
a resident of Mountain View
on Sep 15, 2017 at 12:15 am

[Post removed.]


17 people like this
Posted by Resident
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 15, 2017 at 6:19 am

So much rancor from the hateful left. Driving around Palo Alto I see all these political signs like you're only allowed to have one opinion around here.

The lack of thought diversity makes me want to puke. People can't accept DJT for who he is and endlessly indulge in obsessive hatred and derision towards the man. The torrent of hate and misinformation is coming from the extreme, social media-addicted LEFT. But think about it... he 's definitely better than 'ole Dubya!
Enough politics! We are one nation. We need to UNITE.


6 people like this
Posted by 38 year resident
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Sep 15, 2017 at 11:38 am

38 year resident is a registered user.

It's not too difficult to understand the voters who make up the so called "Trump's America." Just pick up a copy of Hillary Clinton's "What Happened." Look at the cover and the answer is in bold.....it reads Hillary Rodham Clinton.


6 people like this
Posted by Gale Johnson
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Sep 15, 2017 at 1:41 pm

Gale Johnson is a registered user.

Joe has done a good job as County Supervisor and certainly in looking out for the best interests of Palo Alto in that capacity. I do wonder about his motivation for doing this. Intellectual curiosity? Career advancement to a higher (national) level? I have no doubt that he is qualified and would do very well.

As far as promoting understanding and healing? In this community? Fuggedaboutit!! I don't plan to go to the event but it would be interesting if the attendees were polled. How many registered Republicans? Democrats? Independents? Other? How many voted for Trump? Hillary? Bernie? Others?

If it turns out to be a defacto Democratic campaign rally then it could be a violation of the use of the City Council Chambers.

Palo Alto is in the center of the far left liberal universe and light years away from the areas and the experiences and thinking of the people that he talked to. So, what will be the outcome of the meeting? Informational? Or a call to action to retake the White House and Congress and a formula for doing it?


19 people like this
Posted by MyOpinion
a resident of Community Center
on Sep 15, 2017 at 3:57 pm

MyOpinion is a registered user.

Trump is unfit morally, ethically and intellectually. There are plenty of experienced capable conservatives in the USA. Why pick a reality TV performer with dubious business deals, no governement experience, no finesse, five deferments and what appears to be the attention span of a flea?


15 people like this
Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 15, 2017 at 5:30 pm

Curmudgeon is a registered user.

"As for Trump, I think most of his followers have been impressed with how well he has followed through on his campaign promises up until now."

Yup. Trump got that 'ol Obamacare repealed right on the day after he got inaugurated, just like he like promised. He's a-building that fantastic beautiful border wall, ahead of schedule and totally paid for by Mexico. Got that new tax plan all wrapped up too. And no playing footsies with the likes of Nancy Pelosi.


"Would you be crying for some American who got deported from Switzerland after sneaking in?"

No crying from here. I leave the sniveling to the Trump Base, which is much better at it from lots of practice.


"Palo Alto is in the center of the far left liberal universe and light years away from the areas and the experiences and thinking of the people that he talked to."

Palo Alto is also far more successful socially and economically than those right-thinking areas. Take a clue.


8 people like this
Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 15, 2017 at 8:48 pm

Curmudgeon is a registered user.

"Why pick a reality TV performer with dubious business deals, no governement experience, no finesse, five [draft] deferments ... ?

In short, the almost perfect candidate for the Republican Base. Except for that draft deferment business. It makes him out like one of those hippies who would diss a war hero like John McCain because he spent much of the war in an enemy prison.

Naaah. No Republican would vote for anybody who did that.


5 people like this
Posted by MyOpinion
a resident of Community Center
on Sep 15, 2017 at 9:55 pm

MyOpinion is a registered user.

It's just so embarrassing having an ignoramus for POTUS,. I mean, come on, the leader of the free world? He has done and said so many crude and ignorant things in the past year, yet everyone give him a pass? WHY? Aside from all that why isn't there an upper age limit for POTUS candidates? You have to be at least 35, but why not 65 as an upper age limit? To guarantee that POTUS is fit and of sound mind, it does not seem unreasonable to establish an upper age limit (same for SCOTUS).When I look for a new doctor I look for one in their late 40's, 20 years experience, 20 years to go. Same should apply to POTUS.


15 people like this
Posted by Sanctimonious City
a resident of Barron Park
on Sep 15, 2017 at 11:39 pm

Sanctimonious City is a registered user.

Not surprisingly, the swamp dwellers in DC during the Civil War reacted the same way about U.S. Grant. He was uncouth and not from the proper background, education or social class. His uniform was always shabby and he spent too much time relating to his men.

Not unlike the current scoff and banter coming from the Democrats, the Media and Hollywood on Trump, Lincoln heard a constant chorus from the elites of his time to remove him from command. Famously, he responded "I can’t spare this man; he fights."

The middle class has been decimated over the last 30 years by the Liberal Progressive policies of globalization, open borders, identity politics and unfair financial regulations which have enriched a new class of international ruling elites.

Thus, Trump supporters will continue to back him as long as he fights.


8 people like this
Posted by resident3
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 16, 2017 at 1:50 am

resident3 is a registered user.

Curmedgeon,

Some statistics about how much more "successful socially and economically than those right-thinking areas"

Web Link

"The Times’ article on the Census Bureau report on income levels was informative but misleading in regard to the percentage of people living in poverty, especially in California. (“American households finally earn more than they did in 1999,” Sept. 12)

Under that official measure, 20.4% of Californians live in poverty, the highest percentage of any state in the country. That percentage also is virtually unchanged since 2013. Nationwide, 14.7% of people live in poverty under this measure.

Reporting on the more accurate Supplemental Poverty Measure is crucial because the lack of public awareness about the human and fiscal crisis of poverty in California is a major reason that comprehensive, sustained actions have not been taken to reduce it."


8 people like this
Posted by chose_a_name
a resident of another community
on Sep 16, 2017 at 9:25 am

chose_a_name is a registered user.

Joe Simitian traveled far away to find Trump voters. Yet according to the article twelve percent of our local population are members of that cohort.

Are Trump supporters some kind of zoo animal? No, they live here among you. I think, to expedite things, we should identify those Trump supporters, perhaps with a small tattoo that cannot be covered up when the person is in public. This way all can be aware and chose, as Mr. Simitian, to engage with these creatures to understand them in their natural habitat. Or one could walk away, perhaps move across the street, so no contact is made with them.

This is a continuation of identity politics: illegal immigrants are a desired class, the Trump voters undesirable. Vulnerable people good, Trump voters bad (and never think that perhaps Trump supporters might be vulnerable in some way, perhaps overwhelmed by taxes and trying to survive economically in this area.) But why try to represent them? They are only 12%, that's not much.


Instead, travel to other states and talk to these strange animals, get to know them, then come back to the Bay Area where one can educate the masses on the attitudes and character of the Trump voter. And do this from an very high altitude. After all, they are not one of us.


8 people like this
Posted by PROUD TRUMP SUPPORTER
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Sep 16, 2017 at 9:56 am

PROUD TRUMP SUPPORTER is a registered user.

Yeah we should all be forced to get tattoos on our foreheads. The cultural phenomenon of virtue signaling is that it always needs an "other" and a target that represents "amorality" to compare themselves to. Such is the contradictory nature of the extreme, blinding self-righteousness that afflicts the Left. We've seen so many examples of this throughout history.

Actually, I like the power of anonymity and the stealth of the Silent Majority. Let the vocal extreme pious liberals fall into a sense of security again. They'll rally behind whoever the DNC coughs up come 2020, point to some polls, and consider it a foregone conclusion that Trump will not win a second term.

Then they'll be shocked again come Election Day. They and the mainstream media have not changed their strategy at all (just look at MyOpinion's and Curmudgeon's posts), so should they except different results?


2 people like this
Posted by MyOpinion
a resident of Community Center
on Sep 16, 2017 at 10:29 am

MyOpinion is a registered user.

@Proud Trump supporter, feel better now?


6 people like this
Posted by PROUD TRUMP SUPPORTER
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Sep 16, 2017 at 10:33 am

PROUD TRUMP SUPPORTER is a registered user.

@MyOpinion

A little substance in your posts, perhaps?


8 people like this
Posted by Gale Johnson
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Sep 16, 2017 at 1:32 pm

Gale Johnson is a registered user.

@chose_a_name

Yes, Simitian could have just stayed here in his own territory and asked questions of the 12% Trump voters, but their answers and the reasons for voting for Trump, I'm sure, would have been much different than those of the people he interviewed on his tour to those three states. And what he was probing for was to find out why they had switched so dramatically from how they voted in previous elections. It was a case of registered Democrats voting for Trump. How many registered Democrats in Palo Alto do you think voted for Trump? I would hazard to guess...NONE. Our problems, and we have many, don't resemble any that the folks he interviewed have. I doubt if traffic congestion and parking is a problem for them. Just the basics of survival, food, clothing, and shelter, is their main concern.

And his purpose was obviously to find out how and why the political winds had shifted on a national level. It had nothing to do with Palo Alto or Santa Clara County issues directly or how the people he interviewed could have any influence on our local issues. They don't directly other than the fact Trump won and that could affect things at a state and local level here, through policies. That's the only link I can see. But Obama's policies and executive orders affected and upset many conservatives in their states.

It was purely Simitian's personal survey to try and find out how/why Hillary lost, and to help the Democratic cause in the future from his findings.

But that brings us back to what we are led to believe about our local elected officials, both city and county. Non-political right? Yes, wink wink, of course, but two of our new council members changed party affiliation before the election, thus getting support, including financial support, from the Democratic Party. So, even though political party affiliation isn't tied to their names on ballots, it could, and maybe should be.

I don't want to make a big stink about it, but the fact the meeting about his personal survey dealing with national politics is being held at City Hall in City Council Chambers (where only non-political and local issue discussions take place...wink wink), gives me pause. I'll give him slack on this one though.

What is the expectation coming out of this meeting? Better understanding and healing is a myth in this town! The Democrats know they have total control, gloat on that fact, and they won't bend or lend an ear to anything presented from the other side. It will be a good first step though, for Simitian to advance his political future. And that's good because he's a good man and deserves a chance for a future at the national level.

About the sponsors: Well, I'm very familiar with AAUW. My wife, Garnet, was an active member, and really enjoyed it and all the activities, fun and educational, that they offered. But there was always a little discomfort when we went to events as registered Republicans...dinners, parties, wine tasting, etc. It always devolved into political discussions and negative...sometimes hateful...comments about Republicans in any and all levels of government. Garnet, god bless her sole, didn't get upset about it. She let it go, just like water off a duck's back, but it bothered me. I was very quiet at those times, and didn't raise my opposing position, because I didn't want to spoil our time at a party. Garnet passed away 3 years ago, so now is my time to speak out. The party's over!




8 people like this
Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 16, 2017 at 4:19 pm

Curmudgeon is a registered user.

"Not surprisingly, the swamp dwellers in DC during the Civil War reacted the same way about U.S. Grant. He was uncouth and not from the proper background, education or social class. His uniform was always shabby and he spent too much time relating to his men."

Not surprisingly, considering your linkage of Grant with Trump, Grant was one of our least competent presidents and his administration was legendarily corrupt.

However, unlike Trump, Grant served in the military. He was educated at West Point, BTW. Unlike Grant's uniform, Trump's tailored suits always look tailor-fresh, in the approved swamp dweller style.


"Curmedgeon[sic],

Some statistics about how much more "successful socially and economically than those right-thinking areas ... 20.4% of Californians live in poverty, the highest percentage of any state in the country."

A moderately careful reading of my posting would tell one my comment on economic/social success applied to Palo Alto, not the whole state. But, since you've expressed interest: California is burdened with large Red areas inland which, not coincidentally, are much less economically successful than its Blue enclaves on the coast. Tim Draper's famous scheme to split California into six states would create at least three more Mississippis that require life support from Washington.


"They and the mainstream media have not changed their strategy at all (just look at MyOpinion's and Curmudgeon's posts), so should they except different results?"

Why not? Clinton won the peoples' vote by 3 million. A very minor shift in the distribution of those votes is all that's needed to align the electoral college with the electorate. Keep in mind that Republicans won the peoples' vote in only 1 of the last 7 presidential elections.


3 people like this
Posted by resident3
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 16, 2017 at 4:41 pm

resident3 is a registered user.

Curmudgeon,

Before you get too excited about bubble economic/social success theories, consider Venezuela, Maduro shares your bluer ideology.

Red and blue seem all mixed up.




7 people like this
Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 16, 2017 at 4:47 pm

Curmudgeon is a registered user.

"It always devolved into political discussions and negative...sometimes hateful...comments about Republicans in any and all levels of government."

Perhaps the Republican you thought you were had been left behind by the Republican Party of the Southern Strategy that your partymates saw. The Party of Reagan was not the Party of Lincoln, who had become an embarrassment to the Right, and the current Party of Trump is soulmate to the Dixiecrats of 1948.

Multiple confirmed Lincoln Republicans have ditched the no-longer-grand ol' party. Former Congressman Paul McCloskey, who I voted for many times, is a notable example.


4 people like this
Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 16, 2017 at 4:54 pm

Curmudgeon is a registered user.

"Before you get too excited about bubble economic/social success theories, consider Venezuela, Maduro shares your bluer ideology."

Your logic, if any, escapes me. Maduro, having failed at governance, is rapidly becoming the dictator Trump wishes he could be. Didn't Trump recently congratulate him on winning a fraudulent vote to grant him absolute power?

But what's Venezuela got to do with this? Didn't Trump himself tell you America First? Why are you defying Trump?


Like this comment
Posted by resident3
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 16, 2017 at 5:21 pm

resident3 is a registered user.

Curmudgeon,

You are incorrect, Trump has sanctioned Maduro.

Failing at governance and leadership leads to all sort of bad. Maduro is above all a control freak. now asking his people to eat rabbits. Trump has dinner with Chuck and Nancy, the unknown for both red and blue.







2 people like this
Posted by MyOpinion
a resident of Community Center
on Sep 16, 2017 at 5:30 pm

MyOpinion is a registered user.

@Proud Trump Supporter... Substance does not seem to be admired these days, so why bother? In any case, I am glad I was on the coast today, these reader comments are a sinkhole of time, there is not point to it (and not end to it). There now, I feel better.


4 people like this
Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 16, 2017 at 6:09 pm

Curmudgeon is a registered user.

"You are incorrect, Trump has sanctioned Maduro."

Fine. I've never accused Trump of consistency.


"Maduro is above all a control freak. now asking his people to eat rabbits."

Rabbits can be delicious if properly prepared. They are a delicacy at some high end eateries.

But what's that got to do with Trump and America?


4 people like this
Posted by Gale Johnson
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Sep 18, 2017 at 8:41 am

Gale Johnson is a registered user.

Curmudgeon wins! 10 posts! He just wears us all down.


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