News

Man, 23, killed on train tracks in Palo Alto

Southbound train strikes, kills pedestrian near Churchill crossing

A 23-year-old man was struck and killed by a train at about 8:30 p.m. Thursday (July 7) near the Churchill Avenue crossing in Palo Alto, according to the San Mateo County Transit Police.

He was identified Friday by the Santa Clara County Coroner's Office as Clayton Carlson, a Palo Alto resident. Carlson graduated from Palo Alto High School in 2006.

The victim's distraught mother was seen walking down Churchill towards El Camino Real Thursday night when she was assisted by a police officer and several other people.

Train No. 190, a local train that stopped at all stations, was traveling south when it struck Carlson about 1/2 mile north of Churchill, Caltrain spokesperson Christine Dunn stated in a press release.

The 175 passengers from train No. 190 were transferred to another southbound train.

Mike Gowan of Mountain View said he was on train No. 190.

"It's quite sad," he posted on Twitter as @mikegee.

David Triolo, chief of protective services for the Transit Police, spoke to reporters gathered along Alma Street.

"These are all tragedies," he said, "and we take very seriously safety education."

This is the tenth fatality on the Caltrain tracks in 2011, Dunn said.

Churchill at El Camino Real was blocked off to traffic after the incident.

Caltrain uses a multifaceted approach to address safety issues, Dunn said: engineering, education and enforcement.

Caltrain has posted signs on its right-of-way announcing that any person who is in an emotional crisis can find help by calling a hotline: 650-579-0355.

Comments

Like this comment
Posted by D Rail
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 7, 2011 at 11:43 pm

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


Like this comment
Posted by Rail D
a resident of Gunn High School
on Jul 8, 2011 at 12:01 am

Dear D Rail.
To say that the train is the biggest killer transportation corridor in the nation is baseless. People die in car accidents everyday; you just don't hear about them. Highways are actually the "highest killer transportation corridor" (as of a report in 2010), so does that mean we should start boycotting those?

The train is actually very useful for people who need to get to a location whilst not dealing with traffic. That's why it's there. While you seem to not need to use the train, do keep in mind that that's how a lot of people get to work every day.

Also, getting rid of the train won't stop suicides. Nor will it stop accidents. Accidents happen all the time (mostly due to drunk drivers, but that's another story) and if someone really wanted to take his/her life, he/she will try to find a way. That's why the community is taking steps to help those who are in that kind of situation.


Like this comment
Posted by Kevin
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 8, 2011 at 12:01 am

A few things:

1) First of all, Caltrain is *not* high-speed rail. Shinkansen, TGV, ICE, and the like, *those* are high-speed rail. (With no grade crossings, by the way.)

2) Palo Alto and many other Peninsula communities exist *because* of the railroad now called Caltrain. Which has been in place since 1863-64.

3) It's a "killer" only because others have made it so by their actions. By this logic, the Golden Gate Bridge needs to be torn down. Why, it's the biggest killer bridge in history! Boycott it!

(sarcasm off)

Seriously: Think about the effect these sorts of incidents have on the engineers and conductors who are doing nothing more than trying to earn a living, or the passengers who are doing nothing more than trying to get somewhere. They have been unwilling participants in someone else's suicide. If it's otherwise, well, it doesn't take much to avoid being hit. Stay clear of the tracks when you see a train coming, and you're good.

4) Yeah, I'm going to go there: The media needs to quit reporting Caltrain suicides. Only encourages copycats. Notice that Golden Gate Bridge suicides almost never make the news anymore.


Like this comment
Posted by Compassion
a resident of Professorville
on Jul 8, 2011 at 12:06 am

D Rail: That was a very callous and inappropriate post.

Please express condolence to the family, and work to maintain the community atmosphere that Palo Alto so highly cherishes.

Residents of Palo Alto: please, please, please be vigilant when it comes to mental health, if anything seems odd with someone's behavior, take note and take ACTION, the only solution to this problem is community!


Like this comment
Posted by Concerned Family
a resident of Gunn High School
on Jul 8, 2011 at 12:33 am

Tragic news tonight out of Palo Alto - a family lost their loved one.

We are sending them prayers and much love - May the community hold them close, during this time of grief, despair, healing, pain and sorrow.


Like this comment
Posted by Mike
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Jul 8, 2011 at 12:54 am

dear family, im deeply sorry to hear about what happend my thoughts and prayers are with you guys. stay strong.


Like this comment
Posted by Get Real; don't blame the trains
a resident of Stanford
on Jul 8, 2011 at 1:41 am

@D Rail: Riding public transportation is green. If there were no trains, people can easily jump off an overpass onto highway 101. There have been train suicides in other cities too - a 63-year old man in Mtn. View just last week.


Like this comment
Posted by Shut-It-Down
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 8, 2011 at 7:07 am

> 2) Palo Alto and many other Peninsula communities exist *because*
> of the railroad now called Caltrain. Which has been in place
> since 1863-64.

Palo Alto "exists" because of many reasons .. the least of which can be attributed to Caltrain (or its predecessors). However, to the extent that Palo Alto depended on a railroad, that might have been true a very, very, long time ago, when cows, and trees were needed to bolster the population count. Today, very few Palo Altans actually use this massively ineffective and financially disastrous mode of transportation.

And yes, Caltrain's 77-miles sees about the highest casualty count for any 77-mile segment of railroad in the US.


Like this comment
Posted by aMom
a resident of Ventura
on Jul 8, 2011 at 7:48 am

What is wrong with the PA Weekly?? Haven't you learned that reporting like this is exactly what is NOT needed in this situation? Shame on you!!


Like this comment
Posted by Another Mom
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Jul 8, 2011 at 8:06 am

I completely agree with aMom.

If this MUST be reported at all, please leave out the details of the distraught and grieving mother. That is none of anyone's business and makes you look like a sordid tabloid.

In addition, it is exactly the type of information that could have the wrong effect on a troubled young person.

This has been pointed out many times over the last few years.

What on Earth are you thinking?


Like this comment
Posted by Misha
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 8, 2011 at 8:28 am

Our hearts go out to the poor man and his devastated family.

In response to the officer's statement that it is difficult to save someone trying to take their life, is it any more difficult than trying to stop someone from harming another person?

I appreciate the officer recognized we must try pur best to save them, regardless of the challenges. We need to ensure our own mentality does not unintentionally fall into a hopeless, helpless state. I think of the poor man in Alameda who drowned while a crowd including emergency personnel stood and watched. I have no doubt that if the man had been doing some risky stunt and fallen by accident into the water, there would have been no hesitation to jump in and save him. Why treat a mentally or emotionally troubled person any less?

In addition to train safety where the safety net is measured in minutes if not seconds, we must be educated, aware, vigilant, and brave to watch out for each other and get the help needed before someone reaches the tracks. This is not a statement about this poor man and his family who like many of the other families that have also lost loved ones to suicide, may be shocked nd surprised by what has happened.

Condolences.


Like this comment
Posted by Daily Post got it right
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 8, 2011 at 9:13 am

Weekly...please. Guidelines for reporting are critical to stopping this.

Only the Daily Post got it right - and to a tee - page 42, Police blotter. Zero pictures, just the basics. Everything else is absolutely unnecessary - quotes, etc. - and known to put the vulnerable at risk.

Please.


Like this comment
Posted by concerned
a resident of Southgate
on Jul 8, 2011 at 9:38 am

My heart goes out to the family and God bless them. I was shocked to read that the Weekly reported that quote from the woman. That was incredibly irresponsible, sensational and exploitative. That's not local "journalism" that I would support under any circumstances.


Like this comment
Posted by Kevin
a resident of another community
on Jul 8, 2011 at 9:38 am

Shut-It-Down:

I'm sorry, but yes, Palo Alto owes its existence to railroading. First because of the construction of the San Francisco & San Jose Railroad (later Southern Pacific, now Caltrain), and later the construction of Stanford University, financed with Leland Stanford's ... wait for it ... railroad fortune.

As to this statement: "Today, very few Palo Altans actually use this massively ineffective and financially disastrous mode of transportation."

For starters, here's Caltrain's latest ridership presentation: Web Link

Keep in mind, too, it's not just Palo Altans using Caltrain; you also have people from elsewhere coming to town for work, school or pleasure. Shall we force them all onto the road?


Like this comment
Posted by D Rail
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 8, 2011 at 9:43 am

"shut it down" has it right! We're paying some guy over $400,000 a year to run something that losses like $30mm to $50mm a year. It's not in PA's interest to have high speed rail - yes, high speed! - it travels' 2X faster than cars on El Camino. CA has finanical problems and this is a costly and deadly benefit that we can do with out. Maybe the media should quit reporting gun deaths too becuase that might create copy cats! Brilliant logic!


Like this comment
Posted by One Who Cares
a resident of Green Acres
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:00 am

When a person commits suicide it is a sad event that has our community feeling unsettled once again. Should we act like it has not happened? I think not. Believe me the word is out via media faster than you can blink and having no news whatsoever raises tension till something is known because we are worrying if once again it is one of our children.

This tension has resulted in some change in attitude and service for mental health increasing in our community. I feel strongly that much more help should be forthcoming, especially for young people, the under served in Palo Alto. Do you know that not ONE bed is being provided for mental health in the new Children's hospital getting ready for construction?

If we do not attend to mental health in the young as well as helping to destigmatize this illness we will not decrease suicide. Let's go forth with problem solving!


Like this comment
Posted by Keep Reporting
a resident of Professorville
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:05 am

This is news. This is the function of a localized media. To inform it's citizens, to bring to light important issues that deeply affect the area being covered. To stop reporting these deaths would be tantamount to denial. And though few would admit it, I think that's what some people want. To deny that this is happening in our community. God forbid Palo Alto becomes known nationally (see: Dr. Phil episode) as a place where young people frequently deal with major depression. Denial is a part of greif, but it's there to help us get to acceptance.
There's something in the water. As a former depressed, disillusioned young Palo Altoan myself. I can say with confidence that the high pressure, high expectations environment in which kids grow up in can be like a mental vice, slowly but surely squeezing out hope and self-worth if one does not fit the mold of what we're told we should be.
That may not be the case with this young man, but not enough has been done to honestly address the situation. Take a long look in the mirror, PA.


Like this comment
Posted by Keep Reporting
a resident of Professorville
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:10 am

..and also. I hope the Weekly doesn't bow to pressure and stop doing their job correctly. Hopefully they can put someone on the case to do some real investigative work (you know, the hard kind) to make connections and maybe come up with some answers.
This doesn't happen because people read about it in the news. It happens because people are determined to end their life and the train is an easy, accessible, sure thing to end a life. Sorry if this flusters you over your morning coffee and just, gee, gosh I'd really like not to have to read about these sad things. This is happening, and it will continue to happen whether the weekly reports on it or not


Like this comment
Posted by Ike
a resident of another community
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:12 am

I agree that hearing reports of train suicides may encourage others to do he same, but as a passenger of last night's train, I believe I deserve the right to know what happened.

To the victim's family, I would like to say that I am extremely sorry for what happened


Like this comment
Posted by Honky Chateau
a resident of St. Claire Gardens
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:18 am

Web Link

It's a real thing; students from Gunn have talked about it and admitted that this strange (and nonsensical thought) has crossed some minds.
Look at the Elton John song with the chorus that goes:
Yeah I'm gonna kill myself
Get a little headline news
I'd like to see what the papers say
On the state of teenage blues

I also support keeping these news reports brief. Those that knew the victim well enough will find out in other ways (social media, etc). We don't need the newspaper giving us a play by play that, while not intentionally, serves as just another human interest story.


Like this comment
Posted by Honky Chateau
a resident of St. Claire Gardens
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:23 am

FYI the above web link will bring you to a Wikipedia page detailing the phenomenon that is copycat suicide. It begins,

"A copycat suicide is defined as an emulation of another suicide that the person attempting suicide knows about either from local knowledge or due to accounts or depictions of the original suicide on television and in other media."


Like this comment
Posted by Enough!
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:26 am

You people never cease to amaze me. Writing about suicide by train doesn't PREVENT suicide by train. I don't see the Weekly idealizing the spot, they simply reported the story as it happened.

'Shutting down' the train is a ridiculous idea. Remember, the train does not roam about Palo Alto mowing down otherwise emotionally healthy people in it's path.

I am glad they reported what the mother said, maybe that, the heartbreak of a loved one, if nothing else, will stick in the mind of the next person contemplating such a final act. If his mom was there, and had tried to stop the act, she is living with a double burden on her heart.


Like this comment
Posted by Shut-It-Down
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:52 am

> later the construction of Stanford University, financed with
> Leland Stanford's ... wait for it ... railroad fortune.

That's a real stretch .. although technically true. It's unlikely that Stanford picked this particular location because it had a railroad connection nearby (particularly since he could have built a connection if that were an issue for him). Typical of the kind of intellectual garbage that people have to sling up on the wall to justify this financial black hole (Caltrain).

As to the ridership numbers, these numbers do not actually track unique people, nor do they track the home-of-residence of the small number of riders (about 19,000) who use this taxpayer-subsidized folly. The ridership numbers tend to suggest that about 55% of the Caltrain traffic originates in San Jose, and San Francisco. The other 45% originates up and down the line. Palo Alto probably sees fewer than 2000 unique people (who reside in Palo Alto) actually originating a trip at one of the two Palo Alto stations. On the weekends, the ridership drops to about 40% (at best) of weekday traffic.

This 19,000 unique (weekday) commuters needs to be seen in terms of a service area of over 3M people who live on the Peninsula, and over 6.5M people living in the San Francisco Bay Area--all of whom (adults, anyway) might find themselves needing transportation to one of the Peninsula cities for work, or business. Most of these people pay for their own transportation, rather than demanding significant subsidy for the $4,000 to $6,000 it costs to provide rail transport.





Like this comment
Posted by Concerned Retiree
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:57 am

For some people, death is a welcome release. Suicide by train is not "a cry for help" but a person's decision to end the unbearable pain which has overtaken their life.
At 23, this person was old enough to make up his own mind, without the encumbrances of a society or a religion passing judgement on that decision.

As we look at our diminishing resources, the high cost of medical care, and the amount of money which is spent on individuals such as premies and those whose minds and bodies are too weak to bring them anything but pain in their daily lives, we must consider allowing some people to end their own unbearable suffering -- even if that viewpoint is very different from our own.


Like this comment
Posted by KP
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Jul 8, 2011 at 11:00 am

So much for all the money put into our "new train crossings"...how well did it work out for ya Palo Alto? People need to realize that it isn't the trains fault and get real.
You can't stop someone hell bent on committing suicide. It is a selfish act committed by a person in need of help. What can you do.


Like this comment
Posted by wait a minute
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 8, 2011 at 11:07 am

excuse me,
"most of these people pay for their own transportation...." yes they use taxpayer supported roads for their autos. It you take the 19000 people everyday and add 19000 more cars to 101 and 280 to keep the same delays both roads would need at least one more lane....of taxpayer built highway.


Like this comment
Posted by student
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 8, 2011 at 11:07 am

I would like to raise the issue of the yellow gates that were installed this past year on every crossing. It seems to me that they are more a hazard than a benefit. I don't think that the gates will be able to stop those who have decided to take their lives on the tracks. The dangerous part about them in my opinion is i picture an elderly man or woman with a walker, who cant see particularly well, moving very slowly and getting stuck between the gates. I know that there is an "Emergency Exit" door, but im not sure how well they would be about to open that. I have never been through the gates myself, so perhaps it is easier than I assume. i appreciate the city trying to help with these incidents, but i do not feel the gates are effective, and not only do they look strange and out of place, but seem to have some potential draw backs which may outweigh the benefits.
I feel as though they should be removed.
other more educated opinions on the matter are welcome, I would not mind someone explaining to me the necessity for them.

Thank you.


Like this comment
Posted by A mother
a resident of Crescent Park
on Jul 8, 2011 at 11:12 am

My heart goes out to the mother of the young man who died. I can't say I feel your pain, but I can only imagine the pain you must feel. I am holding your hand as you weep and my hope is that all your loved ones support you in this very difficult time in your life.


Like this comment
Posted by Shut it Down????
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Jul 8, 2011 at 11:26 am

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


Like this comment
Posted by JMidtownMom
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 8, 2011 at 11:29 am

Last night I drove by when the police and Caltrans trucks cordoned off the Churchill intersection. My immediate thought was, "Oh no, please don't let it be another one." my heart goes out to the family, especially his mother, the bond that never breaks. It's such a sudden grief that, like the waves, comes hard and fast, eventually dampens down, but never really goes away. My arms reach out to you to comfort and hold you. I've been throughout the same thing.

As i read the comments i have random thoughts: In times like these, knee jerk solutions don't mean a thing. A life is gone. Some people grieve through anger, and expressing themselves without sympathizing with the family is just their callous way of expressing their grief. I hope more Readers are in sympathy than in antagonism.

You have a shoulder to cry or lean on - it is mine.


Like this comment
Posted by Sally
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 8, 2011 at 11:44 am

My thoughts and prayers go to the Carlson family.


Student " i appreciate the city trying to help with these incidents, but i do not feel the gates are effective, and not only do they look strange and out of place, but seem to have some potential draw backs which may outweigh the benefits."

The new gates are a $6 million dollar project by the VTA in Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, and Mountain View. They are not a City of Palo Alto project. Other's have questioned their effectiveness and whether on not they contributed to the recent death of the older woman driver. All are reasonable questions, but you can't blame Palo Alto.

Web Link
Caltrain Crossings set for safety improvements


Like this comment
Posted by Enough!
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Jul 8, 2011 at 11:46 am

I see people commenting about obtaining mental health care. In the North end of this county, THERE IS NO MENTAL HEALTH CARE available unless you have insurance or can pay cash. Even sliding scale is costly. If you are under 18, you can get some help through programs at the schools. Once you are an adult, and if you don't have the financial resources, you are on your own. A few years ago, when I was a witness to suicide by train, I was told that there would be some mental help available if needed to get over the shock. I diligently pursued the avenue presented to me, as well as a few others, right on down to PGSP, and was either never had my calls returned, or was told 'no' outright. Everytime one of these deaths happen, I get serious PTSD...and all I can do is, get over it.


Like this comment
Posted by robit noops
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Jul 8, 2011 at 1:21 pm

Thank you for reporting the facts on this incident. I live 2 blocks from and could hear commotion, sirens, and slow moving trains. If you are in the "community" you know something happened so better to report it than pretend it doesn't happen.

Condolences to the family.


Like this comment
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 8, 2011 at 4:27 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

An attachment to the front of all locomotives could greatly reduce the certainty of suicide, thus making train suicide less attractive. A 3 foot deep block of Styrofoam would entrap and hold anyone on the tracks until the train could be stopped.


Like this comment
Posted by Paly Alum
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 8, 2011 at 9:12 pm

Paly Alum is a registered user.

Due to my dysfunctional family which included my dad's verbal abuse, control, and favoritism, I was suicidal in high school. In anger, my dad told me to go kill myself. I was a good kid and never got into trouble. In fact, I was so depressed that I did not say much. The only "trouble" with me was that I earned "only" a 3.4 GPA in school because I didn't like studying. Any "A"s were unacknowledged by my father although my mom complimented me. But I needed the acknowledgement from my father, which I never got. To him, I could do nothing right. It was my mom who begged me to not kill myself that saved me from suicide.

My dad is dead now and I don't care. Dads, you should realize how much your words affect your daughters. I was not a slut because I had self-control and was not a partier but all the sluts I know are not close to their fathers. Daughters need respect from their fathers or they will find other men to comfort them. Swallow your pride and talk to your daughter; say something nice to her. Remember her as a baby and remember she still needs love and nurturing even if she is self-sufficient. Children always want approval from their parents even when they are adults.

To all who say suicide is "selfish", STOP SAYING THAT. It angers the suicidal more. Suicidals are in so much pain that they do not care if they bring pain to others.

Suicidals: life changes and things won't always stay the same. Remember that. We live in the best country in the world, full of opportunities. Take advantage of the opportunities. Stay around people. If you are still in high school, remember there is a better life after you leave high school. Most people hated high school, even those who seem like they had everything (I've reunited with those via Facebook and have heard lots of those stories). There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Just hang in there or you'll miss it all.


Like this comment
Posted by bru
a resident of Crescent Park
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:29 pm

bru is a registered user.

It is really sad to always see such vitriol and bickering when this tragedy happens. Everyone has strong feelings about this, and probably a lot of regret that someone among us decided to end their life.

Last thing I just read "Paly Alum, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood"'s comment and it just seems so meaningless and pointless for parents to treat their children in such a way. People have a hard time relating to this I think. Not because their lives or parents are that much better, they are lucky if they are, but because we move through life so fast and often without reflection that we lose touch with the what people can experience and sympathy with them. In many cases people who need the most attention and sympathy get removed and "hard" and difficult to bridge that gap.

I agree with the folks who mindlessly say suicide is selfish. I think what is selfish is that these people are ignored while they are in such pain that they only way they have to end it in their minds is to end their lives. The human being is designed to want to live in every way, it takes an extraordinary amount to push someone to break that programming.

I think those who have come to terms with the callous way our society has evolved want to discredit and dismiss others because their "imagined" success and survival is a source of pride and superiority ... that is what seems selfish to me.


Like this comment
Posted by bru
a resident of Crescent Park
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:31 pm

bru is a registered user.

> I agree with the folks who mindlessly say suicide is selfish

I meant to say disagree ... thus the modifier "mindlessly", sorry.


Like this comment
Posted by blinc62
a resident of East Palo Alto
on Jul 9, 2011 at 12:21 am

blinc62 is a registered user.

Blame it on Ronald Reagan; he's the one that shut down just about all the mental hospitals in California when he was governor.


Like this comment
Posted by hcc2009
a resident of Barron Park
on Jul 9, 2011 at 6:54 am

hcc2009 is a registered user.

Thank you, Paly Alum, your insightful words. Palo Alto is a collection of rapacious over-achievers who came here from other places to reach this pinnacle of wonderfulness called Stanford University or Facebook or .... name your favorite local bastion of over-achieverment.

Many of these people grew up elsewhere and were "big fish" in the local "small pond". And now some of them expect their children to be big fish too. But the problem is, this pond is already full to the brim with big fish.

I'll never forget the incredible professionalism and skill I witnessed when attending a performance by the Gunn Jazz Band, or the One Act plays that were way better than TheatreWorks. These experiences *are* delightful, and the kids responsible should be admired as the geniuses they clearly are. But in this crazy place, that's the norm! So everyone else, the average kids, feel crappy.

I am blessed that my daughter was a hard-headed underachiever who was quite pleased with her 3.4 GPA and had friends and interests that kept her happy and "apart" from the pressure cooker of Gunn H.S. It troubled me a little because I'm one of those former "big fish" myself, but I also went through difficult times of not knowing what I wanted to do and realized that struggle and searching are part of life, and everyone does it on their own schedule.


Like this comment
Posted by Sue Dremann
Palo Alto Weekly staff writer
on Jul 9, 2011 at 10:12 pm

Sue Dremann is a registered user.

I would like to thank Enough! and others for their understanding regarding our inclusion of the mother's comments. Reporting on and being at such tragic incidents is always a difficult and emotional thing filled with sorrow.

The decision to initially report the mother's comments was because we wanted to show the very real effect and consequence such an act has on the people who love you and who you love.

There have been too many deaths in our community. It's my hope that however painful this was to read, perhaps someone thought twice about killing themselves after realizing the impact of suicide. Perhaps from under their own pain they summoned up the desire not to commit that act that would forever devastate their family and friends.


Like this comment
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 10, 2011 at 11:37 am

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

blinc62, you are full of it. The courts closed California mental hospitals, along with a democrat legislature. The thought, if you could call it that, was that chemical psychiatry would cure all ills. The legislature did not follow through, but that is not a surprise.


Sorry, but further commenting on this topic has been closed.

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