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Students, parents, teachers back pre-break finals

More than 3,600 surveyed as contentious Palo Alto school calendar issue returns to board

A solid majority of parents, teachers and high school students favor switching the Palo Alto school district's academic calendar to end the fall semester before the December holidays, according to a school district poll.

Sixty-five percent of more than 3,600 parents, students and school staff responding to a survey opted for first-semester finals before the break.

The contentious calendar issue returns to the Palo Alto Board of Education Tuesday (April 26), when board members will discuss a staff recommendation to switch the calendar, beginning in the 2012-13 school year. The proposal is for the fall semester 2012 to start on Aug. 16 and end Dec. 21.

A final vote is expected May 10.

Palo Alto's two high schools are among the few in the area still holding first-semester finals in January.

Most other high schools –- including Menlo-Atherton, Los Altos, Mountain View, Woodside, Castilleja, Menlo and St. Francis –- have moved to pre-break finals in efforts to ease academic stress by offering a clean break over the holidays.

Earlier recommendations to switch Palo Alto's calendar have failed.

Most recently, the school board appeared poised last November to back Superintendent Kevin Skelly's proposal for pre-break finals beginning this fall but opted instead for a "rollover" post-break-finals calendar for 2011-12 when several dozen opponents appeared at a Nov. 9 board meeting.

The opponents -- mostly parents and a few students -- argued that pre-break finals would intensify, not reduce, student stress in the busy pre-holiday performance season, which, for seniors, also coincides with college application deadlines.

In the poll conducted by the school district since then, support for pre-break finals was strongest among high-school staff (74.4 percent) and students (70 percent), followed by parents (66 percent) and elementary and middle-school staff (48.2). Though less than 50 percent of elementary and middle school staff backed December finals, only 22.4 percent backed post-break finals and 29.4 percent had no opinion.

Teacher response rates were 85 percent at Gunn, 75 percent at Paly, and more than 50 percent among middle and elementary school teachers, the school district said.

Approximately 2,700 parents, 430 high-school students, 165 high-school staff members and 310 middle- and elementary-school staff members voted in the poll.

Though consensus seemed decisive on pre-break finals, the tolerance among poll responders for uneven semesters –- which would be necessary to achieve pre-break finals while keeping the late-August school start date –- was less clear.

Teachers in particular indicated they were unwilling to accept more than eight days' difference in semester lengths, saying any greater difference could seriously compromise curriculum in the few courses that are only one semester in length.

Because of faculty concerns, the school district's calendar committee recommended making the 2012 school start date slightly earlier than in the recent past –- Thursday, Aug. 16 rather than Tuesday, Aug. 21.

That start date would yield an 86-day first semester and a 94-day second semester, ending on May 30, 2013.

While recommending pre-break finals, the calendar committee also will present a status quo "rollover" calendar to the board Tuesday as a back-up proposal.

In past meetings, all but one of the five board members -- Vice-Chair Camille Townsend -- has indicated a willingness to support a pre-break-finals calendar if it can be done in a way to meet teachers' concerns about uneven semesters. Members also said they would like to see accommodations for students who have heavy pre-holiday performance schedules.

Tuesday's board meeting begins at 6:30 p.m. in the board room of school district headquarters, 25 Churchill Ave. The calendar item will not come up until 8 p.m. at the earliest, school officials said.

Comments

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Posted by we have a winner
a resident of Crescent Park
on Apr 22, 2011 at 4:31 pm

These are the two issues that need to get resolved:

"If I controlled the school calendar, I would want first semester finals to occur.":
Strongly Agree/Agree: ~65%
Strongly Disagree/Disagree: ~22%
No Opinion: ~28%

"I support a school start date similar to the current date. (Two weeks prior to Labor Day)":
Strongly Agree/Agree: ~50%
Strongly Disagree/Disagree: ~23%
No Opinion: ~27%

So, same start date and before winter finals and you're onto a winner.


Like this comment
Posted by great
a resident of Palo Verde
on Apr 22, 2011 at 4:37 pm

Let's do it now since this year they already did all the tests before final..


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Posted by Paly Parent
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 22, 2011 at 4:38 pm

Question

My student told me in January that the finals were carrying so little of the grade that there was no point in studying as it would not change a good grade down or change a poor grade up. Is this true?


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Posted by sigh
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Apr 22, 2011 at 5:14 pm

Here we go again.... We don't want an earlier school year start date. PERIOD.

Suggestion: start after Labor Day and have finals far enough from winter break that they won't be an issue for the break. If finals are 3 weeks after the break or more, I don't buy the argument that people will be forced to study during break.


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Posted by kate
a resident of Midtown
on Apr 22, 2011 at 5:34 pm

I wonder if they ever considered trimesters instead of semesters? Oh, wait, that would take thinking outside the box... not a strength of PAUSD.


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Posted by great
a resident of Palo Verde
on Apr 22, 2011 at 5:54 pm

We need to listen to our students' teachers' voice first.


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Posted by High School Teacher
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 22, 2011 at 7:15 pm

I am a high school teacher and feel strongly that students need a break after finals. In reality, it doesn't matter to me if the finals are in Dec, Jan or Feb (school just needs to start early enough so that AP teachers have enough time to complete the material before the AP tests in May), but I think the students need a break between the semesters. Many students put a lot of time and energy into finals and it is a stressful week for many kids. When it is over, they need a break to recharge their batteries so they start the second semester rested and ready to learn. The 3rd quarter slump is a reality for many students because they are just plain tired and it is easy to get behind in the beginning of a semester since the perception is that there is still plenty of time to "catch up". What ends up happening is that 3rd quarter grades are lower and then students are stressed during the fourth quarter as they try to "raise" their grade. I think students would be much better off if there was a true (1 - 2 week) break between semesters.


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Posted by I knew it was a minority of whiners
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 22, 2011 at 7:49 pm

Can the school move finals exams to before Winter Break this year or do they have to monkey around and wait for the BoE to declare it?

I agree that the students need a real break. Sure, maybe students don't study during break now, but they sure feel the stress of having exams after Winter Break.

There should also be no projects due after Winter Break.

@Paly Parent: homework is considered in grades (which is great for the poor test takers) but the final exam CAN raise the total grade. My child had a "B+" which was raised to an "A-" after the final exam.


Like this comment
Posted by kate
a resident of Midtown
on Apr 23, 2011 at 9:41 am

I am a teacher in the district who is sick of this discussion. Sure, I have my opinion on what I think is best, but as a non-high school teacher, who really cares? My hope has been that this process would be open, honest, thoughtful, and one done with integrity. Has it been? Nope.

Quick example: the district should stop making comparisons to Castilleja. They start much later, end much earlier, and have vacations in February and April. Apples and oranges... Use relevant data.

I am not so sure about the reliability of the survey. The survey that was offered to teachers was written in that our responses were pigeon-holed into black or white responses which, I felt, skewed the responses toward what the district wanted to hear. There was no opportunity for thoughtful, qualitative response. Also, I know quite a few non-high school teachers who started the survey and realized that it was kind of a 'trap' to get teachers to rubber stamp finals before winter break and bailed on the survey with a 'what's the point?' attitude. If you (the district) really want our opinion, ask for it in a timely (not months after the discussion has been underway) and honest way or please don't bother.

Please, someone, just say it: this is all about AP classes. Also, if there are high school teachers assigning work or 'reading' over winter break, they should be held accountable by admin. We are in this mess partially because of some teachers who thumb their noses at what was agreed upon about Winter Break and have not been taken to task as they should have been.

And to the teachers whose one semester curriculum classes would be seriously compromised by uneven semesters, what are you teaching? A few days' worth of lessons of any topic, except maybe Performing Surgery 101, won't make or break anyone and certainly shouldn't be perceived as life changing for a teenager.


Like this comment
Posted by Gunn Mom
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 23, 2011 at 10:18 am

PAUSD school calendars are approved every 2-3 years, so why don't we switch to the proposed schedule and reassess in the future?

We'll never know which schedule is best for the most students without giving it a try.


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Posted by Student Teacher
a resident of Menlo Park
on Apr 23, 2011 at 11:36 am

Seems like unbalanced semesters would mean less flexibility, since classes would have to be tailored to the shorter or longer semester. You can't call it the same class when some students are covering more material.


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Posted by Anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 23, 2011 at 12:21 pm

I still think that having the year split into three segments ("trimesters") would work best for all except seniors. Seniors need to be on an earlier schedule because of the dumb college admissions process and the dumber AP exam juggernaut. Thinking outside the box, maybe seniors should just be on a different schedule from everyone else?


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Posted by anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 23, 2011 at 4:55 pm

I think it would help the students - academically - if they took the finals before break. TTke the finals, get some r&r, then see results in January. That way they'd get a good sense of how they performed in their classes so far. They could approach the new semester with a fresh attitude and a better idea of their own strengths and weaknesses. Trimesters would be a good way to do that too.


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Posted by Paly Parent
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 23, 2011 at 6:02 pm

This was the most slanted article I've read in a long long time. Look at the survey data--the community, including the high school students and parents, and including students and parents at other levels--absolutely do not want school to start any earlier than it already has in this district. This data is clear, in spite of a flawed survey that assumes answering "no" to "I support the current start date" means that the respondent wants school to start earlier, when they very well could be in favor of a post Labor Day start.

We've known that the community does not want to move the start date earlier into August, absolutely, for a long time--the community tells the board this loud and clear whenever the calendar issue comes up.

So, with that as a framework, the teachers were asked if they would support significantly uneven semesters. They said no, that even semesters are a priority, not prebreak finals, which while relieving stress in some areas may cause dramatically more stress in others.

And then the district--and this article--spins the fact that the teachers don't want significantly uneven semesters as endorsement of an earlier August start...I'd say it means they don't think prebreak finals are a priority.

One example of the way this article is backwards in many places--you say the board "indicated a willingness to support a pre-break-finals calendar if it can be done in a way to meet teachers' concerns about uneven semesters". That's not true, I was at that meeting. The board rather indicated a willingness to support a pre break finals calendar if such a calendar could be created without changing the August start, that is, if teachers were willing to support uneven semesters.

Chris--look at your notes from previous board meetings, look at the raw survey data (not the district's spin on that data), and try this article again. I suggest a headline, "Students, parents, teachers say no to earlier school start, uneven semesters."


Like this comment
Posted by Paly Parent
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 23, 2011 at 6:19 pm

and @Kate, I'm hearing that your experience is not unique--these surveys were created by district staff without any knowledge of how to design statistically valid surveys or reviewed for objectivity, teachers were pressured to "support" pre break finals in subtle and not so subtle ways--and we still can see from the data that the community does not want an earlier August start. Period.


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Posted by Paly Parent
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 23, 2011 at 6:29 pm

And one more serious mistake in this article:

The Pre Break Finals calendar does not move the August start date slightly earlier--it moves it 12 days--nearly two weeks earlier. Our district start date cycles between 8/22 and 8/28--and school ends the second week of June. It's been like this for years and years. The traditional start date for 2012-2013, as reflected in the rollover calendar proposed, is 8/28. Not sure where you got the incorrect data...


Like this comment
Posted by have cake and eat it, too
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Apr 23, 2011 at 6:43 pm

Once again, leading with a headline that shows you can ignore some info and emphasize other info to reach the conclusion you prefer... not the conclusion the data illustrates. Has anyone considered that school will be starting oh, say around August 11 at some point? Was that fact ever communicated in the survey? No, just the carrot of pre-break finals. Well, of course, everyone would like pre-break finals but at what cost?

The school district has made the issue black and white and does not want to consider any gray areas... such as recouping class time by getting rid of minimum days, changed holidays/10 day winter break, trimesters, or, dare to suggest, making college application essays part of the school curriculum as a way to reduce stress. This demonstrates an utter lack of creativity to a ridiculous issue from the very beginning. It's just so pathetic.


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Posted by Good Luck,Board!
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Apr 24, 2011 at 9:07 am

I believe that most of us want the darn first semester to end before winter break.

It makes no sense any other way. There is no way for kid to rest over winter break if they aren't DONE with the first semester.

But, I also am expecting the usual "can'ts" to rise up. Can't because it cuts into August too much, which interferes with August vacations ( because, it would be truly terrible to vacation in July). Can't because it makes sports harder to do while finishing the semester. Can't because performing arts kids will have too much pressure putting on pre-winter break performances AND finishing semester projects/tests. Can't because we are unable to do what other districts have done, successfully, because we are stuck in "can't".

I am so very grateful for those who have the fortitude to battle this out, year after year, putting up with the name calling, the screaming, the politics of it.

I hope this time we "just do it" and make the change. Cut out a few days of the 'days off' in the Fall to give back a few of the August days, and move forward.

Good luck, Board!!1Mfmi


Like this comment
Posted by Why change what works?
a resident of Community Center
on Apr 25, 2011 at 10:39 am

What a slanted article. The survey was not well-written. The majority do NOT want a start date in early August even if they do want pre-break finals.

Prebreak finals are not proven to reduce stress. And wait, did the students ever say there was really a problem with finals in late January when they have so few other things distracting them then? Did they say that their winter break was too stressful? Not that I heard, with any solid survey data. So what's the problem?

Sure, let's send our kids to school in early August when they should be swimming or such, stress them with finals right before break while they are trying to enjoy some holiday events and apply to colleges, leave them with no choice but to study all night prior to finals because there are no days in the schedule for study, and then watch them get sick so they can spend their holidays on the couch. Much less stressful. And I'm sure their final grades will really improve, along with the quality of those college essays.

I'm sick of this discussion. We have said it before and we'll say it again. Stop trying to make this huge, stressful, crazy change! What we have is working!





Like this comment
Posted by changeup
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Apr 25, 2011 at 10:57 am

Yeah, let's do it for 2011. I'd love for my child to have 4 consistent school calendars!!!! Instead of it being switched at the whim of a few community citizens.

All children need routine and consistency in their lives on a daily basis which will greatly reduce anxiety and frustration.

Thank you, thank you Palo Alto for coming together on this issue. Let's join the 21st Century!


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Posted by changup
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Apr 25, 2011 at 11:03 am

Senior's can avoid the stress of college applications if they manage their time and plan ahead to get their applications in November, instead of waiting and procrastinating.

Parent's can help the college selection process by getting involved sooner; start casually visiting college campus' the Sophomore year. Plan family trips to the areas that are of interest. It's so much easier to write about why you want to go to a particular campus after having visited it. It isn't sooo important to know "what" a student will major in, it's more important that the student can see themselves living and growing up in a particular environment with the courses of interest and options to explore to make a major and/or minor selection.



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Posted by anonymous
a resident of Professorville
on Apr 25, 2011 at 11:07 am

I have a *huge* concern about the early end date... May 30! Summer camps don't even start until third week in June. What in the world are working parents of elementary kids going to do for 3 weeks? Will PAUSD commit to running summer camps for the bridge period? (I doubt it...)


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Posted by Anotherpalyparent
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 25, 2011 at 11:15 am

I asked my kids (one Paly grad and one current student) what they thought about the pre- or post-break finals and they said their main source of stress is having all their project deadlines and finals in the same week or within a short period of time. Maybe we can keep the calendar the same but have some departments give their finals before the break and other departments give finals after the break.


Like this comment
Posted by Paly Parent
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 25, 2011 at 11:26 am

I'm not sure why we are still discussing this as well. Simply--

A. The community, that's parents, students, and most of the teachers, do not want to start earlier or end earlier. There are a host of tradeoffs involved, and the message given over and over is that these tradeoffs are not worth it.

B. The teachers believe even semesters take priority over pre-break finals.

So how did we add A plus B and get to a proposal that starts school two weeks earlier, ends two weeks earlier, and features uneven semesters which give students less time to learn the same amount of material? It baffles me...


Like this comment
Posted by Parent
a resident of Addison School
on Apr 25, 2011 at 11:46 am

I am not sure why we are even looking to alter the school calendar. When I've ask the team several times to provide the list of objectives, basically the response was the survey. There is no reason that resources are being wasted on this. Situations like this are why the education system is in need of additional money -- we waste it on subjects with no identified objective and attempt to say the admin is listening to parents and the community but just end of skewing the data to reflect their own personal objectives.


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Posted by parent
a resident of Gunn High School
on Apr 25, 2011 at 12:13 pm

Thanks to the committee for presenting calendars which are student oriented. Uneven semesters would play havoc with the curriculum, increasing stress tremendously.


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Posted by pre-break exams would be a good thing
a resident of Midtown
on Apr 25, 2011 at 12:55 pm

At the last few meetings most of the parents there were for post break finals. One reason reoccurred: they take their family vacations out of the country in August. But aside from these 20-30 families there are about 1080 other families in this public school district. The school board should not base their decision on 25 vocal parents whose consideration of this matter is very personal. The majority of families do not go to Europe during the summer. By August 16 the students are ready to go back to school.
Post break finals means the students have had their break, started new material for one week, and then review the old material, and then have their exams. If pre break, the material is fresher in their minds. They have the exams, have a clean break, and then start the new material. Pre break finals makes more sense! Pre break finalers pls come to the meeting to have your voices heard.


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Posted by Vianica
a resident of Palo Verde
on Apr 25, 2011 at 3:02 pm

Does not a start of a few weeks in August also mean end of the school year on May 30? I don't see where that eats up in any vacation time. And frankly, most parents scurry starting Jan to send their kids off to camp anyway so they don't have to give up their work hours getting "involved" in their kids lives. By the end of July, most parents want their kids off their hands and back to school.

Kids will get all of June, all of July and maybe a week in August. What is wrong in that? We grew up in a different country where week long,three-hours-each-testing-day, semester exams(we had two in a year starting from grade 1 and unit tests in between) were always before major holiday breaks. And I can vouch that it was always a relief to look forward to the break after the exams and not the other way around.

Listen to what the students want. As is we are putting them in a pressure cooker atmosphere starting at early grades. Let them enjoy the holidays/quality family time without stressing them up about exams. The romance of a leisurely vacation is a myth with this camp culture, don't destroy the one week of any left over traditions.


Vianica


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Posted by Working Parent
a resident of University South
on Apr 25, 2011 at 3:28 pm

If you've tried to find camp/childcare/enrichment program in June (or, as a working parent, tried to take time off in June, a typically busy period), you might not see two weeks in June as equivalent to two weeks in August. It really is two weeks less of summer at the end, with a two-week childcare problem tacked on at the beginning. Those working parents "scurrying" to sign up for camps in January at least have camps to sign up for (that start in mid -late June); they'll have a lot more scurrying to do to scramble for rare or nonexistent slots in August. It's not about not wanting to be "involved", it's about what it means to be a working parent.

And the students aren't saying they want finals before break--in most surveys they are evenly split, some think it better, some worse; a majority would leave them the way they are if it involves sacrificing August.

What we want is for them to enjoy vacations, holidays, and quality family time without being stressed; pre -break finals means less time for all of those, not less stress.


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Posted by senior concerns
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Apr 25, 2011 at 4:07 pm

@Changup: I agree about being organized and start working on apps beforehand for seniors. Unfortunately, some schools, especially UCs, don't post their essay questions till November!! My older daughter just went thru this. In addition, for those seniors who want to improve their SAT/ACT scores, December is the last month score accepted by most universities. Her current private high school accommodates seniors by excusing seniors from 1st semester finals! Personally, I like the pre-break finals but with some consideration for seniors!


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Posted by Parent
a resident of Mountain View
on Apr 25, 2011 at 9:35 pm

My kids and I have experienced the old way and the new proposed way, (earlier start and finals before Xmas), while they were in high school where this issue is really the most crucial. While change was uncomfortable that first year, we all got through it. Not only that, it turned out to be better in more ways than we realized.

After reading all the banter on this suject, it has validated the rumor I've always heard about Palo Alto parents. Thank goodness we chose to live in a different high school district.

Move on folks. Stop thinking about yourselves and start thinking about your children and the professionals that work hard to educate them. Give it 3 years, a reasonable period of time to assess things. If most don't feel it was beneficial in the critical areas, then change it back.


Like this comment
Posted by Resident
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 25, 2011 at 10:42 pm

One thing we should find out. What is absenteeism like for the month of August? How many families are not taking the first day of school seriously and keeping their children out of school until the second week or school or later?

My suspicion is that many families, particularly elementary families, are not back from vacation until the second week of school or even until September.


Like this comment
Posted by Huh?
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 26, 2011 at 12:31 am

How is it that other high schools in the area are starting the last week in August and ending in June, with finals before Winter Break? Why can't PAUSD follow their calendars?

Or can they allow only seniors to have their finals after Winter Break due to college apps and SATs in the fall?


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Posted by Perspective
a resident of Evergreen Park
on Apr 26, 2011 at 6:51 am

To Working Parent and Anon who are worried about a lack of summer camps with a May end date..don't worry, the camps will follow. There is money to be made in summer camps, and we ( so far) still live in a country where businesses are free to make money by filling a need.

They will be there if the kids are off school.


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Posted by Resident
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 26, 2011 at 6:56 am

Perspective

The theory of summer camps being there is right as the camps do follow the breaks. But, camps are usually run by college students and although some colleges are done by the end of May, others are not. It remains to be seen how early the summer camps can be staffed.

The Stanford camps are probably not able to start at the beginning of June, for example.


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Posted by Paly Parent
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 26, 2011 at 8:00 am

To the folks that say move on, or experiment and change it back--this is my child's senior year that is on the table, and I believe the calendar change will cause big big problems in all sorts of ways. So no, just letting this slide through, or letting the district "experiment" on my child's only senior year is not an option.


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Posted by former Paly parent
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 26, 2011 at 10:56 am

There obviously has been come calendar changing/experimentation over the years. There does not seem to be one ideal arrangement.
Thinking back, there was a year or two when there was a Feb. "ski week" break that did not do much for those of us without ski cabins. The wealthy that have the cabins loved it. That extended the school year, wreaking some havoc on student summer plans, directly impacting one of my teens at the time.
As for starting uber-early, that has an impact, too.
However, I do NOT understand why PAUSD cannot get with other successful local public school systems - Los Altos High, for example.
There are benchmarks around here - it's not necessary to look out of area, to upstate NY, as this district seems to do for occasional benchmarks.
I do feel the specific concern of parents of rising seniors; if you have not had students go through the college apps process recently, then you do not appreciate the time involved nowadays for them, and they CANNOT "do it all back in August" or some such, as some recommend. It is a FACT that there will be action for them in December. Also, there are some schools, like Rice, that have due dates in Jan. Students of this age are evolving, if you will, and some late choices and work like supplemental essays, letters of rec, resume updates, will normally ensue. Everyone isn't applying to UCs and CSUs, which have earlier cutoff dates.
In spite of all that, I support moving finals before winter break. Students, as much as possible, should have a vacation that really is a vacation.


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Posted by Mom
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Apr 26, 2011 at 2:32 pm

Please switch to pre-break finals! Our whole family was miserable because our high school student felt the absolute need to study. Our friends with kids at private schools went off on Christmas vacations completely happy.
There is a real difference in stress levels between PAUSD high schoolers, and the kids we know at neighboring public and private schools. The difference is the lack of a real break midyear.


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Posted by ignoring the real issues
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Apr 26, 2011 at 2:39 pm

Students have stated repeatedly and overwhelmingly that the major sources of stress are homework and projects.... not finals. The survey results showed that 78% of high school students had assignments due the 1st week after winter break.... in direct violation of the district homework policy. And yet, this continues to be completely ignored by everyone. The proposed calendars do nothing whatsoever to address this fact. The tragedy is that moving the calendar around is being marketed as a cure all when it's more like snake oil.


Like this comment
Posted by Bob
a resident of Crescent Park
on Apr 26, 2011 at 2:39 pm

I think this is a storm in a teacup.

Having sent three through the PA school system this just has never been much of a factor. They seem to have a nice winter break, then seem to get back to school. Of interest, in college lots of students have finals after the break.

I tend to want to be protective of the family time prior to school starting, and resist the drift to earlier summer starts. This resonates with the storm over students needing to sleep in during the morning - I could not see the reason to change.

Come to think of it, by the time the district sorts this one out, my kids will all be in college.


Like this comment
Posted by Working Mom
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 26, 2011 at 4:24 pm

I am looking forward to early June vacations when trips are not as expensive. August is just too expensive.

I am confident the camp schedule/day care will work out. There are/and will be options. It seems to me that the August vacation elite are a vocal minority.

Change it already and let's move on.


Sorry, but further commenting on this topic has been closed.

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