I'm from Michigan so I'll take a couple of guesses why their tomatoes seem to be a cut above. First, hotter temperatures and higher humidity may be factors along with natural rain water which some say picks up nitrogen from the air as it falls. I'm sure the many ombrologists or hyetologists out there will want to wade into this one.

More importantly, tomatoes ripened on the vine and freshly picked always seem exceptional compared to those ripening on the truck on the way to market.

I've never been to Michigan but I believe your taste buds Laura.
I'm giving a shout out to New Jersey tomatoes and corn as the best I've tasted! NJ gets a bum rap. Fantastic produce includes peaches, peppers, herbs and flowers. I think Bill Boos comments above, is on to something regarding the natural rain and humidity of these states.

I agree so much with Laura and Bill about Michigan tomatoes and corn !
I feel the same way about watermelon from Michigan, and would really
appreciate hearing about a place to buy good watermelon in this area.
I tried one stand (which has great produce otherwise) but the
watermelon had a firm texture, almost like cantaloupe, and tasted "flat."
Maybe watermelon also needs the humidity, temperature and rain that Michigan
has plenty of.

It's all in the soil prep. Secret = the kind (and proportion) of manure to mix-in with the planting environment (tub or ground).

Would love to share but owning a commercial tomato farm, folks would grow their own rather than buy them at specialized produce markets.

soil ph = 6.5 (slightly acidic) + direct sunlight + irrigation every 2-3 days + adequate drainage + Vacaville Man's manure choice. A local commercial secret around here.

Fascinating. The secrets are coming out tonight...

The manure choice is critical BUT the soil ph must be maintained at around 6.0-6.8 for best results.

This is accomplished by mixing ground oyster shell into the soil mixture to counter-balance any excess acidity from the natural fertilizer and in the soil itself. For example, some folks use Supersoil as their primary planting mixture (which is slightly acidic). This + the natural acidity of manure can create a soil environment detrimental to the ideal development of plant structure in its initial growth stage and the texture and natural sweetness of the tomatoes which emerge later.

Balance the soil ph and the choice of manure becomes less important unless you wish to enter your tomatoes in the county fair.

And then you stand over the soil and say,

Hail to the dirter's valient
Hail to the nonconcrete hero

Because of the gusty winds, tomato vines in this area must be stronger and more supportive...especially when bearing developing/ripening fruit.

My uncle is a tomato farmer out that way and to share the manure type and soil mixture would be a disservice to all of the semi-local professionals who work hard to put food on your table.

The tomatoes from Mexico are not grown to the same rigid standards. Most are like typical home-grown except that they are picked too soon for shipping purposes.

One tip. Tomatoes like direct sunlight and warm temps so if you don't have ideal exposure, consider a small hothouse/greenhouse.

OK so maybe some Californians have figured out the tomatoes a little.

Maybe.

But never the corn. Not ever the corn.

Is that why we cheer for the Maize & Blue?

> But never the corn. Not ever the corn.

Good corn (yellow) can be grown locally. There used to be a produce stand near Shoreline/MV that grew great corn in the surrounding area.

High quality seed, good irrigation and again, direct sunlight was their secret. They also had two 'picks', an AM pick and a late afternoon pick.

According to the proprietor, corn should be eaten within 4-6 hours after picking.

Like an exquisite red wine, manure must be carefully 'aged' to bring out its finest qualities.

Fresh manure is high in nitrogen (similar to the astringent tannins in a cabernet sauvignon). And as we all know, too much nitrogen burns plants.

The more flies on a fresh pile of excrement, the higher the overall quality. After all, a hundred flies can't be wrong...right?

As far as the best manure for tomatoes, there are essentially 3 primary ones (excluding bat guano) from which to solve this 'pro' secret.

Let's call or consider it a multiple choice question. If you pick the correct manure and balance the soil ph along with the additional factors cited by others, you will be growing heirloom tomatoes that rival the best. The options:

a.) horse manure
b.) cow manure
c.) chicken manure

We appreciate the input about the tomatoes and corn ( especially from the cute "Maize and Blue" folks)
but for those of us from the Authentic Green and White Ag University (Michigan State Univ) we'd still like
info about where to find sweet watermelon in the Bay Area. Thanks for any input !

So.. I've lived in NJ and Michigan, (and here for the last 30 years) and it does seem like the corn and tomatoes are better in those places. I've always attributed it to the fact that those places get lots of lightning storms, which helps fix the nitrogen in the air/soil to make it available to the plants:

Web Link

Out here in the Bay Area we get very little lightning, so we don't have natural nitrogen fixation. We have lots of other fixations but that's a different story.

Probably completely wrong, but that's my theory :)

In Virginia, Hanover tomatoes are considered the gold standard, and they are definitely better than CA tomatoes. This article looks at why one county can produce better tomatoes than other neighboring counties - mostly, as some of the ag experts above noted, it's about the soil pH and also the specific composition of the soil and how it holds water as well as the climate.

Web Link

If you ever go to Virginia or Washington DC during tomato season, be sure to try some!

> we'd still like info about where to find sweet watermelon in the Bay Area. Thanks for any input!

Every watermelon lover in CA knows that during the course of the summer you will probably experience only 1-2 truly great watermelons in terms of natural sweetness and texture.

This is where the Michiganders chime-in on their secret(s).

QUOTE: "I've always attributed it to the fact that those places get lots of lightning storms, which helps fix the nitrogen in the air/soil to make it available to the plants:

If that was the case, Arizona would grow the best tomatoes, corn and watermelons...but they don't.

Great thread topic/discussion. Sure beats debating the merits of ramen and acidic fusion salads.

@PA Skeptic

Well, I didn't say it was the ONLY thing you needed to grow great tomatoes and corn. If you have all the other conditions like humidity soil, temperature band, etc. then the lightning provides that extra final boost.

But probably commercial fertilizers could do the same exact thing as lightning so not sure the theory would hold up under scrutiny :)

Many of the watermelons sold in CA come from Mexico. Perhaps the Mexican agriculturists need to raise the bar so that their melons can compare with Michigan's.

Nothing beats a good Alabama watermelon in the summertime. We use pig manure because there's plenty of it. That + red dirt and a blistering hot sun (with intolerable humidity) during the days ensures perfection.

If you want a good watermelon, you gotta pay the dues baby.

In the end, the common factor in this mystery is humidity. I bet it's the humidity.

"In the end, the common factor in this mystery is humidity. I bet it's the humidity."

Might be. If more Hawaiians were into eating tomatoes, corn and watermelons, we would blow the Michigan, California and Mexican growers out of the water!

After all, we did OK with 'da kind'. We got the humidity, the heat, the red dirt and plenty of pigs and chickens.

Great tomatoes are grown in many places across the globe and the plants are not particularly finicky about the humidity.

As far as I can tell it mostly comes down to the soil, the right amount of irrigation, and enough sunlight.

Surprisingly no one has mentioned any tomato breeds/hybrids.

My personal favorite is the Momotaro hybrid. Grown properly, it puts the beefsteak to shame in terms of fullness, sweetness and overall size.

c.) chicken manure

It sure doesn't depend on humidity! Kauai has lots of that plus warm temperatures and abundant sunshine, but has lousy corn, tomatoes and melons. My own guess is a combination of soil pH, manure (chicken, please) and natural water (i.e. rain). Cal Water puts too much stuff in ours!

The right manure is critical. It goes without saying that nothing beats the locally sourced variety. One needs to select the source with care, paying especially close attention to the nurture of the creature that produced it. The animal's diet is absolutely critical, as it ultimately determines the composition if your tomatoes. I find I get the best tomatoes when I establish and maintain a close working relationship with the producer of the manure I lovingly tuck around their roots..

The most entertaining article and comments I've seen in a long time. It got a lot of chuckles out of me. There was almost enough information in them to make me think about wanting to try growing tomatoes again...except I have a good friend who has taken up the art/hobby and provides me with 'county fair blue ribbon quality' tomatoes. He knows and applies all the secrets others have offered in their comments.

I tried, with limited success, for a few years, but, to be honest, I didn't try very hard. I didn't give the plants much of a chance. I bought them, dug a hole for them, mixed in some soil additives/nutrients, planted them, and then watered them. And then watched and waited. Oh, the excitement when I saw the little blossoms from which nice tomatoes would come. And they did for a few years. Then my tomato plants started looking very sad and bad. I continued to water them faithfully, but that didn't help, and maybe made it worse. Then my research took me to why I had the problem. Fusillium wilt was the predominant answer. I read on and learned how to get rid of it. That involved pasteurizing the soil, planting in other locations in the garden, etc., but at that point, I just didn't want to be a home gardener anymore. Okay, hiss and boo all you want!

I think Bill Boos and the aggie commenters had it right. I would just add that longer daylight days in Michigan might have something to do with it. My parents and I traveled to Alaska in 1955. We drove from Fairbanks to Anchorage on the Richardson Highway. As we approached Anchorage we passed by many garden farms and saw the biggest lettuce, cabbage, and many other vegetable plants that we'd ever seen before. They were getting the benefit of the almost midnight sun...they grew almost 24/7. I don't like watermelon so I won't comment on that, but will later, on yellow corn. And my vote is for 'chicken manure'.

@It Can Be Done

I have the same memories of that place. I bought corn there on my way back from the Shoreline Golf Course, many times, even as late as just before Thanksgiving. I had good conversations with the wife of the owner, a Japanese-American family. She was manning the booth, so to speak. She was so happy to tell me about the plot of land and her family's history, and proud to say the little produce farm put their kids thru college. Now that is a success story that needs to be told and heard. I always bought yellow corn.

Again, I am no one to compare Michigan corn to California corn, but if theirs is better, I sure as heck would like to try it sometime. My recent experience with locally grown yellow corn is at the Obon Festival held at our Buddhist Temple on Louis Rd here in PA the first weekend of August. And I can still buy it at the Corn Palace off Lawrence Expressway in Santa Clara. The suggestion to eat it soon after you buy it, is a good one. I've never grilled it, but have seen so many raving reviews on how good that is.

This blog should back on the 'front page'. It's one of the better ones.

> I find I get the best tomatoes when I establish and maintain a close working relationship with the producer of the manure I lovingly tuck around their roots..

How close a relationship?

Originally from the East Coast and I can attest to superior New Jersey tomatoes and corn. Yum!
(But hey, the organic tomatoes I'm growing in my garden here in Wine Country aren't half bad.)

I agree that the intense summer season in four-season regions can make it easier to grow better tomatoes and corn, and that generally I agree with you. That said, I have had better tomatoes and corn in California than in Michigan. As to the tomatoes, it came down to the varieties, good sunshine (East Bay hillside, not Peninsula which is almost hopeless), and well-composted horse manure. The tomato variety makes a huge difference. I have had only limited success with tomatoes on the Peninsula but one year I grew Ed's New Millenium (not Ed's Millenium, which did not do well) and it was like a Jack and the Beanstalk story. Dry farmed tomatoes are my favorite and I have never seen them in Michigan. I have been less successful with chicken manure than good well-composted horse manure, not sure why.

The best corn I ever ate was an heirloom white variety I grew myself in the East Bay, that had to be consumed immediately after picking or it became a different food. It was tricky to grow and even harder to pick at the right time in competition with the raccoons.

Maybe there's more salt in Michigan Laura!... LOL

Which California? people seem to forget there are a lot of vastly different growing areas. Try some dry farmed CA tomatos from the north central valley. You'll then know how some CA toms can be spectacular while others can be so average. Same with melons, same with corn. if you don't like one area's produce, try another. FWIW, we grew super sweet yellow corn in Paso Robles that we simply ate raw it was that good. Better than any corn I've ever tasted to this day. Sometimes localism and pride get in the way of realizing it's just soil light and water, manipulated for the best outcome.

@Food nerd
You'd think with as much bullshit as there is around, that that might be one of the favorites. lol!

At least no suggested (or raved about) the benefits of using 'night soil' for growing their prize-winning tomatoes. That would be scary.

@Gale,
Yes, but the BS has to be well composted and high quality., without corruption by toxic additives....

Now I feel like making some too. I miss my granny who is always fond of cooking similar dishes like this one.

I am from Yuma, and I have to say, I learned a lot from this post. I have ALWAYS thought that the seeds were the hottest part of the pepper, but the vein? Mind blown!

I am running to the store now to get some fresh tomatoes and cilantro and Peppers for a homemade salsa. This blog made me hungry!

I'm from Michigan but you are right. This is only during summer otherwise my opinion is that all hot house tomatoes are equally bad. Michigan tomatoes seem to be sweeter. I miss them, especially home grown, even though I've been in California for over 48 years. Let me know if you ever definitively find out why.

K Wade, Thanks for the continued contact, this blog just keeps going! They are sweeter - I agree. More complex somehow. I've never had a CA tomato that has come close to a homegrown Michigan tomato