And speaking of "men paying," what's Vinod Khosla building behind Rossotti's? A castle? He bought the land (as well as Martin's Beach)and it has been a heavy machinery carnival for months while he takes over the whole area. Awful! He certainly should pay for a round of drinks for the regulars if nothing else, just for all the noise and commotion.

This is a very funny and thought provoking article. Not that long ago I was at a local establishment and while awaiting the attention of the bartender there was standing next to me a very attractive young woman. I offered to buy her a glass of wine. With my gesture so graciously accepted I can tell you I would gladly do so again. That being the point, the key in a gift, is the giving and the receiving. My offer to pay was really more of a random act of kindness than a come on, but that can change as fast as the expectations can, as your article makes clear and possibly makes for more fun! Anyway, I thought I would share my own recent experience, and Rossotti’s sounds like a cool place, I will check it out.

Dude, you should. You never know who you might meet at Zots. Sometimes it's magical!

> “Let men pay. They like it. It’s sexy.”

If you intend to actually have sex, perhaps. If not
them letting the man pay and injecting "sexy" into a
not sexy situation is an interesting fail ... a bit
female chauvinistic I think.

This a a psycho-sexual melange of confusion that really
does no go with the new world we seem to be slouching
towards. Women earning the same as men, but men have to
pay for women. If they actually have sex then if the
woman conceives a child for any reason the man is a captive
paying "parent" with no say in anything unless there is a
matrimonial contract. If there is a matrimonial contract
then even if there is a pre-nup the women has the right
to ask, challenge and demand part of the man's wealth.
To be fair I suppose this goes both ways, I've heard it
said?

Now, what some men seem to think is sexy is actually
paying for "it" itself, meaning, no ambiguity, and the
ability to immediately disentangle and avoid that
obligation to be confused.

Either way, it is way to complicated and confusing for
me, and when either, any or whatever way things go I
never appreciate someone imposing their expectations
on me one way or the other. What really is to like is
someone who respects another person enough to bring
creativity and spontaneity to bear in finding comfortable
ways to communicate that do not involve dumping non-
verbal expectations on someone, which can sadly sometimes
set the tone for decades of confusion! ;-)

Oh, and yes, men like it, because men, and most other
genders, just like to be nice to potential friends and
lovers, not necessarily because it is sexy. But these
days I think avoiding confusion rules!

I only pay for dates that can hold a conversation about the Forty Niners! Actually never thought or cared either way about that. Now people checking their phones however... A fun read!

L, what makes your columns so much fun is how you catch the essence of these different moments, and pull them together, adding a bunch of lively and amusing comments. And pictures! Did I mention pictures? I hope everyone appreciates the monogrammed napkin in particular! And the dive bar contradicted by the--what kind of car is it, anyway?

To answer your question, it wouldn't lessen my fun if you paid the bill! Not one jot nor tittle! But the knife in that romantic little still-life with big bills looks suspiciously like a steak knife! Isn't that taking vegetarian tolerance a little too far?

One last question: the 49ers, so two years ago, don't you think? If we talked about the Warriors, the Splash Brothers, Mo' Buckets, etc, wouldn't that be ok?

One more last question: How you gonna top this one? Guess what? I don't think you'll have any trouble, speaking confidentially!

@D, looks like an '05 Bentley Continental GT.
Reflecting an obligatory pair of Harleys.

Good response Plane Speaker. There are many ways to take this post and I like your addition.

And D, back in the house! Thanks for your readership, and the comments. I thought that $$$ photo was funny; $100 bills on a heart plate with a steak knife slicing thru. Thanks for noticing.

Musical has it right, the car is a Bentley, starting price $181,000 from my research. Those $5 glasses of wine at Zots can help with the payments.

In my college days I attended an all-female school back in the Boston area, circa 1971, I had a date (the one and only) with a fellow in Cambridge, MA. He took me out for falafels. then, after paying, he steered the comversation to the subject of immediately "putting out" for him because he had just bought a meal.

I was flabbergasted. (Not to mentioned very insulted.)

I don't know if men still assume that if they buy a meal they can have you for desert, but I prefer to decide about desert on MY terms. I mean really, where were his values, or who did he get them from (his fraternity brothers) to even think that paying for a meal entitles you to some sexual recompensation?

Like I said, first and last date with him. He never called again to my relief, probably because I was so bold as to call him out for his crass attitudes.

Hi Laura,

Enjoyed your article. Being a widower for 2 years I've been slow in getting back into the dating scene, but I've also had to learn again, and deal with, the 'who pays?" issue. Times have changed a little bit, thanks to the women's movement and push for equality on all fronts, so I think that has given way and relief to the old idea that the 'man' should always pay. The days of chivalry ended a long time ago I think. But I'm still pretty much old school so I have paid so far, unless there was another event involved in the outing, like a play at Lucie Stern Theater when tickets cost $55-$70 each. I pay for dinner, you pay for your own show ticket. It's worked out very well.

Now to the Zot's story part. I worked for Kaiser Electronics for 27 years. The first years, starting in 1964, were when our plant was located on Page Mill Road just up the road from HP's original plant. We were one of many small companies in what was then called the Stanford Industrial Park. KE employees gave Zots a lot of business back then. Then our company moved to San Jose in 1978, into the new Orchard Parkway development off Trimble Road. So, no more parties at Zots until maybe 6 or 7 years ago. Then I got the inspiration and brilliant idea..lol..and promoted it with the help of so many other former co-workers, to have a big reunion party at Zots. It happened. It was so good to see all, or most, of my old friends, co-workers and bosses from those old days on Page Mill Rd. So, party time again. We could still order those greasy burgers off the grill that we loved so much, from the same lady who served them up years ago. And we got those big baskets of fries...way too many...but we forced ourselves to eat them with lots of ketchup. And of course we had to go to the bar to order and pick up your beer. Nothing had changed in all those years.

The backyard? Just long picnic tables...dirt...no lawns. but a quiet place to meet and reminisce. A memorable day at Zots. Those who stayed inside got to sit at tables that had been hand carved for years with initials. And there was the old story about rooms off to the left where guys and gals got together for fun and recreational activities in the early days of it's existence.

And yes, I've seen more $20K+ 'hogs', $50-$60K SUV's, and now this almost 200K Bentley parked in front. It's the place where really rich folks like to go to and be be seen without going to all those other dive bars available. Plus, it's right in their super rich neighborhood. They don't have to come down out of the hills to PA to have fun. I think it's time for me to pay another visit to Zots and rub shoulders with the really rich.

Anyone know more about Rossotti's Patron question? What's Khosla building behind Rossotti's?

4,000 square foot single family residence
1,000 square foot guest house
9,800 square feet of private horse barn
38,000 square foot open arena

Page 1 of Web Link dated Sept 2013.
(Environmental Checklist and Evaluation for Santa Clara County)

Musical, Not only are you melodically-inclined, you are left-brained too - on top of the facts. That's what we see from Zot's backyard - horse barn. Huge horse barn. Thanks.

This post violates the gender standards of today's society. So it is TRIGGERING. Please stop before you offend more women and men and those in between.

Wow, Laura, this is getting good! I was afraid this thread would fizzle out...but NO! You did predict lots of comments...

Harry Foster, you are so right about TRIGGERING! I mean, this whole thing is SO RETRO! On the other hand, what makes you think that male and female are at the poles? Maybe male and female are huddled in the middle, and the other folk are reaching into the future, predicting what's to come? Or maybe it's not linear, it's a circle? A sphere?

As for you Vinod Khosla bashers, I'm sure you're being unfair. I'll bet he gives way more to help other people than he invests in his Martin's Beach defense team, and his supra-Rossoti's estate! And demands nothing in return! He's not one to want to rename SF General, or anything else...

Let's have a little generosity of spirit here, please!

Harry Foster - welcome to The Food Party! Where sometimes things are said that people disagree with. Makes for great party discussion. Thanks for coming and commenting. But hey, don't shoot the messenger. Brother, what choo got to say for yourself? (I don't even think he reads The Food Party! to be honest, so don't expect a response).

Thanks for hanging in there D. The week's not over yet!

Girls don't pay. Guys pay.

The Bentley thinks she deserves a $5 glass of wine for using her image and keeps asking me "What's a payment?"

BillyB - the drink is on me!
And DebbyD - Welcome to The Food Party!

Hi all,
Interesting topic and it's great to hear the varying opinions, stated in considerate fashion.

I'm a 50-something single woman. I personally feel strongly about paying my share in pretty much all situations I encounter. It's simply fair, isn't it? That's generally how friends/neighbors/acquaintances behave, so why not men and women?

I do appreciate men offering. It's sweet and considerate. But I do want to pay for myself.

If we want to be treated and paid as equals, (and we do) I believe we must behave as if we are equal. I would go as far as to say that it is important that women step up and change the "traditions" (in a diplomatic, not shrill, way if possible), if we want to see things in the world change for women. Even if it's initially flattering to be offered a drink or a lunch.

If it offends a man's feeling of masculinity or power to have a woman pay their share, maybe this might be something they need to ponder. In any case, I don't think it's the woman's issue if she's simply asking to pay for what she bought.

Let's turn the tables. If a woman insisted on paying the whole bill, against a man's protests, how do you think that would be received? That's actually what is happening, but in reverse.

In any case, let's ask each other about this - men and women - bring it out in the open and see what it's all about.

Midtown Woman, a resident of Midtown states her point of view well.

I am reminded of reading marketing and advertising books and how they
mention that a strategy of selling is to make the customer/mark feel
indebted to you ... by giving them something free.

They do it all the time, the Jehovah Witnesses give you their free newsletter,
in the grocery story they give you free samples, when you get something for
free you feel indebted. Obviously this does not apply if you know someone
and have some kind of relationship, friendship, etc.

Think of all those scenes in the movies where men are at a bar and send
drinks over to women ... what do they usually imply. It has not happened to
me, but I have friends who go to bars a lot and have bought women drinks
to have them come over and be rude for some reason, slam the drink down
say thanks and leave. People are weird ... how do you know if someone
deserves to be bought a drink ... i.e. "treated"?

So, it merely makes sense if you care about keeping things straight, honest
and aboveboard unless it is understood as a gift from maybe someone you
will never see again, like someone who lends you a $1 for a drink on a hot
day if you don't have any money. Things are better off clear.

As a male I would be fine if a woman offered to pay her share, and just
a bit unclear if she offered to pay. It's not that big of a deal, but I think
you start off better without creating any confusion? It makes you more
perceptive of / attentive to the other person. ??? i think.