Obama's Undeserved Peace Prize
Original post made
by Paul Losch, a resident of Palo Alto,
on Oct 10, 2009
This is not about Obama.
The Nobel folks decided, rightly or wrongly, to send the message that the United States as a country is important, and the Obama leadership is welcomed, and the Bush leadership is rebuked in a major way.
The Obama White House was so surprised by this whole thing that I find it surprising the President could make a statement within hours.
Should he have declined the honor? Reasonable people can argue yes and no around that. For me, he described the prize as a call to action. A call to action cannot be argued, prize or not.
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Posted by Perspective
a resident of Midtown
on Oct 21, 2009 at 6:09 am
Yep..uh huh..yes, right.
The classical liberals ( the dreaded label "neo-con") clearly were and are as scary as Hitler in their beliefs and techniques. C'mon...you gotta be kidding...You truly believe that people who stand on the side of individual freedoms and individual rights would pull a Hitler? Geez. Europe's education is pretty scary if this is what they are producing. Did you and your friends study all the speeches of Stalin? Mao? Castro? Note any similarities? Did you know that Mao massacred more people than Hitler and Mussolini combined? Somehow Mao is never held up as a symbol of horror..think about why you think "Hitler" not "Mao" whenever you want such a symbol, and ask yourself why this is true? Examine your own brainwashing.
Not saying that Hitler was a good guy, don't get me wrong!! But the reflexive comparisons of all quote "right wing" to Hitler is absurd.
First, if you listen to Hitler's GOALS and the methods he wanted to use to get there, not just the "pretty speeches"..who/what party does he remind you of?
You have to learn that EVERY dictator wanna-be uses high sounding rhetoric in speeches, period. EVERY candidate and party sounds the same in its goals. Most humans want peace and prosperity, so of course speeches sound "the same". Read what Mao, Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin all "said" in their speeches, and you will be shocked at how much you agree with. for their goals "Peace" "Prosperity" "Health Care for all" "No more poverty" "Our moral duty to..." Blah blah blah
Where the real fear comes into play is when there is a brainwashed public and "journalism" which has a propoganda template, combined with a government determined to convince you to "believe what I tell you, not what you see" mentality, mixed in with always standing on the same side as loss of individual liberty, ...be it in deciding which other governments to support, or which domestic policies to push.
This pattern has clearly been the tactic of the Democrat party in this country for over 30 years, and has now come back into full ascendency. You have not seen AS MUCH, please note, I said AS MUCH, coming from our right, or even the European right. Some, because ANY growth in government equals a loss of someone's individual amount of freedom.
If you don't like to read, tre to see the movie "Straight Talk", or the other one "Remains of the Day" to get a sense of true historical perspective. Compare to who says and does what today. Check out the list of Nobel Peace "Prize" nominees and recipients, and you will see why Obama was not overly thrilled with getting this "award". he knows what company he is in, for the most part. Don't be shocked if somebody nominates, let alone gives the award to, Chavez next year for his "Peace Work" in South America with Zelaya ( I say this with full disgust). Ask anyone, and I mean anyone, who grew up behind the Iron Curtain, in Cuba, or anywhere south of our border, who the Dems remind them of right now, and see what they say.
Then ask yourself, would your life be better going back to the dreaded "neo-cons" who ruled in the 80s, and latter 90s and 2000s,( look up what a neo-con is, by the way..I doubt you know), or continuing along the path we are on right now, a la 70s, or currently Chavez and Zelaya? ( I have no doubt that Chavez is going to get a Nobel Peace Prize next year..you wait and see..if he succeeds in shoving Zelaya back into power over the will of the entire constitutionally elected representatives of Honduras).
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Posted by A Noun Ea Mus
a resident of Professorville
on Oct 21, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Being a counter culture hippie back then was probably just a way to get laid. And now such a rejected stance is used for street cred being a modern NeoCon.
But......My Sweet Neocon
You call yourself a Christian
I think that you're a hypocrite
You say you are a patriot
I think that you're a crock of shit
And listen now, the gasoline
I drink it every day
But it's getting very pricey
And who is going to pay
How come you're so wrong
My sweet neo con.... Yeah
It's liberty for all
'Cause democracy's our style
Unless you are against us
Then it's prison without trial
But one thing that is certain
Life is good at Haliburton
If you're really so astute
You should invest at Brown & Root.... Yeah
How come you're so wrong
My sweet neo con
If you turn out right
I'll eat my hat tonight
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah....
It's getting very scary
Yes, I'm frightened out of my wits
There's bombers in my bedroom
Yeah and it's giving me the shits
We must have lots more bases
To protect us from our foes
Who needs these foolish friendships
We're going it alone
How come you're so wrong
My sweet neo con
Where's the money gone
In the Pentagon
Yeah ha ha ha
Yeah, well, well
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...
I suppose also supporters of a more "socialistic" model, where capitalism and socialism co-exist even, could wrap themselves as the most solid "conservatives" and reference tribal society. Spin being what it is.
Well if we are to get into a discussion of "does the left wing or right wing have more bloody hands"...
I watched a documentary (Ironwood Film) about North Korea a while back. It pretty much (IMO) accurately described the dismal and despicable situation there--and probably that is just the tip of what may later be revealed.
But one interesting aspect was that some of the anti-North Korean activists pointed out that their "natural allies" tended to be legislators who had a more conservative bent, that many on the left didn't seem interested in either exposing or countering the repression in North Korea.
Of course the reciprocal of this is when conservatives rant about Cuba, yet are all to eager to ignore, deny, or even celebrate, the huge body count across Latin America---all due to US trained and inspired death squads, CIA inspired coups, etc. Brazil, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Chile, Argentina, etc. The body count is about 100,000 in some of the smaller countries alone.
And in the above post we see support for the military coup in Honduras, probably a support which would embrace a return to death squad tactics of the 80's.
Whenever I hear people try to compare Hitler's crimes with those of Stalin or Mao's...it's usually a marker that person really wishes the USA and Britain had teamed up with Germany against the USSR, etc. Like that Command and Conquer video game historic revision.
What is further interesting is that, while the poster alluding to GW Bush bringing on a fascist state in the USA may be a bit hyperbolic,......one can back away from the fascist label a bit and still find plenty of room for the world to have been very concerned and threatened by the actions of Bush/Cheney. Just bathe in the light of Bolton ranting.....
Look at the juxtaposition! Even if Bush was a fascist leader on the prowl, or had potential for such, this isn't nearly as bad as Stalin or Mao. And Stalin or Mao is 1) what we've had somewhat with 30 years of the Democrats (?) and 2) Obama is looking to be another Stalin of sorts.
And meanwhile we now have "The Oathers", using the 2nd Amendment hysteria to get people pledging to "resist".
I sometimes think that we are actually headed for another Civil War. We have a modern day Lincoln of sorts---wants to preserve the union ("bi-partisanship") but doesn't realize that his very election has sent the opponents into a frenzy. One now seeming to be led by South Carolina politicians just as in the past (Calhoun from SC caned Thaddeus Stevens and SC first to secede). In retrospect Lincoln seemed to know exactly what he was doing and played it well, with the slaveowners finally being suppressed. I can only hope President Obama is acting in likewise fashion, with the big picture in mind.
The right wing seems to be in a frenzy to reverse the popular swing of things....denying voter rights via attacks on ACORN, bringing up secession in Texas, bringing up a military coup as an option in an established old school Republican magazine, calling reasonable efforts to step back from the brink of financial plutocracy as "Statism" in an effort to envelope years of anti-gov. spin. And now the profoundly discredited "NeoCons" can try to wrap themselves in some type of Counter Culture rebelliousness.
Before it settles into the solid camps I predict many of the "Tea Baggers" may switch as their economic interests aren't being served by those they support now. And that many liberal Palo Altan types will forgo liberalism (if it means paying a living wage to city workers for instance as opposed to pocketing more and hiring from Home Depot parking lot).