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Support oil companies that provide leadership on climate change

Original post made by Rwolf on Nov 4, 2009

Support oil companies that provide leadership on climate change

Valero Energy has started a fear campaign to try to get people opposed to Cap & Trade legislation that will reduce carbon dioxide emissions. My local station has put really obnoxious advertisements on their pumps claiming cap & trade will raise gas prices astronomically. I was so offended that I drove off without buying their gas.

I've done a bit of homework online and found that BP (BP, Arco, AM/PM), Shell and ConocoPhillips (Union 76, Conoco , Phillips 66) are the only oil companies participating in the U.S. Climate Action Partnership, (www.us-cap.org, a partnership of leading energy businesses, The Nature Conservancy, Environmental Defense Fund, Natural Resources Defense Council, The Pew Center on Global Climate Change and World Resources Institute)

Help the planet, buy your fuel from responsible companies.

Find ConocoPhillips stations at Web Link

Find Shell stations at
Web Link

Find BP stations at:
Web Link

Avoid Valero stations!


Comments (19)

Posted by ten18, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 4, 2009 at 9:26 pm

As someone who is opposed to cap and tax, I won't hesitate to stop in at a Valero station. Any corporation who opposes yet another government scheme to rob working folks of their hard earned money - this time in the name of the AGW psychosis - I'll support. As for the rest of them - it's all politically correct posturing.


Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of Midtown
on Nov 5, 2009 at 3:10 am

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

As PG&E learned, if you stand on principle the regulators will kill you. Better to cut a deal as long as the politicians give you permission to rape your customers. Cap & trade is just selling indulgences, a private tax on productivity.


Posted by Truth and Consequences, a resident of South of Midtown
on Nov 5, 2009 at 6:10 am

Thanks for the info. I will now buy my gasoline exclusively at Valero stations!. I like to support companies that tell the truth. There are consequences for those who do not stand up for the truth.


Posted by No Cap and Trade, a resident of Meadow Park
on Nov 5, 2009 at 6:13 am

I am shopping at Valero from now on. The Cap and Trade bill is like the DDT ban in Africa..purely political with no basis in real science, designed to line the pockets of a few at the expense of millions ( research how much money Gore stands to make if this goes through and you will see the tip of the iceberg about the real agenda)..At least we won't die from it, like millions do from Malaria in Africa because the UN banned ( again) safe DDT to kill mosquitos,( follow the money), but it WILL cut yet more jobs and be a hidden tax on us through increased energy and products costs passed on to us.

No, stop Cap and Trade, stop Government takeover of health care, cars, finance industry, ..what else is there? The list is growing so long I am losing track.

Stop the huge power grab by the Feds at every turn.



Posted by VoxPop, a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Nov 5, 2009 at 7:12 am

You sound like a lot of ostriches.


Posted by RS, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Nov 5, 2009 at 7:39 am

VoxPop

Some here just dont believe climate change is happening, lets ignote them for the moment

If climate change is the problem, is cap & trade the solution?
Personally I dont believe it works since people will just cheat. It will separate the honest people from their money and reward the cheaters. If its the solution, it only works in a system where everyone plays the game and plays it fairly. There has to be an incentive to reducing carbon footprint to get people to follow the plan. Tell people how their life today will be better if they play along. Otherwise this is the reaction you get and people on this board are educated. Now move on to the guy just scraping by and tell him he has to make his life worse to follow this plan. Most people are not incentivized by a long term plan. It how we as a people or individuals get in a lot of the messes we get in.


Posted by ten18, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2009 at 7:48 am

I believe climate change is happening, but I don't think man has a whole lot to do with it one way or the other. And I really object to the idea of it as a basis to steal money from people!


Posted by No Cap and Trade, a resident of Meadow Park
on Nov 5, 2009 at 8:00 am

Ostriches aren't too bright, burying their heads in the sand to avoid reality.

Reality: I agree, climate change happens, but believing we are having much, if anything, to do with it and thus trying to "stop" it by Cap and Trade reminds me of the bumper sticker I once saw

"Stop Continental Drift Now!"

That is what this is..a huge power/money grab to stop something that is out of our hands. There weren't any fossil fuels being put into the atmosphere the last warming period ( which got much warmer than our last one), nor during any of the cooling periods up to the last one that ended in the 70s ( and which we are, predictably, as usual, entering again in our usual roughly 30 year cycle).

Stop being fooled people, or you may as well support a federal power grabbing Tax and Kill employment bill to stop Continental drift.


Posted by Al Baloney, a resident of another community
on Nov 5, 2009 at 8:50 am

I know that you are deeply concerned, as I am, about the global environmental crisis and the direction in which our country has been moving. About the erosion of social capital. About the lack of respect for a very basic principle, and that is that we, as Americans, have to put ourselves and our ability to seek out the truth because we know it will make us free. The global environmental crisis is real because I say it is, proof is not required all you need is my word.

With that said I propose a new tax on all Americans to change the orbit of our earth with in our solar system to correct the flaws of man. If we change the orbit by just 0.00002 degrees we can achieve temperature nirvana.

Al Baloney

.... This makes as much since a Al Gore's cap and tax scheme.

Legalize Freedom


Posted by An Engineer, a resident of Downtown North
on Nov 5, 2009 at 10:24 am

"I believe climate change is happening, but I don't think man has a whole lot to do with it one way or the other."

Unfortunately, nature does not care what people think. Nature works on facts.

Fact: Without greenhouse gases, the earth would be a frozen ball like Mars

Fact: CO2 is a greenhouse gas

Fact: Man is injecting billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year

Fact: The earth is warming

Fact: Solar radiation is decreasing

I would like to ignore these facts and deny their implications as much as anybody but, as my hardheaded conservative upbringing taught me, facts are facts.


Posted by ten18, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2009 at 11:28 am

Fact - those billions of tons represent a minute percentage of total atmospheric CO2. It seems that the strongest correlations between man-made C02 emmissions and global warming are made by those who will profit the most from cap and tax schemes. The hype and manufactured urgency, along with more government mandates and restrictions, cause a great deal of suspicion among skeptics.


Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of Midtown
on Nov 5, 2009 at 11:34 am

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

"Tell people how their life today will be better if they play along."
That is exactly the challenge, unanswered by the Hansenites and the Gorbits. - Using the same program that predicted the 1 degree change in a century if we change nothing, factor in the difference that each lifestyle change will make in the end temperature. If quadrupling our energy cost and halving our standard of living will have no discernible improvement in the predicted output then why bother?
Engineer, you cite the temperature on Mars - Have our little solar powered rovers somehow generated the CO2 to melt the Martian polar ice cap? Tell you what - Try Cap & Trade on Mars; If it saves their ice cap, then try it here.
Ten18, ten-4, Good Buddy.


Posted by An Engineer, a resident of Downtown North
on Nov 5, 2009 at 1:56 pm

"Engineer, you cite the temperature on Mars - Have our little solar powered rovers somehow generated the CO2 to melt the Martian polar ice cap?"

You forget (or maybe don't know) that effects can have more than one cause. So, IF manmade CO2 emissions are responsible for warming on earth, and IF we just party heedlessly on, THEN we are responsible for the huge economic consequences that follow.

Follow the facts. Don't dismiss them because they're not the PC of the moment. Some people say we could have prevented WWII if we had acted at Munich. Will others say we could have prevented flooding Miami and Boston and NYC and ... if we had acted on the probable evidence instead of playing politics with the facts?

"Fact - those billions of tons represent a minute percentage of total atmospheric CO2."

It's not how much they represent, it's their net effect. Effects are not always proportional to cause. Remember how that straw broke the camel's back? It was only a minute percentage of the total camel load. As we used to observe so sagely in engineering school, the real world is not homogeneous, isotropic, and linear. It's that not linear thing that matters here.

Try this experiment. Fill a large container absolutely brim full of water, and put it on your best lacquer table with an irreplaceable photo under it (have the courage of your convictions, now). Take an eyedropper and add water drop by drop. Each drop is a minute percentage of total water in the bucket, right? Keep going until you find the nonlinearity. Educational, wasn't it?


Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of Midtown
on Nov 6, 2009 at 7:36 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

We can verify, even calculate the moment the moment the water will over-spill since we know the volume of the vessel, the height of the meniscus and can reproduce the experiment to smooth variables. All you, Hansen and Snyder have is a discredited "Hockey Stick".
As for CO2, at last reality has killed your thesis that CO2 is the most important "Greenhouse Gas". The Sept/Oct edition of Energy Efficiency & Technology magazine [www.eetweb.com] page 64, Burning fossil fuel amounts for 3.27% of the CO2 added to the atmosphere added to the atmosphere while the oceans add 41.46%. with no evidence the hat balance is metastable. the technical explanation is, if it coulda it woulda.


Posted by An Engineer, a resident of Downtown North
on Nov 9, 2009 at 5:14 pm

"We can verify, even calculate the moment the moment the water will over-spill since we know the volume of the vessel, the height of the meniscus and can reproduce the experiment to smooth variables."

Ah, but how do you predict the surface tension effects in sufficient detail? Solving the Navier-Stokes equations precisely with the proper boundary conditions? Sure, sure, show us. Won't work with a slide rule; you will need a (shudder) computer model, like Hansen's got.

The point is that a meniscus height is reached at which a sudden rupture of the surface tension membrane occurs, followed by a soaking of your prized water-sensitive possessions below as that last "insignificant" drop and hundreds of its predecessors cascade onto them. Use the proven old fashioned analog modeling approach: try it.

"at last reality has killed your thesis that CO2 is the most important "Greenhouse Gas"."

I never said it was the most important. In fact, I said there are multiple factors at work. However, CO2 is the one humans have the most control over. Remember that water jar. That last triggering drop will be far less than 3.27% of the total water in the jar.

BTW, I see you love your decimals. I understand. Lots of non-technical types confuse having more decimal places with having more information. Realistically, I suspect even the the digit to the left of the decimal in your numbers is buried in the error bar.

But that does not change the implications of nonlinear (aka runaway) systems and their outcomes. If a critical value exists, you better be ready to take the consequences if you decide to approach it.


Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Nov 11, 2009 at 4:45 pm

Al Baloney: You were hilarious!~! Thanks for the chuckle! At some point, the only way to deal with any of this is humor.

BTW, the amount of CO2 that humans contribute through technology, ( ie: not including their exhalations and other natural explosions and decay into the atmosphere) is to all the greenhouse gases what the thickness of a pencil-drawn line across the width of a football field would be to the rest of the football field.

Now tell me again how we are, therefore, responsible for destroying the world and have to add more money to Al Gore's, and other greedy profiteers, pockets? ..all while destroying more people's lives by killing their jobs or pay levels?




Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Nov 11, 2009 at 4:46 pm

Oops, forgot to add...I haven't forgotten and have only used VALERO since this thread began. Thanks for the heads up!


Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Nov 12, 2009 at 2:36 pm

Hmm..interesting...2 stories today about man made tech CO2 NOT causing global warming Web Link

And it turns out that even if we are, in fact, warming ( debatable over the last 10 years..no data to support this at all), and this is why some ice shelves have been dropping into the ocean, that melting ice is a good thing..helps absorb CO2 in the atmosphere
Web Link

And even more hilarious, there is a suggestion that in fact the melting Arctic has to do with our CLEAN AIR regs, not CO2...
Web Link

Wow...awesome consensus!!

Keep up the good work, and hurry through the job killing crap and trade bill!! Gore needs another mansion and a new jet.


Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Nov 12, 2009 at 2:37 pm

sorry..I actually didn't intend to put an "r" in Cap...as in Cap and Trade. Writing fast. Though it is kind of funny, in a Freudian slip kinda way.


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