Israeli Spies on U.S. soil prior to 9/11 Issues Beyond Palo Alto, posted by Jag Singh, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Feb 10, 2007 at 12:27 pm
A troubling new development reported by investigative reporters at Counterpunch, ABC’s 20/20, the Jewish newspaper, The Forward, and Salon.com was the presence of Israeli Secret agents on U.S. soil prior to September 11th . The five Israeli spies were reported to be living in close proximity to the hijackers.
FBI agents, who had been tracking these men, reported seeing three of them rejoicing as the first plane hit the North Tower. All five were arrested by the FBI and held for 71 days. All five consistently failed lie detector tests, but under pressure from local Israeli political support groups and the Israeli government they were released and allowed to return to Israel.
What is extremely disturbing, is that all five appeared to have had prior knowledge of the attacks and told FBI agents that the attacks were ‘good for Israel’ because they would alienate the U.S. from the Arab world. Under intense pressure, the media halted their investigations, which leaves the following questions unanswered. Why were these spies allowed to operate on US soil and subsequently released? Was critical information they had gathered deliberately withheld from U.S authorities to achieve a long standing goal to demonize the Arab world? Could this information have prevented 9/11?
"The Israeli owner of the Mossad "front" company who fled to Israel after his "movers" were caught filming the World Trade Center attacks remains at large although the FBI, which has an office in Tel Aviv, has his name on its terror suspect list.
A leaked "FBI Suspect List" circulated among financial institutions in Italy shows that Dominik Suter, the Israeli owner of Urban Moving Systems who fled in haste to Israel after 9-11, is among those suspected of being behind the terror attacks. Despite the presence of an FBI office in Tel Aviv and the "intimate relationship" between U.S. and Israeli intelligence agencies, Suter apparently remains out-of-reach and at large. "
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Feb 10, 2007 at 3:43 pm
So Osama bin Laden is really a Jew? Who knew?
If Israelis had contacted the FBI prior to 9/11 to report suspicious actions by Arabs, the reaction would have been the same as when FBI field agents sent in their suspicions - Jamie Gorlick would have told them to mind their own business and, knowing the anti-semitism of the FBI and CIA, the Israelis would likely have been arrasted for violating the civil rights of the Arabs.
Posted by Boaz, a resident of the Greater Miranda neighborhood, on Feb 10, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Well, this story at first glance goes along well with the urban myth that Jews were warned not to go to work at the WTC om 9/11, since Jews were behind the 9/11 attacks.
First of all, remember who posted the initial post in this thread and remember his history vis a vis Israel.
Now here is a cut and paste from the link that Robin posted from Democracy Now:
"CHRISTOPHER KETCHAM: Sure. Let me just preface this whole conversation just to say that the Counterpunch article does not pretend to provide readers with a definitive smoking gun for these allegations. Rather, what I’ve done is gathered all the available information on the matter. That is, the disparate media reports that you mentioned; leaked documents from FBI, CIA and the Justice Department; conversations with former intelligence officials and current FBI officers.
Now, the upshot of all this available evidence is this: the Israeli government likely was conducting some kind of spy operation on US soil in the run-up to the September 11th attacks. The purpose of the operation was to identify and track Muslim extremists, possibly including members of al-Qaeda. "
So what initially may look like inflammatory evidence to suggest that Israel had a hand in the events of 9/11 turns out to be basically rehashed much ado about nothing.
I would suggest that people look at who are making these posts and read some of their previous writings on this forum--their agendas become very evident.
Posted by SilverBullet, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Feb 10, 2007 at 10:16 pm
I've been waiting for someone to post on this. I'm glad Jag included the "dancing Israelis" aspect of it. I think all this exposes is that I'm sure there is a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that goes on where countries cooperate in intellegence gathering. We probably have US spies on foreign soil and I'm sure certain people in those governments know about it, and some don't. Big deal. Remember there were internal FBI memos that seemed to suggest something was coming, and without being able to see the whole picture, the powers-that-be ignored those warnings too, so I don't think they would have reacted differently to information that Israeli's gave them. Maybe they did tell them.
As far as the filming and rejoicing of the so-called-spies go:
I lived in Manhattan during the attack. I filmed the collapse of both towers with both still and video cameras. I am an Israel-supporting American Jewish person. What does that make me? I lived 2 miles away from the WTC, so I would have appreciated getting some of that "advance warning!" But - it never came! Crazy.
The fact that someone claims that the Israelis were dancing and rejoicing means NOTHING. Distant eyewitnesses misinterpret things all the time. Maybe they were yelling in disbelief. Who knows. I'm sick and tired of this conjecture that seems to always suggest that "The Jews are responsible for all the evil in the world."
Posted by Robin, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Feb 11, 2007 at 11:41 am
Given that 9/11 is being used as justification for attacking Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, and Iran; it's crucial that our nation examine why the 9/11 Commission failed to report on the dancing Israelis, the mysterious collapse of WTC #7, lengthy delays in scrambling jetfighters, and countless other oddities surrounding the events of that tragic day.
Watch this video of a now gravely ill NYC police officer who witnessed WTC #7 being demolished:
Posted by wolf, a resident of the Palo Verde neighborhood, on Feb 11, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Can it be that the commission's "fail[ing] to report on the dancing Israelis" was perhaps because it found that to be a lie? Naah, it must have been The Jewish Conspiracy, the same one that Jimmy Carter is now raving about. The same that countless others had mentioned over the years -- from the Tzarist Ochrana in the "Protocols" to the German Der Sturmer; from Haj Amin Al Husseini while visiting Hitler to Nasser; from Assad through Saddam to Bin Laden; from Khomeini to Ahmanijad.
Posted by Wolf, a resident of the Palo Verde neighborhood, on Feb 11, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Assuming you meant cui bono, I think the first one to benefit from such accusations are Islamic terrorists, since it deflects and diffuses their culpability. Then the Democrats and general Leftists seem to be beneficiaries, since it paints Bush as in cabal with "the Jews" and undermines "his" war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Then there are the generic antisemites that benefit from spreading such rumors against the Jews over decades and centuries.
Basically, unless you truly believe that the Jews have absolute control of the press and other media, this makes no sense for Israelis. They clearly cannot suppress it in today's variety of media, and it is not as if Israel's enemies have no resources of their own, between about the billion of them in the Middle East and Asia, and the billions of dollars they receive daily for their oil. On the other hand, spreading rumors about the Jews... what did you ask? Cui bono?
Posted by Wolf, a resident of the Palo Verde neighborhood, on Feb 11, 2007 at 4:55 pm
"Who profits from 9/11,"
Originally it was Al Qaeda -- at least that what they thought. It raised their profile, increased their recruitment (remember all these volunteers that streamed to Afghanistan?) and made them the focus of Arab adoration (remember the Palestinians dancing on the streets on hearing the 9/11 news?). Few years later, no question that many companies in the defense area are profiting from the war. Since many builders are profiting from Katerina, should we assume that the Builder's Association is behind creating hurricanes?
"[from] the cravenly sloppy 9/11 Commission Report,"
Amen here. Born in political compromise, and accepted by the administration in the same spirit. Yes, bipartisan deliberation in current-day US create many more camels than horses. Same goes or the Iraq committee couple of months back.
"and [from] our eternal War on Terror?"
Well, clearly defense and security companies benefit. As does the American public and economy which did not suffer any major terror attack since, as opposed to the Spaniard, the Brits, the Indonesians, the ...
"If American forces step back before Baghdad is secure, the Iraqi government would be overrun by extremists on all sides. We could expect an epic battle between Shia extremists backed by Iran, and Sunni extremists aided by al Qaeda and supporters of the old regime. A contagion of violence could spill out across the country -- and in time, the entire region could be drawn into the conflict.
For America, this is a nightmare scenario. For the enemy, this is the objective. Chaos is the greatest ally -- their greatest ally in this struggle. And out of chaos in Iraq would emerge an emboldened enemy with new safe havens, new recruits, new resources, and an even greater determination to harm America. To allow this to happen would be to ignore the lessons of September the 11th and invite tragedy. Ladies and gentlemen, nothing is more important at this moment in our history than for America to succeed in the Middle East, to succeed in Iraq and to spare the American people from this danger."
Gee, suddenly the picture doesn't look so rosy. And this is GWB talking.
Once again: How is USA or Islam or Al Qaeda profitting from the misdeeds of 9/11?
Posted by SilverBullet, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Feb 11, 2007 at 5:56 pm
All of these myths have been THOUROUGHLY debunked! Enjoy this story: Web Link The motivation behind the spreading of these rumors and half-truths is the same that drove and continues to drive the supposed "protocols of the elders of zion." Paint the Jews as the evil backstabbers working behind the scenes to cause all the evil in the world. Then, angry people buy into it, and the cycle of anti-semitism continues for another generation.
"... the March 2005 issue of Popular Mechanics plumbs new depths of nepotism and Hearst-style "yellow journalism" with its cover story about 9/11. PM's senior researcher, 25-year-old Benjamin Chertoff, authored a propagandistic cover story entitled "Debunking 9/11 Lies" which seeks to discredit all independent 9/11 research that challenges the official version of events.
But who is Benjamin Chertoff, the "senior researcher" at Popular Mechanics who is behind the article? American Free Press has learned that he is none other than a cousin of Michael Chertoff, the new Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.
This means that Hearst paid Benjamin Chertoff to write an article supporting the seriously flawed explanation that is based on a practically non-existent investigation of the terror event that directly led to the creation of the massive national security department his "cousin" now heads. This is exactly the kind of "journalism" one would expect to find in a dictatorship like that of Saddam Hussein's Iraq.
Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond to repeated calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's "senior researcher," directly.
Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he was related to Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable about discussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article should be put to the publicist – the one who never answers the phone.
Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes, of course, he is a cousin."
Posted by Robin, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Feb 11, 2007 at 7:04 pm
And now we come full circle to Michael Chertoff and his activities surrounding 9/11 and the dancing Israelis:
"During the period before and after the terror attacks of September 11, 2001, Chertoff headed the criminal division at the Department of Justice where he "helped trace the 9/11 terrorist attacks to the al-Qaida network."
Chertoff became Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, by a vote of 95-1 on May 24, 2001. The dissenting vote came from Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (D – N.Y.).
In this position Chertoff was architect of some of the most controversial elements of the Bush administration's domestic war on terrorism and played a central role in formulating the Bush administration's "anti-terrorism policy." He defended the administration's decisions to hold military tribunals for non-U.S. suspect terrorists and to monitor phone conversations between attorneys and their clients.
Chertoff oversaw the detention of 762 foreign nationals for minor immigration violations, although none was charged with a terrorism-related crime. The detention of hundreds of people was necessary to detect "sleeper cells" of terrorists, he said.
"Chertoff headed the Justice Department's criminal division when hundreds of foreigners were swept up on minor charges and held for an average of 80 days," The Washington Post reported. "Some detainees were denied their right to see a lawyer, were not told of the charges against them, or were physically abused."
At the same time, Chertoff allowed scores of suspected Israeli terrorists and spies to quietly return to Israel. In several cases, Israeli suspects working for phoney moving companies, such as Urban Moving Systems from Weehawken, N.J., were caught driving moving vans which tested positive for explosives. On September 14, Dominic Suter, the owner of the moving company, which was found to be a Mossad front company, fled to Israel after FBI agents requested a second interview.
One group of 5 Israelis was seen on the roof of Urban Moving Systems videotaping and celebrating the destruction of the World Trade Center. These Israeli agents were returned to Israel on visa violations.
These Israeli suspects, and others, who had apparently transported explosives in the New York area, were allowed to return to Israel without being properly interrogated or their presence and activities in the United States having been vigorously investigated."
Posted by SilverBullet, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Feb 11, 2007 at 8:48 pm
So what's your ultimate point? Did Israel cause 9/11 or simply know about it and allow it to happen? Why would they do that? So we would attack Iraq for them? In my humble opinion, all of the stuff you've quoted has the general flavor of the same old accusations of Jewish conspiracies. There's never any hard evidence - just alot of circumstancial stuff. If Chertoff (a Jew) is in on it, and certainly Paul Wolfowitz (a Jew) is in on it, what other prominent Jews were in on it? Daniel Pearl maybe? I fell like an outcast, because I never got the memo! Maybe I forgot to send in my monthy contribution to the Mossad. If the US government was cunning enough to allow 9/11 to happen, why wouldn't they just plant WMD's in Iraq, making themselvs look like international heroes instead of villains? Please, spew all the 9/11 and "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" conspiracies out there you want, but don't expect people to stand by silently.
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Feb 11, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Go the the archives of Engineering News Record for an exhaustive professional examination of the reasons for the collapse of the towers and building 7.
The only thing they go soft on is the likelyhood that the abandonment of sprayed asbestos fireproofing on structural steel and the substitution of an untried substitute that did not adhere to the steel was the reason for the poorer performance of the structure,
The reason Israel does not want an alliance with the United States is not secret - they have always said they will not ask Americans to die in defense of Israeli liberty.
Posted by A PBS listener, a resident of the Charleston Meadows neighborhood, on Feb 11, 2007 at 10:30 pm
I heard Henery Kissenger say many months ago on a PBS radio station that we had to go to war with Iraq because they were giving money to Palestian families of Terrorists were killing "My People"! The issue of WMD's not existing was irrelevant he said. This isn' a quote ,but it what I remember hearing and it was shocking and it shows to me he is more loyal to and a agent of Israel than to the U.S.A. and American citizens are fighting that war for the benifit of the Zionists.. By my people he meant the Zionist's I presume. When it was disclosed he was having what were secret meetings with the Prisident all along it sort of confirms this. I'm sure OIL played a big issue also and a desire to build permanant military bases in the region to protect Israel and the oil fields and Exxon, etc.
Posted by Wolf, a resident of the Palo Verde neighborhood, on Feb 11, 2007 at 11:01 pm
"I heard Henery Kissenger say many months ago on a PBS ..." -- can you substantiate that, other than "I heard..."? Most PBS stations have audio archives, sometimes transcripts too. This sounds like urban legend BS, and surely is. It not only assumes that Kissinger is a disloyal American, but also that he is a fool enough to voice it aloud. Typical "Jewish Conspiracy" garbage.
"I'm sure OIL played a big issue" -- I am sure it did. Those humongous oil reserves in the Jewish Saudi Arabia, Jewish Kuwait, Jewish Iraq, Jewish Iran... What do you mean they are not Jewish? They MUST be Jewish! Trust me!
Against stupidity, the gods themselves content in vain.
Posted by SilverBullet, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Feb 12, 2007 at 10:03 am
Well thanks for that! At least we know where you are coming from. I encourage anyone reading this to "Google" Kevin Macdonald. I find it illuminating that he has quite a following among white supremacy groups!
Posted by Robin, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Feb 12, 2007 at 11:01 am
The world according to the above poster:
"As for [Israel's] 30:1 kill ratio--I am quite proud of that--it shows the restraint that Israel has shown--the kill ration should be more like 100-200:1. AS long as they continue to try to destroy Israel, the Palestinian body count will be much higher than Israel and that is the way it should be until they learn to accept Israel and peace."