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California Voters Voice Outrage

Original post made by Sharon on May 20, 2009



The results are finalized in California, and taxpayers finally took a stand.
Propositions 1A through 1E were soundly defeated last night.

Proponents of the measure, backed by teachers unions, spent $30 million to ensure its passage.
They outspent those opposed 10 to 1.

California taxpayers did the right thing yesterday.
They sent a loud-and-clear message to Schwarzenegger and the legislature. Public hearings on how to fix the budget begin on Thursday.

Grab some popcorn — this is going to get very interesting.Web Link

Comments (37)

Posted by FED-UP!, a resident of Old Palo Alto
on May 20, 2009 at 10:11 am

Problem?

Solution: Start here: Web Link
Line them all up and FIRE every third person.

Problem solved.


Posted by Ungovernable, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on May 20, 2009 at 12:17 pm

The full impact of the idiocy of direct democracy will soon be felt by much of the state.

The Economist is right. The California constitution must be totally rewritten.

Web Link


Posted by OhlonePar, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on May 20, 2009 at 12:23 pm

Ungovernable,

Thanks for the link--it sums up the ongoing disaster nicely.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on May 20, 2009 at 1:18 pm



With the highest income taxes, highest sales taxes, and biggest deficits, Californians finally said "no mas," and let the cutting begin.
Of course, we have expanded government to such a degree that "radical" cuts will only get us back to about 2005-sized government, and "tax cutting" in this loopy state will mean holding firm at a 9% sales tax and 10%-plus income tax.
But one must begin somewhere.


Posted by McGrude, a resident of College Terrace
on May 20, 2009 at 2:59 pm

How about we totally legalize marijuana and then tax it? I'm sure our budget would be balanced in months.


Posted by John, a resident of College Terrace
on May 20, 2009 at 3:30 pm

California has been building to this point for decades. Massive illegal immigration and a huge resulting underclass, lack of economic infrastructure development (e.g. nuclear power), high taxation driving business away, a less competitive industrial base, teacher unions controlling education reforms (e.g. opposed to educational vouchers), propositions that mandate small class size (thus higher education costs), long prison sentences and much more. The operative notion of government in California is: Always design more programs and social services, then we will try to figure a way to pay for it down the road. This is not fundamentally different than subprime loans on houses...they work, as long as the bubble continues to expand, but when it contracts it is a disaster. The bubble has popped in California, and it will be decades before it gets repaired.

We don't need a new spender-friendly California constitution. We just need to say NO to new programs that cost money, unless they displace other programs of a lower priority.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on May 20, 2009 at 4:05 pm


Hopefully what started yesterday will spread north and east rapidly.
California voters resoundingly rejected Proposition 1A by a 66-34 margin. It is pretty clear that after enduring at $12.8 billion tax increase earlier this year,
California taxpayers did not want to see their taxes raised by another $16 billion, especially when all they were receiving in return was a spending limit of dubious value.

Worthwhile solutions to Californias budget crisis probably will not be coming from the California state legislature.
Gerrymandered districts all but guarantee that Democrats will control both chambers of the state legislature for years to come.
However, Proposition 13's supermajority requirement for tax increases gives Assembly Republicans an effective veto over any proposals to hike taxes.


Posted by Mineral, a resident of Fairmeadow
on May 20, 2009 at 4:17 pm

That Economist article was really good, though I don't think they were advocating a new constitution. I think they were merely saying that it was one of 2 options - gradual change, or start from scratch. I think the idea of a "jury pool" is sort of an interesting one. I just don't know what legal mechanism there is to accomplish this. Imagine the years of state and possibly federal court battles to follow.
We can't keep going like this even if we wanted to.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on May 20, 2009 at 7:16 pm

"The Golden State:
Only the Eight Most Liberal Counties in California Voted in Favor of Higher Taxes

This is on Prop 1-A, the main tax-increase proposition.

Wait, did I say the eight most liberal counties voted in favor of increased taxes? I miscounted. The actual number is five.

Wait, I'm still overcounting. The actual number is zero."Web Link


Posted by Outside Observer, a resident of another community
on May 20, 2009 at 9:39 pm

There is one thing Schwarzeneggar threatened I hope he follows up on.

Deporting illegals aliens in our prisons.

Why should taxpayers spend 40+k/year/person, and the costs of endless appeals to host people who shouldn't be here in the first place?

Mexico doesn't want them back... oh well, Mexico didn't want them in the first place, and that's why they are here. Sorry, no sympathy for Mexico, but perhaps we can pay a small, say, $250 "repatriation benefit" to the narco gangs....err, Mexican Police, and they can make sure they never commit a crime in Mexico or anywhere else ever again.

Mexicans do the manual labor we are unwilling to do. Perhaps they can do the social engineering we are unwilling to do.


Posted by Nora Charles, a resident of Stanford
on May 21, 2009 at 12:25 am

Thanks for posting this, Sharon. It's great to finally see the state vote sensibly!

I completely agree, Outside Observer, well said.


Posted by liberty, a resident of Downtown North
on May 21, 2009 at 9:50 am

The idea of a constitutional convention sounds great until you realize they just want to open up the constitution so they can make it easier to raise taxes. They have no intention of actually solving these problems, they just want to figure out how to keep spending our money. ..And this darn constitution keeps getting in their way..


Posted by Brittanicus, a resident of Ventura
on May 21, 2009 at 9:54 am

SOMETIME THIS YEAR--THE PEOPLE--will be fight against another Immigration reform package? AMNESTY! Don't listen to the politicians who state our borders are secure or that our fence has been completed. It's a sordid lie, rhetoric! We have a drug war going on, that's infiltrated our border cities and towns, even to the extent of extending into communities nationwide. Our country is under assault of illegal foreign nationals who are committing, murders, rapes, home invasion robberies, burglaries and an ongoing battle against drunk while driving foreigners, using their uninsured vehicles as killing machine. The drug dealers and mass illegal immigration is just part of our national problem?



In Sanctuary cities and states such as California the very economy is under attack, because of the utter contempt of the Liberal Sacramento assembly for unceasingly giving of welfare benefits to illegal alien families. Schools cramped to the hilt, with the children of poor illegal immigrants. The Welfare lines that have been compromised by dishonesty and theft from true Americans. Prisons and jails deleted of funds. State budgets that are on the edge of financial disaster, because decades of political parties have pandered to the parasitic business world.



We have our own workforce that can be trained for any kind of job, instead of importing more and more foreign nationals. The greed of corporate world is just manifest in America, to undermine the working conditions of US WORKERS. Citizens and legal residents already here should not have to compete with more imported labor, no matter what successful rung of industry. In the British Isles the working class is turning to (BNP) THE BRITISH NATION PARTY that will end forced immigration laws dictated to the indigenous English people. Read about the growing, all encompassing membership of ordinary people who are sick and tired of growing occupation of an infestation of Middle Easterners, Commonwealth people, Asylum seekers, refugees that are being catered to, while the real British people are being ignored.



These foreigners are demanding their laws be enacted, including multiple wife's and Sharia law. It's disgusting and outrageous and the British parliament has used scare tactics, propaganda, as they are running scared knowing the Labor/Conservative and generic political parties may have seen their final days. Their Slogan says it all," British jobs for British Workers." Learn more at Web Link about this people's party that will remain undisclosed by the Liberal/Socialist media in the US.

In Los Angeles the law has been circumvented to allow illegal alien criminals walk away free. Murders by gang bangers are rife in Los Angeles and San Francisco, where many illegal alien criminals still walk the streets, collecting fraudulent welfare using bogus documents. Another AMNESTY means--CHAIN MIGRATION--of poor uneducated, non-English speaking, sick, handicapped family members, that Federal mandates have imposed on US taxpayers. Another Amnesty means more foreign nationals will come bringing their unpalatable customs, contagious diseases and criminal element, all to cater for predatory businesses.



Any politicians, who are in collusion and keep pushing for another AMNESTY, must be extracted from office. Sen. Harry Reid eviscerated E-Verify, along with Pelosi. Sen. Feinstein who reintroduced the AGJOB act. Liberal Sen. Cedilla who wants drivers licenses for law breakers. These lawmakers are just the tip of the corrupt lawmakers. Remove them all--BEFORE IT"S TO LATE. Or just keep on paying higher and higher taxes to support the millions of illegal immigrants. Read the truth at JUDICIALWATCH, NUMBERSUSA, and CAPSWEB.


Posted by Responsible Adult, a resident of Midtown
on May 21, 2009 at 10:49 am

LEGALIZE MARIJUANA. Treat it like alcohol plain and simple.

I'm so sick of the Gateway Drug Argument. Alcohol is the ULTIMATE GATEWAY DRUG. It's probably 90% of people's first buzz. And if they like it, the want more. None of my successful friends that smoke got into heavy drugs like coke.

Once it's legal it will be exciting for the first 3 months. After that, the people who smoke now, will probably smoke the same amount. And the people who won't, simply won't. Not much will change.

And if treated like alcohol. Kids will have as much access to it as a 6 pack of beer.

So legalize it. And to the folks that say NO and that have never done it, what right do they have to judge it?

The only reason that it's bad for society is because there's a black market that creates crime.


Posted by FED-UP, a resident of University South
on May 21, 2009 at 12:12 pm

Shall we direct all the prison inmates to set up camp in your front yard?


Posted by Kate, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on May 21, 2009 at 12:14 pm

One of the first things that has to go is the Federal citizenship law that says that anyone born in the USA is automatically a citizen. This law was enacted years ago by a bleeding heart Congress. Get the stats from San Diego, Merced, Los Angeles, Riverside, and Orange Counties. Hospitals and ER's in those counties are overwhelmed, and they can't ask who is legal and illegal. Now those children of illegal immigrants are giving birth - many babies. A huge % of these babies go on MediCal, clog our schools, get welfare. Check out the stats in those and OUR counties for high school drops outs due to pregnancies. " Ask France, ask England. Now the USA. Our hospitals are not allowed to ask re: citizenship.

We have heard of people who brought their parents to live here - and with MediCal and other benefits, they make more than some people born here and on Social Security. When I went to sign up for Social Security, I was the ONLY person in the waiting room who did not need an interpreter. Go figure. "A country with no borders is No country".


Posted by Concerned, a resident of Evergreen Park
on May 21, 2009 at 1:04 pm

I am concerned about the high volume of prejudice and inaccurate statements that I read above. Unless you are a native American, we are all immigrants or are children of immigrants. It is of no help to anyone to try to polarize our problems into an "US and THEM" issue.
I also voted no on all the propositions, BUT not because I want less taxes, rather because these propositions would not have solved our problems. We WILL have to pay higher taxes if we want to get ourselves out of this mess and still have the services that we have asked for. Sure, there are some places where cuts can be made, but be careful what you wish for or you may see some cuts that don't make you as happy as you thought or keep your property as highly valued as you would like.
The same goes for wishing for all those immigrants to go away so all of "us" can get jobs. No reasonable evaluation of our society believes that this will be true. Be careful when people use the scare tactic of "amnesty" as the "end of the world as we know it". There are several fair and meaningful ways to put millions of people on the path to legal residency and citizenship where they can be productive contributors of making our society better than it is now.
A little kindness and understanding along with refusing to give credence to the fear crowd will go a long way toward helping my grandchildren, and yours, experience a world of equality where ALL are valued! Peace!!!


Posted by chris, a resident of University South
on May 21, 2009 at 1:06 pm

If you got business on board, you might have a better chance to get the changes you want implemented. Have you heard any high-profile business campaign on this issue?


Posted by chris, a resident of University South
on May 21, 2009 at 1:08 pm

Tom Campbell's solution is to cut state salaries 15% and implement a 32 cent/gallon gas tax.


Posted by Constitution, a resident of Barron Park
on May 21, 2009 at 1:09 pm

"One of the first things that has to go is the Federal citizenship law that says that anyone born in the USA is automatically a citizen. This law was enacted years ago by a bleeding heart Congress."

You mean the 14th Amendment in 1868?


Posted by Concerned, a resident of Evergreen Park
on May 21, 2009 at 1:27 pm

Thanks for mentioning the 14th amendment. It is amazing what a little correction can do to eliminate some of the ways in which people try to slant things to support their prejudices.


Posted by Kate, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on May 21, 2009 at 1:33 pm

I should have said "born to illegal immigrants'.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on May 21, 2009 at 1:47 pm

NYT

Here is Japans solution for unemployed legal immigrants, imagine what they do with illegal immigrants.


Japan Pays Foreign Workers to Go Home Web Link

"Under the emergency program, introduced this month, the country's Brazilian and other Latin American guest workers are offered $3,000 toward air fare, plus $2,000 for each dependent — attractive lump sums for many immigrants here.
Workers who leave have been told they can pocket any amount left over.

But those who travel home on Japan's dime will not be allowed to reapply for a work visa.
Stripped of that status, most would find it all but impossible to return.
They could come back on three-month tourist visas.
Or, if they became doctors or bankers or held certain other positions, and had a company sponsor, they could apply for professional visas."

We probably do not need more bankers here but we should encourage young professionals like doctors, engineers, scientists etc to come here from Europe to boost our economy and fund our retirement.


Posted by Bob, a resident of Palo Alto Hills
on May 21, 2009 at 1:50 pm

I've got no particular brief on whether a child of illegal immigrants should automatically be a citizen of the US, but some on here clearly are operating above their pay grade on the subject of the Fourteenth Amendment and citizenship.

While it is assumed by many - especially those with an axe to grind - that the Fourteenth Amendment confers citizenship on everyone born in the US, the Supreme Court never has ruled on the issue.

In fact, the most commonly relied upon legal authority for the proposition that all children - including children of illegal immigrants - are citizens is not the Fourteenth Amendment or the Constitution at all, but rather a 1965 immigration statute.

Opponents of illegal immigration cite the Congressional Record from the time of the Fourteenth Amendment and several cases from the late Nineteenth Century as arguments that the Amendment never was meant to confer citizenship on children of illegals.

Constitutional Lawyers come down on both sides of the issue, but unless and until it's tested in the Supreme Court, we really don't know the answer. This test is unlikely to happen as long as the 1965 law remains on the books allowing the courts to decide the citizenship issue without resort to the Constitution.

Maybe people should stick to their opinions on immigration and leave Constitutional theorizing to people who know what they're talking about.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on May 21, 2009 at 2:00 pm


The Japanese government does not think much of our immigration policy.

From the NYT article I linked to above.

"Mr. Kawasaki said the economic slump was a good opportunity to overhaul Japan's immigration policy as a whole.

"We should stop letting unskilled laborers into Japan. We should make sure that even the three-K jobs are paid well, and that they are filled by Japanese," he said. "I do not think that Japan should ever become a multiethnic society."

He said the United States had been "a failure on the immigration front," and cited extreme income inequalities between rich Americans and poor immigrants.

At the packed town hall meeting in Hamamatsu, immigrants voiced disbelief that they would be barred from returning. Angry members of the audience converged on officials. Others walked out of the meeting room.

"Are you saying even our children will not be able to come back?" one man shouted.

"That is correct, they will not be able to come back," a local labor official, Masahiro Watai, answered calmly.


Posted by lindy, a resident of Ventura
on May 21, 2009 at 2:11 pm

When will people wake up and realize that prop. 13 destroyed the state 30 years ago. Pro 13 is unconstitutional but no one wants to touch it. First: It is unconstitutional to tax two people in the same size house in the same neighborhood at a drastically different rate. Second: The 2% per year maximum increase in property tax is less than half of inflation, and after 30 years we are drastically in the hole. Third: The manditory two-thirds vote to raise or increase any tax proposal makes it impossible to increase taxes for any reason. It is virtually impossible to get a two-thirds majority on anything, let alone taxes. Fourth: The state has been switching the cost burden of our schools, our police, and our firefighters over to income tax and sales tax and anything else that they can do to keep us aflote, but after 30 years of this, we are screwed.

Our overall tax burden per capita is 8th in the nation yet our income per capita is 3. So, all of these right-wing blowholes that say we are the most taxed state in the country are full of it. Go look it up. These records are on the internet and they are not pulled out of someone's rectum, they are actual accounting numbers.

Wake up. Your destroying the state and your too stupid to realize it.


Posted by David, a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on May 21, 2009 at 2:18 pm

I don't think the Japanese are very good role models on immigration. They are painfully racist. It was only 60-years ago that they were planning on conquering the world, and were willing to enslave every individual of different creed or color that stood in the way. Perhaps a little peak at the Japanese atrocities against the Chinese during the war would be helpful.

Any foreigner that expects the Japanese to treat them well is highly misguided and delusional. Go earn some money in Japan if you want to, but don't think that you will ever be (or treated as) Japanese.

I will also remind you that Hitler believed he would conquer the US because the US was weak due to our multicultural heritage. That didn't work out very well for him, did it.

There are some in every generation that try to villify the "them", whether the "them" is Japanese, Irish, Black, Jew or Mexican. Resist the foolishness.

I do not favor illegal immigration, and it could be stopped almost instantly if individuals and companies that hired illegals were punished. How many state legislators have legal nannies, cooks, housecleaners, landscapers? It is next to impossible to hire such people. HOWEVER, I do not blame the poor workers that come here - I blame the employers that lure and pay them.


Posted by Rob916, a resident of Fairmeadow
on May 21, 2009 at 2:18 pm

There was a time when I would have agreed with Ungovernable but that has long passed. It seems the only answers our current group of legislators, along with our governor, have for any problem is to raise taxes. It's time to take a very hard look at the waste in government spending in the state, make some meaningful long-term changes, and if a change in the constitution is made, to make it impossible to go back to our fiscally profligate ways.


Posted by Bob, a resident of Palo Alto Hills
on May 21, 2009 at 2:32 pm

It looks like in lindy, we have another Constitutional Expert who doesn't know what he/she is talking about. In fact the Constitutionality of Proposition 13 was tested and decided almost immediately after it was passed. (The case was Amador Valley Joint Union High School District v. State Board of Equalization.) They court specifically ruled on the Equal Protection argument lindy asserts, and found Prop 13 did not violate the Constitution.

Perhaps lindy should stick to his/he opinions on taxes and leave the Constitution alone also.

Also lindy says we're the 8th most taxed state. (Some websites say we're 6th, some 4th.) Whatever figures you use, 4th, 6th or 8th it's hard to say we're undertaxed. But that's just an opinion.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on May 21, 2009 at 3:25 pm

Looks like we are on our own and the governor says we have to dial back to 1999 in terms of state spending

"In an interview today, David Axelrod, a senior advisor to President Obama, voiced concerns that if the federal government steps in and provides special assistance to California to help ease the financial crunch, it could open the door to other struggling states wanting federal help.

Asked if the Obama administration would support a bill authorizing federal loan guarantees to California,
Axelrod said: "Look, we're going to examine what we can do.
What we need to do, however, is to treat states fairly and that means uniformly.
Whatever we do for one state, there will be other states who also will want to do that.
And there's a limit to what the government can do."

Asked if federal intervention on California's behalf would set a dangerous precedent,
Axelrod said "There's no doubt that there are states all over this country who have problems -- not problems the size of California -- but significant problems.
And every governor in the country wants and needs assistance. . . . there's a limit to what we can do."Web Link

Limit? Limit? what does he mean by that?


Posted by Ungovernable, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on May 21, 2009 at 4:17 pm

Nonsense Bob.
The constitutionality of Prop 13 has never been established.
Macy's got SCOTUS to hear the case, but wimped out in reponse to a boycott.

Web Link

Web Link


Posted by Bob, a resident of Palo Alto Hills
on May 21, 2009 at 5:13 pm

Ungovernable is another Constitutional Law expert who is operating way above his pay grade.

After the California Supreme Court ruled that Proposition 13 did not violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment in the Amador case cited in my previous post, the US Supreme Court ruled on the same case in Nordlinger v Hahn. (Web Link) The decision to uphold Prop 13, specifically on Equal Protection Grounds, was 8 to 1.

I hope if we have a Constitutional Convention, as Ungovernable wishes, that people with a little more knowledge of Constitutional Law than he/she has are involved.


Posted by Ungovernable, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on May 21, 2009 at 5:46 pm

Bob:
Thanks for the cite.
I'm happy to see you own the right Gilbert's


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on May 21, 2009 at 5:57 pm


"The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure Schwarzenegger and his Democratic allies really believed their now-defeated propositions would stabilize the state budget.
Living in the Sacramento cocoon, they simply cannot see drastic reductions in state government as something that can or should be done.

Meanwhile, outside Sacramento, awash in the state's worst economy in 70 years, Californians are cutting back, doing without and spending less.
So when budget-crunched voters are asked to pay the highest taxes in the nation by politicians unwilling to put the government on a diet, the response is a resounding "no!" that cuts across California's geographic and partisan divides.

California political leaders displayed the same tone deafness before the passage of the landmark Proposition 13.
–Now we'll see if their current obdurateness yields similar results."Web Link


Posted by Bill Hoppy Haupt, a resident of Downtown North
on May 22, 2009 at 5:26 pm

No duobt about it! Finally somebody woke up in this state. It is about time, but, to little to late. The damage has been done by the far left that has controled this state for the past 5 decades. Now they are doing the same exact thing to our coutnry. What starts in Califnoria makes it's way to Washington in the name of Pelosi! They should fire all of them in Califroina and replace them with some good old boys who know how to make a budget and stick with it. Get rid of the teachers union and you would make a huge dent in the budget. The state unions have ruined this state and there is no hope for it. Blaming prop 13 is a joke! Califonria already has the highest taxes in the nation and they want to make them higher!? Give me a break!
A loser by any other name is still a loser!


Posted by Rob Garson, a resident of Charleston Meadows
on May 22, 2009 at 8:33 pm

This guy says it like it is. Democrats have controled our state for the last 100 years and look at what has happened to it. The same thing is happening in Washington right before our very eyes! And yet next election the people of this state and our nation will continue to elect a bunch of far left tax and spend Democrats because they say nice things to them. Why don't we like to hear the truth once in awhile? Why is this state and this coutnry in such bad shape and the Democrats have controlled both the Feds and California for most of these years? It is time to put constitutional conservaives back in charge of our governments!


Posted by James, a resident of Barron Park School
on May 23, 2009 at 9:07 am

The amount of money they are spending in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan could easily solve California's budget shortfall. 9/11 was 7 1/2 years ago. I hated it to the core also, but in a nation of 305 million people; can we base our Nation's policy on a war on EVERYBODY in the world's "terror" for 3000 casualties? The nation can not afford it. 53 Billion in aid to Israel? If you don't like it give me your solution with the dollars and cent figures. If California has to cut its budget, why can't they?
2 of the 3 autocompanies are going down for restructuring? Is anyone paying attention.


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