Town Square

Post a New Topic

'Israel doesn't take orders from Obama,' minister Erdan says

Original post made by samuel on Apr 6, 2009


Erdan, who is in charge of coordinating between the Knesset and the cabinet, also praised Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, who only last week said that Israel was not bound by the Annapolis talks. Web Link


With friends like these?

Obama is in the middle of his foreign policy push, why is he being sabotaged?

Comments (53)

Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 6, 2009 at 12:51 pm

Samuel--we know your point of view and where you are coming from with your posts. Do you know of any foreign leader that "takes orders" from Obama?
Israel is not bound by the Annapolis talks because they have no partners in negotiation--Hamas is bent on destroying Israel and does not want peace. Hamas cannot be trusted and it is clear that they did not learn their lessons from the December offensive.
Hamas are garbage and must be eradicated from the world.


Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 1:19 pm

The only "foreign policy push" I see from Obama is one that deletes the free-world defense ( who needs defense against an emerging Russian Bear, N. Korea or Iran?), and promotes the build up of defense systems of the enemies of liberty ( Iran, N. Korea). Anyone else hear today of how Obama is "considering" going against the UN and approving of a Nuclear Reactor in Iran?

But hey, as long as he speaks pretty and gets applause from socialist and appeasers around the world, I guess we are very happy to have a repeat of Chamberlain. ( No accident Obama hid away the statue of Churchill that England gave the Office of the POTUS).

For those of you who don't understand the damage Chamberlain and his ilk did to the world, google Chamberlain and appeasement.

Or, if you prefer a gentler approach, watch the quite realistic 5 star movie called "Remains of the Day". Amazing parrallels between 1938-40 and now and Obama.


Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 1:30 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

How many more Israelis and Palestinians will die because of the foolish US insistence on the chimera of a negotiated peace? Starting with Ike's foolish siding with Egypt in the Suez war, we have continued to apply an asymmetric rule book to the Middle East. Compare the "defeat" of Germany in WWI with WWII.


Posted by samuel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 6, 2009 at 1:42 pm



In fact Mitchel was very effective in achieving peace in N Ireland and this peace is sustained.

It was an American sponsored initiative in which the British the Irish and the IRA took direction from the US, orders if you will.

The situation in the Holyland is just like the situation was in N Ireland.--a longstanding tribal/religious dispute with atrocities commited by both sides.

We give Israel $Billions in hanouts every year.
If they want to continue to get handouts they had better do what they are told and smartly.


Of course Israel is free to give the handouts back, then they can do whatever they want.
American interests at this point is best served by spending that money at home and leaving the parties in the Holylands tribal/religious dispute to their own devices.

Until they come to heal


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 6, 2009 at 1:51 pm

Boy, Samuel, your words are exactly the same as those written by Sharon from Midtown in other threads on this forum. Is it plagarism or are you one and the same?


Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 2:25 pm

What is more astonishing is that Samuel actually seems to think it is an accurate statement to say that Israel vs. Hamas/Hebollah etc is the same as in N. Ireland.

Truly astonishing. Comparing 2 factions of the same religion, Christianity, fighting over which one will rule over the other, with neither group supported by/funded by/armed by a nation state, and neither calling for the annhiliation of the other, in an area which had nothing to do with a UN type allocation of land, ....

to a UN-type sanctioned creation of a nation, whereby the nation gave the choice to all non-Jewish inhabitants to stay in the borders and become full citizens, as long as they didn't fight against the Jews, and has ever since been surrounded by many nations and over 60 million people who are commmitted to its' annhilation, and who are taught from infancy that Jews came from pigs and monkeys, killed Mickey Mouse's parents, and drink the blood of Muslim babies..

yes, indeed, the parrallels are obvious.


Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 2:28 pm

And certainly, never let it be said that the USA will come to the defense of a democracy or an underdog against tyranny and oppression! I would hate to be the same as the country which stopped the genocide of Muslims in the Serbo-Croatian "conflict". ( oh wait..that was us, wasn't it?) Or stopped the continuing genocide of Shia Muslims in Iraq by removing a brutal dicatator..( oh wait, that was us again, wasn't it?)


Posted by Just Askin', a resident of Stanford
on Apr 6, 2009 at 2:40 pm


Gosh, isn't it odd to worry about Hamas when it's the Israelis who have pretty well destroyed Palestine?


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 6, 2009 at 2:47 pm

Just Askin''--It's Hamas that pretty well destroyed Palestine. Israel pulled out of Gaza, left greenhouses and infrastructure intact for the locals to start making a living--Hamas made sure all that infrastructure was destroyed. Hamas shelled Israel on a daily basis--Israel sat by patiently for years, then in December took action--turning Gaza into rubble. Hamas and Gaza got what they deserved and asked for. The so-called "suffering" of the people of Gaza was self-inflicted.
Anyway, the West Bank seems to be doing okay, relative to Gaza.
Of course there are occasional issues,like the International Solidarity Movement trying to stir up trouble, but the Israeli army almost took the head off of one of them with a tear gas cannister, and they have crawled back into their sewers.


Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 2:53 pm

Before the Israelis started bringing irrigation to "Palestine" ( as you now call it), bringing in functional farms to an arid wasteland, "Palestine" did not have anything to destroy.

Then, after the Israelis started buying land from the residents, who happily took the money and moved, and started building up various areas into functioning and self-sustaining villages, there was more to destroy.

Then, after the "palestinians" ( again, a new designation, not one used at any time before now) began to notice how much better life was with the Israelis bringin forth water and food and modern technologies, they started gathering in the same areas as the Israelis.

Then, once the League of Nations chose that area for the nation of refuge of the Jews, and the "palestinians" saw that the surrounding countries were gathering for war to take over the area and annhilate the Jews, they had to choose which side to be on. Do they stay on the side of their friends and neighbors? Or do they flee and let their brethren wipe out the Jews, and take over all that the Jews had brought to the land?

Many good people who knew their neighbors and saw what kind of life lay in front of them if they stayed..stayed.

Many others left, believing the promises of the surrounding countries that they would soon be free to take over their neighbors goods.

Somehow, the 250,000 Muslims who fled simply couldn't be accomodated into any of the surrounding countries, forced to stay in refugee camps surrounding Israel, to be used as pawns of propoganda and human shields.

But, somehow, the 250,000 Jews who were expelled with nothing but what they could carry from the surrounding areas, well...somehow Israel managed to absorb that number into their tiny little country, AND remain friends and neighbors with the remaining Muslims inside their borders.

Odd, isn't it, to not remember this history when claiming that Israelis have destroyed "Palestine"???


Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 2:53 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

The money we give Israel is not a gift, it is contractual compensation for the land Israel gave back to Egypt, land honorably won in repelling a war of aggression. We match that with an equal sum to Egypt. Israel would have been better of had she retained those buffer areas and deported all those who made war against her.

Justy, Jordan stole Palestine and Palestine destroyed Gaza.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 3:08 pm

George John MitchellWeb Link is a good choice as special envoy to the Middle East but he will have his work cut out for him.
Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman will soon be in prison, where he belongs, for a long, long time. This will make Mitchells job easier, but he will ultimately have to use the power of the purse strings to get compliance from Israel.
Michelle self identifies as an Arab American, his mother was from Lebanon, so that gives him more credibility as a honest broker-- I wish him luck.
Making statements trashing Obamas peace initiatives while he is in Turkey is stuck on stupid by the Israeli politician, it will backfire big time, many people have run out of patience.
It is in our best interest to secure the goodwill of reasonable Muslims so that we can isolate the fanatics and we also need to isolate racist fanatics like Lieberman, he will soon be disgraced and in jail----good riddance.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 6, 2009 at 3:25 pm

Want to bet that Lieberman does not go to jail, Sharon?
Are you at your other computer now, Samuel?


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 3:41 pm

Lieberman will not last long

He has sordid history--Web Link

Kach Membership

On the eve of the 2009 elections Haaretz wrote that Lieberman was involved with the Kach (Hebrew: כ"ך‎) party of Rabbi Meir Kahane shortly after his immigration to Israel in 1979. The membership claims were based on the testimony of two activists in the movement, Elazar Eskin and Yosef Dayan, who said that Lieberman was a member of the party for a brief period of time. Lieberman refused to respond and called the publication an "orchestrated provocation".[49][50] Kach was barred from participating in the election in 1988 under the revised Knesset Elections Law banning parties that incited racism and was declared a terrorist organization in 1994.[51][52]

Corruption investigations

Some of Lieberman's connections with local and foreign businessmen are currently under police investigation. Lieberman allegedly received millions of shekels from various entrepreneurs while serving as member of Knesset; under Israeli law, MKs are not allowed to receive any payment beyond their salary.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 6, 2009 at 3:54 pm

Lieberman will last longer than you think, Sharon. The Kach membership issue, as you posted, is based on unsubstantiated claims by two activists in the movement and happened back in 1979.
The corruption investigations are just that, investigations!!
How is Samuel?


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 4:34 pm


Lieberman is a public relations nightmare and will have no credibility during his brief tenure as FM before he retires to Jail.

Image if we appointed some who had been a member of a terrorist White Supremacist party in 1979 as Secretary of State in 2009?

Meanwhile the wheels are turning in the right direction with Mitchell in charge.

"U.S. special envoy Mitchell is due to arrive in the region April 13 to advance the goal of the two-state solution and comprehensive peace. Mitchell is scheduled to meet with key officials in Israel and the Palestinian territories, Egypt, the Gulf, and North Africa."


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 7:24 pm


I see Obama is giving a full court press to Mitchells plan to impose a N Ireland type solution to the mutual bickering and violence in the mid east.
"U.S. President Barack Obama will visit Israel and the West Bank in June, according to an announcement circulated among American diplomatic representations in the region"

He who pays the piper calls the tune, looks like Lieberman has been muzzled today, prior to his retirement to jail, followed no doubt by a work related fatal accident involving the Russian mafia he will squeal on to get try and get less than life in jail. Tough luck with that.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 6, 2009 at 8:54 pm


I support Israel as a Jew, I do not support an Apartheid solution.

That will mean the end of Israel in 10 yrs.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 7, 2009 at 6:45 am

Really, Sharon, you now claim to be a Jew to bolster your arguments against Israel??
Seems in other threads you were constantly calling for Israel to be"brought to heel" and calling the issue a "tribal/religious" dispute. And you also use the word "apartheid" to describe the situation there. Clearly you have no clue of the proper meaning of the word "apartheid" and you have little idea and/or refuse to acknowledge the main sticking point to peace in the Middle east.


Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 7, 2009 at 7:01 am

I agree. I cracked up. Calling oneself a Jew to try to give yourself validity after making it extremely clear that one is NOT a Jew is hilarious.

Or, maybe this person is a Jew in the same way Saddam was a Muslim ( not really) or Hitler was a Christian ( not really). Just a hat to wear. Whatever, doesn't change my opinions at all


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 7, 2009 at 7:56 am


Actual as I have pointed out on a number of post threads I am Asian American.

My husband is Jewish and feels, like most American Jews, that apartheid will mean the end of Israel within 10 to 15 yrs.
This point was also made by Olmert many times.

As the policy of the this forum will only accept one name from any connection my husband occasionally puts in his two cents worth and will continue to do so.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 7, 2009 at 8:03 am

So, Sharon, you are not a Jew as previously stated.

"My husband is Jewish and feels, like most American Jews, that apartheid will mean the end of Israel within 10 to 15 yrs."

That is a patently false statement--most jews in america do not feel that Israel is engaging in apartheid practices. Mot jews in america understand the reasons that is Israel is in the position it is now (hint,sharon, it has something to do with the fact that Hamas has sworn to eradicate Israel).

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 7, 2009 at 8:33 am


My statements are accurate

From the UK GuardianWeb Link

"Israel risks apartheid-like struggle if two-state solution fails, says Olmert

In an interview with the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, Ehud Olmert said Israel was "finished" if it forced the Palestinians into a struggle for equal rights.

If the two-state solution collapsed, he said, Israel would "face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, and as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is finished". Israel's supporters abroad would quickly turn against such a state, he said.

"The Jewish organisations, which were our power base in America, will be the first to come out against us because they will say they cannot support a state that does not support democracy and equal voting rights for all its residents," he said."


The hate filled, racist defenders of Lieberman/ Kach and Kahane ChaiWeb Link
"Today both groups are considered terrorist organisations by Israel, Canada, the European Union and the United States."

The supporters of such fanatics will of course call people who disagree with them supporters of hamas or worse because they have neither the facts nor the law to support their position.

Again it was the Israeli Prime Minister Olmert who warned that the current apartheid will mean the end of Israel.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 7, 2009 at 8:59 am

Sharon, once again you twist the truth to try to further your point and attack Israel.
Olmert made the statement and he is wrong--regardless of that he is entitled to his opinion. He also suggested a unilaterally drawing up borders with the Palestinians and withdrawing from Gaza--well we saw where that got Israel.
You also continue to attack Leiberman and claim that he is a member of Kach--without any proof. Like it or not, he is foreign minister now. You bring in the red herring of Kach and Kahane Chai and thentry to tie Leiberman to them. Based on what? The claims of members of these organizations about events that happened 30 years ago--so you have no problems believing members of these terrorist organizations when they support your view point????
You also say nothing about the hate-filled and racist Hamas. I think we all know what the stumbling block to peace in the Middle East is.
It is too bad that you support Hamas and oppose Israel. I call you a supporter of Hamas because of your biased, one-sided attacks on Israel. I think the facts about Hamas speak for themselves. Are you now claiming that the facts about Hamas and their call for the destruction of Israel are false? Are you claiming now that Hamas has thelaw supporting them???


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 7, 2009 at 9:19 am



Again from the UK GuardianWeb Link

Avigdor Lieberman, Israel's shame

Thanks to Binyamin Netanyahu's overweening ambition, Israel is to be saddled with a foreign minister who is a national disgrace


"Imagine a country that appoints someone who has been found guilty of striking a 12-year-old boy to be its foreign minister.
The person in question is also under investigation for money-laundering, fraud and breach of trust;
in addition, he was a bona fide member of an outlawed racist party and currently leads a political party that espouses fascist ideas.
On top of all this, he does not even reside in the country he has been chosen to represent."

Read the full articleWeb Link

Defenders and supporters of Avigdor Lieberman are very alone these days, the very few left can visit him in jail, until his former friends in the Russian Mafia get to him, not a pretty sight, karma I guess.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 7, 2009 at 9:38 am

And Sharon, that is one man's opinion. He is foreign minister now-get used to it.

Once again you twist the truth:

"in addition, he was a bona fide member of an outlawed racist party and currently leads a political party that espouses fascist ideas.".

as I stated earlier this is based on the words of two members of said outlawed, racist party. You seem to hate the party, yet you have no problem accepting what members of that party say as being the truth.

Another twisting of the truth:

"Defenders and supporters of Avigdor Lieberman are very alone these days"

If that was the case his party would not have done so well in the last election and he would not be foreign minister

Even more to the point, you seem to be hung up on this Leiberman person. That is just a smoke screen. You have no problems with Hamas and their allies spouting fascist ideas. As i have stated many,many times the problem to peace in the Middle East is Hamas and their continuing calls for Israel's destruction.
I think your stand on the issue is very, very clear.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 7, 2009 at 9:53 am


The author of the article I cite above is a loyal Israeli-

Neve Gordon is the chair of the Department of Politics and Government, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Israel, and is the author of Israel's Occupation, University of California Press, 2008.
His website is here Web Link

Lieberman wants an apartheid racist regime, that will mean the end of Israel in a few years.Ehud Olmert and many others have warned about the consequences of apartheid -- the end of Israel-- the facts are the facts.
Lieberman is the true enemy of Israel, he will achieve what the crazed fanatics in Hamas can only dream about.
He is a pariah, as are those who defend and support him.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 7, 2009 at 10:23 am

Sharon--I do not question the loyalty of the author--I just stated that it was one man's opinion.
Do you question the "loyalty" of those that voted for Leiberman's party? Are they all pariahs?? Clearly you have no clue about Israeli politics.
As I stated earlier you seem to be hung up on Leiberman--repeating and twisting the truth with lies and distortions.
You are also not familiar with Leiberman's ideas--he wants to expel all the arabs--then they would no longer be living in Israel and would not be under Israeli control. Therefore it would not be apartheid, since South African apartheid was about the whites minority controlling the black majority. in Israel's case the Leiberman plan is to divest Israel of all control of the arabs by expulsion. Learn the facts before you throw around terms like apartheid. What Olmert was referring to was Israel maintaining control of the arabs--get your facts straight, Sharon.

You are blowing smoke by constantly harping about Leiberman--the problem is Hamas, plain and simple. Hamas could diffuse Leiberman by agreeing to recognize Israel and sitting down for serious peace talks. Israel would welcome that and Leiberman and his ideas would fade from the spotlight.
Place the blame where it belongs and recognize the real problem in the Middle East and stop writing the same things over and over again about this one person who somehow you decide to endlessly harp on.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 7, 2009 at 10:26 am

Sharon--just checked the link for Neve Gordon you posted.
Apparently he has no problems to posting links on his site for the International Solidarity Movement and Anarchists Against the wall among other organizations who question Israel's right to exist.
I think these facts make more clear the article of his that you posted.
I think we now know where he stands


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 7, 2009 at 3:51 pm


U.S. reiterates 2-state solution after Lieberman remarks Web Link

"Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said on Tuesday that Western-backed
peace efforts with the Palestinians had reached a "dead end" and that Israel intended to present new ideas for diplomacy, prompting a response from the State Department re-emphasizing the American goal of establishing two states."

Not very smart of Lieberman to publicly contradict Obama when he is in the middle of a diplomatic initiative in Europe, Turkey and Iraq.

The sooner the racist thug lands in prison, the better for everyone.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 8, 2009 at 6:45 am

Sharon--Still fixated on Leiberman I see. Regardless of who is FM--and Leiberman will hold that post for a while--Israel is in no hurry to negotiate with Hamas. I think the peace efforts have been at a dead end for a while. They will offer new ideas for diplomacy, but as long as the group you champion--Hamas--continues to call for ISrael's destruction, there is nothing to talk about.
I think you should get a clear understanding of the issues in that area before you continues your rantings about the ISraeli FM.
I still find it interesting that you continually call Leiberman a racist thug but have no problems with the words and actions of Hamas. Very interesting and telling.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 8, 2009 at 7:55 am



According to the UK Financial Times the racist thug Lieberman days are numbered, he not only acts like Al Capone but looks like him

"Some Israeli legal experts said the recent series of interrogations of Mr Lieberman and reports of the new documents might represent a new stage in the probe.

Shimon Dolan, former chief of the economic crimes division in the state prosecutor's office, who co-heads a private law firm, said: "This appears to be a new, more serious phase in the investigation.

"If he will face an indictment...it could be difficult for him to continue in his ­position."

As for Hamas they are Israels problem not ours.
They have not attacked US interests, Carter and other US and UK diplomats have and will continue to talk with Hamas.
They are like the IRA with the exception that Israel supported Hamas years ago as a opposition to Fatah.
SEE--
"After the 1967 Six Day War, as Israel's occupation started, Israel may have looked to cultivate political Islam (and its most important group, the Muslim Brotherhood), as a counterweight to Fatah, the main secular Palestinian nationalist political organization.[64][65] Between 1967 and 1987, the year Hamas was founded, the number of mosques in Gaza tripled from 200 to 600, and the Muslim Brotherhood named the period between 1975 and 1987 a phase of 'social institution building.'[66] Likewise, antagonistic and sometimes violent opposition to Fatah, the Palestine Liberation Organization and other secular nationalist groups increased dramatically in the streets and on university campuses.[64]"Web Link
Israel created the monster of Hamas which is now the democratically elected gov. in Gaza

Lieberman beat up a 12yr old, was a member of Kach, a racist terrorist group, and he is a corrupt mobster and politician.
He is toast.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 8, 2009 at 8:03 am

Sharon--how eagerly and quickly you voice support for Hamas. And you use one of your favorite expressions from your anti-Obama days--"he is toast".
As I have said, you seem to be fixated on Leiberman--to the extent that you twist and distort the facts. You rely on words by groups that you claim are evil because they are anti-Lieberman.
You may not know it--but the US and many countries in the world consider Hamas a terrorist organization. Jimmy Carter??? Nothing needs to be said about him.

And from the Hamas link you posted:

"The Hamas charter (or covenant), issued in 1988, calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[52] and the obliteration or nullification of Israel."

Need I say more about why Israel will not negotiate with Hamas? Does not matter who is the Israeli FM.
You need to get over your anti-Lieberman fixation Sharon or are you, as others claim stirring the pot???


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 8, 2009 at 9:00 am

By the way, Sharon, you also forgot to mention how Hamas cold-bloodily murdered Fatah supporters after they took over Gaza. A real nice group of loving people, that Hamas that you seem to idolize.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 8, 2009 at 11:01 am


Mitchell will apply the same framework he did in N Ireland and Obama will back him up.

In N Ireland there were violent terrorists on both sides.
On one side was
The Provisional and Real IRA, terrorists and thugs who bombed and slaughtered civilians with help from Libya and others.
There was also a political wing of the IRA who came to the negotiating table.
On the other side was the Ulster Freedom Fighters, who were terrorists and thugs.
There was a political wing the Ulster Defence Association who came to the negotiating table.

In the Holy Land there are extremists on both sides Kach and Kahane ChaiWeb Link a terrorist organization of which Lieberman was a member
and Hamas a terrorist organization.
Mitchell will work with democratically elected representatives of Israelis and Palestinians as well as other parties to achieve an agreement in the best interests of the USA.

That is his job and I wish him luck.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 8, 2009 at 11:15 am

Sharon--boy this fixation with Lieberman is getting scary. You claim that Lieberman was a member of the "terrorist organization" Kach and Kahane Chai over and over and over again. You base that on the word of two members of said "terrorist organizations". Don't you see something odd about that--decrying a terrorist organization, but believing what they say?? Seems to me you are beating a dead horse or maybe you believe that if you say something enough times it will become true. Get over it ,Lieberman is the Isreali FM, but as I stated it does not matter who is the FM--Hamas needs to change it's attitude before anything positive will be accomplished

You also do not look at the numbers--Kach and Kahane Chai have very few members in Israel. Hamas has widespread support in Gaza and other places.
Also in Israel Kach and Kahane Chai have no role in the government, In Gaza, the terrorist organization, Hamas, is the government!!

There is no comparison beween the situation in the Middle east and the problems in Ireland.
And as you state Mitchell will work with democratically elected representatives of Israelis and Palestinians--so he will be working with Lieberman--get used to that. Israel will make sure that the agree is in the best interests of Israel.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 8, 2009 at 11:31 am


There is a new wind blowing in DC which involves talking with parties who were previously cast as the " Axis of Evil"
This may be inconvenient for some foreign countries, but it is happening right now and will continue in the best interests of the USA.
Again we have no friends in foreign policy only common interests and those interests have shifted. There has been a review and it will be followed with discipline of those who do not get with the program and behave.

"The Obama administration said Wednesday it will participate directly in group talks with Iran over its suspect nuclear program, marking another shift from former President George W. Bush's policy."Web Link


Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 8, 2009 at 2:18 pm

Gosh, I sure wish we had spoken more with that former axis of evil, Mussolini, Showa or Konoe of Japan, and of course we can't let it go by without saying, Hitler, before we jumped in to defend freedom abroad and at home in WW2.

Just because so many more would have died and all the above dictators would have become stronger and bigger, that was no reason to stop talking! Why weren't there more Chamberlains here and abroad?

As a rambling aside, did you hear our esteemed President imply to the world that we were wrong for having used the Bombs in Japan? He said roughly that we have a unique moral responsibility to disarm the world since we are the only country to have used nuclear bombs. Amazing that this guy thinks it is fine to imply that a million more dead folks, Japanese and American, would have been better than simply chopping the war off at the knees like we did. So much better to look good rather than have good results.

This POTUS grew up full of poorly informed anti-American propoganda from his mother, his step-father, his schooling in Indonesia, his African family, Kenya where he travelled to support his avowed Marxist family member in his bid for "election" in Kenya, his ( and his wife's) elitist education in an Ivy league school in a horribly racist and mean country, ( who paid for their education?What classes did he take? What were his writings and his grades?) where he was indoctrinated yet more ( we see it still happening in all the Universities)..all with unrelenting one sided presentations and reflexive anti-American hatred. His core belief system shows every time he speaks.

And, of course, trying to imply to us, the Turks and the world that the USA and Turkey are the same, not "Christian, Jewish or Muslim, but a country of shared values and ideals" or something, ..you know, like Turkey..good grief. What are the shared values we in this country all hold and where did they come from? As far as I can see, there is a wide chasm between roughly 2 halves of the country, and one side is trying to adhere to a unique Constitution that sets apart from every other country in the world, and the other side is trying to turn us into France.

And Castro! What a great guy, according to Obama's Congressional Black Caucus who just visited Castro. ( What will the Congressional Asian congress, or the Congressional European Congress, or the Congressional Hispanic Congress, or the Congressional Women's Caucus, or the Congressional Men's Caucus, or the....whatever...think when they all visit?)

Castro played 'em for fools. Just a regular guy in a modest home, curious about King, asking what he can do to help Obama ( since his support last March for Obama was apparently ignored by the head in the sand crowd here, I guess he feels emboldened to help more), and anxious for us to stop the embargo so his country can prosper ( cuz, you know, the entire rest of the world can trade with Cuba, but somehow the Cubans are in a 3rd world situation because WE don't buy from them. Ya know, it has nothing to do with the Castro family stealing everything possible from the people at every chance, and destroying every bit of commerce they have). I am so happy that our country is finally going to save the Cuban people! Ok, so actually I am happy to finally get rid of that lightening rod, the embargo, to stop allowing Castro to use it as a focus of blame for HIS destruction of the country, but still, at the very least couldn't we get something back for it, like some kind of promise, empty or not, concerning Chavez or Russia relationship with Cuba?

Last, how proud I was to have our POTUS reveal how informed he is, again, but referring to the Austrian language. Next thing you know, he will be inventing the Mexican language.

What a great POTUS we have. I am so proud to have him represent us. As long as he continues to speak in code, ignoring any nasty words like terrorism ( new code...man-made catastrophe) or war ( overseas contingent operations) etc, I am sure no more bad stuff will happen in the world or to us, and all our friends and former enemies will join hands with us and peace will reign.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 8, 2009 at 3:23 pm



Getting back to Americas interests First.

Obama must be aware that the US needs Turkey for two reasons:
1/as a model of Muslim democracy and

2/as a base for US troops and military equipment.

The Turks remain optimistic that US foreign policy is taking on a more pragmatic bent.
"The US will put before everything else its real interests.
The vital importance of Incerlik [military base in eastern Turkey] for the US should not be underestimated.
How could the US antagonize Turkey? Turkey is very important for the US," they say.

Good that Obama is now putting priority on American interests in dealings with Iran and the tribal/religious disputes in the Holy Land.

Of course we will hear some squealing from alien PACs, we already are, but Obama is correct as POTUS to put American interests first!


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 8, 2009 at 6:30 pm

Clinton will be part of the talks with Iran, Lieberman is closer to jail and obscurity.
Who would have guessed?


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 9, 2009 at 6:34 am

Sharon is still fixate don Leiberman. She does not understand the big picture of the Middle East. She makes excuses for Hamas while vilifying the Israeli FM. As stated the Israeli FM is irreleevant to Israels position. Hamas is a terrorist organization and must change it's stripes. Unfortunately, people like Sharon choose to romanticize this terrorist organization


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 9, 2009 at 9:27 am


The Israeli terrorist organizations, The Stern GangWeb Link and IrgunWeb Link, were using the same tactics as Hamas long ago.

American best interests is best served by washing our hands of the whole sordid little affair between Hamas and Likud , the parties will either come to heel under American orders or we leave them to stew in it until they do come to heel.

Liebermans statements undermine American Foreign policy, if Israel does not fire him then Israel can no longer be seen as an ally and we are back to the days of PollardWeb Link
"Jonathan Jay Pollard (born August 7, 1954 in Galveston, Texas) is a former United States Naval civilian intelligence analyst who was convicted of spying for Israel. Pollard waived the right to trial as part of a plea deal for himself and his wife, pleaded guilty and was convicted on one count of spying for Israel. He received a life sentence in 1987 with a recommendation against parole. He was incarcerated at the federal penitentiary in Marion, Illinois in solitary confinement for seven years, then transferred to Butner Federal Correctional Institution in North Carolina. Israel granted Pollard citizenship in 1995 but publicly denied that he was an Israeli spy until 1998.[1] Israel now actively lobbies for his release."Web Link

We are now reviewing our ROI on Israel, it is net negative.
In addition
They undermine our foreign policy and spy on us, they have no oil, our interests are going in very different directions.
They want to bomb Iran, we want to talk to Iran and our approach will dominate.
Israel has been told that if they attack Iran at this time WE will blast the Israeli planes out of the sky.

Times have changed,the appointment of the racist thug Lieberman was just the last straw.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 9, 2009 at 10:06 am

Sharon now shows her true colors with regard to Israel and thier stand against the terrorist organization, Hamas.

Lets go through her claims, point by point:

1) "The Israeli terrorist organizations, The Stern Gang and Irgun, were using the same tactics as Hamas long ago."

That is very ancient history. Begin became PM of Israel, made peace with Egypt and gave back land captured during the 67 war. Yitzhak Shamir also served honorable as PM.
Careto discuss any "honorable" Hamas leaders, Sharon??



2)" American best interests is best served by washing our hands of the whole sordid little affair between Hamas and Likud , the parties will either come to heel under American orders or we leave them to stew in it until they do come to heel."

Really, Sharon? I think your view is shared by almost no one in this or our previous government

3)"Liebermans statements undermine American Foreign policy, if Israel does not fire him then Israel can no longer be seen as an ally and we are back to the days of Pollard"

Are you suggesting that the US interfere with the democratically elected government in Israel. You are still fixated with Lieberman. The US and Israel has gotten over the Pollard affair. Not sure how it is relevant to these days and issues.

4)"They undermine our foreign policy and spy on us, they have no oil, our interests are going in very different directions."

Really, Sharon, what do you base this conclusion on?
Interesting how all of a sudden you are so supportive of the US foreign policy , when only a few months ago you were singing Bushs' praises and continue to this day to vilify Obama

4)"Israel has been told that if they attack Iran at this time WE will blast the Israeli planes out of the sky."

Really, who has told them that?
Interesting how all of a sudden you are so supportive of the US policy regarding Iran , when only a few months ago you were singing Bushs' praises and continue to this day to vilify Obama.

5) "Times have changed,the appointment of the racist thug Lieberman was just the last straw."

Really, Sharon??? Have times changed? I do not see, as yet,a major shift with regard to Israel by the US. Not sure where you are getting your factoids from. Also still not sure about your fixation with Lieberman. As I have stated many many times before, the ISraeli FM is irrelevant--Israel will not deal with Hamas under the current conditions.

Your motives are quite clear for all to see--your rantings about the irgun and Stern Gang and Jonathon Pollard and Lieberman, expose your true feelings with regard to Israel and your admiration for Hamas.

The question is do you write all this stuff because you really believe it or just to "stir the pot" as others have pointed out after reading your inflammatory posts on other threads dealing with a wide spectrum of topics. I think you just like to push buttons.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 9, 2009 at 10:29 am


I did not support Obama in the Presidential election.

The fact is he is now the POTUS and commander in chief of our armed forces.
The office of the president deserves the respect and support of all Americans.

Obamas team has launched a radically new policy towards the Muslim world which they believe is in Americas best interests.

We have no friends in foreign policy, only common interests.
Foreign governments are free to support our foreign policy and get the benefits.
They are also free to undermine our foreign policy and face the consequences, Lieberman and his cronies have made their move and they will now face very severe consequences.

It is as simple as that, it is what it is.

By the way Pollards treachery led to the death of hundreds of our agents and supporters in the then Soviet Union, he should have got the death penalty, as it is he will die in jail-- good riddance

"Ron Olive, the agent in charge of counterintelligence for the NIS at the time of Pollard's arrest, published a book about the case in 2006. Olive told the BBC that the incident was "one of the most devastating cases of espionage in US history" during which Pollard stole over "one million classified documents".[14]"Web Link


The Jerusalem City Council, in support of Pollard, changed the name of a square near the official prime minister's residence from Paris Square to Freedom for Jonathan Pollard Square.


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 9, 2009 at 10:51 am

Sharon:

But what does the Pollard issue have to do with the situation HERE and NOW regarding the Middle East???
Anyway regarding the web link you posted with regard to the Olive book, had you read a little further you would have seen:

"Pollard's pro bono attorneys, Eliot Lauer and Jacques Semmelman, in an article published in the Jerusalem Post, assert that "The book and op-ed piece contain numerous accusations that are nowhere to be found in the public sentencing docket, and that could not be disclosed if they were in the classified sentencing docket. They are therefore in neither place, and cannot be considered even remotely reliable.""

Once again, Sharon, you are caught twisting the "facts" for your own selfish purposes.

Love how you change your tune when your inconsistencies are pointed out to you. ALso notice how you still are fixated on Lieberman. Care to elaborate who Lieberman's "cronies" are and what very severe consequences they will now face.
Seems like all you do is ignore facts and make, what are in your mind, inflammatory statements.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 9, 2009 at 12:17 pm



If you want a view of things to come

Check outWeb Link

"J Street is the political arm of the pro-Israel, pro-peace movement.
We seek to change the direction of American policy in the Middle East and to broaden the public and policy debate in the U.S. about the Middle East.
We support strong American leadership to end the Arab-Israeli and Palestinian-Israeli conflicts peacefully and diplomatically."..

J Street is deeply concerned about what Avigdor Lieberman's recent strong showing in Israeli elections, and the key role he is playing as Foreign Minister in the new Israeli government, mean for the US-Israel relationship. Web Link


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 9, 2009 at 12:21 pm

Wow-Sharon, democracy in action. J Street has their views and the Israeli government has theirs.
Let's see you post a link to a Palestinian group that supports "end the Arab-Israeli and Palestinian-Israeli conflicts peacefully and diplomatically". We have seen "democracy in action" in Gaza--Hamas people cold-bloodely murdering Fatah supporters.

Is there a point to your latest post?


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 9, 2009 at 7:34 pm



Around 75% of American Jews voted for Obama for President.

J street Web Link

The political arm of the pro-Israel, pro-peace movement, is in alignment with the Obama team policies re the Mid East.

J street also warns about the past and future of the racist thug Lieberman, check out their documentation of his history and goals Web Link

He is in the tradition of Stalin and Al Capone, not the Jewish history of culture, decency and human rights.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 9, 2009 at 8:57 pm


Israel is learning to come to heel, maybe
Good for them, if they obeyWeb Link


Posted by Support Israel, a resident of Stanford
on Apr 10, 2009 at 6:45 am

Sharon--do you think maybe you are fixated with Leiberman. You have now posted the same J Street link with their anti-Leiberman tirade at least 3 times in the last 24 hours. Of course you do not connect Jews voting for Obama with agreement with J Street!!!!
Yet you continue to rant and rave about Leiberman--your hysteria about him is quite amusing. You have no clue about the politics of Israel or the situation in the Middle East--you have fixated on the democratically elected member of Israeli Parliament and FM, for some reason, while completely ignoring the elected Hamas members who are in the tradition of Stalin and Al Capone. Of course Hamas has never stood for decencyand human rights.

As for your last post, why should Israel oppose talks with Iran? And if Israel acts against Iran it will be with the USA's blessing--you will not be aware of it, Sharon, but that is the reality.
As for your comparing Israel to a dog (i.e. come to heel, obey)--quite revolting, but not unexpected considering your propensity for inflammatory postings without any substance or facts.
Say hi to Samuel.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 10, 2009 at 4:11 pm


Interesting development, it is clear that Tony Blair and Mitchell see the conflict in the Holy Land in the same light as N Ireland.
Barak over ruled Lieberman re Gerry Adams trip

Adams said he had met with special US Mideast envoy George Mitchell in Washington last month and told him of his plan to visit Gaza.
He said he planned to "brief the Irish government, friends in the US, others I deal with internationally, and that would include Sen. Mitchell."

Mitchell and Adams have known each other since the former US senator helped broker a Northern Ireland peace deal in the 1990s.

Quartet envoy Tony Blair intervened directly with Defense Minister Ehud Barak to enable Northern Ireland politician Gerry Adams through the Erez Crossing and into the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, where he met Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, The Jerusalem Post has learned.

The decision to let Adams into the Gaza Strip came against recommendations by the Foreign Ministry, which had urged that Israel not facilitate his passage because he was unwilling to promise not to meet with Hamas representatives.
Defense officials said the decision to allow Adams into Gaza was taken by Barak after Blair brought a personal request to him during a meeting earlier this week. Web Link

Mitchell, Adams and Blair achieved peace in N Ireland, I hope the same approach achieves peace in the Holy Land.


Posted by Perspective, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 11, 2009 at 6:56 am

Until Jews ( and Blacks, and Hispanics, and every other "group" who has been oppressed and should know better) understand that the Democrat party is not the party of their grandfathers and mothers, they will keep voting for the very party which destroying freedom.

Pity, really. Wake up minorities and poor and see who REALLY is working for economic and religious freedom in this country.

So, the demographics of who voted for Obama are still essentially the same as who voted for Gore and Kerry and Clinton. No big shock there. I just hope everyone wakes up before we are all mired in a European socialist economy and freedom killing bureacracy.

Gotta say, it cracks me up when my young European cousin tells me that this friend is working in Ireland and that friend in Germany and my cousin is in America. All in their 20s..yet believes that the REASON they have left their country is because they are "cosmopolitan"....not seeing that they are all taking work in places where they can have better lives. Still can't answer themselves "why" this is so.


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Apr 12, 2009 at 9:03 pm


The precarious "peace" ie lack of total war during the cold war was based on MAD, this was predicated upon Game Theory.
Game Theory is predicated on the idea that you have rational actors.
Rational actors act in their own best interest.
The basis of self interest is that you value you own individual survival.

In the current world game theory does not apply, China has stated it has so many people it can survive the worst we can throw against while we cannot.
That is rational but demonic, game theory will not apply unless we increase our nuclear capability by 500%

Fanatic Islamists believe that death is salvation through martyrdom.
Game theory does not apply to them.

In the rational world of game theory you can gain an edge by posing as the "mad man" as Nixon did.
In the current irrational world the "mad man" Lieberman is in fact the spark that will cause, not deter, the worst case.
He makes it inevitable and must be stopped.


If you were a member and logged in you could track comments from this story.

Post a comment

Posting an item on Town Square is simple and requires no registration. Just complete this form and hit "submit" and your topic will appear online. Please be respectful and truthful in your postings so Town Square will continue to be a thoughtful gathering place for sharing community information and opinion. All postings are subject to our TERMS OF USE, and may be deleted if deemed inappropriate by our staff.

We prefer that you use your real name, but you may use any "member" name you wish.

Name: *

Select your neighborhood or school community: * Not sure?

Comment: *

Verification code: *
Enter the verification code exactly as shown, using capital and lowercase letters, in the multi-colored box.

*Required Fields

Most Seniors do not Need Senior Housing But Could Benefit from other Choice to Remain in Palo Alto
By Steve Levy | 48 comments | 1,952 views

Custom pizza joint on its way to Mountain View
By Elena Kadvany | 5 comments | 1,800 views

"The Galapagos Affair: Satan Came to Eden"
By Anita Felicelli | 0 comments | 1,201 views

I Spy
By Cheryl Bac | 6 comments | 1,077 views

The Cinderella ride
By Sally Torbey | 10 comments | 822 views