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Passing Measure N Will Save Wear and Tear on Our Streets.

Original post made by Realistic, Adobe-Meadows, on Oct 24, 2008

Currently, we have almost 400,000 visitors to our branch system. If we fail to pass Measure N, and libraries close as a result of our failure to fund and maintain them, that will put 400,000+ more car trips on the road per annum, instead if havingn people walk and bike to the library. Do you want to have to get into a car every time you want to visit a library? Do you want to take away the great homework help that thousands of students enjoy at our libraries after school? I don't, and that's why I'm voting for Measure N!

Comments (17)

 +   Like this comment
Posted by Now that's desperate
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Oct 24, 2008 at 6:51 pm

Wow, that's a hail mary.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Palo Altan
a resident of Professorville
on Oct 24, 2008 at 8:13 pm

Wait a second. 400,000 visitors and 50,000 residents = 8 visits per year. So let's say soccer moms go 2-4 times a month plus the old people who hang out there. Do these people need Prop N to build meeting rooms, A/C, a cafe and such? Last time I looked old people look for free coffee and moms either go to Starbucks or bring it from home. The crime here is that no money from Prop N goes for books, computers, or subscriptions. That comes from private dollars yet to be raised.

The real answer is Proposition Landlord. Yes Landlord. All the old and rich people who own homes and rent them. They are grandfathered under Prop 13 to cap taxes. So the elderly who own a million dollar home, rent it for 4 or 5K a month and only pay 5K in annual taxes - that is the crime. They rent the home to a family with 2, 3, 4 + kids who attend our schools. Why do you think PAUSD is asking $650 a kid in donation at beginning of school year. It's 'cause these landlords don't support the school system. How about getting landlords to pay market value taxes?





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Posted by RS
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Oct 24, 2008 at 9:53 pm

You make the false assumption that most people walk or bike to the library. Actually a lot of people drive. The parking lot of main is usually full of more cars than the bike racks has bikes. The cars are not what is chewing up the streets anyway.


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Posted by common sense
a resident of Midtown
on Oct 24, 2008 at 10:10 pm

Palo Altan,

What about the Tinsley VTP - about 500 kids? what taxes do they contribute?

What about the BMR units (both owner occupied & rentals)? they pay no property tax?

What about the businesses who contribute a bunch of taxes (sales, hotel occupancy)?


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Posted by Resident
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Oct 24, 2008 at 10:11 pm

Realistic-

This is one of the most unrealistic stories that I had read in support of measure N.

As the resident from Adobe Meadows wrote "Wow, that's a hail mary"

Agreed


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Bob
a resident of Barron Park
on Oct 25, 2008 at 10:14 pm

400,000 visitors equals 400,000 car trips? Since a large percentage of the library visitors are children without drivers licenses, how do they get the cars to make the trips? And one person per car?

If all our public libraries fall apart because N fails, I'm sure the school district would find a way to keep the many school libraries open for a few hours after school.

And what homework help is offered at our libraries? Is that what the librarians are paid to do?

This is the silliest set of arguments for N I have read.


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Posted by Save our libraries!
a resident of Barron Park
on Oct 25, 2008 at 10:57 pm

"400,000 visitors equals 400,000 car trips?"

Maybe more, because many of those trips would be to drop someone off at the library, with another car trip to pick them up.

School libraries are not full service libraries; they are not research material deep and are primarily set up to support established curriculum. School libraries are only available to students, not the general community. So hoping that school libraries can pick up the slack for closed libraries if Measure N fails is a pipe dream.

Homework help is offered in many public libraries; it's another kind of research aid offered to patrons - young patrons. If you have questions about "x", a librarian would help you find an answer, too. Why not help a student, or are you one of the sock puppets here who think that citizens under 21 shouldn't be in a library.

Vote YES on Measure N


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Please stop it
a resident of Evergreen Park
on Oct 26, 2008 at 12:57 pm

>are you one of the sock puppets here who think that citizens under 21 shouldn't be in a library.<
Please stop repeating this nonsense Sanford. You are hurting your cause.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by We're Too Intellectual
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Oct 26, 2008 at 1:54 pm

Does Realistic really think Palo Altans would fall for such an argument?! Thanks for my laugh of the day.


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Posted by fools
a resident of Downtown North
on Oct 26, 2008 at 4:57 pm

We have 400,000 visitors to our branch system. Mountain view has 800,000. Not only do they spend half as much as Palo Alto on their libraries but cater for twice the number of visitors. That doesn't even count the additional customers provided by their other library services.



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Posted by fools need better information
a resident of Downtown North
on Oct 26, 2008 at 7:07 pm

Sorry, Palo Alto has well over 800,000 visitors to its library annually. And Palo Alto is 2.5 times more efficient in delivering library services than our municipal neighbors.


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Posted by palo alto mom
a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Oct 26, 2008 at 8:02 pm

VOTE NO BECAUSE THIS BOND IS WRONG FOR PALO ALTO

HOURS - last time I checked, I'm one person who can be in one place at a time. I can be in PA libraries for 62 hours a week, Mountain View libraries for 64 for half the cost (even Thursday morning!!) I can't be in 2 places at once, hence the cumulative branch number is irrelavant.

WASTEFUL SPENDING - Moving books from branch to branch (and paying for techonlolgy to do so), duplicating collections, duplicating services, duplicating staff is redundant, unnecessary, wasteful and fiscally irresponsible. The "biking and walking" argument does not hold water if you watch the car traffic at the libraries - a HUGE majority drive.

HOMEWORK HELP - open our school libraries past 2-4 pm. Homework help for students at our libraries is currently minimal and not the role of a librarian, research help, yes, homework help, it is not their job and there are not enough of them.

BIKING - Funny. Biking to the library Main Library at 4 pm Sunday, 6 bikes, at least 37 cars

SCHOOL LIBRARIES - "School libraries are not full service libraries"- wrong, they have much better collections for children that any PA library except occasionally Children's. Our elementary school libraries are deliberately filled with books for their target audience, tied to the PAUSD curriculum.

ACTUAL BUILDING COST INCLUDING CONTINGENCIES - over 1100 per square foot. In addition to being ridiculously expensive - we are including a community center in our library bond because??

PIE - Pie donations are voluntary (and pay for staff not books...). The bond will be mandatory. If you are on a budget, which increasing amount of PA residents are, will you skip paying your taxes to donate to PiE (or any one else?)


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Posted by R Wray
a resident of Palo Verde
on Oct 26, 2008 at 9:17 pm

Not only trips saved to a central library, but think how many trips won't be made because the tax payers are now $76,000,000 poorer. Many trips won't be made to the ice cream store, movie house or downtown. There will be fewer FedEx trucks delivering books not ordered. Our roads will be in great shape.


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Posted by Resident
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Oct 26, 2008 at 9:31 pm

Is there any way to know how many of these visits are just to check out DVD's or use the computers?

Most of the people I've seen using the computers are not researching but watching tv or surfing the web.

Come on, let's just admit that we want a free movie rental shop with internet access, with an attached coffee bar snack shop, and a place for working parents to leave their kids while they work.

Parents love to hear "I've been at the library".

We recently moved here and this bond would cost us a fortune.

Add to this the future increases in cost to our garbage collection, water rates (may double or triple soon), and electric rates.

We are voting no for the free movies, drop off/ rec center/ and free internet access (away from parents).


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Good One
a resident of Barron Park
on Oct 26, 2008 at 9:38 pm

"Come on, let's just admit that we want a free movie rental shop with internet access, with an attached coffee bar snack shop, and a place for working parents to leave their kids while they work.

Parents love to hear "I've been at the library"."

That is the funniest post on this topic I have yet seen (serious). True that.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Realistic
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Oct 27, 2008 at 1:57 am

" I can't be in 2 places at once, hence the cumulative branch number is irrelavant."

HOURS ARE CONVENIENT:But two families can walk to two different story times, in different neighborhoods, and kids from different school systems can walk to different libraries after school, because they're within walking distance - and so on.
**************


"duplicating collections, duplicating services, duplicating staff is redundant, unnecessary"

EFFICIENT SPENDING: Collections are not duplicated, as books distribute throughout the system by demand. DT and CT have very thin collections, by design.
***************

"Homework help for students at our libraries is currently minimal and not the role of a librarian"
HELPS STUDENTS AND PAUSD: Homework help is substantial; it is requested by parents and students; it supports PAUSD's excellent curriculum; librarians help students learn how to do research (that's the role of a librarian)
**************


" Biking to the library Main Library at 4 pm Sunday, 6 bikes, at least 37 cars"
BIKING: Try Mitchell after school, or Main on a Saturday - both packed with bikers and walkers. Same with CT and DT. Way more people walk and bike than drive. WAY more!
*************


"Our elementary school libraries are deliberately filled with books for their target audience, tied to the PAUSD curriculum"
SCHOOL LIBRARIES: That's right, they're not full service libraries, and in no way are meant to serve the diverse needs of most library users, including students. Also, they're not open on weekends and evenings, the public library IS open.
*****************

"we are including a community center in our library bond because??"
EFFICIENCIES: So that we can combine PAUSD, Recreation, and library programming and SAVE TAXPAYERS MONEY!!
*****************

"Pie donations are voluntary"
PIE: And passing Measure N will reduce the need for PIE donations, because the library will be able to do more cooperative programming with PAUSD. This has ben mentioned several times.

YES on N!!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by no on N
a resident of Crescent Park
on Oct 27, 2008 at 9:10 am

Dear Realistic -

PIE does not do programming, they pay for staff. There is no "cooperative programming" funded by PiE. There is programming between PAUSD and the library - PiE funds are NOT used for them. Repeating something does not make it true.

Community center - what PAUSD programming will take place in the community center? Middle school dances?


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