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by Walter_E_Wallis, Midtown,
on Aug 29, 2008
Excellent choice Mr. McCain.
All we need now is to get all eight them on a fishing trip. I would pay money to watch that.
This election is so hilariously out of proportion, only the most stubborn or dense could possibly have a hard time deciding. Obama-Biden is the obvious choice to improve our world standing and provide the inspiration the American people need. McCain's comical running mate pick underscores that he hopes only to swipe votes from former Hillary Clinton supporters -- all of whom now support Barack -- and shows that he doesn't care much who would be in charge should his health get the better of him.
Obama in '08!!
When the Dems come after Palin for inexperience in foreign affairs, the reply will be obvious --the GOP vice-presidential nominee is as experienced as the Democratic presidential nominee but also has executive decision-making that Obama lacks.
Palin's tough stance on reform of long corrupt practices is going to give her a very clear advantage over practiced cronyists Obama and Biden.
And she knows the crucial energy issue very, very well, as well as a variety of land-use and property rights issues dear to many in the crucial mountain west.
McCain has turned the race on its head, and if Palin proves to be as able a campaigner as her fans say, GOP and American politics will have been changed in a way that fundamentally celebrates opportunity and talent.
What a contrast to Obama's Athenian rhetoric of last night.
Doesn't her husband work for BP? Another big-oil connection. Just like the current occupant of the Veep slot and the prez. We don't need that.
Meg/Gary/Sharon etc--It was the McCain campaign that made supposed inexperience an issue (of course it wasn't an issue in 2000 when Bush was running and served as figurehead/governor of Texas)--so if the McCain gang raises the question again, the Dems will have the response.
Of course Palin is as pure as she comes across:
"Nevertheless, she is under investigation for her firing of a state official, Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. She has been instructed to hand over documents and recordings of telephone conversations as part of the probe, which grew out of allegations she sacked Monegan for refusing to fire her former brother-in-law from the state police."
Naturally Obara's rhetoric last night was not to the satisfaction of the Megs of the world--anything he would have said would have been put down with a negative comment. Bottom line in this campaign as in others, the democrats can do no right and the republicans can do no wrong.
Of course I know that the Megs of this world ( and all his/her alter egos on this forum) are just a small minority of the voters. Most people are intelligent enough to read between the lines and see all the baggage that McCain is carrying.
John McCain missed a huge opportunity here. He should have chosen Colin Powell for his vice-president and split the black vote. Instead by choosing Sarah Palin in the hopes of splitting the woman's vote he may have blundered.
What a terrific choice.
Here nickname on the b-ball court was "Barracuda" - I hope she has that same instinct in debates.
The next best move after introducing Palin as VP would be to announce 3-4 cabinet spots, and all travel together in a 10-day campaign juggernaut.
Danny, surely you jest. Biden has one years' experience 35 times.
Underenthused, Powell might have worked to shore up Obama, but his RINO past would attract few conservatives. Dr. Rice might have been O.K. but then the NFL would be denied her governance.
Split the black vote? Wake up man! The country is only roughly 13% african american. Women are HALF. I'd take 50 over 13 any day if I were pandering for votes.
I always get a kick out of reading your posts, but I don't jest about this election. I will do everything in my power (which, admittedly, isn't a lot) to get one of the most inspirational, intelligent, honorable and motivational Americans in history elected as the next president of the United States. I'm tremendously honored to be voting for Barack Obama and Joe Biden and can't wait to see them renew our standing in the world, revitalize the economy, end the war in Iraq, support renewable energy and -- most of all -- erase the divisiveness and greed-driven blunders brought on by the worst (and most unpopular) administration in American history (Bush/Cheney).
If you think the Democrats, Independents and logical Republicans are going to sit idly by and let McCain/Palin continue the misguided politics of the Bush Administration, just take a glance at the thousands who crowded Mile High Stadium last night for Obama's breathtaking speech. The times are changing friend. And if they don't, this country is going to have far more problems than could ever possibly be discussed on this forum.
You have clearly caught the Obama virus. Your choice.
However, if your guy was in office 8 years ago, Saddam would still be in power in Iraq, with nuclear weapons (or very close, according to Goerge Tenet), continuing his mass murder and regional threats.
Under GWB, Iraq has been liberated. You see, Danny, GWB was the agent of change, not your guy.
The mesmerization with Barack is very strong with his true believers. May I suggest that he head down to New Orelans, to turn the hurricane around? Clearly, he is capable of acts against nature.
Gary--your conclusions are invalid. You have no way of knowing what would have happened had their been a democrat in the white house after 9/11 and therefore your conclusions about Saddam and Bush do not hold water. Also not sure where you are coming up with the George Tenet stuff. Anyway, his ability to acquire and interpret intel is a bit suspect as well
Speaking of New Orleans, we should not forget the utter incompetence displayed by Bush and his cronies in the aftermath of Katerina (nice job, brownie--bush said to the man from the horsie set)
You have the same twisted logic that most every liberal exhibits.
If you think that you cannot project what would happen when a particular somebody were to be in office, why do Democrats pin their talking points on the idea that McCain is going to be just more of George Bush, especially when McClain's record is full of occasions he was at odds with Bush admin policy?
I am expecting next a rhyming version of this talking liberal point, since virtually all intellectual liberal points must be made while shouting two verse slogans, usually beginning 'hey, hey, ho, ho!..."
Who told you guys that you are the smart ones anyway-outside of other liberals?
Elect, my assumptions are very straightforward. Obama, would have opposed any invasion of Iraq. Saddam was fully in power within Iraq, and regaining international acceptance and money (rember "Food for Oil"?). He was bying off international diplomats and businessmen.
George Tenet, defending his own intelligence that he provided the GWB administration said that he told them that a nuclear threat from Saddam was not imminent...he would not get nuclear weapons until 2007, 2009. Unless I am wrong, this is now 2008. If Obama was elected in 2000, I can only surmise that we would now be facing Saddam, continuing his mass murder of his own people...and either have or about to have nukes. He would not have wasted a single moment handing off a nuke or two to al qaeda, if they agreed to do a suicide attack in New York City. After all, the way it works over there is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
We have GWB to thank that this scenario is no longer possible.
GWB was the president of change. Obama would have been the president of staus quo (a very dangerous thing).
Actually, if my guy (who was Al Gore in 2000, the year Bush stole office) was in office 8 years ago, Al Qaeda never would have pulled off 9/11, Katrina would have been handled with the humanitarian care it needed (not the greedy disregard it received), gas prices would be much lower and the economy in better shape, and something would actually be done about global warming. "Liberating Iraq" is GW's big accomplishment?? Don't make me laugh. Thousands of American troops have died with no visible up side. He's screwed up everything he possibly could, from allowing the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil to watching thousands drown in Katrina and the economy tank.
I think you may be living in the wrong state Gary. Try Texas or North Dakota. Your backwards, fear-based viewpoints are of no benefit to the forward-thinking residents of California who actually want something GOOD to happen to this country.
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If California is so smart, why have our schools become wretched over the last 30 years while unions consolidated their power with teachers? Why are we unable to complete a budget without thinking major new taxes are needed to do so? Your comments on Texas and North Dakota indicate your lack of real experience in this world, and a painfully ignorant bias.
Fear-based thinking is good. Fear is good. It has what has kept mankind alive on this planet for many thousands of years, and for good reason. "Why can't we all get along?" makes for cool tee shirts, but it is not a basis for operating policy.
Finally, if you are still upset about Gore's election loss, go help campaign for an end to the electoral college.
"It is pretty audacious for the Obama campaign to say that Governor Palin is not qualified to be Vice President. She has a record of accomplishment that Senator Obama simply cannot match. Governor Palin has spent her time in office shaking up government in Alaska and actually achieving results -- whether it's taking on corruption, passing ethics reform or stopping wasteful spending and the 'bridge to nowhere.' Senator Obama has spent his time in office running for President." --Jill Hazelbaker, McCain Communications Director
McCain has stolen obamas thunder and effectively muzzled biden. If he starts to act like an attack dog he is finished, even though that was why he was appointed so that obama could stay above the fray.
If obama cries inexperience it backfires. If he cries racism he is neutered by sexism. Brilliant chess move for McCain, and its time we had a woman in the white house who will block hillarys bid in 2012.
For the record, I have many Republican friends whom I deeply respect and care about and share intelligent dialogue with regularly. I even think George Bush Sr. was a pretty good president. But I -- like millions of other Americans (check the voter turnout if you're unsure) -- and weary of the mistakes made by Bush Jr. and the divisiveness currently plaguing our country.
"The country is only roughly 13% african american. Women are HALF. I'd take 50 over 13 any day if I were pandering for votes."
That type of logic didn't work for Hillary Clinton.
McCain is making a big mistake if he thinks Clinton's supporters back her solely because she's a woman. No doubt there are some pure gender voters out there ones who will favor any female candidate over a male. But if McCain thinks that type of reasoning covers most of Clinton's base, he's in for a surprise.
As a woman and former Clinton supporter, I find McCain's choice insulting. I supported Clinton because 1) I agreed with her on most of the issues; 2) I felt she was qualified and would work effectively. Being a woman was icing. It was exciting to know that this country could be led by a woman who has those qualifications. It's not enough to know that a woman could lead this country she must be qualified.
Likewise, it's not enough to have a woman on McCain's ticket to capture my vote. Sarah Palin has only governed her state for two years, a woeful lack of experience for becoming one of the world's leaders. And given McCain's age, his running mate's experience is something to consider.
I look forward to the day when a woman leads this country -- because she is the best candidate -- not because she is a woman. McCain's choice shows that he doesn't grasp the distinction.
Meg--did you expect someone from the McCain to say anything different than what Jill said????
Let me remind you it is McCain who started playing the inexperience card regarding Obama. BTW I hope that McCain did a good job vetting his Veep choice--wouldn't want anything embarrassing from her sorority days to bubble up to the surface
Try this analysis on for size:
"John McCain needs what Kinky Friedman calls "a checkup from the neck up."
In choosing Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his running mate, he is not thinking "outside the box," as some have said. More like out of his mind."
Entire article at:
"Actually, if my guy (who was Al Gore in 2000, the year Bush stole office) was in office 8 years ago, Al Qaeda never would have pulled off 9/11"
Your guy was vice president while Osama cooked up 9/11. In fact, Osama did some major attacks under your guy (USS Cole, World Trade Center attack # 1, US embassies in Africa, etc. ). Exactly how would your guy have stopped 9/11?
Gore, in fact, actually inhibited GWB's security team coming up to speed, as he attempted to steal the election from Bush (remember Florida?), thus delaying the transfer of power.
GWB WAS the president of change. Every four years, though, there is always a possibility of another change. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
Thank you-you are a perfect example of what it is like to speak with logic or fact with many liberals. You have either missed or ignored the several points I made likely because they are counter to your dogma.
Attacks begin immediately on Sarah Palin because she is not really a woman in the liberal point of view; she is not a slave on the Democrat plantation.
Your Obama is the Max Headroom of 2008. A complete fiction of media. An avatar. Try to imagine him conducting the US presidency for four years exclusively by making speeches that a crack team of writers crank out for him. That is his skill set. He makes a great class president, editor of the law review and poster boy.
Mike--you have made my point again. You mention attacks on Palin--when Biden was chosen there were no attacks from the Republican side. This forum was full of derogatory comments about Biden--so let's just forget the double standard that you operate under. I guess attacks on the republican ticket are frowned upon by you and your acolytes, but attacks on Obama/biden are a-okay as far as you are concerned (your above post proves it). We will see in November what happens.
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Thanks for the entertainment on an otherwise dull Friday. First of all, it doesn't matter when Bin Laden cooked up 9/11. People are always planning things, everywhere, no matter who is president. You could have two guys sitting at a poker table "planning something." It matters when and how it was executed. And I seem to remember GW reading "My Pet Goat" while the WTC was tumbling. Keep fooling yourself into thinking GW was a president of change (my goodness it feels nice to discuss his presidency in the past tense). Heck, maybe he was, if you're a rich, white Repug. But for the other 95% of the country, he was an abysmal failure.
And I do remember who stole the election in 2000 -- you seem to have selective memory about that election. Gore not only won the popular vote, but he also won Florida. Bush's brother (as governor) and his campaign manager (Katharine Harris) fraudulently handed the state over to Bush (with a little help from the Repug-heavy Supreme Court). We have reaped the rewards of that transgression for eight, long, brutal years.
Barack can't stop a hurricane -- he isn't God. But he can certainly make sure the death and damage doesn't leave the same kind of lasting effect that Katrina did. He can actually HELP people. What a novelty....
""The country is only roughly 13% african american. Women are HALF. I'd take 50 over 13 any day if I were pandering for votes."
That type of logic didn't work for Hillary Clinton."
what a silly thing to say. hillary destroyed obama in the last half of the campaign...literally destroyed him...she and bill clinton are completely responsible for keeping him in the race, where even after the convention obama still draws even with mccain. palin is a brilliant choice; she's a fighter, and she will use her boots to stomp on biden, who is a servant of the delaware financial shell game that rips off every other state in the nation.
"And I do remember who stole the election in 2000"
i voted for gore that time. nobody stole the election. the effete progressive left wing of the democrats lost that election by not letting al gore be himself. he had to be politically correct, according to the mantra of the progressive left politskai. they have selected another kerry this year, a kerry who speaks better than the first one, but that's all
Danny, when your house catches fire do you call he local authorities or the president? Only the most desperate libs still manage to overlook the complete failure of the democrat machine in the Big Easy. Bush one was a fine TBM pilot but a lousy president. Criticize Bush for Brownie, but at least Bush didn't have to shoot down the plane his Brown was in to avoid embarrassment.
Pam says "hillary destroyed obama in the last half of the campaign...literally destroyed him."
How do you define destruction in the primaries? On super Tuesday Obama beat Clinton 847 to 834 delegates. the mid-february primarues it was 287½ to 166½ delegates for Obama. March primaries were 210 to 205 for Obama. Clinton did win from April and beyond 305 to 261--hardly "destroying Obama" (but facts have never been republicans strong suit anyway)
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"WHEN my house catches fire...?" Careful friend -- some things can be misinterpreted as threats. IF my house were to catch fire, I'd deal with it like I've dealt with other problems I've faced. I certainly wouldn't expect Obama OR McCain to help me much with that. What I expect from a president is inspiration, solid judgment, intelligence and diplomatic skills. Bush Jr. demonstrated none of those qualities, and Barack demonstrates all of them. There is a certain nobility, a certain generosity, a certain humanity and a certain selflessness that Democrats consistently demonstrate, none (in my experience) so much as Barack Obama. The Democrat/Repug tussle feels a bit like Good vs. Evil to me. Selflessness vs. Greed. Equality vs. Racism. I hope I'm wrong, and I do know there are some Repugs out there who are genuinely good people, but recently it's felt like it's up to the Democrats to bring the "good" back into American politics.
If this hurricane strikes like Katrina, Barack will do no better than Bush. FEMA is not able to safely stage emergeny supplies close in to a major hurricane...it needs to stand off, so that it still has some dry powder. The local officials need to use all avaialble vehicles to evacuate their residents, using marshall law, if necessary. This did not happen during Katrina.
Florida? You gotta be kidding!
Well, I don't even really believe in "God," per say, so you're barking up the wrong tree with the "true believers" comments. Barack is simply an intelligent, eloquent, good man. It will be refreshing to have him in office after GW did so much to tear down this amazing country. And if Gustav DOES strike like Katrina, it won't be up to Barack (sadly), because we're still on Bush's blind watch.
We can argue until we're both blue in the fingers, but you'll never convince me that McCain is better than Obama, and vice versa. But there's a movement, and the power of the people is doing the talking. There's a spirit and an energy behind Barack Obama and Joe Biden that is unparalleled -- every Repug I know is shaking in his $3,000 cowboy boots. It's an exciting time.
Er, maybe not for you....
WOW! I just heard Palin on the radio and she is definitely not a wilting flower. She's a firebrand, and has serious rhetorical gifts. I would put her ability to fire up a crowd on a par with Obama. The Democrats now have a real fight on their hands.
What Lurks in the Ayers-Annenberg Files?
The panicked reaction of the Obama campaign suggests they hold very damaging information.
As the façade's cracks begin to show through largely outside the focus of the major media the Obama camp is behaving badly and thereby telegraphing that the charges involving Obama's role in the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC) are not only true, but both unanswerable and exceedingly damaging to the campaign's make-believe narrative about their candidate.
I am enjoying this back and forth!
I threw away my old cowboy boots decades ago, becaseu they were stinky old things, and my days pushing cattle were behinds me. However, I always did admire those $3K boots that some guys had! They were older guys, who had survivied, and got a piece of land, and a little scratch...and they saved up and bought those boots...and they busted their buttons with pride, when they wore them to a dance with their honey.
I like Barack, and wish that he was on my side on the issues. However, he isn't (damn!). If he was, I would overlook much of his complete inexperience on foreign policy, not to mention his nearly complete inexperience on domestics issues, like energy and taxes.
I am left with McCain, because this old war horse has earned his spurs, and he has a grip. He has paid his dues, and I, at least somewhat, agree with his policies, especially taxes and energy. I agree with him on Iraq, including going in, and the surge.
"Finally, a republican I can support."
Yea, a woman who can hunt and fish and pump out the kids - that's how I decide who to vote for!
What a --- joke!
Oh this is amusing. You guys are not only supporting a politician with no experience, you also think Palin's going to nab the women's vote.
Sorry, as a mom, Palin's a disaster. She's got a baby with Down's Syndrome and she's gallivanting across the country. Hello? Is her husband home full-time with the special-needs kid or is she just outsourcing its care?
There are far too many women who make tough choices about childcare and career for Palin's behavior to be cool. When I think about the junk that gets dished out in the Forum when a mom goes back to work to jobs that don't require being one heartbeat away from the presidency, I've just got to shake my head over this one.
Having a special-needs child is a big responsibility--I'd like to know who's shouldering the responsbility here because it's clearly not Palin.
There are 4 million children with special needs in USA, 8 million parents and many millions more relatives.
Ohlone Par may represent a minority opinion in Palo Alto, but when those parents hear her sort of criticism of Palin and such people calling her a bad mother, I tell you the voter reactions will be overwhelming support for her and for McCain who has the courage to choose her.
A stunningly good choice by McCain. Almost enough to make me forgive him for his illegal alien amnesty plan, the McCain-Feyngold bill, and his newfound fealty to the global-warming cult.
I'd much rather have Palin as president than any of the other three.
Looking forward to seeing her shred Biden in the debates...
Forget about her kids and her total lack of practical political ability (running Alaska being the equivalent of being the President of a small island-nation), what will really sink her is her far-right extremist views, especially in terms of being a anti-abortion nut job: no exceptions allowed, not even in the case of rape or incest. That ain't mainstream America and it ain't going to play there.
That crash you heard today is the McSame election train running off the tracks and into a swampy ditch.
Actually, Alaska does have many relationships with Russia and Canada, certainly many more international relationships than Delaware, bidens state.
Palin is a meat and potatoes candidate, she certainly would not get elected in Palo Alto as she hunts and breeds, but for the nation she is the US equivalent of Thatcher in the UK.
It is a new morning in America again, go Sarah Barracuda!
Poor Gore was emasculated by the PC crowd, now we will see a real American woman re invigorate the American male again.
What people are going to overwhelmingly support someone who puts her ambition ahead of her baby's needs?
I'm enjoying this I have to say--Nancy Pelosi's kids were grown before she sought office. If Palin were a Democrat, you guys would be shrieking about what a bad mother she is.
I have no issue with Palin choosing to have a Down's syndrome child. I do have an issue with her then putting that child on the back burner while it's so young. I don't think she needed to step down as governor, but it blows my mind that she's about to run for national office.
When you have a special-needs infant, you have a responsiblity to help that infant and that's not something that can be done in five-minute phone calls a night while you're campaigning four time zones away.
I can't think of a single mother--of any political persuasion--who would feel comfortable making that kind of choice. Heck, I don't know many fathers who would do it either. Kind of a family values thing--you have to take care of them after the birth as well as before.
It cracks me up that the GOP thinks that this chick is going to get the Hillary Clinton vote. She's antiabortion, but she can't be bothered with her own kid--she took three days off before returning to work.
It's impressive, really--Palin has no national experience and almost no experience as governor. How did you guys dig up someone with less experience than Obama--for an elderly candidate with a history of health problems? And Alaska at that.
Getting high and mighty about racism, eh? Given the GOP's strategies over the years in the South? Have you no shame?
Man, this is funny.
well if you believe that only post- menopause women are fit for office then you are what you are, your vile comments about Palins motherhood will be broadcast on the web and boost her suuport
thanks for the help Meg
"It cracks me up that the GOP thinks that this chick is going to get the Hillary Clinton vote. She's antiabortion, but she can't be bothered with her own kid--she took three days off before returning to work."
naive. not all women share your values. she won't get the clinton vote, but she will take a goodly number of women, including working women who identified with hillary. this is a brilliant move by mcpresident .many women in the working classes, hillary's base, will vote for palin, bad news for obama because already 30% of hillary voters say they won't vote for him and that number remains steady. palin is a real firebrand who can come close to steaming up a crowd with rhetoric. she has executive experience. obama? oops. she will come after biden at an angle he can't handle. many working class mothers return to work within a few days of giving birth.
This has got to be the single worst choice for VP I've ever seen. Not saying that because of anything against McCain or the GOP. I don't like Cheney, but he was a qualified choice for the job. Don't like Lieberman, but he was qualified. Bush (1) was obviously qualified. Now we're looking at a candidate whose age and health history make the VP pick important, and he goes with someone with no experience in federal government, barely any experience in state government, and no particularly impressive accomplishments. Sorry - it takes more than a philosophy and speech-making skills.
She makes Obama look much more qualified and experienced in contrast - smooth move, McCain. If McCain questions Obama's qualifications now, he reveals his own total lack of judgment or total hypocrisy. The debate zingers will practically write themselves.
Maybe McCain asked in his interview what should be done on the Iraq-Pakistan border, and whether or not Czechoslovakia might play a greater role in the E.U., and she didn't correct him, so he liked that validation. Maybe she balances the ticket because she knows how many homes she owns and he doesn't.
"she will come after biden at an angle he can't handle"
- Did you write that with a straight face?! LOL! Oh, yeah... he's quaking in his boots about the small town mayor small state (govt.) newbie governor. On what question about leading the United States and dealing with the world do you think she'll outperform him? Not that VP debates matter much anyway...
"I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy." - and see what a diff that made.
Nah, I just think mothers of four-month-olds with special needs ought to, oh, mother their kids.
No one forced her to have that child and she's been making political capitol of it. So, certainly she can mother it.
Nah. Palin's got nothing to do with working women--we can't afford to outsource childcare of special needs kids. She's just another example of how out-of-touch McCain is. He could have picked a woman with actual experience.
Pretty much everyone I knew voted for Hillary. Not one of them will vote for McCain. Certainly, his bringing on an extremist as VP isn't going to get the traveling pants-suit vote. That would have taken a moderate.
And that clip where she says she doesn't know what a VP does--priceless. As for her being a firebrand--doesn't matter, she's got a shrill speaking voice. I thought Hillary's was bad--but, wow, she's Debra Winger next to Palin. No one's going to want to listen to her.
It's such a bad pick, it's kind of amazing--not since Dan Quayle--and she's even less qualified than him.
And, heck, at least he didn't try to get his estranged brother-in-law fired.
What the hell was McCain thinking?
sorry op, you live in the bay area bubble. working women in places like pennsylvania, ohio, and so on will love palin. she's a fresh voice. you may think she's shrill, but that's not what folks in alaska and others at the governor's conferences say. here's a piece that says it like it is
Web Link i fully expect that this campaign will be one of the more interesting campaigns in years, and that mccain will eke out a victory. expect palin to be on the national scene for a long time, if obama can come in with little experience (and no executive experience) a nice fox sendup
Web Link palin is going to eat biden alive, and she will play in the media way more than biden and maybe even obama because she's new and fresh...this is america, remember, and america has a 'tradition of the new'...checkmate!
The McCain camp has critized Obama as being too young and inexperienced in foreign policy, and not ready to lead, so Obama chose someone who can offset those charges -- someone who is old and experienced and has lots of foreign policy experience. Of course it was a political move to pick him. Pick the person who can most help you win the election. I mean, duh.
Obama's camp has critized McCain for being old and stuffy and too much like George Bush, and one of McCain's biggest weaknesses is in not being seen as someone who will bring about change, someone who cares about little people, someone who will bring in the breath of fresh air that Obama is seen as. Palin could not be further from George Bush and Washington. She has the same youth that Obama has and McCain lacks. She is a big reformer in Alaska, and is supposedly the most popular Governor in the US. The fact that she may appeal to the ex-Hillary voters is frankly a brilliantly political move. And it reinforces his reputation as a maverick, something the Democrats have been trying to erase during the convention.
This was a really smart move for McCain, as long as she doesn't have something in her past that will come back to bite him. This next week and the Republican convention might be tough for Democrats
The misogyny is strong in the force, Luke.
I completely nailed it. I predicted, the moment I heard the news, that the Liberals would do an Orwell and start asking why she doesn't keep her shoes off and stay in the kitchen.
What happened to feminism, the ability to choose one's life regardless of gender? What about all the working women with kids, with husbands, and nannies/childcare who share the load? And, I know this is hard to believe OP, but there really are those of us who actually work outside the home and have special needs kids....Whose husbands do more than their "fair share", who have nannies we trust to "mother" our kids, who believe that having more than 2 adults who love our kids is actually a good thing. Who are intelligent enough, like Palin, to arrange our lives that we can do a good job with it all. Not saying it is for everyone, but for some of us it works.
Keep it up, Obama supporters, your true colors are showing. You really want to tell others how to live their lives. The neo-fascists are showing their faces.
BTW, I shouldn't be surprised, after hearing the flat-out lies spewing from Obama and Biden in the last couple weeks, (the economy is bad..but it grew 3.3%??? Never let facts get in your way, Dems)...but where on earth do you get the idea that ANYONE is going to believe that Palin was "just" a mayor of a town of 9,000?
Honest to God, folks, wake up. She already had more experience running anything than Obama himself when he first ran for office in Chicago, and she is just a VP choice.
And Biden? What has he run? Both he and Obama have experience running one thing...their mouths.
And, what, exactly, has Biden been RIGHT on in this vastly vaunted "foreign policy" experience you guys keep vaunting? Name me a vote of his or a bill that he has sponsored that has been proven CORRECT in foreign policy that wasn't already supported by Republicans...
Last...I am completey opposed to afffirmative action..I think it is racist/sexist.
I am completely opposed to identity politics, preferring MLK's position of dreaming of the day when we are judged by the content of our character, not the color of our skin ( or the gender of our bodies).
However, given that we are still a nation with many fools who vote based on color ( for or against) or gender ( for or against), I think this was a brilliant and maverick move for McCain.
Don't like a lot of what he wants much, but gotta give him brilliant political savvy. Not to mention points for civility and graciousness in congratulating Obama in his nomination in ads on TV on the last night of the DNC.
Pam--continue you revisionist history of the primaries. It does not matter now--Obama is the nominee.
It seemed okay for you and your buddies to criticize Biden last week for his hair plugs--so why not criticize Palin for her boots.
Sexist is a term only used for convenience--the republican party has been sexist for years--the choice of Palin should be an insult to women all over the US since she was only picked because she was a woman
Unlike you, I'm a real Hillary Clinton voter. I know why I voted for her and know why I'd never vote for Palin. Palin may bolster up the conservative women vote, but real Hillary voters?
Excuse me, real Hillary voters remember the endless attacks on Hillary by Republicans and their pundits over the last 16 years. I had to laugh when Palin tried to grab on to Hillary's coat tails with the 18 million remark. (Not to mention the glaring omission of any mention of Geraldine Ferraro).
I think the election will be close--but the idea that working women are going to gravitate to a woman who thinks rape victims can't have abortions is a joke. And, as I've made clear, her leaving a special-needs infant to go on a national campaign (or is she going to just take a vulnerable infant all over the country?) is just creepy.
So, you'd leave a special-needs infant under the age of six months and hit the national campaign trail? You'd really, really do that?
It's not a question of a child with special needs where a routine's been established, we're talking four months old.
I've not met a mom of *any* political persuasion who'd do that. Most of the dads I know wouldn't do that.
Yes, we get choices--and with those choices comes responsibilities. When you choose to have a child, you choose to take care of it if you're a responsible parent. I know numerous moms with special-needs kids--they work outside the home, but every one of them has adjusted her job (and, yes, her ambitions) so she makes sure that child gets what he or she needs. It's not easy for them, it's not fair, but that's how the cards fall some time.
Oh, and just in case you've forgotten--Clinton put through the Family Leave Act--you know, so parents could actually stay home when they needed to and take care of their young. I'm being quite consistent here--family matters.
In some ways, I don't even get it. Why have a baby when you don't want to focus on it? Or does Palin oppose birth control?
To borrow from Ross Perot (not always a good idea), would you hire any of these people as a manager at your company?
Palin you'd offer the job to right away, and then you'd sweat until she accepted it.
McCain would seem like a decent choice, but wouldn't make or break you either way.
You'd wonder how Obama possibly thought he was qualified, and you'd leave him to be hired by some other company where they fall for people who say all the right things.
And you'd be telling stories about Biden's interview, and making jokes about it, for years.
Obama--young hotshot from an Ivy League school with great communications skills.
McCain--past retirement age not up on technology. Errratic record.
Palin--doesn't understand the job description, less than two years managerial experience at a mid-sized corporation.
Biden--safe bet, done similar work for years.
C'mon, Obama would be the screamingly obvious pick in that scenario. More so than in the political arena. There's a bias against age in the corporate world--particularly around here.
Palin could get a job in PR.
obama = high end rhetorical manipulator, very smart little practical experience, afraid to buck the system, shows very poor judgment picking associates and advisors, doesn't resonate with working class, has to work hard to sell himself to on-elites, sells himself as liberal but holds center and center right positions - - - - - - - - - mccain = smart back end political manipulator with deep experience. willing to buck the system and take a stand, sells himself as conservative but holds mostly moderate views, resonates with the average person, when he's up close and personal he's as compelling as obama's speeches. - - - -biden = long-time wonk who comes off as working class friend, but has brought many pieces of legislation in that hurt the poorest of the poor, this is little known, but it won't be little known for long, subject to making really dumb verbal errors, getting old in the tooth, looks less vital than mccain - - - - palin = little known up-and-comer, solid conservative credentials, walks the walk better than any of the other three, brilliant orator and firebrand, unknown, but once you get to know her realize she's someone to be reckoned with, same cult magic as obama when it comes to people forgetting details of performance and just listening to her, which is what most americans do
Say what you will, Obama was the underdog in the primary who pulled off an upset. Shows managerial ability and entrepreneurship right there.
I mean, I have to laugh when I read this stuff--don't you guys know anything about corporate hires?
What I don't get, actually, is why McCain felt the need for a hail-Mary pass here. Talk about a gift to Barack Obama.
So what part of Hillary Clinton's political views did you actually support?
obama was an underdog up until the first primary. after that he was the favorite. he crawled over finish line. mccain's hail mary pass caught by mainstream media, and crowd mostly cheering, not jeering. i supported most of hill's platform. obama has adopted much of it, but who can believe hi,? he said hill's platform was wrong, and then he adopts it? trys to please everyone, no character...panders...doesn't connect with lunch bucket...could be a mccain landslide...
hill voted against fisa. obama voted for it? you like being spied on? vote for o
OP, what you don't understand is that AT LEAST half of all women in the USA support Palin's views..and many more support many of her views.
I am a woman, and I despised Hilary. I despised her for undermining womens' integrity by "standing by" her serially unfaithful husband, I despised her for prostituting her political ambitions by destroying the women Bill "was with", I despised her husband for undermining years of anti-sexual harrassment progress with ol' Monica, then Hilary for not having the gonads to condemn him, I despised her for embarrassing me, as a woman in health care, with her very poorly thought out "health care plan", I despised her for despising me ( funny, I supported her choice to work full time and have a child, but she made fun of my choice to leave my job and raise my kids and "make cookies"..and be in the PTA and run my kids to soccer and piano etc), I despised her for her politics and for how, for the most part, they were destructive to the future of my children, ...
There is nothing you could have done to get me to support her...except have Obama run against her. I prefered her to Obama, believing she at least had enough savvy to not do as much harm as Obama, and noting, after a time, who at least was smart enough to not diss our country to the rest of the world..and at least she supported going into Iraq, until she decided it was politically expedient to change her mind and start undermining us and Iraq.
Hilary is out, Obama is in...Palin has more experience in all areas than Obama, and Biden has been wrong on virtually every position he has taken in his vast foreign policy experience.
The American people are not stupid, they can see and hear for themselves. Even if they don't agree with all of Palin or with all of McCain, McCain is far enough to the left ( as commented on above with the McCain Feingold, McCain Liebeerman, and Global Warming stuff) to catch the more moderate Democrats, and Palin is enough to the right to assure us conservatives that at least we will be treated with more respect than McCain has been treating us...they zipped up the election.
I have no doubt that Palin is more to the left than she is letting on for the moment. I am not stupid. She runs a state that has STATE OWNED oil,....automatically making her more comfortable with state solutions. Her state gives money to every Alaskan from the state owned business..She works full time with 5 kids..Automatically she is more to the left than I am. She is married to a union worker..By the very nature of her life and how she has run it, who she has married, she is more socialist in nature than I am, and she is less child-centered ( aka conservative) than I am..I am liberal enough to respect that every person has the freedom to choose how to manage their families with their spouses. If she were a man, would you be all agog about a man abandoning his children, especially a 4 month old with DS, in order to take this job? How do you know that her husband isn't the primary child care giver? Geez, how retro of you.
Ok, she looks good to me. I know I will disagree with her on many things, but above all, she is unapologetic and doesn't try to hide who she is. I have now seen her interviews, and read many of the articles about her from her years in Alaska as mayor and as governor. What you see is what you get, and I can trust that.
Funny, I heard Geraldine Ferraro in the same breath as I heard Hillary Clinton.
Someone is blowing smoke, uncharacteristically.
Conspicuously absent from all the comments on this thread are any about the policy positions the "4" have on the key issues.
Palin has none that are relevant to running the country at this point. That likely will change in the coming weeks, but at this point she is a blank slate, and whatever paint is applied to her canvas still will be wet come November. Pro-life, pro-gun, anti-corruption and anti-pork are positions, but not what people in the West Wing spend their time on every day
McCain--just what are his positions really? His reputation as a maverick seems to have been subsumed by his strategy to largely embrace the Shrub administration's policies. I loath Shrub, so McCains endorsing Shrub's polices troubles me deeply, but I am more troubled that he has "flip flopped." Where does he really stand?
Obama--has anyone bothered to notice the numerous policy positions he has spoken about, and has promulgated on his web site, among other places? Apparently not. The guy has articulated positions on many issues that someone in the White House should be working on. He can be faulted for lacking a long history of national political experience, but the guy clearly has good advisors and the type of mind that grasps the sorts of things the President should be dealing with. A big improvement over the intellectual sloth currently holding the job.
Biden--this is what Senators do. He will know what it takes to craft and get policy passed in Congress that the President proposes, and can draw, as Cheney has done, on his many years of Washington experience to formulate the policies. I do think that his policies will be of greater benefit to this country than have been the policies that Cheney has been responsible for.
I happen to believe that Obama and Biden are on the right side of the policy issues, and I also believe that they will be better policy makers. McCain can't make up his mind if he must cater to the Shrub/Rove faction of the GOP, and Palin is by all appearances a fine "trainee." I'd rather she do a longer internship in Juneau before she gets considered to work inside the Beltway.
huh? and what new ideas did obama have? 90% of his platform (and 50% of hillary's) came from edwards. the rest came from hillary. obama said he stood for one thing in the promary and then reversed himself on everything after he won. obama wants to be everyman, sorry. how can you loathe mccain without loathing obama and hillary and the most of the rest of the democrats (and the liberal press) who enabled bush and helped him pass so much garbage into law? you are pretty naive to speak about obama's policy positions; he doesn't have firm policy positions, he floats like a butterfly hoping everyone will stay mesmerized by his teleprompted rhetoric. biden is a good foreign policy wonk but no friend of all the pennsylvania democrats that are in financial trouble...think MBNA bill. obama and biden both supported the war. obama actually voted for more appropriations than hillary. palin doesn't have biden experience in foreign affairs, but she has way more gravitas as an executive. she's been running a state a running in it better than iot has ever been run, in just a few short years. she's really d-o-n-e something. what has obama done. mcain has been very clear on policy and has even taken risks that democrats have been unwilling to take. he's not bush, that's for sure. on key issues most democrats have voted with bush as many times as mccain has. think about it.
Web Link she's real
Go on the Obama web site, and rethink your remarks after you have some content that informs them.
boomer, where did obama derive his policy positions from. do your homework. edwards is where obama's forst platform practically all came from. the current policy positions on obama's website are a gift basket meant to please everyone. i only know where obama
c-u-r-r-e-n-t-l-y stands. obama is not the platform, the platform is the sales pitch. what if i voted for obama based on his support to redo nafta, or vote against fisa, or his initial position on drilling, or campaign finance, or health care, or any of the other stuff he has reversed on? let's put it this way; if yuo believe what's on that website, or even the gop website, you're suffering from kool-aid withdrawal. it's about delivering on promises, not slick willie crapola. we need solid leadership, not someone who talks pretty to win elections.
If you don't like those positions, you should not vote for Obama.
I don't like McCains vascillating positions, and I will not vote for him.
I do think that we need to vote for the candidates who will get us as a country as far away from the Shrub administration's policies and personality as we can. Obama and Biden do that in orders of magnitude better than do McCain and Palin.
bush has been an aberration in that the democrats and the press helped him along//this is because Bush had fear on his side//mccain is a moderate in spite of what people wan to say//the congress will be democrat, and that will bring out the moderate mccain//would be scary to have obama (with so little experience) ligislating with an open hand//he would be used by powers that be//massive disappointment would ensure//country can't afford that
No, Obama won the first primary, Hillary came back and got New Hampshire. It was a tough race, engendering a lot of bitterness and Obama slowly moved ahead.
Glad to see you admit that Obama's platform has a great deal in common with Hillary Clinton's. You are doing the weirdest gyrations ever, however, to convince yourself that platforms don't matter.
Let's see, who's more likely to appoint judges that interpret the law the way I see fit--Obama or McCain--Obama. Whose more likely to follow economic policies similar to HRC and Edwards--Obama or McCain. Obama.
And so it goes. I'm sorry you're so emotional about this, but I personally don't build your kind of emotional attachments to candidates. I've never been one to cut off my nose to spite my face.
Palin doesn't in fact have more experience than Obama in all areas. She has zero national experience for one. She has zero experience dealing with a large state. She has zero experience working in a large city.
You're being silly, frankly.
And, yes, I'd be disgusted by a guy whose political ambitions led him to neglect an infant with special needs. You choose to become a parent, you take on a commitment. Running for national office four months after having a Down's syndrome infant is NOT responsible parenting. If you're that child-centered and conservative, then it ought to bother you.
Joseph Biden did not run for national office when his children were young and he was solely responsible for them.
You think she's secretly liberal? I'd say she's obviously self-centered. She's made political capital out of bearing a Down's syndrome child, but she's not willing to honor her commitment to that child.
Or are mothers just interchangeable with nannies for you?
"OP, what you don't understand is that AT LEAST half of all women in the USA support Palin's views..and many more support many of her views."
Uh, you mean views like anti-abortion with NO exceptions, even in cases of rape and incest. Wants creationism taught in schools. A gun nut.
What kind of women are you talking about who support that kind of nonsense? Those under the thumb of their Neanderthal husbands, perhaps??
op is getting off on judging palin, that's her way to deal with this...just pull the lever for obama and see how it comes out...your panic is showing...
and this person huh?...HUH? (that made my thumbs hurt)...same ignorance that cost obama working class votes..mccain is going to clean up and then good riddance once and for all to progressive left kerry's obama's kennedy's, all talk and no walk...effetes, every one...they let bush have his way...you people are blinded by ideology just as much as far right...hopeless...i do love the panic reaction to this...obama's fans sense defeat in this...they see it slipping away...palin is going to grind biden into hamburger...i've heard her speak live...firebrand, quick study, and s-m-a-r-t
"...Palin has none that are relevant to running the country at this point."
Having just paid twice what I paid for my first car for a tank of gas, and preparing to write a real big utility check, I believe Palin may be the only candidate who does get it, including McCain in those who don't. Those who call Palin unknown only demonstrate their detachment from recent energy history.
"What kind of women are you talking about who support that kind of nonsense? Those under the thumb of their Neanderthal husbands, perhaps??" Huh???, your assumption that Palin is incapable of an independent opinion is reminiscent of Oliver Twist: under British law, a husband is accountable for his wife's misdeeds, prompting Bumble's reply "If that's the law, then the law is an ass."
OP, you state "Palin doesn't in fact have more experience than Obama in all areas. She has zero national experience for one. She has zero experience dealing with a large state. She has zero experience working in a large city."
Wow, the ability to deny reality is showing strong...When has Obama run ANY city or state? Run ANYTHING at all, even a committee? And Biden...which city or state has he run??
And your comment that you wouldn't vote for a man who had a new child with special needs because he would then be "neglecting" his child is breathtaking...absolutely breathtaking. The hypocrisy is overwhelming, and I expect I will hear a lot more of this anti-women's choice crap over the next 4 1/2 years..12 1/2 if we are lucky. Can you imagine any better opportunity for a kid with special needs to get EVERYTHING he or she needs other than as a kid of the VP of the USA, unless it is as the kid of the President? Your thought process is astonishing,...you really amaze me. We have disagreed on many things, but I never thought I would hear out of you this self-righteous, judgemental of another woman's choice on how to raise her family with her husband crap, then trying to use her DS kid as the reason for your righteous comments. Who is using the special needs child?
You claim I am being silly...???
Huh? Try reading again...she is not for teaching creationism in school. So, as much as the liberal press is going to try hard to spread this one, there isn't one shred to demonstrate this as true..not one. She stated something about creationism in schools one day, then the next day explained that she was talking about the free exchange of ideas, not the teaching of creationism as science. Believe it or not, it used to be a tenet of the liberal side of this country ( which is now called "Neo-Conservative") to freely discuss ALL ideas in school...This is why people who are REALLY liberal support discussing, for example, communism ideals and reality in school alongside democratic capitalism ideals and reality in school. It is called an education, not indoctrination ( yet).
As for "huh?" claiming that Palin is against abortion, even in rape..Where do you get that she believes this way for the LAW of other women? I have read it all...and not once has she said that. I don't even know if she is against abortion for herself in rape, not having ever read her commments on this. I can tell you one thing though, ... I know I will not abort, either, even if I am raped...and a lot of us are like this, believing that killing a child does not right the rape.
BTW, less than one percent of all abortions are the result of rape..More than 50% are second and third abortions on the same woman. Just an FYI.
You are throwing out comments that have no basis in reality.
And "huh?" Sorry, your age is showing. That kind of comment about neanderthal men, the man-hating, women are oppressed if they marry and have kids and don't abort crap is really retro feminism. We have gotten smarter than that, and believe in REAL choice..the choice to live our lives with the integrity we choose. Somehow, the Palin who runs a State doesn't jive with a "neanderthal" husband, especially one willing to take over the family while his wife goes about campaigning then helping to run the country. How many men do you know who have wives who have chosen to work full time while the men stay home?
As for her foreign policy beliefs...somehow I have an idea it will be along the lines of "Mess with us, and you die". Which is fine with me. The "Old West" needs a come-back in this nation which has become so obsessed with "what will other people think if we...?" while biting their manicured nails.
Whoa..just learned that Cindy McCain has a master's in Special Ed, worked in special ed, and adopted an at risk Bangladesh kid with John back in the early 90s.
Ok, the women are going to make this election a landslide. The women on the Republican side are incredible people.
BTW, now that I know about the daughter from Bangladesh, the name calling of McCain and/or Republicans who support him as "racist" is hilarious...I also have to really, really admire that I had to go digging to find out about his 2 kids in the military and his daughter from Bangladesh to learn more about his kids. I like that he has tried to keep their lives private, and not exploit them.
Not saying Barack has exploited his kids, I don't think he has much at all..or at least, no more than a candidate with young kids has to show them off publicly.
Palin has to show her kids off, too, since they are so young, but I suspect she won't do it much.
But not using your older kids is pretty cool. Sort of like Cheney not using his lesbian daughter and his love for her and her wife and kids as "street cred", letting people believe what they want about him.
Gotta respect that.
Posted this on the wrong thread in another thread. Re-posting here. Wish I could delete the other.
I love the lead in the Comicle today..."Steep Odds as GOP Gathers".
What? This time last election Kerry had 15 points ahead, and the Comicle says that a neck and neck race is "steep odds"?
As usual, not the news but propoganda. News would have been simply reporting "GOP Gathers for Convention".
What a joke the far left has become. The Orwellian nature of the far left continues to amaze me. Luckily the media turning into the Obama propoganda machine woke up the Hilary supporters, so now 1/2 the Democrats and all the Republicans are "in the know".. so now we have about 3/4 of the country who has seen the media for what they are.
Luckily the American people are not stupid, and newsprint and alphabet soup news on TV is rapidly vanishing as subscribers/viewers drop off.
Still waiting for the bated breath "historic" media pieces on the first female VP with a real chance of being elected! Oh, sorry, she is a conservative, so it isn't good news, but bad.
papers like the chron, nyt, wapo, and others ruled during the primary and set hillary up in a way that she couldn't come on strong. they accused her of being racist; they made jokes about her gender (often made by so-called liberal commentators). the progressive left is morally and ethically bankrupt. they have more than proven this. they help nobody; they keep the poor in poverty by preaching to the uneducated and working classes, promising them dreams. hopefully this part of the democratic party will self-destruct after this election//good riddance
Pam, you are starting to sound dangerously like a Neo-Con. We have come to the conclusion that the left is the party which has destroyed our education system and lowered the ability of the poor to pull out of poverty through incentivizing poor choices. As a result, since the take-over by Dems of our country, the prison population, which represented the general population in color in the 50s and early 60s, has now completely reversed, so that only 20% are white and 80% are "of color". 95% of teens in jail for violent crimes come from single mothers. 50% of youth in cities like Chicago drop out of even high school.
It is, indeed, time for a change. Time to throw out all the bums, Dems and Repubs alike, and put in people who know how to bring back the family, personal responsibility and education.
"When has Obama run ANY city or state? Run ANYTHING at all, even a committee? And Biden...which city or state has he run??"
two quick notes. obama isi chair of the special committee on afghanistan; he's never called a hearing, in spite of the fact that Afghanistan looms large on the horizon as a re-failed state. some experience, huh? almost all of his state of illinois legislation was written and promoted by others Web Link - - biden has consistently auathored finanvcial bills that hurst consumers, he and his son, a bank lobbyist, pushed hard on the mbna bill, making it far more difficult to declare bankruptcy//50% of bankruptcies are form medical bills...
This is funny, now you guys are trying to pretend that the U.S. Senate doesn't count as experience.
And, of course, Obama's run his campaign--done it well, too.
Pam, ummm, I'd back off on the Obama IR thing--Palin's IR knowledge is zip, she's pretty much admitted it.
Where have you been? I've seen numerous articles on Cindy and the kids. Typical stuff. First ladies of any stripe don't make or break elections. McCain's got master's, Michelle Obama has a law degree--so . . . ?
Well, yeah, they are both better educated and sophisticated than Palin, but who isn't?
Honestly, you guys all sound really uncertain about Palin--me thinks thou dost defend too much.
See, I feel no need to do that with Joe Biden. He's a solid, noncontroversial pick. Obama keels over, Biden will be able to step in.
McCain keels over--no one can say the same of Palin. Thus, your need to gussy her up as a wonderdog.
Well, except for Pam--her froth over Obama is kind of weird.
Well, have fun with this election OP. It will be interesting what you think after it is all done and you are through being defensive and projecting.
Luckily, this is America where we simply vote...and I trust the people of this nation to vote wisely. They usually do. Especially now in the age of free and open information, instead of the guarded information/propoganda of past years.
The only times in my life they didn't was when we, in our foolish youth, pushed Carter over the top, and when B. Clinton got in with a plurality, not a majority, because of Perot taking votes from Bush 1.
Oh well, glitches happen.
So you're pleased that Congress has had a Democratic majority most of the last 50 years, eh?
I think Obama's a risky candidate--so I don't think he's a sure shot. McCain, though, just did him a favor with Palin. It's Peyton Place up there in Wasila.
Interesting thing about your comments on free and open info. Obama is, of course, a true Internet candidate. Rove and Co. have used the digital age to manipulate small groups of voters very precisely, but the Dems truly have been moving from the ground up. Dean was the first outsider candidate who got traction that way and now Obama.
I do have to thank Shrub-the-feckless for creating a new generation of liberals.
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