Town Square

Post a New Topic

Amazing GOP debate

Original post made by Emmy Hill, Downtown North, on Sep 24, 2011

I am amazed at what i saw and heard during the last debate!One of our finest, an American soldier asked the candidates a question via youtube and was booed by the audience.

Not a single candidate thanked him for his service.

Booing our soldiers, not thanking them for their service.

I was flabbergasted.

Comments (24)

 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sam
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 24, 2011 at 6:52 pm

Combat units will be negatively affected by allowing openly gay soldiers. A patrol unit, with a gay lieutenant and one or two gay soldiers, will be suspect, because the lieutenant will be suspected of currying favor with his gay suborninates. It is the same thing with opposite sexes in combat patrols...but those don't exist.

The U.S. military is not a social experiment, like the Dutch military, which exalted in in its openess to gays. That same Dutch military did not shoot a shot at Srebrenicia. The Dutch are still trying to live down that shame.

This ruling will have a negative effect on our national security.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Eaton
a resident of Meadow Park
on Sep 24, 2011 at 8:29 pm

"because the lieutenant will be suspected of currying favor with his gay suborninates."

You are saying a US serviceman can't be trusted with the lives of his team members because he's gay?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by VoxPop
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Sep 24, 2011 at 8:35 pm

Samuel, you are quite wrong. There's a pretty good list of militaries who have openly gay people serving with no detriment to security: Of the 26 countries that participate militarily in NATO, more than 22 permit gay people to serve; of the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, permit gay people to serve openly. Israel, one of the toughest armies in the world not only permits gay people to serve openly, it conscripts women -- who also serve in combat...they don't view it as a social experiment.

Here's a list of countries who accept gays in the military: Albania, Argentina, Australia (20 years), Austria, Bahamas, Belgium, Bermuda, Canada, Republic of China, Colombia, Croatia, Denmark,Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Republic of Ireland, Israel, Italy,
Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway,
Peru, Philippines, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, United Kingdom (10+ years), Uruguay

Get over your prejudices.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Emmy Hill
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 24, 2011 at 9:36 pm

But why would they boo him?

And not thank him for his service to our country? I think they all had flag pins on their lapel.

Is the flag pin a lie?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sam
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 8:13 am

"You are saying a US serviceman can't be trusted with the lives of his team members because he's gay?"

I am saying that a perception of favortism by a gay officer for his gay subordinates will have a negative effect on unit cohesion. There is nothing new about all this. Ernst Rohm, head of the S.A. was a well known homosexual who favored other homosexuals in the S.A. In Israel, the IDF considered homosexuals to be a security risk, and routinely limited their influence in the IDF (until politicians forced them to accept homosexuals). The Dutch military leadership attributed part of the Srebrenica debable on an overemphasis of gays in the Dutch military, and a breakdown of unit cohesion (also forced upon the military by politicians).




 +   Like this comment
Posted by Perspective
a resident of Meadow Park
on Sep 25, 2011 at 8:28 am

Put it into straight terms for everyone to understand...A unit run by a man, with 2 females in the unit and the rest men. The men note that the women are being favored for less dangerous or difficult jobs by the leader, who also happens to have a twinkle in his eye for them.

That is why sexuality is kept out of units on the battlefield. Obviously, "in the closet" "don't ask don't tell" gays in the military exist. Not much of an issue in non-combat positions: Health Care and Administrative, for example. But, in the field, the difference is that there is a constant idea of "unit cohesion" not "individualism in the unit". The concept is "we are one" in a unit. We would have the same argument about a woman in the unit who can pass herself off as a man ( as has happened). As long as everyone believed she was "the same" as them, there was no tension around the cohesion. The moment it is revealed that she is a woman, not a man, there are problems.

This is one of the reasons women were taken out of front lines in Israel, as well. ( The other being they were a magnet for the enemy to fight harder and more, not wanting to lose to " a girl")

Nothing to do with "anti-gay" anything...

But, in the end, I think we have to let this play out in our military, as in others, and let the military decide what works best for their job...as well as for their survival.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Emmy Hill
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 25, 2011 at 9:17 am

Okay, perspective and Sam don't think team members' lives can be trusted to another man. That's awfully silly, but maybe you men know something I don't about other men.

Why didn't the candidates thank the brave man for his service?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by some guy
a resident of another community
on Sep 25, 2011 at 9:33 am

They booed the guy because they didn't like his question. They didn't thank him for his service because that wasn't the issue at the moment, the forum was not about thanking servicemen.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by shame
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Sep 25, 2011 at 9:48 am

The Tea Party is so shameful. Brave American soldiers should be allowed freedom of speech in this country, no matter what they are saying.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sam
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 10:53 am

" don't think team members' lives can be trusted to another man. That's awfully silly, but maybe you men know something I don't about other men."

What a silly comment! Bosses at work have a long-established record of favoring their girlfriends at work. Same with professors, including homosexual professors. This is not rocket science!

Unit cohesion, especially in small combat (tip of the spear) units, is crucial to their success in killing the enemy. This is why the Marine Corps is so strong in resisting a repeal of DADT. If there is a perception that I am running point too often, compared to my fellow soldier/Marine, who is gay, becasue he and the lieutenant share a possible sexual attraction for each other, then that unit will be severely weakened.

Our nation's military should not be subject to social design experiments, just because the homosexual lobby demands it. The mission of the military is to kill the enemy, period. Nothing should get in the way of that mission.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Eaton
a resident of Meadow Park
on Sep 25, 2011 at 11:14 am

The American soldier the GOP booed and couldn't bother to thank (hypocritical flag lapel pins and all) looked like he could break perspective and sam in half. The soldier's a stud.

To project your own sexism and harassment tendencies onto him is very seedy, and one wonders from what source such seediness stems.

May God bless our soldiers, each and every one. On behalf of Democrats, and the few (apparently) thinking Republicans, we thank each and every one for their service.

Shameful actions, or lack of actions, at that debate.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sam
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 12:01 pm

"May God bless our soldiers, each and every one."

Including those soldiers who do not want to serve in combats units with openly gay soldiers/Marines, because they want to be in units that don't compromise according to sexaul attraction?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Susan
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 1:50 pm

No reason there should be any issues with gay soldiers. It is just intolerance and hatred propogated by the religious right and the republican party. Sam and perspective are just showing us their homophobia. Their arguments are baseless and ridiculous (gay favoritism from gay commanders, the nazis and lies about the israeli military!!). Get over it, haters.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sam
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 2:18 pm

"Their arguments are baseless and ridiculous"

No Susan, they are very rational arguments. Your denial is ridiculous. If you simply flip the argument, as Perspective has done, and put it in terms of female soldiers under male control, you might get it. Our current military has had huge issues with females being pressured by male leaders...and this isn't even in front line combat units. I recall an issue, when females were first allowed to serve with men, in the Navy...it was called the "love boat", because so many women returned from that 11 month tour, pregnant (even though fraternization was forbidden). Sexual attraction is a force of nature, and it cannot be eliminated.

The homosexual lobby should not be allowed to control our military policies. It is very self serving, and destructive to our national security.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Susan
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 2:41 pm

Sorry, sharon (whoops, I mean sam) your arguments are ridiculous and biased. There is no problem to address. The military and congress has made a decision. Militaries all over the world allow gays to openly serve and it is not an issue. Also do not forget that because of intolerance, that is continuesd to be fostered by you, 9/11 occurred. Yes, we booted out of the service arab translators because they were gay. Messages that could have been used to stop the attack sat untranslated. That is what is destructive to our national security. Hatred and intolerance by the religious right and the republicans, the partners of al qeida. And booing of a soldier by people is shameful.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sam
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 3:29 pm

"because of intolerance, that is continuesd to be fostered by you, 9/11 occurred"

Absurd!

If this is the reasoning of those who promote the homosexual agenda in our military, then how can one have a rational discussion?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Susan
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 4:37 pm

Sam
Call it absurd if you want. The story is there look for it online. It is a fact that 9/11 may have been prevented had it not been for the intolerance of people like sam. Now these same people are booing soldiers serving in combat situations. Shameful, shocking and disgraceful. Hatred and intolerance trumps national security for people like sam and his fellow republicans. It is ridiculous comments from people like sam (gay commanders favoring gay soldiers, the SS and lies about the IDF) that preclude a rational discussion


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sam
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 4:52 pm

" It is a fact that 9/11 may have been prevented had it not been for the intolerance of people like sam."

What complete nonsense!

We were attacked by OBL on 9-11. He, along with his followers, wanted to conquer the world for Islam. End of story.

Bill Clinton had a chance to kill OBL, but he flinched, as he was pursuing/reacting to Monica (that old sexual attraction thing).

Back to basics: Opening up the U.S. military to open homosexuality will diminish unit cohesion, and it will make us less safe.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Susan
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 5:42 pm

Sam(sharon) tries to cover up the fact that 9/11 could have been prevented had we not discharged arab translators with nonsense about OBL and bill clinton!! I must have sam (sharon) on the run since he/she is reverting to form-muddy the waters with nonsense. Unit cohesion will not be affected by gays in the military. It has been proven elsewhere to not be an issue. Amazing that people like sam (sharon) would jeopardize our national security to further their agenda of intolerance. Of course, sam ( sharon) is one of those people that would unapologetically boo a gay soldier serving in combat!! Sam (sharons) claims are absurd.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Argument?
a resident of Menlo Park
on Sep 25, 2011 at 6:13 pm

Well, Susan, I understand that you consider Sam and Sharon ridiculous, but how do you think about the issue they have raised?

Do you think that sexual tension is not an issue for our armed forces?
That it is an issue, but can be dealt with via regulations?
That there will be no more sexual tension with explicit gay presence than there has been all along?

What is the right way to view this issue, and to understand that it is not an issue?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Susan
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 6:49 pm

Sam/sharon have not really raised any issues of substance and importance. The brass had made a decision, the troops will obey. These comments about unit cohesion were also bright up when the service was integrated. In the meantime out national security had been jeopardized by intolerance. 9/11 may have been prevented.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Eaton
a resident of Meadow Park
on Sep 25, 2011 at 7:09 pm

Deviate much? This isn't a 9/11 thread.

Why did the audience boo an American soldier lawfully serving on our behalf?

Why did the candidates not express appreciation for an American soldier?

They should turn in their flag pins.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Susan
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 9:00 pm

Eaton
Because he is gay.because the republicans hate gay people. Because saying anything positive to a gay person would upset te right wing zealots that control the republican party. Intolerance is more important than national security our expressing thanks to certain of our soldiers.sussu


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 25, 2011 at 9:27 pm



Rick Perry was leading in Florida polling by 9 points going into Thursday's Tampa debate.

Perry did so badly in that debate and Cain did so extraordinarily well that much of Perry's support weakened in the aftermath.

Florida's delegates were ripe for the picking and Cain saw his opportunity to set the Texas brush afire with 9-9-9 common sense.

People can call Cain's win in Florida anything they wish but at the very least, it demonstrates his keen political instincts without ever having won a single election.


Don't miss out on the discussion!
Sign up to be notified of new comments on this topic.

Email:


Sorry, but further commenting on this topic has been closed.

Local picks on 2015 Michelin Bib Gourmand list
By Elena Kadvany | 6 comments | 3,351 views

Ode to Brussels Sprout
By Laura Stec | 20 comments | 2,567 views

Go Giants! Next Stop: World Series!
By Chandrama Anderson | 1 comment | 1,911 views

Politics: Empty appeals to "innovation"
By Douglas Moran | 9 comments | 1,231 views

It's Dog-O-Ween this Saturday!
By Cathy Kirkman | 2 comments | 221 views