Israel's War of Terror Issues Beyond Palo Alto, posted by Tej Uberoi, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Jun 20, 2007 at 9:21 pm
It is encouraging that more and more voices are piercing through the silence so pervasive in the U.S. media regarding Israel’s war of terror on the Palestinians.
In the UK, the British Union of Journalists (BUOJ) voted to boycott Israel and Israeli products and demands that the British government impose sanctions against the apartheid Jewish State comparing the colonial occupation of Palestine to that of South Africa.
At the UN, the new Human Rights Council has passed eight resolutions condemning Israel for gross human rights violations. It has accused Israel for its savage attack on Lebanon last year and its saturated bombardment of (banned) cluster bombs.
Former U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq, Scott Ritter, accuses Israel of pressuring the US into war with Iran in his new book. ‘Target Iran’ and urges more people to break the silence in condemning Israel’s state sponsored terrorism to counter the massive propaganda efforts of Israel and the neo-cons of the Bush administration.
The Bush doctrine has now delivered a death blow to Palestinians dreams of justice and statehood. Omitted from the U.S. media is the ongoing slaughter of Palestinians. For example, in 2006 Israel killed 700 Palestinians, half of whom were civilians, including 141 children. In the same period Palestinians killed 23 Israelis. Israel has delivered arms to the unelected Fatah and has succeeded in driving a wedge between the Palestinian groups. Gaza has been hermetically sealed from the outside world and its people – men, women and children are on the border of starvation. To add to their misery, Israel continues its military assault on the impoverished people of Gaza.
Posted by Boaz, a resident of the Greater Miranda neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 5:51 am
Tej--clearly you have not been reading/watching the news these past few weeks. hamas, a recognized terrorist organization has taken over Gaza and in doing so has executed people on the streets, thrown handcuffed off of buildings etc.
Thousands of Palestinians are lining up at the Erez crossing to escape from gaza (and hamas) to the West Bank. The majority of people in gaza now wish that Israel was still in control of the Gaza Strip.
Your last sentence shoudl replace "Israel" with "Hamas"
Posted by joe cohen, a resident of Los Altos, on Jun 21, 2007 at 7:00 am
As sad as the dispossession of the Native Americans was, at least they now have equal citizenship rights with everyone else. They are free to move around and engage in all aspects of life in society if they so choose. Hence the US is not an apartheid state.
Palestinians, on the other hand, are openly viewed by Israelis as a "demographic threat" to the pure Jewish nature of the state (does this remind you of anything?) and their movement is restricted in large open air prisons where they have no rights whatsoever (Israel doesn't even recognize that the Geneva Conventions apply to the occupied territories).
Also Israel's wars, starting the 1940's, were hardly defensive. Stealing the land of another people can never be defensive!
Posted by dave, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 7:03 am
Israel's gamble is that by splitting palestinian areas it can retain the status quo in West Bank. Keep running Fatahstan as a huge prison, show Hamastan's suffering as a scary example, feed scrap favors to Fatah leaders and continue appropriation of land for settlement "facts-on-ground". I would not be surprised if Hamas was outlawed in Fatahstan to ensure one party elections. The only miscalculation might happen if palestinians realize that Fatah will never deliver them state and without Hamas as a vent start turning to Al Qaida types for solace. Israel might be here playing into Bin Laden's hand.
Posted by gerald, a resident of the Downtown North neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 7:10 am
There is no doubt that a faction within Fatah -- overtly funded, trained and steered by the US and Israel - is the primary suspect behind the flare-up of this bloody internecine strife, which many observers view as a thinly veiled attempt to destabilize Hamas's democratically-elected government, coercing it into accepting Israeli dictates that it had so far balked from. Furthermore, any decent legal expert will readily admit that the so-called "emergency government," declared by the Palestinian Authority chairman, Mahmoud Abbas, in response to Hamas's take-over in Gaza, violates several articles in the Basic Law, the equivalent of the PA's constitution.
While the corruption, lawlessness, profiteering and even betrayal of sections of Fatah have been known and well documented for some time now, the brutal, reckless and in some cases criminal tactics used by armed groups within Hamas were fresh reminders to neutral bystanders who were willing to give the group the benefit of the doubt that it, too, contains a strong, power-hungry faction that is eager to sacrifice principles and human rights to reach its political objectives. Hamas cannot be exonerated from the accusation that, by participating in the legislative and municipal elections according to laws and parameters set by the Oslo agreements, it has already contributed to legitimizing the products of those agreements and forsaken its claim to being a resistance movement that is primarily dedicated to realizing the main tenets of the Palestinian national program of liberation and self-determination. On top of that, and unlike the far more sophisticated and responsible Hizbullah in Lebanon, Hamas, in the last year and a half of ruling at various levels, has revealed its inherent tendency, like all Islamist movements, to impose its exclusionary ideological and social order, and to dismiss and whenever possible suppress diverse views and cultural outlooks that conflict with that order.
Posted by Boaz, a resident of the Greater Miranda neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 7:10 am
Israel's wars, starting in 1940's were hardly defensive? It is clear that the arab nations invaded Israel in 1948 and were repulsed. WE have already rehashed the 1967 on this forum previously and the 1973 war was started when Israelw as attcked by Egypt and Syria.
their movement is restricted in large open air prisons where they have no rights whatsoever? Didn't Israel a number of months ago turn over gaza to Palestinian rule--didn;t they hold democratic elections also?
The palestinians (and in particular Hamas) are not a "demographic" threat--they are a terrorist threat to Israel. they have made their goals clear. Anyway look how hamas and fatah are killing one another. As I said the palestinians in gaza (and probably in the west bank) are sick of what is going on--they want peace with Israel and a two-state solution. But they are afraid to speak out--lest hamas do to them what they did to the fatah people in gaza.
Posted by joe cohen, a resident of Los Altos, on Jun 21, 2007 at 8:43 am
The Israelis, just like their bantustan building apartheid heroes in S. Africa used to do, believed that they could separate Gaza from the W.Bank. Hamas wasn't going to accept the bantustanization of the w.bank in which Israel was surrounding enclaves of helpless arabs with Jewish settlements and for Jews only roads. The brutal colonialization of the w.bank by Israel has brutal consequences not only for Arabs, but for Jewish civilians as well. Hamas would never have risen to power if it weren't for the draconian occupation and treatment of the Palestinians in the occupied territories by the settlers and the IDF, and Israel has only herself to blame for the current mess.
Posted by Boaz, a resident of the Greater Miranda neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 9:01 am
Really, joe, I thought the rise of Hamas had something to do with the corruption, wholesale stealing of funds intended for the people, lavish lifestyles etc of the Fatah leadership, including the late Arafat.
In addition to the failure of the Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel's right to exist, renounce terrorism and accept a two-state solution.
While ISrael has made mistakes along the way, Israel has always been willing to sign peace treaties an dgive back territories to it's arab neighbors, the Palestinians are mostly to blame for the situation they are in today.
They are stewing in their own juices and I am loving it.
Posted by joe cohen, a resident of Los Altos, on Jun 21, 2007 at 9:08 am
No, Israel has been 'willing' to sign peace treaties provided the palestinians agreed to live in discontinuous enclaves surrounded by Jewish colonies while Israel controls the water resources and air space. The PA corruption is a big problem for the palestinians, but Israel has a very corrupted political system as well, considered the most corrupted in the industrial world alongside Italy.
Posted by Boaz, a resident of the Greater Miranda neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 9:23 am
Well the west bank was obtained from Jordan (which by the way is a majority "Palestinian" country) in 1967 and Gaza from Egypt in 1967--so they were discontinuous areas to begin with.
israel's political system is considered the most corrupt based on whose determination? Anyway you are comparing different kinds of corruption--the corruption by the Palestinian leadership has deprived the people in the street of hundreds of millions of dollars sent to make their lives better ( of course that was the plan all along--keep the people poor, broken in spirit and unhappy, while blaming Israel for thier misery).
Posted by joe cohen, a resident of Los Altos, on Jun 21, 2007 at 12:41 pm
1. Israeli economic corruption has increased since the year 2000, making it one of the most fraudulent in the world, local and international reports showed on Wednesday.
A 2005 World Bank report said Israel was one of the most hazardous nations, citing its unstable and inefficient government and its relatively high level of corruption among its leadership, as well a low ranking in law enforcement.
2.The corruption of the Israeli political system has deprived the Israeli public not only of an untold amounts of money, but more importantly, of an opportunity to live in peace. Between the endemic corruption of the Israeli government and society society and the profound corruption of the Arab governments and societies, is it a wonder the PA is so corrupted? They had many role models. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
Posted by Marvin, a resident of the Greater Miranda neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Joe--I am not sure where you get your source material from, but it is apparent that your aim is to establish the "fact" that Israel is an evil empire and that all the Palestinian's problems are Israel's fault.
Not sure where you got the conclusions that you make in point 2 but you have it all wrong it is the PALESTINIAN governemnt's corruption that has deprived the PALESTINIAN public of untold amounts of money. Changing Palestinian to Israel in a sentence does not make it true.
But the Palestinian do not need to accept any responsibility for the situation they are in--they can blame it all on the Jews/Israel. You would think they would get fed up with that line and want to better their lives--but apparently not.
I am expressing my opinion--if they are, to you, the same as Likud propaganda, that is okay with me. I offer my opinions--what people think of them is their business
Posted by dave, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 1:14 pm
The PA corruption is a huge problem that is hurting their people. However, it's ludicrous to expect them to be corruption free when all the countries around them, including Israel, have profoundly corrupt governments and political system. The World Bank have found Israel to be, along with Italy, the most corrupt society in the industrial world. Almost any Israeli will tell you, should you choose to listen, of the profound corruption across the Israeli political and financial institutions, including the military. The corruption in Israel actually seems to grow and seems to be irreversable. In a perfect world, the Palestinians would get rid of their own corruption, but somehow, watching the countries surrounding them and being under 40 year of brutal occupation, that seems naive to expect.
Posted by Boaz, a resident of the Greater Miranda neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 1:31 pm
So the problems that the Palestinian's have are the fault of "Israeli corruption" now?
Why don;t you post some links to show the "profound corruption across the Israeli political and financial institutions, including the military."? Do you think the "profoundly corrupt governments and political system" in the arab countries are to blame at all for the palestinian's situation?
i understand that it is easy to dump on Israel and blame all of the woes of the world on them.
Israel will deal and has dealt with the issues of corruption (that are found in every government in the world)--the Palestinians are apparently not able to deal with anything--so they will remain simmering in their own juices for now.
Posted by joe cohen, a resident of Los Altos, on Jun 21, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Israel has never dealt with its own corruption. After everyelection cycle, the corruption increases. Pick up every Israeli newspaper and you'll find almost daily information about corruption scandals across all Israeli institutions. Unlike the despotic and undemocratic arab states, Israel has a free press, so the information about the corruption in Israel is freely available. What doesn't exist in Israel is a national will to reduce or eliminate it. Everybody wants the palestinians to clean up their corruption problems. However, it's unrealistic to expect people with no tradition of democracy and transparency who are also the subjects of a brutal occupation to do so quickly, when the famous Israeli democracy is so corrupt and the arab countries are even worse.
Posted by Boaz, a resident of the Greater Miranda neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 1:59 pm
"the famous Israeli democracy is so corrupt", "Israel has never dealt with its own corruption. ", "What doesn't exist in Israel is a national will to reduce or eliminate it."
Well given all the above statements (and I will not comment if they are true or not. i will not even address the issue of whether the above poster is exaggerating in any manner (i.e. "Pick up every Israeli newspaper and you'll find almost daily information about corruption scandals across all Israeli institutions") , Israel has still managed to build a great country--they have world famous scientists, businessmen, innovators etc. they have made profound and world famous breakthroughs in farming, health sciences, business and education, to name just a few areas. They are doing pretty well considering all the "corruption" that exists (according to some people)--what this really has to do with the Palestinian's plight I do not know--other than to try to accuse Israel of the same woes that plagues the Palestinian government.
Boy if the Palestinains would only have a country as "corrupt" as Israel they wouldn;t be in the situation they are in today. But it is easier to make excuses, refuse to take responsibility for your own actions, renounce terror and blame Israel for all of your woes
Posted by Boaz, a resident of the Greater Miranda neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Maybe when the Palestinian agree to a two state solution and stop trying to destroy Israel, then Israel can deal more seriously with "corruption".
So Israel has fallen from 10th to 34th--not great--but I assume that there are about 100+ countries below her? Not that they should sit on the hands and not address the issue--but I am not sure what it has to do with the issue of the Palestinians--except I gess it is an issue to bash Israel about.
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 8:54 pm
All governments are, to a certain extent corrupt in that the people responsible for passing out the goodies try to make some stick to them. Buying people's votes with the people's own money is also time honored. It is still better than killing everyone you disagree with. You can't always have everything you want.
Posted by Anonomus, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Jun 21, 2007 at 10:12 pm
It's too dangerous to say anything against Isarel to use one's name.\
Israel was created by waging war against people living in what is called the Palestaion region. The British army was trying to maintain order in the region, but the Zionists carrying out terror attacks and bombings, gave up and left.
The zionists produce so many myths and untruths. They demonize the palestanian people.
Hundreds of Israel's military went on strike about the brutality being directed toward the Palestanian people.
If Israel claims that they historically own the land the American Indians own most of the U.S. land, they just need the weapons to reclaim it.
I seem to recall that Germany tried to claim much land in Europe in the 30's and early 40's. They weren't seen as a ethical, desirable, and fair group. Was their problem they didn't get all of the Germans is the U.S. to pressure our leaders to support them with money and weapons? Who were the terrorists then? The Jews? I don't think so. Even though they probably killed civilian germans I don't think the world would call them terrorists.
I encourage everyone watch Demoracy Now and INN news programs to get some of both sides of the issues.
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Jun 22, 2007 at 7:43 am
To the most recent Anon: If you really believe that Israel was formed through Zionists bombing and terrorizing the Brits out of the lands and stealing it from the Arabs...you were born and raised in a part of the world that has no access to truth.
Welcome back to the USA where you can actually research reliable sources. If you really believe what you write, I can understand why you feel the way you feel. I would, too, but the problem is your beliefs are based on complete fantasy.
Posted by Asher Ben-Nathan, a resident of Stanford, on Jun 22, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Boaz, Israel is dead last among industrial nations as far as corruption. Terrible record and getting worse. As someone who has experienced Israeli and 3rd world corruption, I can tell you that the corruption in Israel is deep, permanent and as bad as some of the worse 3rd corruption I've seen, studied and experienced. [Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
Posted by Boaz, a resident of the Greater Miranda neighborhood, on Jun 22, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Thanks, Asher--i see we are back on the "corruption in Israel" track. Please provide some kind of citation or link for your statements.
yes, there is corruption in Israel--there is corruption in every country--I will however, as i stated above, stand by Israel's record of achievments over the years.
if you feel the need to use Israel's "corruption" as an excuse for the continued woes of the palestinian people then you are doing them a diservice--but i guess anything is okay as long as the palestinians do nothave to take responsibility for the fruits of thier actions--blame it on israel--that will solve the problem.
All the people that have posted re the "corruption" in Israel, be they one person posting under different names, or different posters have yet to provide any sources for their comments regarding "corruption" in Israel--all i read is a rehash of the "Israel is the most corrupt" mantra.
one does not need a "neocon master" to read between the lines regarding these posts. i leave it to people to decide their validity.
If you feel that I am not honorable and shoul dnot be allowe dto express my free speech rights, then contact the editors and file a complaint.
Posted by An Observer, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Jun 22, 2007 at 11:38 pm
I have read in the San Jose Newspaper some time ago that the Israel goverment is paying media people like talk show hosts to put a positive spin on Israel and what a wonderful place it is and it is a democracy, etc.,etc. .. When you listen and read about the great Israel just remember it is a paid ad by a foreign country. Your tax money may actually be paying for it.
One famous bay area late nite talk show host even said something like: (not the exact words) If only the world wasn't watching what is going on (in Israel/Palestain area) The Israel army could fight the palestain (non-existant) army and solve the Palestain problem. Meaning kill all of the Palestainians. This statement was/is being repeated over and over by this guy.
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Jun 23, 2007 at 6:48 pm
I suspect that referenced late night talk show host might be Ray Talliaferro, KGO, someone who has spent the last 20 years denying the legitimacy of the United States, condemning patriotism and Cristian values, urging Black males to shun the mainstream and whining because when he inhereted his aunt's property the county deducted the cost of the welfare she had received. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]