just a coincidince that Gabrielle Giffords is named on Sarah Palin's gun target poster? Crimes & Incidents, posted by an American, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Jan 8, 2011 at 2:17 pm
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is #4 on Sarah Palin's gun target poster. Just a coincidence? I think not. See the poster here: Web Link
An alleged right wing extremist gunned her down today, also shooting many others including police officers and children.
Posted by Gene, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Jan 8, 2011 at 2:59 pm
"An alleged right wing extremist..."
Really? Who has alleged that?
Giffords is a blue dog democrat, who held tight with her party on the health care deal, but she is very strong on controlling the border. She supports gun rights, and owns guns. Palin 'targeted' her for her vote on the health care deal, but Palin, herself, is the target of extreme hatred from the leftwing extremists. Some went so far as to accuse her of lying about her giving birth to her own baby...really disgusting stuff. Even more accused her of lying about being able to see Russia from Alaska.
A leftwing extremist, Oswald, killed JFK. Don't be surprised if this guy. Loughner, is also a left extremist. Early reports are that he was very upset about god being invoked on US currency ("In God We Trust"), as well the fact that US currency is not backed by gold. He is probably mentally disturbed, and out of touch with daily reality.
Posted by Shame on palin, a resident of the Charleston Gardens neighborhood, on Jan 8, 2011 at 4:45 pm
Expect to see more of the palin apologists coming out of the woodwork trying to select attention away from palin and bachmann. The suggest "2 amendment solutions"and use targets for their"enemies".wait until beck, limbaugh and the rest of the haters in this country start unleashing more vitriol.
Posted by an American, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Jan 8, 2011 at 6:01 pm
"I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."
- Sharon Angle, June 2010
There are several similar "Second Amendment remedies" quotes from the Tea Partyers over the last several months.
Posted by anonymous, a resident of another community, on Jan 8, 2011 at 6:31 pm
from the Sheriff of Pima County, today
Sheriff Dupnik also made a passionate plea for cooler heads to prevail in political debate, decrying the vitriolic tone of some talk radio hosts.
"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the Capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry."
Posted by Shame on palin, a resident of the Charleston Gardens neighborhood, on Jan 8, 2011 at 6:38 pm
Walters comment is Not surprising either . [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.] we definitely need to dial down the vitriol coming from the right wing.beck, palin and limbaugh are out for the money and take no responsiblity for their inflammatory comments.
Posted by Shame on palin, a resident of the Charleston Gardens neighborhood, on Jan 8, 2011 at 7:27 pm
Gene's comments are not surprising either. Bring in obama and resurrect the bill ayers issue.as if what ayers might have done somehow justifies the events in arizona today. Plus more excuses for palin and her vitriol. Funny how palin can say whatever she wants but those that speak out against her are haters according to gene and walter
Posted by Gene, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Jan 8, 2011 at 7:42 pm
I am confused. The Palin haters seem to be looking for an excuse to blame her for today's attack on the Arizona congresswoman. There is absolutely no evidence to blame this attack on Palin. It is just more of the vile hatred towards Palin. I am, frankly, more concerned that the hatred against Palin may be a serious security issue for her and her family. It is really disgusting stuff.
Time for the Palin haters to quiet down. The shame is not on her, but on her haters.
Posted by Shame on palin, a resident of the Charleston Gardens neighborhood, on Jan 8, 2011 at 8:11 pm
Clearly by so vigorously defending palin, gene must realize her potential culpability in this matter. Note how he is now trying to make palin the victim. It is obvious that the right wing blowhards will tale no responsibility for their vitriol.
Posted by ZenMan, a resident of the Fairmeadow neighborhood, on Jan 8, 2011 at 8:59 pm
Newsbusters, a website pointing out liberal bias in media, pointed out that this congresswoman was also "targeted" by Daily Kos back in 2008.
Look, this is a sad story. This is also America. We the People can should be able to share our opinions whatever they are, be they Sean Penn, Sarah Palin, Keith Olbermann, Glenn Beck, or plain old Joe Schmo's like ourselves. We should never blame the act of a madman on someone else's expression of an opinion. None of the above has ever even remotely called for violence. When people are speaking out, they frequently use metaphors! It happens. Now, lets all just calm down and look at this tragedy for what it is - a tragedy, not an excuse for more political vitriol. I've never even heard of this Congresswoman before today, but I can tell you that she's in my prayers tonight along with whoever else was shot, along with a prayer for us all to take a down a notch, and remember we're all on the same team.
3 days ago a former staffer of hers said he left and she was "dead to him" now.
The shooter was a long-haired, pot-smoking atheist ( clearly a right winger!). 2 former classmates describe him as liberal. He believed in the Mayan 2012 "end of world" prophecy. He believed his (and our) minds were under the control of some weird govt program. He thought this Congresswoman was 'stupid'.
How anyone can even begin to try to pin this massacre on a political party or anyone other than the total insanity of the guy who pulled the trigger is..well..insane.
All that said, to blame either leftists or rightists for the shootings from a mentally ill person shows complete ignorance bordering on mindless hate.
Better to inform yourselves on mental illness and how tied our hands are in addressing these illnesses 'against the will' of the ill in the name of protecting their civil liberties. His local community college had kicked him out of the school until he got a mental workup ( I guess one could take the point of view that this action pushed him over the edge, and start blaming community colleges if one were of that kind of mindset..but that is also insanity).
Posted by an American, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Jan 9, 2011 at 9:50 am
"We need to do some soul searching. It's the vitriolic rhetoric that we hear day in and day out from people in the radio business and some people in the TV business. When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government, the anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this county is getting to be outrageous. Unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."
- Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik
I agree with the sheriff. The shooter was likely not employed by the Tea Party (though there is evidence of some kind of conspiracy), but deranged people do not need formal orders.
Posted by anonymous, a resident of another community, on Jan 9, 2011 at 10:56 am
"DailyKos "bullseyed" this poor woman in 2008..."
Nice try. According to your mock-up, they targeted the DISTRICT, not the person.
How about a link to the real page (I can't find it) or the Google cached version? No mockups, post real links or cached links.
Your mock-up doesn't match the site. Your mockup put the bullseye graphic on it, didn't it? Show the real, whole page.
If they put a bullseye graphic on HER, I condemn it.
DO YOU CONDEMN sarah's bullseye on Gabbi? Web Link (and yes, there's a difference between a person posting something on D-Kos/Freepers/Newsbusters and a VP candidate!!)
Do you condemn her opponent that held an M16 target practice? Web Link
Do you condemn Angle's call for "2nd amendment remedies"?
Of course this guy (not a longhair, look again) is at the least, unstable. It's those unstable folks who should not be lead by violent rhetoric, most of which emanates from the fringe right and teabaggers.
You must condemn it. Morally, how can you not?
Obfuscate, change the subject, blame others all you want, but if you don't condemn violent rhetoric from the fringe right, you've lost all credibility.
Posted by How long will this post last?, a resident of the Greendell/Walnut Grove neighborhood, on Jan 9, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Anonymous: No, read the page-grab again. You will note a NAME there. Again, not blaming dailykos, that would be insane, but simply pointing out that no one person/party holds this prize, there is plenty of metaphorical "sightings" uses in our history.
Fortunately, thanks to the internet, I believe most Americans are getting too smart to fall for the spin the left is trying to put on this. Most of us know that mental illness can erode to this point and leave behind dead and wounded people, completely unrelated to "politics" or what anyone else says. Most of us understand metaphors and nuance, and know such utterances are not meant to be taken literally ( aka when Barack Obama said to bring a gun to the fight with those who oppose him). Most of us understand that situations such as this are the results of a severe mental illness...and it doesn't matter who said what, it only matters what the voices in his head told him.
I recommend you and all the left lay of trying to politicize this..it will backfire. It already is, frankly. Most Americans are sick to death of "not letting a good crisis go to waste" politicization, and have wisened up to the game.
Now, time to pray for all the dead, wounded, and loved ones in this tragedy..and hope that we can get a clearer way of dealing with insane, such as this young man, in the future. Every time someone like him comes to the forefront and kills people, I hope it will be a 'wake up call" to our mental health problems, esp. being unable to institutionalize those who are a clear danger to others. Almost all the mass killers who have gone off the deep end in the last 30 years are those with a long and known history of troubles, as is obvious here, and similar troubles to boot. No accident that this came about since we made it nearly impossible to institutionalize the insane until they have killed innocent people.
Again, my point is only to point out to those who wish to somehow put on their literalist blinders that the use of sights in ads is quite common in all arenas. Please remember the ad of Democrat Joe Manchin where the Cap and Trade Bill was used as a "target practice' and a bullet went through it ( he won election as Senator), and Obama calling those American citizens who oppose him "enemies" in speaking on Univision.
Posted by anonymous, a resident of another community, on Jan 9, 2011 at 12:49 pm
You can't do it, can you? Just denounce the violent rhetoric. Be an American.
I note you still can't provide a link to the real (or cached) page, just a photoshopped mock up with a phony bullseye graphic added (note: not a gun crosshair like sarah). And yet you blissfully ignore all the evidence like sarah's RELOAD tweet. DLC? Can't stand them, but again, those are STATES targeted with a bullseye, not PEOPLE targeted with gunsight crosshairs. Did they say "reload"?
Denounce violent rhetoric.
Just like when President Bush ordered the DHS to start a study (released in 2009) on right wing extremism:
"Conservatives derided and dismissed an April 2009 report by the Department of Homeland Security warning law enforcement officials of a spike in homegrown "rightwing extremism" fueled in part by "antigovernment" sentiments..."
Since then? the 580/Tides/ACLU shooter, the IRS plane guy, the Pittsburgh cop killer, etc... Bush and the DHS were right, even when the fringe railed against the report.
Be an American: don't obfuscate - denounce all violent rhetoric that leads nuts to think it's okay to use violent means.
C'mon, take a deep breath and just do it.
re: your ignoring of the central point of denouncing violent rhetoric - you can blame Gov Reagan for shutting down California mental health institutions if you want, but many of us here are waiting for you to condemn one of the other probable causes - violent rhetoric.
Posted by an American, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Jan 9, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Palin spokeswoman says that was absolutely not a rifle target on Gabrielle Giffords in Sarah Palin's 20 targets poster. It is really a "surveyor's symbol". Blames liberals for thinking Palin's "don't retreat, reload" slogan has anything to do with gunfire.
Posted by Gun Owner, a resident of the Evergreen Park neighborhood, on Jan 9, 2011 at 4:20 pm
"Palin spokeswoman says that was absolutely not a rifle target on Gabrielle Giffords in Sarah Palin's 20 targets poster. It is really a "surveyor's symbol". Blames liberals for thinking Palin's "don't retreat, reload" slogan has anything to do with gunfire."
Now that's real conservative courage for you. When the liberals attack, Palin not only pussyfoots, she pussyfoots from behind her shill. I'd have much more respect for Palin if she stood up on her own two feet and reaffirmed her targeting instructions. (The level of loathing, however, does not diminish.)
Any fool worth his second amendment rights can tell rifle scope crosshairs from a "surveyor's symbol." Makes you wonder if Palin's really the big moose hunter she claims to be. Maybe she's only a moose "surveyor."
Then there's Loughner, who can't follow even simple orders. He uses a pistol when his plain instructions specified a rifle. What kind of anarchy is the conservative movement coming to?
Posted by Joe, a resident of the Barron Park neighborhood, on Jan 9, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Given Ms Sarah Palin's long advocacy for Civil Engineering and her well known love of surveying, her shill's explanation must make perfect sense to anyone hiding in a cave waiting for the end of the world.
Having spent years as a civil/structural engineer, "surveyor's symbol" is an idiot's explanation. If you want to know what "surveyor's target" looks like, please see: Web Link (level staff).
Posted by common sense, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Jan 9, 2011 at 10:22 pm
The posters here who are trying to connect the shooting of the Congresswoman with conservatives are morally bankrupt, and so full of hate themselves. This is a tragic event and they shouldn't try to use it as an opportunity to demonize people whose political views they don't agree with.
More information has come out about the shooter, his mental state, and that he has had a grudge against the Congresswoman since 2007, when he didn't get the answer he wanted from a town hall meeting he attended: articles from SF Chronicle: Web Link and this article in the Mercury News: Web Link
Posted by an American, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Jan 9, 2011 at 10:48 pm
There is a big difference between "demonizing people" and demonizing the hate speech that may have inspired these killings. I think some of the Tea Party politicians have some legitimate ideas, but this talk of "Second Amendment remedies" and "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD" has no place in a civilized society.
Posted by Perspective, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Jan 10, 2011 at 8:48 am Perspective is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online
In response to the headline "Just a coincidence..."..Yes, I think it is, any more than it is just a coincidence that she was on a "target" list by the DailyKos.
We need to focus on the fact that he was clearly mentally off-balance, as is obvious from his youtubes, the fear he elicited from fellow students, and the fact that he was kicked out of his college until he had a psych eval.
This is the result of an insanity that I am not qualified to name, but which is in line with a long list of massacres perpetrated by loner, unbalanced, seemingly highly paranoid individuals who are waiting for a catalyst to push them over the edge. Who knows what the catalyst was? Was it the target siting on the DailyKos or on Palin's page? Was it the comment by Obama to bring a gun to a fight? Who knows? One can not possibly know what pushed his final button.
To assign a "political affiliation" to someone such as this is simply crazy.
Instead, we should focus on what we, as a society, can do to protect such people from themselves..and to protect ourselves. We can't institutionalize them until AFTER they have done something that puts them into the penal system. By then it is too late for the innocent. We used to be able to protect them and us better, but our "civil rights" mentality deinstutionalized the former institutionalized, and prevents us from taking sensible action against those who are a clear danger.
As for "denouncing" violent rhetoric....this does no good. Obviously, no sane person would take, for example, the old expression "There is more than one way to skin a cat" to mean "go out and do it", but we are not talking about sanity here. In the same light, no sane person would take Obama's proclamation to bring a gun to a fight to actually do it...I would no more blame Obama for this statement if someone actually brought a gun and shot someone than I do any of the "targets" on districts by either the DailyKos or Palin.
Our civilized, educated society understands that "don't retreat, reload" by Palin does not mean take a gun and shoot someone. We understand "if they bring a knife, we bring a gun" by Obama does not mean "go shoot someone". Any talk of squelching "rhetoric" is highly misplaced. Focus on the insanity of those who massacre, and what we can do to defend ourselves against that insanity.
Posted by Perspective, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Jan 10, 2011 at 9:01 am Perspective is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online
To Resident who believed a gun would not have protected any of the people hurt and killed in this massacre.
Yes, someone skilled in its use could have stopped the shooter after the first shot rang out. Preventing more shots= preventing more losses. Remaining defenseless is not a good answer.
R: Palin's spokesperson claiming these were not sights on the map..C'mon. I truly hope Palin does not "own" that ridiculous statement. That is an overactive friend trying to protect her and being silly.
By the same token, I suppose all these are really not "targets" either, just little circles, correct? Don't be silly.