Posted by Greg K, a resident of the Downtown North neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 7:06 pm

If landlords are smart, they will renegotiate their leases with tenants that are having financial trouble. In this economic climate, if you kick someone out, there is no guarantee that they will find another business to take their place.

Residents who don't want to see a street full of empty shops should try to spend more money locally. You save money by shopping and dining within walking distance of home since you don't have to pay for gas.

Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 8:14 pm

Greg

There is nowhere in Palo Alto that I want to shop, I would if I could. Where are the shops to buy affordable clothes for growing children? Where are the restaurants that I can afford to take kids with a children's menu of food they will eat? Where can I buy stuff that I use all the time at home and need to replace often? The answer is not in Palo Alto.

If we are to shop in Palo Alto, then give us the shops to use.

Posted by Good Point, a resident of the Community Center neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 8:20 pm

Res has a good point. I work in downtown PA and walk on University and Hamilton often, but I can't think of a time I actually thought to buy anything there aside from a cup of coffee or a sundry item at Longs. In fact, I got my last coffee at a recently opened vegan cafe; I believe they charged me $5 for a bad medium-sized latte.

Posted by I agree too, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 8:36 pm

I agree too. There is not much for an average person to shop at in downtown Palo Alto. Mostly specialty boutiques and expensive restaurants, for which I don't have the budget.

I live in Palo Alto and go to downtown no more than 4 or 5 times a year, in all seriousness. I know I have not been there since early September.

Posted by Shopper, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 8:52 pm

Town and County is upscaling even more. There is a new cupcake store in a prominent (that is, expensive) location facing El Camino and people were buying cupcakes at $3.25 a piece! for a cupcake! Something screwy about this place.

And all the new expensive baby-mommy look-at-me-I'm-pregnant stores. I found it a little unpleasant.

Posted by parking pays, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 9:01 pm

The biggest drawback for downtown has been the parking. Try having lunch with someone and then try to run two quick errands without a parking ticket. It can be quite stressful.

Posted by Palin, a resident of another community, on Nov 2, 2008 at 9:14 pm

Maybe Palo Alto should invite Walmart to open a store downtown. They can sell cheap disposable clothes for growing children.

Posted by What's wrong with that, a resident of the Evergreen Park neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 9:47 pm

What would be wrong with Walmart? There's one in San Antonio shopping center.

Posted by OhlonePar, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 10:07 pm

I don't like Walmart's policies towards its employees and its vendors. It's powerful enough that it can undercut small independent businesses anytime it wants too.

In a lot of towns, it's essentially a retail monopoly.

I like to support local businesses whenever possible.

As for Palo Alto--I like Coupa for coffee and a bite to eat in the downtown. Pizza My Heart is reasonable and pretty pleasant for a pizza joint. Cho's on California is probably the cheapest meal in town.

I think Town and Country has improved myself--I love having a bookstore next to a coffee place there and I'm glad Sur la Table's opened--greater variety and mroe reasonable than Williams-Sonoma.

I don't remember a time, except for a short period when there was a Ross Dress-for-Less, that the downtown's been a place for clothes shopping for basics--not with the shopping center being so close.

Posted by What's wrong with that, a resident of the Evergreen Park neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 10:17 pm

Hmm, last time I was in Mountain View, Walmart doesn't seem to have wiped out the other retailers. And the folks seemed to like the low prices there.

If we are going to take a stand against hard-charging chains, maybe we should go after Starbucks and Whole Foods (not too easy on competitors either), who actually sell high-priced goods to the affluent, as opposed to the guy who wants to sell good quality goods at everyday low prices.

Posted by Greg K, a resident of the Downtown North neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 11:46 pm

There are plenty of restaurants in Palo Alto besides the fancy 4 and 5 star places. The places along California St. and El Camino are cheaper than the ones on University Ave. But even downtown, there are moderately priced family restaurants like Buca Di Beppo, Cheesecake Factory, Jing Jing, Peninsula Creamery, and California Pizza Kitchen.

Posted by OhlonePar, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2008 at 11:53 pm

What's wrong,

I do, in fact, avoid Starbucks for similar reasons. I also shop at Piazza's and the Farmer's Market instead of Whole Foods--though I don't have strong feelings about Whole Foods--some good things about them, some bad. It's not the retail monopoly that Wal-mart is, however.

Starbucks has had a policy of putting in franchises near local coffee places--so I go to the local coffee place or Peet's, which is a locally based chain.

Walmart massively imports from China, which is how it has those low everyday prices. I know that for a lot of people that they need to cut costs wherever they can and they're going to shop at Walmart. I can choose not to, so I don't.

I think I've been in a Walmart three times--the one in Hawaii wasn't bad, but the one on San Santonio was dismal. It's not hard to resist the temptation. When I do the everyday low price thing, I hit Target.

Posted by What's wrong with that, a resident of the Evergreen Park neighborhood, on Nov 3, 2008 at 12:12 am

Sure, that's your choice to make. I thought you were implying that Palo Alto shouldn't have one; perhaps you weren't. I think it is a shame that Palo Alto "protects" some kinds of stores at the expense of others, and the expense of local shoppers.

Posted by Greg K, a resident of the Downtown North neighborhood, on Nov 3, 2008 at 8:04 am

The Circuit City store in EPA just announced that they were shutting down. Even big box stores are having trouble these days.

Posted by Too Bad, a resident of the Old Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 3, 2008 at 10:59 am

I like the downtown stores and restaurants. I also support my downtown and buy toys at Toy & Sport, art supplies at University Art, and eat downtown around once every two weeks or so. You can find something in your price range, I'm sure. How about a slice at New York Pizza or dinner at Jing Jing? Wouldn't you rather eat there than McDonald's or Taco Bell? I like the diversity and don't want the chain stores taking over. Do you remember how many mom and pop stores there were downtown less than ten years ago?

Posted by Carol Garsten, a resident of the Barron Park neighborhood, on Nov 3, 2008 at 11:07 am

As a Palo Alto homeowner and merchant at Town & Country Village Shopping Center for 14 years, I'd have to agree that we are in for an interesting/challenging retail holiday season. What is important to note is that if we are concerned about our local economy we need to all shop locally this season....patronizing our independant "mom & pop" stores not the "big box" guys.

Fortunately Town & Country Village is adding many new interesting stores and restaurant(s) before the holdiay season which will attract local shoppers. This year Books Inc, Ambassador Toys, Robert Krohn and Kara's Cupcakes moved in and this week Y&I Women's clothing opens...and before the end of the year The newly renovated La Belle Day Spa and Califia Restaurant and Mayfield House Cafe will open their doors.

Trader Joes won't be opening this year...we'll have to wait until Spring '08 for that much anticipated arrival at T&C.

Shop Locally

Posted by Marvin, a resident of the Charleston Gardens neighborhood, on Nov 3, 2008 at 11:20 am

Carol--too bad there is very little affordable "locally" in the way of clothing, toys, etc. One example you gave is laughable--we should pay more for "designer" cupcakes because it is "local"?Anyway, "locally" (I assume you mean PA) there are no big box stores in PA, except for Fry's. Independent stores tend to be more expensive and with tight economic times every penny counts.

Perhaps you can get the council to look at a way that they can "help" local stores---they did that for JJ&F and drove all the grocery chains out of town, so grocery shopping is done in MV or Menlo Park.

I will do my shopping where it is affordable, probably MV and Sunnyvale and even San Jos, and convenient for me--it is not my job to line the pockets of overpriced boutique stores, just because they happen to be "local".

Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 3, 2008 at 12:34 pm

It is not just price that prevents me shopping in Palo Alto, but also convenience.

Today my errand run consisted of lunch containers, a new bike lock, curtains, another pair of long pants and sundry school supplies. I was able to get these at one stop at Walmart and I was back in about an hour including stopping in Midtown for a burrito to bring home for lunch. If I had to do that in Palo Alto I would have needed several stores, several parking lots and several checkouts and credit card payments and it would have taken a lot longer.

Yes it is nice to be able to walk around a nice downtown area, casually find some interesting stores and look at the merchandise on offer before making my selections. But, I do this when I have free time, not when I have to mark off things on a list and get back to the other places I have to go today. We are a busy society and one stop shopping is important. I don't like Walmart for many reasons, but when it suits me to go to one store that does everything, I put convenience over everything else.

Posted by Observer, a resident of East Palo Alto, on Nov 3, 2008 at 2:10 pm

PA merchants, listen up! As a non-criminal who frequents PA more often than I'd like (I'd prefer my taxes go to my own county), I prefer Calif Ave, Town & Country & midtown for affordability (sushi, burgers, wraps) & even variety. I will buy nice gifts downtown, have an occasional meal & bank there, buy Prolific Oven goodies, but that's about it.

I love being to hit Cafe Sophia or Mike's, Walgreen's or Long's or affordable restaurants on Calif Ave, T&C or midtown w/fewer parking headaches, & a trip to the library on the way. So I'll spend more money on special gifts & other items that I buy at boutiques & bakeries, then affordable sundries & tasty but inexpensive meals more frequently.

To be very honest, when I hit downtown PA for meals, I often have a coupon w/me ;)

Posted by Wat Up With Marvin, a resident of the Charleston Gardens neighborhood, on Nov 3, 2008 at 9:01 pm

Seriously, are you going to talk about JJ&F? Why wouldn't you feel good about the outcome of that? A mom and pop store that was supported by the residents. I guess I don't know what you're complaining about. You should contemplate where you wish to live and just find your happiness there. We all know that Palo Alto isn't for everyone, but we're not bashing other towns the way you want to bad mouth ours. For your own happiness, just move closer to the kind of downtown you want to have. No hard feelings Marvin.

Posted by Wat Up With Marvin, a resident of the Charleston Gardens neighborhood, on Nov 3, 2008 at 9:04 pm

One more thing, Marv. I agree with Carol - I like what they're doing at Town & Country and I'll buy the $3 cupcake and feel good about it.

Posted by Marvin is ok, a resident of the Fairmeadow neighborhood, on Nov 3, 2008 at 9:31 pm

I think Marvin is from PA (just reading his post), so I think he is expressing things he'd like to change in his own town. Which is ok by me - it's not right to say that he should move - we are not a "love it or leave it" town.

On JJ&F - while it may be a fine store, the idea that the city gave the developer a concession in exchange for below-market rent for a specific store is just wrong. The city is subsidizing a commercial business - it's probably illegal, it is certainly wrong. I'd personally like the Menlo Park Safeway a lot closer to my house instead, since JJF means nothing to me. If they can sustain their business, that's great; if not, that's ok too.

Posted by Downtown advocate, a resident of the Crescent Park neighborhood, on Nov 4, 2008 at 7:51 am

I have to disagree with the comments in this post. I love being able to get 60% of what I need within walking distance of my home. Groceries at the farmers market and Whole Foods, coffee, drugstore, banks, dry cleaners, clothing boutiques that have unique items you don't find at the mall (many of which are not any more expensive than going to Stanford), and good restaurants. Granted, some stores and restaurants are not focused on children, but those of us without children appreciate that.

If you want Walmart quality, go to Walmart. Some of us don't want Walmart quality, and don't want to patronize superstores who treat their workers like dirt.

Posted by Marvin, a resident of the Charleston Gardens neighborhood, on Nov 4, 2008 at 7:56 am

Wat Up With Marvin--IMHO, the problem with shopping in PA is that there are too many boutique stores and not enough stores for everyday shopping--that goes for grocery stores also.

If you want to pay $3 for a 20 cent cupcake and do your everyday shopping at Stanford Shopping Center that is okay with me. I have no problem finding what I need in neighboring cities and do not feel the need to move because I refuse to help line the pockets of over-priced specialty store owners

Posted by Good for Marvin!, a resident of East Palo Alto, on Nov 4, 2008 at 9:59 am

The suggestion that you move to find a better downtown is of course ludicrous!

Many PA residents do the same thing you do, always have, always will.

Many who enjoy downtown PA are not PA residents, but some from the east bay and neighboring cities. It's been this way for several decades, as you probably know.

I hope PA keeps the diversity it has left. I love being able to enjoy affordable shopping and meals in PA, but it's ironic that PA residents rarely ever acknowledge those of us non-residents who support their community, when it's a huge # of people working and visiting PA who spend $$ downtown, mid-town, all over PA.

Posted by Gunn Neighbor, a member of the Gunn High School community, on Nov 4, 2008 at 11:06 am

Starbucks may have a policy of putting in franchises near local coffee places but at least it has the decency to not cannibilize existing coffee shop locations. Peet's took over the Cafe Sophia spot by paying more money to the landlord and ousting Sophia's from her longtime location. They did the same thing in Half Moon Bay to an existing coffee shop. I prefer a company that at least tries to compete competitively rather than one that takes over a location that is already successfully drawing customers.

Posted by Mr. BBQ, a resident of the Community Center neighborhood, on Nov 4, 2008 at 12:08 pm

I try to do as little shopping as I can in Palo Alto, it is a City of the "WEALTHY" and getting worse. There are "few" reasonable places for the average person to shop. Keep passing the bond issues and I will be truly broke. Palo Alto is not a place to live or shop if you are on a fixed income! All I do is Barbeque my Costco Chicken and Beef! Last time I was in Whole Foods they asked me for my credit report. It was 739 and they turned me away, go figure?

Posted by V, a resident of Mountain View, on Nov 5, 2008 at 5:29 pm

Property owners are raising rents all over the area. I don't know how long they can keep doing that, but at first I think they thought this was a booming economy. It's really unAmerican to gouge people like that.

Posted by time to enjoy, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2008 at 7:15 pm

How about lifting the parking restrictions between 9:00-3:00 (during the week) until the 1st of the year to encourage folks to spend some time in the downtown area. There are great shops like University Arts that are fun to explore and great for gift buying.