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French citizens object to Sarkozy's plans to make every 10-yr-old child honor Jewish child victims of holocaust

Original post made by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, Stanford, on Feb 16, 2008

"He is foisting on 10-year-olds an emotional charge that is way beyond them," Patrick Gonthier, general secretary of France's UNSA-Education union was quoted as saying by the Associated Press.

Other critics said the proposal would unfairly burden children with the guilt of previous generations."

BBC News coverage here: Web Link

Comments (37)

 +   Like this comment
Posted by Marty Cohen
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 16, 2008 at 3:00 pm

Rabbi--Do you have a point. The president of France made a suggestion--people are objecting to it. Sounds like democracy in action.
It will never happen in the Arab countries, that is for sure.

On a brighter note did you see that the big Hezbollah leader was blown to bits last week. I heard that wild dogs were eating pieces of his body before they could be collected. Clearly an inside job--they got to his car, even though he had bodyguards.

Now that is what I call important news.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 16, 2008 at 3:23 pm

Marty,

Ugh.

It's much worse than I thought:

Web Link

PARIS (Reuters) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy, facing a tide of criticism over his call for schoolchildren to "adopt" Jewish child victims of the Holocaust, hit back on Friday saying France had to raise children "with open eyes."

However, in a move that could sink the project, France's most prominent Holocaust survivor, Simone Veil, came out firmly against the plan, calling it "unimaginable, untenable, appalling and, above all, unjust."

Sarkozy touched off the controversy on Wednesday when he told France's Jewish community that every 10-year-old schoolchild should be "entrusted with the memory of a French child victim of the Holocaust."

Excuse me while I stick my head in an oven.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by perspective
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 16, 2008 at 4:12 pm

I greatly admire the motive of Sarkozy. France is becoming yet again one of the most anti-Semitic democracies in the world, believing again many lies being spread about Jews and Israel, and Sarkozy is trying to raise a generation of people who REMEMBER what happens when anti-Semitism takes over a country.

I would completely support it if it were being considered for every student in his last year of high school.

I would support it here, also.

Younger than that..no.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Cry Thy Beloved Country
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 16, 2008 at 4:53 pm


It takes nothing less than a shameless and false sense of moral superiority to smear France to be "anti-Semitic".



 +   Like this comment
Posted by Boaz
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Feb 16, 2008 at 7:41 pm

Cry Thy Beloved Country/Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson:
Well actions speak louder than words and the action of France in the last 100 years with regard to Jews and Israel speak for themsleves. And yes, there is a new anti-semtitism rising in France and I think we all know the cause of it.
When you use the terms "shameless and false sense of moral superiority" you must be referring to the French themselves. I think the Franch were summed up best on The Simpsons--they are cheese eating surrender monkeys.
As for sticking your head in the oven--don;t let us stop you.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by HELP !!!
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 16, 2008 at 8:01 pm


Boaz writes: "And yes, there is a new anti-semtitism rising in France and I think we all know the cause of it."

Flouridated water?

New World Order?

Sunspots?

Satan?

The Golden Spruce?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Joanna
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Feb 16, 2008 at 8:14 pm

Gypsies, homosexuals, those with defects, political dissidents... they all were victims as well.

Never forget.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 16, 2008 at 8:48 pm


Joanna,

Is there any reason why we shouldn't give equal consideration to all victims of holocausts, with very special attention to the millions of innocent, helpless Muslim civilians who were recently murdered thanks to the efforts of USA.

And please don't deny many millions of Muslims have been recently slaughtered.

Even Madeleine Albright admitted that 500,000 Iraqi children had perished thanks to UN sanctions, and that was in 1998 before that horrific figure rose to 800,000 murdered children.

And all that dirty business was before this latest campaign to destroy Iraq with Dresden-style bombing campaigns, depleted uranium, invasion, and occupation.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Boaz
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Feb 17, 2008 at 7:27 am

Cry Thy Beloved Country/Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson/Help:

You are correct those are all causes of anti-semtism in France.
Have you put your head in the oven yet?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Just Plain Facts
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 17, 2008 at 7:21 pm

France is learning the hard way what happens when radical Muslim immigrants come into a country and instead of assimilating, try to force their theocracy on that country. As the Muslim population has grown in France, so has virulent anti-semitism.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by pesrpective
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 18, 2008 at 11:23 am

I am glad that the falseness of certain absurd assertions is now so well-known, that we all ignore them.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by EXTREME IRONY ALERT
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 18, 2008 at 3:23 pm


Just Plain Facts,

Are you suggesting that Jewish leaders in France are hoping to use their political might to cram more Jewish holocaust studies down the throats of Muslim 10-year-olds?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Boaz
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Feb 18, 2008 at 5:10 pm

Cry Thy Beloved Country/Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson/Help/EXTREME IRONY ALERT:

You are just too much--posting under different identities, while ignoring the real facts about what is going on in France with regard to the Muslim immigrants.

I would be more worried about the fact that Israel is chipping away at Hezbollah/hamas leadership. Didn't they just plant a bomb in the headrest of Mr Hezbollah Terrorist in Syria--blowing him up so that his remains are now mixed with the garbage on the streets of Damascus?
Also Hamas "leadership" in gaza are all hiding with their tails between their legs--they know thattheir days are numbered also. there remains will soon be in the Gaza garbage dump



Have you put your head in the oven yet?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by news
a resident of Palo Verde
on Feb 18, 2008 at 9:52 pm


The outcry in France about Sarkozy's proposal has nothing to do with Muslims or racism or any kind of prejudice. As mentioned even one of France's most revered holocaust survivors, Simone Weil, is against it. It has to do with the potential psychological damage you could inflict on a young child by imposing INDIVIDUALLY on him/her the responsibility for a SPECIFIC dead child... That's too much a psychological burden for a young child. That's all there is to it.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Get Real
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 19, 2008 at 9:47 am

These children are not being forced to take resposibility for the child victims of the Holocaust. They are being shown actual historical victims in order to bring home the reality of the Holocaust, to combat Holocaust deniers (like radical Islamics).


 +   Like this comment
Posted by EXTREME IRONY ALERT
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 19, 2008 at 12:31 pm

Get Real,

Are you suggesting that Jewish leaders in France are hoping to use their political might to cram more Jewish holocaust studies down the throats of Muslim 10-year-olds?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Boaz
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Feb 19, 2008 at 12:38 pm

EXTREME IRONY ALERT--
Stop trying to put words in the mouths of other posters.
Go back and read the original story that you posted.
The idea is for all children to learn about the Holocaust, not just muslim children (though they may benefit the most from it) and the idea was by Sarkozy, the president of France, not the Jewish leader sin France.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Whatever!
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 19, 2008 at 12:58 pm

Boaz,

Are you unaware that Sarkozy is a man of Jewish descent?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Boaz
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Feb 19, 2008 at 1:07 pm

Cry Thy Beloved Country/Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson/Help/EXTREME IRONY ALERT/Whatever (or whatever new name you will use for posting);

What does Sarkozy's background/religion/descent have to do with the discussion? Or for that matter with the points I raised in my previous posts?

Or do you happen to believe that anyone who is of Jewish descent is secretly plotting to rid the world of Muslims?
You have been spending too much time reading the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". I am sure, though, that you believe every word in that screed is true also.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by EXTREME IRONY ALERT
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 19, 2008 at 1:10 pm


Boaz,

Are you suggesting that Jewish leaders in France are hoping to use their political might to cram more Jewish holocaust studies down the throats of Muslim 10-year-olds?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Boaz
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Feb 19, 2008 at 1:15 pm

Cry Thy Beloved Country/Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson/Help/EXTREME IRONY ALERT/Whatever (or whatever new name you will use for posting):

Don't you get bored posting the same response--read my post and read the original article you linked to and you will see the answer.
But here it is again in case you missed it:

"The idea is for all children to learn about the Holocaust, not just muslim children (though they may benefit the most from it) and the idea was by Sarkozy, the president of France, not the Jewish leaders in France."

If you have any problems understanding what I wrote, please let me know and I will try to simplify it.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Gary
a resident of Downtown North
on Feb 19, 2008 at 1:36 pm

"Or do you happen to believe that anyone who is of Jewish descent is secretly plotting to rid the world of Muslims?"

Boaz, the answer is, obviously, no. However, if you switch object and subject there is some truth in it. The jihadists clearly want the Jews dead... along with the rest of us non-Muslims. That is why they must be fought with real bullets.

Bush fully understands this. McCain does, too. Clinton is a little shaky, but she, too, gets it. Obama is spinning lies to his "hope" believers, but he will come around, I think. There really is no other choice, except to accept the burkha. Barak might be thinking that he needs to get his wife covered up at this point, following her recent comments, but he is not willing to put all the rest of the women in this country behind one (...I think).


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Be Serious
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 19, 2008 at 2:03 pm


Boaz,

Why would normal people want to teach 10-year-olds about the holocaust?

Why do you suppose Sarkozy's plan exclude mention of other horrific genocides in world history?





 +   Like this comment
Posted by Boaz
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Feb 19, 2008 at 2:11 pm

Be serious:

"Why would normal people want to teach 10-year-olds about the holocaust?"

It is an idea suggested by the president of France, that needs to be worked as to whether it is feasible of not to teach children that age about the Holocaust.
of course one may also ask you why do your people (muslims, in case you do not understand who I am referring to) teach their children hatred of jews/non-muslims; that jihad against the west is acceptable and that being a suicide bomber is okay.(I think you start your children on this at a pretty young age).
Some examples:
Web Link
Web Link
Web Link
Web Link}

So who is the "normal" one?

"Why do you suppose Sarkozy's plan exclude mention of other horrific genocides in world history?'

i suggest you contact Mr Sarkozy and ask him.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Abolish Israel NOW
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 19, 2008 at 2:49 pm


Boaz,

If it's appropriate to force a 10-year-old to "adopt" a child victim of the holocaust, then perhaps you would benefit by adopting a homosexual victim of the holocaust.

Or is it too late for you to refrain from making wicked comments about entire populations?





 +   Like this comment
Posted by Boaz
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Feb 19, 2008 at 3:05 pm

Cry Thy Beloved Country/Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson/Help/EXTREME IRONY ALERT/Whatever/Abolish Israel NOW (or whatever new name you will use for posting):

"If it's appropriate to force a 10-year-old to "adopt" a child victim of the holocaust, then perhaps you would benefit by adopting a homosexual victim of the holocaust."

As I have said the issue was an idea from the President of France that is now open for discussion in France on whether it is a good idea or not.
I would have no problem "adopting" a homosexual victim of the Holocaust. Do you have something against gay people also?


"Or is it too late for you to refrain from making wicked comments about entire populations?"

It is never too late to point out the facts, as I have in my links above. it is quite clear that Muslim children are taught hatred of the west, non-muslims and jews in particular from an early age in many muslim countries. Jihad, suicide bombings and other atrocities and terrorist activities are glorified as the way things should be done.

Clearly you have an issue with Israel as your name suggests--kind of ironic considering your last comment.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Gary
a resident of Downtown North
on Feb 19, 2008 at 3:15 pm

Do non-secular Muslim countries allow homosexuality? Last I heard, they killed those who commit same-sex intercourse. What would happen to a family in these countries who openly adopted a gay kid?

Just curious: Are homosexuals executed in Israel?

BTW, I am not a Jew.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by news
a resident of Palo Verde
on Feb 20, 2008 at 2:03 am

'Teachers defended the current approach to the Holocaust in French schools. Since 2002, fifth-graders have studied the Nazis' systematic destruction of six million Jews as a crime against humanity.

Older children watch films on the Holocaust, visit Holocaust museums and memorials and take field trips to concentration camps. Schools where students were taken away for deportation hang plaques in their memory.

"The Holocaust has to be put in the context of the rise of the Nazis and the war, not just emotion and dramatic spectacle," said Gilles Moindrot, secretary-general of the largest union for primary school teachers. "If you do this with the memory of individual Jews, you'd have to do it with the victims of slavery or the wars of religion. We can't have this approach." '

Web Link


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Historics
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 20, 2008 at 8:41 am

What is not mentioned in this discussion, is the fact that France was invaded by Hitler and under German rule. Many of the jews, gypsies, homosexuals and disabled sent away to concentration camps were in fact French. French families were often split with some members forced into hiding because of their own, or even their ancestors' heritage. "Good French people" were encouraged by the Germans to hand in the names of people who were descended or related to these groups.

For this reason, many of the school children in France have relatives alive who lived through this time. This is much more alive in the memories of the French than we appreciate.

This is not a history lesson of things long past, but still in recent living memory to many French and we should remember this. This country was not really affected at all by WW11 the way Europe was, and what they are doing now is honoring their past citizens. It is only slightly comparable to the Vietnam war memorial or somesuch in this country. I say slightly comparable because it is the only thing I can think of with any similarity as I know that there are more differences than there are similarities.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 20, 2008 at 12:11 pm


Historics,

What about the other 99% French history?

Why focus so much attention on what happened to Jews during WW2?

What about the other hundreds of millions who have perished in the last 100 years?

Isn't is racist to focus so much attention on what happened to Jews?

Why is Sarkozy hoping to intensify studies that are already taught?

Where exactly are educators supposed to obtain meaningful, credible profiles (to be explored by 10-year-olds) on 11,000 child victims?

Why is Sarkozy targeting the very young with this nonsense?





 +   Like this comment
Posted by Stop Whining
a resident of another community
on Feb 20, 2008 at 6:25 pm

It is much better than targeting them with bombs - like the radical Muslims are fond of doing.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Historics
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 20, 2008 at 7:01 pm

I am neither condoning or supporting this action. What I am saying is that we cannot judge this by American standards. History will always have its black spots, happened 1,000 years ago, happened 100 years ago and happening now. It will doubtlessly happen in the future. Sad, but true.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by French Citizen
a resident of another community
on Feb 20, 2008 at 9:38 pm

Sarkozy should have sticked -and he has already back-pedalled- to what was already taught (to 10 year old): Jews and gypsies systemic extermination during WWII.

I don't think that singling out one group of persecuted children from a specific period for adoption is wise.

Especially in a country that was oppressing North African colonies 50 years ago and still had, 5 years after WWII, laws banning 2 men to dance together.

For full disclosure, I've told my 10 year old American born son the story of my great grand mother. She was sent to a camp (and luckily survided) for having helped countless of Jewish kids move from Northern France (occupied) to Southern France ("free"). She was using my father (who was 3-4 years old at the time) as a cover.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by perpsective
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 21, 2008 at 12:32 pm

French citizen: How can you say that France was "oppressing" colonies, when the "oppressors" raised the standard of living of all colonists, and when they left, every singly colony reverted backward in education, freedoms and standard of living?

Why do you think that so many former "oppressed" colonists flow into France? Is it because they are so much happier without French rule in their native countries?

I was raised before the pap that is taught in France today. You were raised with the pap. Think a little more about the country of France's historical effects before you condemn all the colonists and all the country for its "oppression".Of course there were abuses, as there always have been and always will be in any human institution..but it was not all "oppression"..


 +   Like this comment
Posted by French citizen
a resident of another community
on Feb 21, 2008 at 2:20 pm

to "perspective":

I never said it was "all" oppression and I was merely making a point that it was misguided to single out one group for adoption.

In the interest of further disclosure, my dad served as a paratrooper during the last French colonial war (Algeria) which gives me some real perspective on that recent historical period.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by perspective
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 21, 2008 at 4:45 pm

point taken..the chip on my shoulder was showing...sorry about that..I am sick of the "all good, all bad" generalizations we tend to make, and am starting to react to anything that looks like that to me.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by perspective
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 21, 2008 at 4:47 pm

oh, btw, my family got out with what they could carry just before Morroco booted out France. No paratroopers in there, though!


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