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on Nov 20, 2007
While it appears we should have compassion for the soldiers who were duped by the warmongering Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld junta, there is no place in our area which should be devoted to anything connected to the Republican war machine.
If we let this go forward without reaction, we are complicit in the assault on the International Rule of Law by American War Criminals in Washington. This gives succor to the families of Bush's war fodder, and so indirectly at least supports the war effort.
We need to protest this, and if possible, stop it with our local zoning laws.
There is no need to listen to the hatriots, like "Stop the War". He/she is blinded by an ideology of hatred, but the rest of us can, and should enthusiastically support the Fisher House at our VA hospital.
I offer the following little story that was forwarded to me. I don't know if it is true or not, but it makes the point:
"When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of 'empire building' by George Bush. He answered by saying, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."
It became very quiet in the room. "
I fail to follow the rationale behind "Stop the War"'s comment. While I also don't support the war, this suggestion sounds like not building a battered women's shelter because it would somehow legitimize spousal abuse.
Making things more difficult on well-intentioned soldiers and their families in the hope that it will produce political change in Washington is just like the US embargo on Cuba in the hope that it will remove Castro from power - it hurts the wrong people and produces no real political change.
You are conflating different issues, just like the left has always argued moral equivalence.
The embargo against Castro's Cuba is aimed at freeing the people of Cuba, becasue any economic margin will be used by Castro to further enslave his slaves.
We should support our military becasue they are fighting to liberate the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. Our military, typically, fights on the side of freedom. Do you disagree?
I think a very large apartment should be built by the VA Hospital. There are 10's of thousands of Vets that will need being taken care of and their families should all have the opportunity to be near them.
Maybe a Hotel also for the families.
Supporting the vets is not supporting the war!
Anyone who thinks this war is to bring Demorcory (sp) has been brainwashed or is spreading propanganda and is probably making money off the war
You're right that I brought in an unrelated issue about Cuba to make a point, although I respectfully disagree that any economic benefit we permit Cuba would be used to further enslave Cubans. I personally believe that Castro has Cuba's best interests at heart, and that his chosen method of providing the best for his people, namely socilaism, is a terrible way to try and achieve it, and will continue to fail. But I think that we're hurting ordinary Cubans more by strangling Cuba's economy than helping them by speeding up the hopefully eventual arrival of capitalism.
As far as our troops fighting on the side of good, of course I agree, and I think that in any given conflict both sides believe that they're in the right. Make no mistake, Saddam was a brutal dictator, he gassed his own people and jailed or killed his enemies. The question is whether our intervention will leave the Iraqis in a better state than when we arrived. Iraq was a fairly secular Muslim country with a reasonable standard of living and security. Right now we have left them with a heavily damaged infrastructure and little security. If we leave, the Iranians are poised to swoop in and create a huge Islamic theocracy, where religious law may trump civil law. If we stay, more Americans and more Iraqis will die. I think it's a Hobson's choice.
My original post was simply to say that I don't see supporting the troops or their families of troops as connected in any way with supporting what thay have been ordered to do. You can support either, neither, or both.
To Long Time Resident - By your thinking, we weren't fighting for freedom in WW2 either, and we gave billions of dollars to Japan and Europe to rebuild out of a cynical and greedy desire for profit ( because in the long run free countries become economically interdependent and prosperous).
Of course the FIRST reason for going into Iraq was to prevent a megalomaniac from continuing his insane plans to develop a PanArabia using WMD to hold Israel hostage, and thus the US. I won't even begin to argue this point because, even though we haven't taken even one drop of oil, even to pay ourselves back, people like you are going to continue to believe the absurdity that it was "blood for oil"...
The great side benefit is that, in spite of every effort by our Left politicians and media to make it fail, democracy in Iraq has not only sprouted, it is growing wildly, Al-Qaeda has been pushed out, the people of Iraq have united in political will to become a stable democracy, and we are well within the original goal of "a stable democracy capable of defending itself"..which means we are winning, and close to decreasing our presence there.
I was wrong in my original projection..I thought it would be 5 years before we were down to 30,000 troops in Iraq. I never dreamed how completely filled with hatred of Iraq and America our Left would be and how hard they would work to slow or destroy progress. But, in spite of them, it looks like we may be down to 80,000 5 years post going into Iraq, maybe 50,000 6 years, 30,000 7 years. Not bad for all of the incredible undermining and sabotaging.
YAY for the USA and our incredible VOLUNTEER soldiers who saw the wisdom and honor of our goal in Iraq.
We should pour any amount of money we can into supporting them and their families.
I do. Do you?
"The question is whether our intervention will leave the Iraqis in a better state than when we arrived. Iraq was a fairly secular Muslim country with a reasonable standard of living and security." Huh? Tell that to the families of the minimum of 300,000 massacred Iraqis ( by Saddam), the 400,000 dead Iraqis from his invasion of Iran, ( not to mention the 400,000 dead Iranians), God knows how many dead Iraqis and Kuwaitis from his invasion of Kuwait, the minimum, by his OWN WORDS, 5,000 dead Shia kids/per month under the age of 5 that he was starving/denying medical care to in the 10 years prior to our invasion, in an effort to convince the world ( who is gullible) that the "Oil for Food" program was hurting his people ( when all along he was stealing all the money for his own palaces and military. Try telling the people of even Baghdad how they had BETTER infrastructure before our invasion...1/2 the time no electricity, few medical supplies because the "oil-for-food (and meds)" program was being co-opted by Saddam, selling the meds to his neighbors for money for his palaces and military..Tell the families of the women stolen off the street, raped to near death then fed to dogs. Tell the families whose loved ones' body parts were delivered to them after loved ones disappeared. Good God, man, even Saddams own sons-in-laws were executed and butchered, their parts returned to his own daughters, after he promised them a safe return when they revealed his nuclear stash in the mid-90s.
When would you rather be born?When Saddam was in power, or now?
"Right now we have left them with a heavily damaged infrastructure"..still better than what they had. Have you noticed the stock market there? Hard to have an ever improving economy if what you say is true.
"and little security." Uh...add up the dead in my paragraph above..over a million...that is security???
"If we leave, the Iranians are poised to swoop in and create a huge Islamic theocracy, where religious law may trump civil law. If we stay, more Americans and more Iraqis will die. I think it's a Hobson's choice." Thank God your thinking didn't prevail in the 1700s, or we would still be a colony of England, or in the 1800s, or slavery would still be legal in the south, and we would be 2 Americas, or now...or over the next 25 years Saddam's sons would go forth and murder another million or two Muslims.
You make it sound like fighting and dying for liberty and freedom is somehow the same as dying under a fascist theocracy.
[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
Stop the war needs to take her efforts to the nations that start wars, or change her name to stop defending us and surrender.
Dear Stop the War: When was the vote for the "leaders" of the "International Leaders" that make "International Law"? I must have missed it.
If I didn't get to vote for them, they don't represent me. 3/4 of the UN is comprised of dictators. Last I checked, we are free to elect our own representatives.
And we did.
Get over it. Be grateful today that you live here, the most free country in the world, and nowhere else.
Getting back to the subject of this topic, hasn't anybody noticed the date of the story (2005) and that this home for families was built and is in operation. Why don't those who object drive by and see it ..better yet, stop by and talk with some family members.
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