Tea Party at PA Post Office? Paul Losch's Community Blog, posted by Paul Losch, a resident of Palo Alto, on May 5, 2010 at 4:30 pm Paul Losch is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online
I was taking care of some company business this afternoon with Wells Fargo and the downtown PA post office at the corners of Waverley and Hamilton.
Maybe it was the time of day--it was earlier for me than when I typically am there, but there did appear to be some "Tea Partiers" on the Post Office side of the corner.
I had to go right past them, and elected to not try to engage in any sort of dialog, since they had several posters with a picture of Obama with a Hitler mustache with copy that said "Impeach Obama." There also was a poster of a African American guy that was part of the display, and since I just wanted to get past the white man and white woman managing this display, I have no idea who he is or why there was a poster of him.
The folks "running" that corner did not come across to me as ones who were interested in meaningful discussion. Besides, I was running errands for work, not cruising downtown.
They did come across to me as what has emerged as "Tea Partiers" in the last year. Fascinating implications that folks with this perspective on things are showing up in college towns. Stanford has a conservative bent overall, but the intellectual capacity on the Farm is beyond reproach.
A Hitler mustache on a picture of our President Obama? Come on.
Posted by Sharon, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on May 5, 2010 at 6:31 pm
While on Sunday, MSNBC wished, and the Mayor of NYC speculated, that the Time Square bomber was a Tea Party member-- and neither has retracted their lies, the Taliban threat in the USA is clear and present.
It turns out now that we have a very serious problem in this NY case and it is predicted to get much more serious.
The Wall Street Journal reports this evening that “U.S. and Pakistani investigators are giving increased credence to possible links between accused Times Square bomb plotter Faisal Shahzad and the Pakistan Taliban.”Web Link
We got lucky in the Times Square matter, the threatened campaign of car bombings in American communities is very serious and very difficult to counter.
It took the IRA 40 years to get sophisticated with car bombs, it took the Iraqi insurgents 6 months-- it will take the Taliban days or weeks to plant lethal car bombs in the US towns, colleges, sports arenas etc---
these will not kill thousands at a time, but they will kill, maim and spread terror.
The NY Times Square car bomb was detected by a hot dog vendor-- not by billion dollar intelligence and surveillance technology.
Posted by Kate, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on May 5, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Paul, you said that Stanford has a 'conservative bent"? Oh, come on!! On what planet are you living?? Hoover Tower from top to bottom maybe, but the rest of the campus has a reputation of being very left of Center, especially English, History, --the rest of the "Liberal Arts". Remember the Bruce Franklin days?
Posted by RS, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on May 5, 2010 at 10:09 pm
'"Bucky" is a slur ....'
So although the tea party attracts all sorts, they are a void without any real centralized leadership. People threatened by them seem to attack them. One thing they seem to universally stand for is fiscal responsibility, a trait both major parties seem to lack.
Posted by Paul, a resident of the Downtown North neighborhood, on May 5, 2010 at 10:36 pm
"While on Sunday, MSNBC wished, and the Mayor of NYC speculated, that the Time Square bomber was a Tea Party member-- and neither has retracted their lies..."
I guess they thought the perp was another Tim McVey type.
"The NY Times Square car bomb was detected by a hot dog vendor-- not by billion dollar intelligence and surveillance technology."
All my liberal friends are telling me that. I don't know what DHS' box score is on cutting off terrorists, but I always wondered what (if anything) Bush was thinking when he created it. I mean, who ever solved a problem by throwing bureaucracy at it?
Posted by Anon., a resident of the Crescent Park neighborhood, on May 5, 2010 at 11:24 pm
As idiotic, and unproductive as Hitler mustaches are we should be clear for those who knee-jerkingly finger point at ficticious coments and in the past events.
Hitler was a fascist, in the style of Mussolini. Fascism, that is corporatism, government run in an abusive, exploitative, warlike manner by a corporate plutocratic business elite far more parallel's what was happening under George W. Bush, and what is still happening in the US under the reign of corporate lobbyists and the co-opting of the government as slavish whipping boy for all societies faults that anything that is now happening under Obama.
The Nazis, called National Socialists, were not socialists anymore after Hitler seized control of the party and purged the real socialists from it introducing his nightmare version of fascism..
It is a logical, and political error to refer to Obama as a fascist, socialist and communist al rolled into one ... unless you just plain do not care about facts or having a discussion. If that's true, then it is hardly free speech.
President Bush on the other hand gave us a war of choice unrelated to terrorist aggression, tapped American's phones in violation of due process and existing law. There is some logical analogy for exaggerating the connection between Bush and the Nazis, which is not something I would do or ever did, or support. This kind of talk is unproductive, but since it ends up swamping all rational public discourse it is necessary to weigh in and confront it ... on both extremes.
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on May 5, 2010 at 11:32 pm Walter_E_Wallis is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online
The race card, the last refuge of a scoundrel. I would not presume to decide how the leaderless mob uses the language. When usage is ambiguous I infer from context. My uncle Bud called me Alfalfa and I ain't blond. A sad voiced comic whose name i can't recall held soliloquies to Bucky.
Posted by Perspective, a resident of the Meadow Park neighborhood, on May 6, 2010 at 6:32 am
hitler's party was "NAZI'..please look up what it was, what he proposed, what he ran on, and what he did.
Socialism run amok turns into Communism which turns into Fascism..
Any dictator is facsism
however, he was, in fact, a 'socialist' promising everything to everyone ..
think about it.
back to the point.
"Tea party' has no 'leader'.. it is grass roots. it is against the unconstitutional ( a tired and worn phrase, to say the least, but still relevant) grab for power and money by our Federal govt for uncontitutional uses. Constitutional uses are to promote trade internally between states and between the USA and others, to defend our nation against invasion and/or attacks, to defend the liberty of individuals.
There is a part which specifically states that any jobs NOT enumerated for the Fed govt are RETAINED by the STATES.
Somewhere we have lost that foundation, and we 'tea partiers' want to return to it. We want our Fed govt to defend our nation ..our borders from invasion and from attack from outside. To defend inter-state commerce...where were they in the oil-spill that now threatens to shut down the coasts of many states? To defend individual liberties such as speech...where are they when citizens are being silenced because of depicting Mohammed or trying to speak about Mohammed in a CARTOON???
Our Fed has lost its way and thinks it is a local Community volunteer group. We need to go back to the goal of the Feds. Finish keeping the promises we made to folks above a certain age, and below that, reform our regulations so that below a certain age ( 50?/?) we know that we must invest in our OWN future retirment and our OWN future health care...
Posted by A vet, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on May 6, 2010 at 7:26 am
Walter is at it again--using the term "bucky" to denigrate those that disagree with him. Too bad. He also considers two wrongs to make it a right--if people had posters making fun of Bush, then it is okay to do the same with Obama--strange way of thinking.
We also get to hear more stories from Walter about his past--relevance to this discussion is unknown.
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on May 6, 2010 at 8:27 am Walter_E_Wallis is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online
Hey, Bucky, the reference to my past was in re:"Bucky" is a slur against African-Americans that is used by the Tea Party, especially in reference to President Obama. The term is a reference to the Buckwheat caricature from the 1930s"
I won't insult your intelligence by explaining the relevance.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but one wrong accepted makes a precedent. I have adequately explained my term "Bucky," If you chose to apply an alternate meaning unsupported by context, the poorer you are.
Caricatures have a long and unsanitary history in politics - a medium suitable for the unlettered does not belong in a literate society.
Posted by Paul Losch, a resident of Palo Alto, on May 6, 2010 at 12:28 pm Paul Losch is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online
The poster just below your last entry and mine here is right--the topic is the Tea Party in Palo Alto, and the inappropriateness of vilifying this or any US President as a Hitler figure.
Perfectly fine to discuss the recent goings on in Times Square last weekend, and I suggest/request you start a thread to that effect, and confine your comments on this posting to the topic as I teed it up.
Posted by Sharon, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on May 6, 2010 at 3:37 pm
The Tea Party sees clearly a wave of change coming fast, but not the kind of change that President Obama imagined, is following right behind the financial tsunamis.
All of his ill-timed “investments”,
like bloated Federal Health care,
and cap-and-trade have come at a time when they simply can’t be borne.
There’s simply not enough money to sustain them.
Institutions like featherbedded unions, monopolies and obsolete gatekeepers should view recent events in the same way that dinosaurs who looked up at an enormous descending meteor should.
The Tea Party understands the consequences of Obama taking the US down the European socialist garden path.
“The average EU country would need to have more than four times (434%) its current annual gross domestic product in the bank today, earning interest at the government’s borrowing rate, in order to fund current policies indefinitely.”
In other words, Europe would have to have the equivalent of roughly $60 trillion in the bank today to fund its very general welfare benefits in the future. Of course, it doesn’t.
Today, Greece is only the tip of a very large iceberg.
Portugal, Spain, Italy and Ireland together owe $3.9 trillion in short- and medium-term debts, an amount larger than their combined GDP, estimated last year at $3.3 trillion."Web Link
Whether or not the sudden fall in the Dow Jones today was exacerbated by a technical error or a hack should not obscure the main problem.
The world has been living beyond its means “like a cut flower in a vase; fair to see yet doomed to die.”
Tea Party in Palo Alto point out that this is just as true of Palo Alto as it is of the US and Europe-- these economies are interconnected -- as we felt today-- the biggest drop in the market since 1987
Posted by Paul Losch, a resident of Palo Alto, on May 6, 2010 at 6:11 pm Paul Losch is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online
I take umbrage against a display of any POTUS being portrayed with a Hitler mustache. I was no fan of W, and think he did some things that were beyond the pale, but I no more would support his getting portrayed that way than Obama or any President.
I cannot get my arms wrapped around the Tea Party. Clearly there are many angry people out there. I think the anger has been accumulating for some time, due to policy decisions made over many years, many administrations, both D and R, as well as a similar behavior of policy decisions at the state and local levels all over the country. Cluck, cluck, the chickens are coming home to roost.
It did not start on the day Obama became POTUS, although that seems when the Tea Party got galvanized.
Here are the 2 things that I find fault with the Tea Party movement:
1. What’s the connection between anger and action? “I want my country back” is disingenuous. Huge disconnect between wanting to keep existing USG programs, such as Medicare, and opposing health care reform. Life support in order to keep GM (not Chrysler, they did not deserve it) going so it could get back on its feet. And it saved jobs for Tea Partiers. Just to cite a couple examples.
2. More disturbing to me is the people that appear to be the public faces that the Tea Party people are enamored of: Sarah Palin (vapid), Glenn Beck (broken record, no insight), and Rush (who as best as I can tell, still resides in this country, although he threatened to move to Costa Rica if Obamacare passed.) These are not serious people with a concrete point of view that could lead to another approach to our problems. They are pandering to a group of people who want to hear what they want to say.
I will hand it to Sarah Palin. She quickly figured out how to brand herself and make a ton of money.
Posted by Sharon, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on May 6, 2010 at 7:15 pm
There is a very long tradition of hurling mud at your opponents in American politics-- sad but it is was it is
Obama calls for civility-- but the WSJ points out today that he does nothing to promote this -- in fact he fosters itIf Mr. Obama is serious about his commitment to courtesy and respect, then he will need to demonstrate presidential leadership and rein in the verbal excesses of the leaders of his own party. He could start by having a conversation with Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who condemned those with different views on health care as being "un-American." He might also share a word with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who recently accused Republicans of being "anti-American" and wanting to continue to "make love to Wall Street" by pressing for changes in a bill regulating the financial industry.
"If Mr. Obama is serious about his commitment to courtesy and respect, then he will need to demonstrate presidential leadership and rein in the verbal excesses of the leaders of his own party.
He could start by having a conversation with Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who condemned those with different views on health care as being "un-American."
He might also share a word with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who recently accused Republicans of being "anti-American" and wanting to continue to "make love to Wall Street" by pressing for changes in a bill regulating the financial industry."
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on May 6, 2010 at 8:56 pm Walter_E_Wallis is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online
Paul, who was the judge who made reference to the value of circumstantial evidence by referring to trout in the milk pail?
As for being accused, I sign my name specifically to require that those accusing me know they are obliged by common decency to make a case other than their own accusation. Of course, common decency ain't too common sometimes.
Posted by Anon., a resident of the Crescent Park neighborhood, on May 6, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Why are we Palo Altans, Californians, Americans so simple-minded that we are virtually paralyzed by having to treat everything equally?
EVERYTHING IS NOT EQUAL.
Portraying Obama as a Hitler figure is a very cold and calculated attempt to equalize him with George W. Bush, and Obama has not gotten the 6+ years of the honeymoon George Bush did, nor has he done any of the things that George Bush did to incite people to portray him as Hitler - yet.
This is the typical clever subliminal argument from the right, put average looking people who can be related to by "joe sixpack" and have them say something with that tweaks the right nerves for attention, then include some Anti-Obama offensiveness.
The left when they rudely portrayed Bush as a Nazi, and let's not forget Cheney, they had a point, they had a reason.
Bush was the most authoritative executive president there ever was - hense the Hitler-like associations with a grab for power.
Obama has over and over tried to get the system, the Congressional system to work ... he has been anything but authoritarian ... remember the health care bill that these folks call Obama Care ???? who wrote it ??? not Barack Hussein Obama ... it was nothing like the authoritarian backroom dealings of the last 8 years.
Things are not automatically equal, and those that make that kind of argument have a dishonest agenda.
Posted by Anon., a resident of the Crescent Park neighborhood, on May 6, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Paul, Costa Rica would not want Rush Limbaugh as anything more than a money spending tourist.
Costa Rica is fairly socialist. Poor as they are they are almost totally energy self-sufficient, they have universal health care, and no army. Rush would be more at home in Panama, Guatemala, maybe Columbia ... where he could get his drugs more easily.
Incumbents, Washington-backed candidates perform well in N.C., Ind., Ohio")
"the myth of racial slurs"
the new MO of the tea party people and the republicans is to deny that anything ever happened. Basically they are saying that the distinguished congressmen are liars. Too bad Sharon is buying that story.
"You'll not find any proof that the tea party is about white rage because it simply isn't true. "
Maybe because the Tea Party membership is almost exclusively white. They rail and rant against the government and claim that america has "been taken from them"!!! It's about race.
"Lets face it, the left is in a near panic over the tea party because they could only HOPE for the approval numbers of a group whose peaceful demonstrations would make Gandhi proud."
Clearly those approval numbers did not translate into any victories in the early primaries. But if the Tea Party is anti-current government, why isn't the right worried? or maybe the tea party is just an offshoot republican group bitter that an african-american is president.
Posted by Sharon, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on May 7, 2010 at 9:59 am
"Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's law of Nazi Analogies) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage.
It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerum form.........
....there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress.
Posted by Madison D. Hatter, a resident of the University South neighborhood, on May 7, 2010 at 3:38 pm
"Godwin's law ... states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
Godwin merely rephrases a well know phenomenon for his/her particular bee in the bonnet. As any universe evolves, the probability of occurrence for any event asymptotically approaches unity, unless that event is absolutely impossible.
Since your post so immediately followed mine, we can safely presume a cause-effect connection. I will therefore point out that I said nothing about Nazis or Hitler; I merely mentioned Germany in 1932, which was before the Nazis came into power. Why then were you so primed to leap to a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler?
Nevertheless, since the subject is on the table, can you explain why groups that behave like Brownshirts seem so touchy about being grouped with Brownshirts?
Posted by pat, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on May 10, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Tea partiers might actually have some interesting points to make. Too bad they bury them with racial slurs on the president and his wife.
If you've had enough of the Hitler analogy, how about the posters of Obama as a witch doctor or the one of the president and his wife as a pimp and a whore?
Whether these racist, anti-Semitic and just plain repulsive episodes are typical of the Tea Party or its extremists, they certainly don't make for any meaningful dialog. And if they are extremists, why doesn't the Tea Party disown them?
Posted by BB, a resident of the Crescent Park neighborhood, on May 17, 2010 at 8:45 pm BB is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online
So I am assuming that Paul from Downtown North opposed the health care bill as he stated that nothing has ever been solved by adding bureaucracy. I agree with you, Paul. If not, you better rethink your DHS statement.
Posted by Mike-Crescent Park, a resident of the Crescent Park neighborhood, on May 20, 2010 at 3:35 pm Mike-Crescent Park is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online
You may have been duped.
Before you decide that what you encountered was actually what you call Tea Partiers, please do something to verify they are not plants.
In several spots around the country left wingers are actively working to discredit the Tea Party by showing up with offensive signs and chants to make the real Tea Party look bad.Several Northeast US Democratic Party functionaries announced intentions to do so.And they did it in SF-see this link
The real Tea Party folks do not behave the way you saw-they have every reason to know why not to even if they wanted to do that. Look at photos of the real rallies and you will see.
On the other hand, we have a very, very large supply of characters as far left as you want in our area. If you have seen them in action at any of the many demonstrations in SF you know they are capable of this and more.
Nice little racist rant at an NAACP meeting by a Fed Govt Employee who wielded power over others...judging them on color, not content. MLK continues to spin.
Looked up all the links above to supposed "racism" in the Tea Party. Couldn't find anything to them. The ONE that is racist has a very obvious papering over some word replaced with another one..and is shown only on the Huffington Post. Suspicious to me. Don't believe it.
Penultimately, nobody has ever come forward with a verifiable photo, e-mail, letter, poster, recording or videotape of anyone at any "Tea Party" saying or doing anything racist, in spite of an offer of $100,000 for such proof by Andrew Breitbart.
Lastly: I no more judge all blacks, or all Democrats, as "racist" for the comments of a few truly racist idiot followers and leaders in their midst, than I would judge the Tea Party movement racist even if someone DID turn up even one piece of evidence. The Tea Party movement has no leader, no elected politicians, no committee, no fundraising, no "nuttin'"..kind of hard to judge a movement based on the Constitution and grass roots as anything other than just that...a growing movement of fed up people who want our Feds to go back into their role, and leave us alone.
A Government with the power to take anything from any of its law abiding citizens, from money to property to speech, has the power to take it all. Give us back our freedom.