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Well, did Palo Altans protest Keystone pipeline, or did they not ?

Original post made by CrescentParkAnon. on Feb 3, 2014

On the front page there is a headline:

>> Palo Altans protest Keystone pipeline

>> Local activists held a candle-lit vigil on Monday night in Lytton Plaza, calling on President Barack Obama to reject the proposed 1,179-mile oil pipeline in the wake of a new State Department environmental impact report.


Are we afraid of a little discussion. I happen be against exploiting the Canadian Tar Sands, so I agree and am glad to see a protest of this, not that it will do anything. I believe anything that will hinder tar sands development or export is probably a good thing. In a world where water is growing very scarce and we are filling up the atmosphere with CO2 we should be really getting serious about cutting back on exploiting hydrocarbons for energy.

I think we ought to be doing MORE with nuclear, but we cannot trust the people who are running the industry. We are in a pickle, but charging ahead in a bad way is not a good option.

Comments (13)

Posted by Bru, a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 4, 2014 at 10:28 am

Bru is a registered user.

Editors, why is there no article for this other than a brief mention of it on the front page? This is the only front page post I've seen that did not have an article attached to it.

Posted by anony, a resident of Barron Park
on Feb 4, 2014 at 1:29 pm

I want to stop the Keystone pipeline because I favor buying oil from the Middle East, from countries that use our oil dollars to sponsor terrorism. Why should we want to ween ourselves from Mid-East oil! I also like the idea of transporting oil by train because it raises the risk of train fires, and I like fires. I hope Canada follows through with its promise to ship all of this oil to China because we need to give them a boost. Lastly, America doesn't need the jobs the pipeline would create. The way to stimulate the economy is by increasing welfare and food stamp payments. Nancy Pelosi has said this many times. Please, Mr. Obama, stop the Keystone pipeline.

If the pipeline is somehow approved, a windmill should be placed along its path every 1,000 feet!

(Want to bet that the Palo Alto Online censor takes this down?)

Posted by Mr.Recycle, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 4, 2014 at 1:41 pm

It is totally irrational to oppose the pipeline. The oil is coming anyway via train. If you block the trains, it will go by boat to China, and as Anony accurately points out, and we'll just be buying oil from the middle east or VEnezuela instead.

It would be smarter to support cheap electric, or even tax oil, but opposing the pipeline is feel good stupidity, that probably hurts the environment more than it helps (even if you "hate"oil).

Posted by James, a resident of Midtown
on Feb 4, 2014 at 5:16 pm

Germany rejected nuclear, saying that solar/wind could take its place.
When it didn't, and couldn't, they went to dirty brown coal, to substitute for the nuclear power. Now they want to go back to nuclear. This sounds a bit like Palo Alto greenie politics.

Posted by CrescentParkAnon., a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 5, 2014 at 1:49 am

anony, take away the cynicism, vitriol, sarcasm and snark and you got nothing. It always amazes me how conservatives seem to think all the they have to do to be taken seriously is behave badly and take on airs of self-righteous stormy superiority. You're free to think what you want, but just be informed, you are saying nothing with all the nonsense ... do you really have anything to say?

Posted by Magnolia, a resident of Midtown
on Feb 5, 2014 at 10:22 am

"I want to stop the Keystone pipeline because I favor buying oil from the Middle East"

Yay! I want to build the leaky pipe so we can ship canada's dirtiest oil down to Texas to ship out of the US!!

"If you block the trains, it will go by boat to China" Bingo!! So why not skip Texas and go straight to China? There are few jobs involved after the leaky pipe is built anyway.

"Germany rejected nuclear, saying that solar/wind could take its place.
When it didn't"

But it did! Foggy, cloudy Germany has replaced many, many nukes with green energy, and is building more green capacity by the month.

Look at today's paper - SAUDI ARABIA is spending billions to build a SOLAR manufacturing plant to make panels!!!

Why, oh why, are the 'America Last' crowd trying to keep us burning the dirtiest oil on the planet??!? Why, oh why, are the 'America Last' crowd trying to keep the USA from leading the world in green energy?!?

Germany: Web Link

from over a YEAR AGO:

"(Reuters) - German solar power plants produced a world record 22 gigawatts of electricity per hour - equal to 20 nuclear power stations at full capacity - through the midday hours on Friday and Saturday....

The German government decided to abandon nuclear power after the Fukushima nuclear disaster last year, closing eight plants immediately and shutting down the remaining nine by 2022.

They will be replaced by renewable energy sources such as wind, solar and bio-mass."

Facts, not noise.

Posted by Perhaps, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 5, 2014 at 2:55 pm


Perhaps they were accurately predicted the resulting conversation would be acerbic. ;-)

Posted by James, a resident of Midtown
on Feb 5, 2014 at 4:00 pm

Germany is at near records of burning brown coal:

Web Link

This is due to having to make up for lost power from closing nuclear power plants. In fact, there are now calls in Germany for more nuclear power.

A little fact checking would be helpful....

Posted by Magnolia, a resident of Midtown
on Feb 6, 2014 at 9:02 am

James, are you against temporarily using coal in order to achieve worthwhile long term goals? Sorry, didn't know you were that environmentally strident.

Germany is kicking America's solar butt.

"In terms of total solar power capacity per capita, Germany crushes every other country. At the end of 2012, it had approximately 400 MW of solar power capacity per million people, considerably more than #2 Italy at 267 MW per million people, #3 Belgium at 254 MW per million people, #4 Czech Republic at 204 MW per million, and #5 Greece at 143 MW per million people.

The US came it at #20 with about 25 MW per million people (quite pitiful when put into this perspective). The top solar state (per capita) in the US at the end of 2012 was Arizona, which had about 167 MW of solar power per capita (and would have ranked #5 if it were a country)."

Read more at Web Link

The Saudi SIX BILLION dollar solar commitment (yes, that Saudi Arabia!)

Web Link

Posted by James, a resident of Midtown
on Feb 6, 2014 at 10:42 am


James Lovelock, creator of the Gaia theory, and a well-known environmentalist, thinks that what Germany is doing is crazy: Shutting down nuclear, in order to use brown coal. I suggest that you look him up on Google.

Germany can demonstrate impressive solar/wind numbers on one day, then almost nothing on another day (cloudy doldrums). Germany exports energy to neighboring countries, based on its coal, not solar/wind (which is not steady state). I don't oppose solar/wind, but I don't think there is any rational reason to rely upon it...Germany doesn't.

Do you support nuclear? Fracking for natural gas?

Posted by Perhaps, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 6, 2014 at 11:00 am

So you folks get that Keystone phase 3 is what prevents oil from getting to the gulf.
That phase is under construction and may even be finished as the scheduled date for completion is now.

Phase 4 is the phase that is being debated that phase only adds capacity and a more direct route.
Canada is going to gets its oil to the gulf, there is no stopping it whether phase 4 comes online or not.

Once the oil is at the gulf, it can be shipped to the highest bidder. It is no longer trapped in North America.
Now as it is also supposedly dirty oil which if so limits which countries have the technology to refine it.

Posted by CrescentParkAnon., a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 6, 2014 at 11:37 pm

I don't like the Canadian tarsands oil ... it is ruining some of the most untouched environment on the planet ... major ugly, major killing - dead .... probably for thousands of years.

I did not say I was against nuclear. I think nuclear is a long term, maybe THE long terms solution ... but why can't all these brilliant engineers design plants that are not built like they were made by idiots?

Chernobyl had no pressure container and no real shielding. The design of Fukushima makes me puke. What is there about the nuclear industry that makes them so incredibly stupid and incompetent?

Nuclear can work ... it's just people that can't seem to work. They get dollar signs in their eyes and their brains and ears atrophe and shut down.

We are in a major shortage of water and rain and the climate is probably not going to recover ... and we are pumping pure good clear water into the ground to get a little natural gas.

Who is making these decisions? Whoever it is imperative that we do something to correct our system so that it does not just go everything that can turn a profit, just because it can turn a profit.

I don't think the conversation here has been so bad ... why should be run away from it? Is this supposed to be proof that Canada can be as stupid as the US and Japan?

Posted by Mike, a resident of University South
on Feb 9, 2014 at 7:23 pm

Headline reads, "Palo Altans protest Keystone pipeline", yet the paper offers no evidence that the protesters are Palo Altans. I submit that these people are NOT locals and the headline should have read, "People protest Keystone pipeline in Palo Alto".

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