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SFO plane crash: Stanford Hospital evaluates 55 people

Original post made on Jul 7, 2013

Stanford Medical Center evaluated 55 patients from Saturday's crash of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 and admitted 18. One remained in critical condition as of Tuesday morning, July 9, according to spokesman James Larkin.

Read the full story here Web Link posted Sunday, July 7, 2013, 8:57 AM

Comments (29)

Posted by Patrick, a resident of Midtown
on Jul 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm

Sad and unfortunate, but very lucky to have only lost 2 lives in this tragic accident.

Posted by CrescentParkAnon., a resident of Crescent Park
on Jul 7, 2013 at 4:33 pm

They posted someone's video of this accident, it's amazing that there was not more loss of life. The plane looked to be coming in low and the pilot tried to abort at the last minute ... pilot error seems like a strong possibility. What a horrible thing for people to have to go through, or to see when they are taking off or landing from SFO. Tragic, but that plane is remarkably strong for how it seems to hit in the video.

Posted by Joe, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 7, 2013 at 8:27 pm

Tonight's news is carrying an article that the pilot had never flown a 777 into San Francisco before, and that he barely had 45 hours of 777 piloting. He is an experienced pilot, with 747 hours experience, however.

It's pretty clear that this was pilot error. However, a landing assistance system was off-line. At least one experienced pilot, who was interviewed today, claims that too many pilots have become dependent on these systems, and do not have the manual skills necessary to handle all of the conditions/challenges that airports around the world offer pilots.

Posted by Fred, a resident of Fairmeadow School
on Jul 7, 2013 at 8:46 pm

Joe: if so (and thus far) *appears* so, sounds like lax foreign regulation, or lack of, is an issue. We'll know more in a year when NTSB files.

CP Anon: yes, amazing video - that point where the plane starts the cartwheel and falls back flat, opposed to going over and landing possibly upside down, probably saved hundreds of lives. By falling flat, the air crew was able to swiftly evacuate.

Posted by DavidE, a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Jul 8, 2013 at 10:19 am

Some people are making a big thing about how the glide slope component of the ILS was out of service for the summer. I don't think that is going to turn out to be important at all. With such good visibility, he should have had his eyes out of the cockpit mostly focused on 28L where he was going to land. He should have perceived several seconds before the other events (stick-shaker, low airspeed, application of power, request for go-around) that the airplane's relationship with the intended point of landing was seriously wrong.

Posted by Joe, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 8, 2013 at 11:20 am

> (ILS out of service)->I don't think that is going to turn
> out to be important at all.

A number of commercial pilots have called into talk shows and made the same claim.

Posted by resident, a resident of Midtown
on Jul 8, 2013 at 11:42 am

The Wall Street Journal has a short article about the unsung heroes of this crash. Flight attendants were carrying disabled passengers out of the airplane after it crashed and before it caught fire. Web Link

Posted by gina, a resident of Menlo Park
on Jul 8, 2013 at 11:42 am

it was no doubt and nothing else but pilot error. [Portion removed.] this was an accident that never should have happened in the first place if they had a pilot who knew what he was doing.

Posted by coooper, a resident of another community
on Jul 8, 2013 at 12:36 pm

I have a different take on the ILS glide slope being out of commission. Yes, the pilot had good weather and the resources to land the plane. Yet if the guide slope had been functioning, it would have been one more tool and the one that might have informed the pilot in time to avoid the crash-landing.

Posted by musical, a resident of Palo Verde
on Jul 8, 2013 at 12:37 pm

Brings to mind a 1968 incident where a Japan Airlines DC-8 inbound from Tokyo landed in the bay two miles short of that same runway 28-left. It was a foggy morning and the pilots' first experience with DC-8 ILS equipment -- a more fortunate outcome with no injuries among the 107 souls onboard. The aircraft was hoisted out after two days, barged to United's maintenance base, and returned to service 3 months later.

Posted by moi, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 8, 2013 at 1:22 pm

[Post removed.]

Posted by anonymous, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Jul 8, 2013 at 1:33 pm

Don't pilots train on flight simulators?
I haven't heard this specific aspect mentioned, and I am very curious -- though a related thing was mentioned - that the data from the black box and voice recorder would be loaded into a 777 simulator so they could see what happened and how the controls were set and if there were any malfunctions at any step of the landing. I thought they already did that, determining everything seemed normal But what I am talking about is when a pilot wants to get certified on a certain model of aircraft, doesn't s/he have to train on a flight simulator?
I also want to know if there were 4 people in the cockpit during the landing - it has been suggested though not confirmed that the 3 pilots and 1 first officer were all there during landing. Would that have any effect on the situation?
The 777 has a solid history, that's well documented. Does anyone have anything to say about Asiana? - They have a bunch of 777's apparently.

Posted by regs, a resident of Barron Park
on Jul 8, 2013 at 1:38 pm

Lack of regulation on foreign carriers; less investment in training and simulator time before handing over the stick, to save a couple bucks. Domestic would never let this situation, imo, and from what I've been told by a couple pilots. At least they had what appeared to be a well trained attendants.

We'll see down the road in the reports that follow.

Posted by No excuses, a resident of College Terrace
on Jul 8, 2013 at 4:19 pm

Many foreign airlines do not train their crewe as well as American and Western European airlines do, especially in regards to handling emergencies.

A client from Korea was on board that plane to attend a conference this week in SF. He told us that the crew did NOTHING to assist passengers trying to exit the plane. The exit doors and inflatable chooses were activated by PASSENGERS.

Posted by Hutch 5.56 on a ducati, a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Jul 8, 2013 at 4:45 pm

No excuses-perhaps you should read these stories:

Web Link
"Lee Yoon-hye, described by The Associated Press as the "cabin manager" who was "apparently the last person to leave the burning plane," was among those being called out for her efforts to lead fliers to safety."
"She tells the news agency that one of her colleagues carried a frightened elementary school-aged boy on her back off the plane and down the emergency exit slide.

Web Link
"San Francisco fire chief Joanne Hayes-White is praising Asiana Flight 214 cabin manager Lee Yoon-hye, apparently the last person to leave the burning plane after it crash landed Saturday at San Francisco International Airport."
"One flight attendant put a scared elementary schoolboy on her back and slid down a slide, said Lee, in the first comments by a crew member since the crash of the Boeing 777. A pilot helped another injured flight attendant off the plane after the passengers escaped. "

Seems, no excuse, your "client" was wrong, if he even exists. What conference was attending in SF?
Sounds like the usual comments from you

Posted by Joe, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 9, 2013 at 10:29 am

Interesting article about survivability of a large place crash:

Web Link

Posted by Barney, a resident of St. Claire Gardens
on Jul 9, 2013 at 10:37 am

"What conference was attending in SF?"

Even I know that one - the big one. How do I know its big? In the Chron sports pages, the Mitchell Brothers advertisement: "Semicon West Badges - 50% off admission!"

So it's gotta be big, right?

srsly - semicon has been huge for decades, had to be a number of them on the plane.

Posted by Why so many techies on the flight, a resident of Green Acres
on Jul 9, 2013 at 12:06 pm

Why were so many tech oriented professionals coming to SF on a plane from Korea? - i.e. Sheryl Sandberg(who decided to take a UA flight from Korea to SF instead); the Samsung CEO; a local CEO who lives in Atherton. What was going on in Korea to have them all gathered there?

Posted by Lots of execs, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Jul 9, 2013 at 12:21 pm

A few Intel executives were on flight 214, too. The wife of one is in critical condition at SF General.

Perhaps another conference of techies?

Posted by Barney, a resident of St. Claire Gardens
on Jul 9, 2013 at 12:23 pm

answered above: Semicon in SF is the obvious reason for the Samsung CEO (tho shocked didn't have a jet). Doesn't apply to Sandburg, of course

Posted by Joe, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 9, 2013 at 12:33 pm

Story from the LA Times about possible problems with the crew in not responding more quickly:
Web Link

Pilots can be reluctant to abort a landing, even when the approach is unstable, Barr said. Although pilots have improved in their willingness to abort a bad approach, it remains a problem in the industry.

The Asiana accident is "an unfortunate textbook example" of questionable cockpit decision-making during what pilots call "short final" approach, Meshkati said. "Because of the high tempo of operations, there is no way you can recover. That's why all your decisions have to be perfect. There is no time for discovery of your error or recovery from your error."

"In the U.S., pilots are trained in stick and rudder skills and looking out the window of the airplane," he said. "A visual approach should not be unfamiliar to a pilot. They are taught that from the very beginning. We instill the idea of stable approaches from Day One."

Questions will, not doubt, begin to look at cultural differences between American, and non-American, pilots. Presumably simulators are available to any airline that buys/flies these large aircraft, but without standardized tests for pilots--there will always be differences between nationalities. And even then, there are possible subtle constraints on junior pilots who are in the presence of more senior pilots.

Posted by Kristof, a resident of Professorville
on Jul 10, 2013 at 2:03 pm

Hutch 5.56 doesn't seem to know much about Silicon Valley for a Palo Altan! Highly unusual.

Posted by Jan H., a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Jul 10, 2013 at 2:16 pm

Kristof--Hutch 5.56 is a very good friend of mine. He knows plenty about Silicon Valley. I am sure that most people do not know every convention that is going on. But at least you do not dispute his proof that the flight attendents were heroes, unlike the false claims made by no excuse

Posted by rules and regs, a resident of Escondido School
on Jul 10, 2013 at 2:24 pm

Looks more and more like lack of training, regulations and simulator time for foreign carriers. Time for them to quit cutting corners in the name of profits and invest in safety.

Posted by Scott and Zelda, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 10, 2013 at 8:00 pm

Apparently, it was only one flight attendant who was proactive. There are cultural issues that often keep foreign crews from acting without orders from higher-ups first.

Posted by Scott and Zelda, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 11, 2013 at 9:31 am

Incidentally, Jan H, , we have known Hutch since middle school. His dad has gone to SEMICON West every year since 1979 or so. He does not have a Ducati, he rides a Harley. That is obviously NOT the real Hutch!

Posted by Jan H., a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Jul 11, 2013 at 10:04 am

For some reason Scott and Zelda are trying to perpetuate the myth that the flight attendents did nothing. That is the exact opposite of the truth:
Web Link
"Lee said she saw her colleagues jump into action to help passengers and injured crew even as a fire burned in the back of the airplane. They popped the first emergency slide that had deployed inside with an ax to free a crew member who was struggling to breathe underneath its weight. Another emergency slide in the back trapped another crew member and was deflated with a kitchen knife, Lee said according to South Korean news station YTN."

You must have the wrong Hutch--the Hutch I know and wrote about works as an economist. I have been to his home many times

Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jul 20, 2013 at 5:35 am

Anyone read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell? He has an interesting take on Korean cultural reasons for airline crashes.

Posted by Peter Carpenter, a resident of Atherton
on Jul 20, 2013 at 8:26 am

Peter Carpenter is a registered user.

" there are possible subtle constraints on junior pilots who are in the presence of more senior pilots.

The Korean Air 8509 crash of a 747 departing Stnasted UK provides a perfect example of the lack of cockpit resource management (the crew working as a team) due to cultural factors that will probably be found to be a significant factor in this crash.

Web Link

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