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should the United States apologize for white supremacy laws of the past?

Original post made by Mike, Stanford, on Feb 20, 2011

US Rep Mike Honda is calling for the United States to officially apologize for the 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act. Mercury-News article: Web Link

This law was intended to decimate the fast growing Chinese-American population of that time period by prohibiting unmarried Chinese-American men (railroad workers, etc.) from returning to China to marry Chinese women. Segregation laws also prohibited Chinese-Americans from marrying non-Chinese. The exclusion was mostly effective and the Chinese-American population decreased until the exclusion was repealed more than 60 years later.

Since all of people directly affected by the exclusion law are likely deceased, an apology at this time would be entirely for educational purposes. Should we be teaching our children about white supremacy in our country's history? Or is that something best forgotten about?

Comments (48)

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Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 21, 2011 at 12:45 am

George Santayana said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Acknowledge history, don't fear it. And don't be a fringe tea bagger, and try to re-write it.

Or else:

"Those who misquote George Santayana are condemned to paraphrase him."

Jes' saying...


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Posted by No
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Feb 21, 2011 at 5:07 am

Not until we start proudly proclaiming all we have done that is good.


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 21, 2011 at 5:22 am

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

An apology for the sins of others is empty. Such apologies should e carried forward, not backwards.


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Posted by Nancy
a resident of Downtown North
on Feb 21, 2011 at 8:26 am

As long as we're demanding apologies for things that were done in the past, perhaps Mr. Honda should apologize on behalf of his Japanese relatives and ancestors who were responsible for the bombing of Pearl Harbor and the brutal imprisonment of hundreds of thousands of innocents in WWII. He might also apologize to China and the Chinese people for the Rape of Nanjing.

Makes as much sense to me as demanding the current day Americans apologize for what other Americans did in the past.


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Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 21, 2011 at 9:04 am

Touchy, folks! The title asks about apology. I feel the key questions were the last two posed:

"Should we be teaching our children... Or is that something best forgotten about?"

Racial injustice still strikes a few nerves, obviously. When the following 3 responses defend against apology by spewing our great country's exceptionalism, definition of the use of apology and extension to other injustices or aggressions, it takes away from the importance of the author's points.

Especially the last two questions.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."


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Posted by seems to me
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 21, 2011 at 9:07 am

Seems to me that Mike should be earning his pay by working on fixing the budget, not wasting resources on empty meaningless gestures.


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Posted by my2cents
a resident of Barron Park
on Feb 21, 2011 at 10:01 am

No to an apology because we did not make those decisions, the people who came before us did. Do we prosecute the children of criminals? It was despicable and it should be taught in school and in our history books, but Honda is looking for something else in demanding an apology.


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Posted by anonymous
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 21, 2011 at 10:39 am

The Representative is CLEARLY pandering for a vote. Disheartening that politicians operate this way, but there it is.


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Posted by James
a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 21, 2011 at 11:20 am

The Han Chinese dominated many groups in China, currently including the Tibetans. The Northwest area of China has ancients graves of European-looking people, presumably they were wiped out by the Han. The European settlers in N. America had very good reason to fear the Han. If they did not exclude the Han, they could have been dominated by them. History is full of such dominations/exclusions. Why should current American citizens apologize, or even teach a guilt trip about it?

Honda is pandering.


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Posted by Supporter
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 21, 2011 at 11:51 am

Nancy a resident of Downtown North says: "perhaps Mr. Honda should apologize on behalf of his Japanese relatives and ancestors who were responsible for the bombing of Pearl Harbor."

Perhaps Nancy should apologize to Congressman Honda who is quoted in his biography as follows: "I lived at Camp Apache, a Japanese-American internment camp in southeast Colorado during World War II, ironic given my father's service in the US Military Intelligence Service. One of the first lessons I learned was that being Japanese carried a negative connotation in America. My parents raised me talking about the injustices of camp, how it was a violation of the Constitution."


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 21, 2011 at 12:11 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

Life in an American internment camp was a far cry from life in a Japanese internment camp. Besides, Honda has already received his $20,000 apology, an inappropriate gesture.


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Posted by 3rd Generation Chinese
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Feb 21, 2011 at 1:08 pm

Chinese are an extremely hard-working culture. They don't whine, they just work hard. Yes, Chinese were abused and it's good to teach the children this in history classes (do they?) for educational purposes but to ask for an apology now only serves to stir up anti-Chinese sentiments at a time when whites in Silicon Valley already feel resentment of the influx of Asians. I'm guessing most Chinese would prefer it be left alone. Chinese work hard instead of blaming the treatment of them in the past, unlike another culture which blames their lack of progress on how their ancestors were treated.


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Posted by No
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Feb 21, 2011 at 1:25 pm

Only when the USA apologizes to women for the oppression of women. Until then, I will carry a chip on shoulder and blame my life on the my foremothers being oppressed.

Not!!


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Posted by No
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Feb 21, 2011 at 1:28 pm

To Supporter who quotes Honda as saying one of his first lessons was how being Japanese is negative in America..this is the problem with teaching hate instead of understanding.

At some point, one has to let the wrongs of the past go, enjoy the rights of today and the fruits of our labor tomorrow.



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Posted by Outside Observer
a resident of another community
on Feb 21, 2011 at 8:02 pm

"should the United States apologize for white supremacy laws of the past?"

Yes, right after Mexico apologises for sending there unwanted people here.


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Posted by Anon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 21, 2011 at 9:25 pm

Apologizing is the least that should be done. This idea that not apologizing does anything good or apologizing is a sign of weakness or decay is absurd.

The only problem I see with this is that it is asymmetrical in the sense that the same people now just have treated everyone outside their small elitist group as minorities ... and that includes most of the white middle class - so an apology would just be words in the continuing saga of an America that does not intend to do anything different until forced.

We have gone from one man one vote ... to letting women and minorities vote ... to switching over to one dollar one vote and the supreme court is backing it to the hilt. We have gone from fighting poverty and winning, to a large segment of the plutocracy moving to force the end of these programs.

Recently when Sargent Shriver, the founder of the Peace Corps. passed away PBS replayed an interview with him a year or so before. He talked about the war on poverty and saying for the money it was very effective. When he elaborated he talked about how the political machines in the big cities reacted strongly against this because it gave them competition and created power and money centers in the cities that did not have to bow them and pay tribute.

In other words, we have merely institutionalized on brand of overt public corruption and abuse to one that is more hidden and able to be painted over by nice media PR campaigns and politicians who make pretty speeches while doing nothing.

So, an argument could be made either way whether an apology would make some feel better, but in terms of being useful of meaning anything - clearly it would not.


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Posted by Anon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 21, 2011 at 9:35 pm

Also .... I don't have a record of being quoted anywhere or a name recognition as great as the brilliant George Santayana, but if anyone thinks that knowing or studying "history" makes any difference in anything I'd have to laugh at them. That quote always makes a good one to throw in someone's face in the middle of an argument to assume superior knowledge, but I think it's pretty silly. How many historians are ever interviewed on TV. The last major historian to die that I can recall was Howard Zinn and he was insulted the same day his death was reported by the right-wing media because his history did not jibe with theirs.

History is always re-written, and some even today fascinating things about history are being discovered now that turn things we knew before on their ears ... meaning that all the people who studied that history before and thought they knew something were blowing smoke, and tomorrow something new will be found out. We don't even know - ie. there is not consensus, about who killed Kennedy or what Viet Nam was about, or even the Civil War.

Human memory is fragile, imperfect and yes, bad, even in most people's lives, history is just a joke for the most part. What we read in the papers is slanted and over time gets more slanted and distorted ... the only thing we really have that makes a damn bit if sense is the basic moral code of all religions, which over time is institutionally distorted beyond all recognition as well. OK ... done with rant.


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Posted by Nora Charles
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 22, 2011 at 3:33 am

Alas, it is quite clear what his motives are. An apology is unnecessary and inappropriate.


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Posted by No
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Feb 22, 2011 at 5:36 am

Nora: I always admire your using your name and always read your comments because they are always pithy and right on.
Thanks

BTW, maybe we should apologize to the Japanese after we apologize to Europe for taking far too long to get into WW2, allowing millions more deaths than should have happened.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Mike
a resident of Stanford
on Feb 22, 2011 at 8:49 am

I cannot believe some of the explicit bigotry and racism displayed here. Blame Rep. Honda for bombing Pearl Harbor, even though he grew up in an internment camp and his father served in the US Army? Blame the decedents of Chinese-American railroad workers for invading Tibet, even though they had been living in the USA for 100 years when that happened?

I think the congressman is right to bring up this issue. We cannot fight bigotry and racism in this country until we expose it and stare it in the face. The apology itself is much less important than the education opportunity.

To those of you who believe that bigotry and racism is not evil, you are wrong.


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Posted by my2cents
a resident of Barron Park
on Feb 22, 2011 at 9:31 am

Mike you are misquoting -- those posts you say are racist are just saying that human beings all over this planet have done terrible things. That's just fact being pointed out. Why does Honda demand an apology from our govt when no one in our current govt or any of us living committed these despicable acts? Looks like a distraction to me from real issues. Why doesn't Honda work to get us out of Afganistan? Our soldiers are risking their lives and health for what -- and what about the Afgan people and their casualties? That is something that is currently a big problem happening now.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 22, 2011 at 11:37 am

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

Did Honda get his $20,000?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Support an apology
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 22, 2011 at 11:49 am

"Life in an American internment camp was a far cry from life in a Japanese internment camp."
Do two wrongs make a right? Was depriving people of their basic liberties and throwing them into a fenced in camp, after they had to ditch all their possessions sound good to you?
What is with you Walter, with your general unsympathetic view of minorities/people of color?

"Besides, Honda has already received his $20,000 apology, an inappropriate gesture."
[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.] Walter feels that our government has never done anything wrong and if they have, apologizing is wrong. Too bad, Walter, that you probably do not feel the need for apologizing for your long list of wrong doings (including some of your nasty comments on this forum).

"Did Honda get his $20,000?"
You already stated that Honda got his $20,000, so why are you asking again.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Tim
a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 22, 2011 at 2:36 pm

NO! Move on.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 22, 2011 at 5:19 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

My aunt Liza used to say "Sorry don't shuck no oysters." I go along with that. An apology unaccompanied by anything else is just wind.
While two wrongs don't make a right, neither do they balance out.
The US has matured in many ways. Remarkably, NO ONE has apologized to US for the many ways we have been put upon and we still function.


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Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 22, 2011 at 6:19 pm

Walter:

Wasn't that Aunt DeDee that said that?

Besides that...

Hirihito went to apologize to MacArthur in '45. Didn't Japan apologize a bunch of times? The most recent one in 2010?

West Germany has apologized. Unified Germany has apologized for war crimes over and over. They've also paid a hundred billion (US$) in reparations over the years, and I think a half billion a year in ongoing support or something.

But it's an interesting question. Did the South ever apologize for treason, causing a war in which over a quarter million Union soldiers perished defending our country?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Which is it walter?
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 22, 2011 at 7:43 pm

Let me understand, walter. You say an apology without anything else is just wind, but previously you complained about the fact that the interred japanese americans got money along with an apology. So which is it walter. Sounds to me like you have an issue with non-aryans. are ya kidding is correct, previously you did attribute that comment to aunr dede. Sounds to me like these are made up relatives spouting made up comments. Next thing you know, walter you will be claiming army medals!!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by James
a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 22, 2011 at 8:37 pm

"Hirihito went to apologize to MacArthur in '45. Didn't Japan apologize a bunch of times?"

Hirohito decided to accept the fact that more atomic bombs were not good for Japan. That is not an apology for past aggressions, just a realization of defeat. MacArthur understood the Asian mindset, and allowed Hirohito to survive.

Japan is probably the most racist nation on the face of the Earth, currently. Purist of race is in their DNA. The Han Chinese are a close second...ask the Tibetans.

Mike Honda is pandering, and he should be held accountable for his own greed.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Outside Observer
a resident of another community
on Feb 22, 2011 at 9:30 pm

"Japan is probably the most racist nation on the face of the Earth, currently"

I concur fully, based on numerous experiences there, here, and in hosting Japanese nationals in numerous venues; all of which over many years.

Don't ever expect any acknowledgement of this in politically-correct society. It would shatter their mythology.



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Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 22, 2011 at 9:45 pm

James:

"Hirihito went to apologize to MacArthur in '45. "

And you ranted about why he surrendered. This was AFTER the surrender.

No, he WENT TO MacArthur TO apologize, during the occupation.

MacArthur refused to see him.

After looking it up, indeed, Japan has issued many apologies.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Anon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 22, 2011 at 10:27 pm

> After looking it up, indeed, Japan has issued many apologies

Japan has a hell of a lot more to apologize for, but so what.
What does it have to do with the Chinese here?

Every day we read something or another about all these
crazy studies that are being done by scientists .. what do
scientists say about people's racial behavior, either the behavior
of Euro-Americans to others or back.

I have a feeling there are a lot of non-Euro-Americans who
are just as discriminatory to Euro-Americans as the
Euro-Americans are to them and probably more since they
might feel entitled and are partially shielded in reality.

Apologies would be nice by and for everyone to everyone
when the problem is really solved.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 22, 2011 at 11:36 pm

Anon:

The subject addressed was Walter's claim that no one ever apologizes to the US. Facts show otherwise.

Those facts were not presented to weigh whether it was deserved, sincere or otherwise.

I still think the important questions were the last two of the original post:

"Should we be teaching our children... Or is that something best forgotten about?"


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 23, 2011 at 5:51 am

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

My apology, it was my aunt Dedee. I had a lot of aunts to keep sorted.
As for the apologies given to the US, perhaps I didn't notice them because they were empty air.
Reparations are not an apology. They are a requirement of a peace treaty.
An apology unaccompanied by behavioral changes is especially in poor taste. If behavior changes an apology is redundant. If it does not, it is hollow. The official US behavior has in almost every respect changed for the better. It has, in fact, become an efficient tool against us.


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Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 23, 2011 at 10:08 am

Walter: first you said no one apologizes to us. Then:

"An apology unaccompanied by behavioral changes..."

How does that apply to the examples listed: Japan and Germany apologizing about WWII? Have I missed the news about either of them in a recent world war?

I believe your phrase "empty air" is subjective. Subjective enough that some may be considering it at this very time.

and: "The official US behavior has in almost every respect changed for the better."

So true! We haven't started invading a country unprovoked, that was no threat to us, in so, so many YEARS!

Well, since 2003.

Officially.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 23, 2011 at 6:25 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

Gassing Kurds, rape rooms, shredding opponents, and continually threatening in every direction is NOT provocative?
While Saddam may not have been the worst threat, he was the worst accessible one.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 23, 2011 at 6:32 pm

There ya go.

It's okay for others to do it, as long as they don't attack us.

And they're stronger than us? Is that what you're really saying, that America is too weak to attack all the other bad guys?

Besides, Dubya did not give that as his reason to Congress. It was an unprovoked attack. Falsehoods about WMD.

Besides, who sold Saddam all that stuff? Why, look! It's Donny boy!

Web Link


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Which is it walter?
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 23, 2011 at 7:07 pm

Interesting to read the comments on this thread from the sunshine patriots, chicken hawks and those that lecture us about their imagined service in the military. They clearly have no clue what our country stands for. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 24, 2011 at 2:11 am

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

WMD was one of many reasons for attacking Iraq. The almost continuous violations of the peace treaty were more than enough to justify resumption of hostilities.
America is indeed too weak to attack "...all the other bad guys..." We have to be selective in our exercise of power, saving it for the most egregious violations.
As for the "...sunshine patriots, chicken hawks and those that lecture us about their imagined service in the military...", I haven't the slightest idea who you are talking about.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by No
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Feb 24, 2011 at 6:36 am

Walter: In my humble opinion it is time to let this thread die the natural death of the irrational responses by WiW, AYK,Mike ( of course, I was wondering how long before 'racist' was yelled and he did not disappoint), etc.

Don't frustrate yourself. You ( and sometimes I) somehow still believe in intelligence and rationality, and it is difficult for us to recognize when it is absent. We keep thinking if we just explain it better, the light will come on.

For those determined to not learn, nothing will make a difference.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton
on Feb 24, 2011 at 6:41 am

No - was a thoughtful and appropriate posting! Thank you. May I use it on other threads which have become equally mindless?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by No
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Feb 24, 2011 at 8:11 am

Peter: I don't own the words. Feel free. Thanks for the compliment. Hard lesson to learn for some of us eternal optimists.

As my grandpa used to say, you can't wrestle with pigs without getting dirty, and at some point this applies to conversations also.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 24, 2011 at 10:10 am

Walter: "WMD was one of many reasons for attacking Iraq. The almost continuous violations of the peace treaty were more than enough to justify resumption of hostilities. "

There was no WMD. Inspectors told us before the war. Want the links?

A couple trillion dollars and 5,000 American lives, 30,000 injured with many having the "signature" injury of the war: traumatic head injury. And we made an enemy of Iran into a virtual satellite state.

All because he broke some rules and you think we are the arbiter and enforcer of right and wrong on treaties. The rest of the world wouldn't join us because we overstepped. We had to bribe small countries like Poland and Palau to send a couple dozen jeep drivers.

Second largest force in Iraq? Mercenaries. Blackwater, etc.. Part of the trillions.

Rummy and Bush are trying to re-write history with their books, so you, No and Peter don't have to put thought into your blind obedience to this disaster.

Rummy was on the Daily Show last night trying to peddle his book. Sad, isn't it? He never would talk to a guy like Stewart before he stooped to peddling his book. Haven't watched it yet, I'm so offended by the man: "<we KNOW where WMD is>... They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. "

How does that not offend you, as an American?

Or do you put that in the part of your brain where you collect/hide falsehoods, like where you think no one ever apologized to the US?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 24, 2011 at 10:15 am

Rummy, March 30, 2003: " It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. " Web Link

"somewhat"

How does that not make you feel sick?

5,000 killed. 30,000 lives unalterably changed.

And since most of the righties on these boards always fret about debt: two trillion dollars. Borrowed from China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and others.

A war on a credit card.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Feb 24, 2011 at 1:51 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

"...he broke some rules and you think we are the arbiter and enforcer of right and wrong on treaties..."
Well, actually we were, on this treaty. "He broke some rules" is an easy dismissal of Saddam's wholesale violations of human rights. The insanity to which Bush drove the left has them rationalizing Saddam just to blacken Bush.


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Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 24, 2011 at 2:11 pm

I haven't heard anyone dismiss the atrocities of Saddam; even Don, who used to love the guy, has changed his tune: Web Link

Saddam did not, and would not have attacked the US. He had no WMD.

For that you willingly traded:

5,000 Americans killed.

30,000 American lives unalterably changed.

And all those families, what their loss means.

Unfathomable that you can defend that. Maybe then, when you were so easily mislead by the liars about WMD and an AQ connection. But today, when you know better?

Where is your patriotism?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by No
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Feb 24, 2011 at 3:26 pm

To AYK: Don't know why I bother, but read this. Saddam himself acknowledges having WMD ( but not bio), acknowledges a day when the USA will have explosions "but not from Iraq" ( right...)

Web Link

Now we know that we won't from the Iraqi government. Thankfully,given the chaos consuming the rest of the Middle East, we have still 2 allies left in the Middle East, Israel and Iraq ( assuming Israel tolerates our recent diversion for a little longer). Have you noticed Iraqis aren't rioting in the streets for freedom?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by No
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Feb 24, 2011 at 3:27 pm

sorry to the rest of you, I just realized we got off topic.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by are ya kidding?
a resident of Woodside
on Feb 24, 2011 at 4:21 pm

Saddam had to be full of bravado and bluff to maintain cred against Iran, because his military was crumbling under sanctions.

Unless you believe everything he said about his vast military and WMD might. Did you?

You believed Saddam over international weapons inspectors? Really?

Wow, who da thunk it? Walter and "No", Saddam believers.

- - - - - -

Once we're out of Iraq, do you seriously think they will be our ally? Iraq and Iran are essentially the only two Shi'a countries against Saudi, etc.. Ally with the US? That's absurd.

Good Lord, they're going to ally with us once we're gone, after dubya's little event killed anywhere from 100k to a million Iraqi's. Uh-huh, sure. Why, they juuuuuust *love* us to pieces.

Brought to you by G dubya Bush. As awful as Saddam was (worse than Mubarak's state police, etc...) he was a counterbalance to Iran.

Now, at the cost of 5,000 American lives, they're friendly with Iran.

And you two believe that's a good result? Justified?

Really?

The only exception I see is if we give them a couple billion a year, like Egypt, to prop up a puppet.

- - - - - -

"assuming Israel tolerates <us>..."

Laughable. Where else will Israel find an ally that will fund a quarter of their defense budget, besides the US? To the tune of something like 3 billion a year.


Sorry, but further commenting on this topic has been closed.

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