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The president of Palo Alto’s firefighters’ union publicly accused the City Council Monday night of hampering democracy by encouraging city residents not to sign a ballot petition circulated by the union.
Tony Spitaleri, a retired fire captain and president of Palo Alto Professional Firefighters, Local 1319, said the council is setting a bad precedent by formally recommending that residents not sign a ballot measure that would require the city to hold an election any time it wants to change staffing levels at the Fire Department.
“I’ve been involved in Palo Alto for about 40 years, and I don’t ever recall an action by a Palo Alto City Council to hamper the democratic process to engage in public debate,” said Spitaleri, himself a member of the Sunnyvale City Council.
The council voted 7-2, with Gail Price and Nancy Shepherd dissenting, to approve a colleagues’ memo submitted by Karen Holman, Larry Klein and Greg Scharff. The memo recommends that the citizens of Palo Alto “1) read the complete Firefighters Union’s Petition and 2) once informed, decline to sign it.”
The memo calls the petition “bad government” and a “waste of money” at a time when the city is wrestling with growing budget gaps. If the union gets the needed 5,446 signatures to put the measure on the ballot, the election would cost the city about $190,000.
Spitaleri argued Monday that the council should let the residents decide for themselves whether or not to sign the union’s petition. He said the union’s circulated petition is no different than a petition by the League of California Cities calling for the state government to stop taking local funds to balance its budget. The purpose of the petition, he said, is to foster public debate.
“For the City Council to take action on this memo I believe would set a precedent in the city of Palo Alto that has never been set before,” Spitaleri said minutes before the council vote.
But for city officials, the differences between the firefighter petition and other ballot measures are glaring. The firefighters’ proposal would amend Palo Alto’s City Charter to require at least two public hearings and a vote by citizens before staffing levels could be changed or any fire stations closed or relocated.
The timing of the petition is also significant. The union’s contract with the city is set to expire June 30, and Palo Alto officials are preparing for tough negotiations. The city is also waiting for the results of an independent “standards of coverage” study analyzing the programs and staffing levels at the Fire Department. The Finance Committee is scheduled to hear an update on the study tonight (Tuesday).
Price and Shepherd were the only council members who voted against the colleagues’ memo, though both said they oppose the union’s petition. Shepherd said the colleagues’ memo is “condescending” toward those residents who already signed the petition. Price argued that approving the memo could make the city’s negotiations with the union even more difficult than they’re already expected to be.
“To take this action, we are basically saying that we’re going to adopt a more rigid approach to this and that we are suggesting that a more productive discussion and negotiation will not be feasible of probably,” Price said.
Vice Mayor Sid Espinosa and Councilman Yiaway Yeh also expressed serious misgivings about the proposed memo but chose to side with the council majority. Both said they were concerned about the impact of the memo on union negotiations. Espinosa said he has a “fundamental problem” with telling citizens not to sign a ballot petition.
But both Espinosa and Yeh agreed that the firefighters petition would severely limit the council’s ability to balance future budgets. Palo Alto officials are wrestling with an $8.3 million budget gap in fiscal year 2011, which begins July 1, and are planning to lay off dozens of city workers and eliminate a variety of programs and services.
Klein disputed Spitaleri’s argument that the council is hampering democratic debate and argued that council members are, in fact, exercising their democratic rights and their leadership by sharing their views with the citizenry. Klein argued that the petition itself, and not the colleagues’ memo, runs counter to the spirit of democracy.
“If this were on the ballot and somehow passed it would be the reverse of democracy,” Klein said. “We’d have a situation where one group of employees would have far greater rights than another group of employees in the city.
“I don’t think it’s appropriate or democratic.”
There’s much to admire and much to deplore with the firefighters’ petition. Rank and file are out in full force at the shopping centers getting signatures; the union president attacks City Council
for taking a position. This is HARD BALL all the way, and it’s going to take a citizenry with time and due diligence to sort it out, assuming it gets on the ballot. I personally feel there is intimidation going on, and the threat some petitioners seem to use
is that your house will burn down if this isn’t approved. What’s next? Will teachers demand the same locked-in positions, salaries, and benefits (de minimus, of course) or else your kids won’t have their homework read? Where does it stop? Ever hear of the “protection racket” run by criminals (pay or something bad will
happen to you)? It’ssad that firefighters (good guys generally, but so are most teachers, etc.) are being led this way, and “no” is not in their training.
Tony Spitaleri is known to not tolerate any dissent, so it is no surprise that he is attacking the city council. Clearly Spitaleri is not familiar with our city council when he states:
“I don’t ever recall an action by a Palo Alto City Council to hamper the democratic process to engage in public debate”
He forgets how Aram James was gavelled out of order and threatened with arrest by Burch and Morton when he dared to speak out against Benest (But I digress).
Spitaleri is only interested in making sure his union enjoy cushy jobs,with overblown salaries and ridiculous benefit packages., He does not care where the money comes from. he does not care about the interests of Palo Alto citizens.
Ignore his statements and do not sign the petition–if it does come to a vote, vote against it. Do not be suckered by Spitaleri’s scare tactics.
I’m looking forward to the Council resolutions that formally recommend that citizens vote for or against certain candidates for Council. Only a matter of time.
I oppose the firefighters’ petition, but the Council resolution is classic Palo Alto dysfunction.
I admire the work the firefighters do. Thank you.
But staffing levels and other budget issues are the responsibility of the city council. That is why we elect them. It is incredibly annoying that anybody thinks they should have special rules apply to their office locations and the number of employees.
Other city workers do not get such protections. We elect our city council to make the hard decisions. They have to balance the needs and the money. Let them do their job.
Shepard and Price both welcomed firefighters’ union support in their recent election campaign or at least didn’t want to step on their toes and egos. . Didn’t anyone see this coming?
We used to love our firefighters, but we don’t love:
1. This initiative shows them to be self-servicing in the extreme.
2. The $190,000 cost to the city for putting this on the ballot.
3. The fine print of this charter initiative, if passed by a 50% +1 vote, requires a 66.67% vote to change in the future; grossly unfair on its face.
4. Hiding behind revered Palo Alto Firefighter T-shirts and the goodwill of the Chili Cookoff, which I will boycott this year.
5. Coming on private property to solicit signatures.
6. Failing to disclose Tony Spitalari alone masterminded this initiative and is holding firefighters hostage with it.
7. The initiative is massively divisive.
8. Firefighters have effectively become ambulance drivers and paramedics in Palo Alto.
9. Ambulance/paramedics should be outsourced to become a more cost-effective service to our community.
Gail Price and Nancy Shepard are nice people but as yet are not politically savvy when it comes to hard ball politics, anyway they were both endorsed by the firefighters’union. Thank goodness the other members of the City Council were wide awake enough to see this petition gathering for what it is – ultimate control.
Unfortunately, Spitaleri’s ego is involved here, and he isn’t going to play nice. Meanwhile, the firefighters are acting as his lackeys and doing his bidding. I was appalled to hear the misinformation being given out by firefighters gathering signatures. A fire house near you may be closed, cutbacks in staff will increase response times etc.
So, if this petition gets on the ballot and it passes, you’ll see every other union in town clamoring for the same control over staffing levels, benefits, and ultimately our City budget. In fact Palo Alto is their test case.
Palo Alto should seriously consider disbanding the Palo Alto Fire Dept, and contracting fire services to Santa Clara County Fire and EMS transport services to American Medical Response. This is what several other cities in the county (like mine, Campbell) do now.
The County Fire/AMR service is great and the cost to each city is significantly lower thanks to shared resources. Plus, the county firefighters’ union can’t get a stranglehold on a particular city, since the fire dept is not connected to any one city.
It is very disappointing to see the Fire Union take this divisive action.
It is most gratifying to see seven of our nine elected Councilmembers providing pro-active leadership on this important city issue, clearly laying out how tremendously counter-productive this initiative is, and will prove, to be.
It is my hope rank and file firefighters grow a backbone and kick Mr. Spitalari to the curb as this initiative blows up in their faces on so many levels.
Dan from Campbell has an idea that Palo Alto should strongly consider, outsource fire and paramedic services to the county. His experiences and points make a lot of sense.
Why doesn’t someone start a petition that would outsource the Fire and Paramedic service to the county. Put it on the same ballot as Spitaleri’s power grab and see which way Palo Alto wants to go.
I agree with the notion of outsourcing fire and paramedic services to the county. Looks to me that this is Prop 13 redux – simple majority to pass, 2/3 to change.
This nonsense has got to stop.
Public employee unions are bankrupting our state and our communities.
And yes, intimidation is being used.
Any time there is talk or reducing benefits to police or fire, police say you won’t be safe, fire says you won’t be safe.
I read the average PA fireman made $175,000 last year in total compensation. That is for what 15 days work a month – some of that time is spent sleeping and some of that time is spent shopping at Safeway.
Police and fireman do an important job and yes at times a dangerous job but they enter these public safety positions by choice. If any public safety officer feels the rewards is not worth the risk, he/she is free like any other American to find other employment.
Considering the current 12% unemployment rate in CA, considering many employees in the private sector have taken pay cuts to keep their jobs, considering benefits are far bigger for public employees than private employees, and considering no public employee has ever taken a salary reduction, and considering all govt entities are have been spending increasing amountsd of money, it is time to just say NO.
If the fire union wants democracy then how about the idea that what is best for the majority of the population should take precedence over the needs of public employees – bankrupting the City or having residents pay higher and higher taxes so fireman can make $175,000 a year including a sweet retirement is absurd on the face of it.
I know; let’s all vote on everything! Direct democracy on every item that would come before the City Council. We can save ourselves a lot of money by each spending hours studying all the various issues. Then, we wouldn’t need a City Council!
Oops, I like representative democracy so I can spend my time doing what I do best, while someone we do elect spends time looking after our collective best interests.
Sorry Tony and crew, this is bad, bad, bad. Thanks to the seven who had the smarts to vote for the collegues memo, and shame on the two who didn’t see the wool being pulled over their eyes.
Did you know that Mr. Spitaleri is mayor of Sunnyvale(second term).
My family and I were in New York city and walked pass a fire station. I told them I was from Palo Alto, Ca and they said “say hi to Tony Spitaleri”. I said “who”? They responded “your fire department union president”. Crazy!
City of Morgan Hill went with Santa Clara County and it is costing them millions. There is really no savings and they still have to maintain the Fire Stations and equipment.
Morgan Hill is now looking at San Jose Fire because they are closer to the city than Santa Clara County.
The closest Santa Clara County station to Morgan Hill is in Campbell.
City of Gilroy was looking at Santa Clara County to contract with, but at this time Santa Clara County is not looking to take on more cities at this time.
Interesting data points, Firefighter. Do you have any sources to back them up? Or is this just “I heard from a guy over at the union hall…”
Dan, something to consider is that the City running the ambulance system actually generates money for the City. In fact, a 2009 audit shows that PAFD brought in over $2 mil in collected revenue on ambulance transports alone. If the city went with a private contractor like AMR, the city wouldn’t have access to this revenue stream. The City occasionally plays with the idea of turning to a private contractor but when they see how much money the program brings in they are surprised.
http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=14703
It was revealed at the City Council Meeting Monday night that you may withdraw your name from the Petition as follows:
If you’ve already signed the firefighter’s petition and you’ve now changed your mind and wish to withdraw your name from the Petition; you may go to the City Clerk’s office, fill out a form, and request your name be withdrawn, and it will not be counted with the total.
I have a wild hunch:some of the posters who are so alarmed by the firefighters’ petition had signed the petition to recall former governor Grey Davis, who was democratically elected and never convicted of any crimes or misdemeanors.
Signing the petition is only asking that the proposal be placed on the regular November election ballot. If it makes the ballot then the measure would still need to be approved or not approved by the people of Palo Alto.
Why did not all the Council members vote together on the issue if it’s such a bad idea? to let the people of Palo Alto have a say in public safety?
Public hearings and the peoples right to vote are a good thing.
Edward, not sure if you know but on your recent visit to New York City those FDNY firefighters knew Spitaleri probably due to the fact that Palo Alto Firefighters Local sold T-shirts after 9-11 attacks. And raised almost 1 million dollars to support the dead FDNY firefighters survivors. The check was presented by Palo Alto Firefighters in New York to the FDNY.
I don’t care for the fact that I can’t go grocery shopping without a man accosting me quite strongly, “Ma’am, Ma’am!! Are you registered to vote in Palo Alto?!” as I am just trying to enter a place of business (Safeway, Piazza’s). I DON’T ANSWER, as it is NOT a requirement to answer any STRANGER, however aggressive he is, in public. This approach adds to my dislike of their petition. I have posted before that if the firefighters had a table, chairs, big sig, that would be FINE and appropriate as they attempt to get signatures to place this on a ballot.
big sign (not big sig) that was a typo
How many Palo Altans have been cornered and pressured into signing this petition?
A sign means you are upfront about what you are representing; I can choose to look into it or not. Covering store entrances/exits physically means customers have to run a gamut, and I don’t like it.
It made me so uncomfortable at the Midtown Safeway maneuvering past an aggressive couple with clipboards asking you to sign their bogus fire petition, I now shop at Mi Pueblo in EPA.
What a great find. Mi Pueblo is a happening place and a great shopping experience.
I will never go back to Safeway after my uncomfortable confrontation with firefighters.
No matter how you feel about the firefighters petition, it was WRONG for the city council to vote on this. They should have NEVER cross into this area…what is next, take a vote on how the public should vote or sign other future petitions or measures??
I’m very disappointed in our council.
Mark
$2MM in revenue from the ambulance service is great..But only if the cost of doing so – 24/7/365 – is less than $2M. Not likely
To Gwen,
So what was so aggressive? I found them nothing but very nice. In fact, I told one firefighter that I never sign anything until I read about it. He handed me a pamphlet and encourage me to look at both sides (the city and the firefighters). No pressure.
PS. Try Safeway in Menlo Park. Very nice.
Palo Alto should not close, cut, limit the fire fighter/fire department. For those who agree with changing the present operation of the fire department, stop and think….. it could be your home on fire, your child needing urgent medical assistance, or your parent.
Yes it is costly but do you want to gamble with your safety. It is up to you. I would encourage folks to sign the petition. I am encouraging everyone I know in Palo Alto.
Suggest reading Patty Fisher’s column in the SJ Mercury News. She offers a very nice argument to not sign the petition. I love the fire fighters but they should help out our horrible budget issue by taking a modest salary cut on from what I understand are salaries approaching 200k.
I prefer the Milk Pail in MountainView myself, fresher produce.
The firefighters are not gaining anyone’s goodwill or favor by their attitude and this ballot push. Union supporters Shepard and Price did not receive my vote in the recent CC election. They are supposed to be neutral and represent citizens’ interests — not the unions. State Assembly Josh Becker, who is promoting his firefighter union endorsement, will also NOT get my vote for the same reason.
Patty Fisher’s column was right on. All of us are cutting back in these times. We need a regional dispatch center, partnering with other communities to reduce costs and staffing. EMTs — not fire fighters — can handle most medical emergencies.
It’s no surprise that Nancy Shepherd and Gail Price voted against a Council resolution to oppose a Firefighters Union effort to fix the number of firefighters in the Charter. Gail Price is a creature of government, and is either totally sympathetic to public employees labor unions, or a complete puppet of these groups.
Nancy Shepherd, virtually unknown to Palo Alto politics prior to her running for election to the Council, was backed heavily by PAUSD influences–which are union-dominated, and mostly tax-and-spend. Shepherd showed absolutely no understanding of municipal processes during the election, and continues to be clueless now that she is a council member.
If Palo Alto had a soul, it would mount a Recall against these two union shills immediately.
Mr. Spitaleri, I don’t ever recall a UNION putting out such a self-serving petition before. Council is completely correct in their assessment and reccomendation.
While I appreciate our firefighters, there is room for reduction in the department and the city is dealing with a budget crisis. I won’t sign your peition and I plan to vote against if it gets to the voters.
This is bad policy, and Council is right to take a stand.
Irritated Mom?
“There is room for reduction in the department” I would ask how you come to this conclusion? What data or studies have you seen that support your comments?
Some members of the City Council want the voters to not have public hearings on the subject, no vote regarding possible station closures or reduction in services. Some Council members are already calling a not released study biased when they have not read or seen it yet. The study they approved.
Nobody at this point knows what the sudy says or does not say. Irritated Mom is saying there is room for reduction, how does she know?
If the firefighters measure is such a bad idea as some say why did the City of Palo Alto Council not 9-0 in favor of not giving the residents the option of even putting the measure on the ballot for a yes or no vote? If the measure makes the ballot it still would need to be approved by the residents of Palo Alto before it goes into effect.
The firefighters Spitaleri claims to represent privately fear his bullying tactics.
Everyone knows this isn’t about safety, nor democracy; this is a pure labor power play cooked up by Tony Spitaleri as his swan song.
Firefighters (glorified ambulance drivers, really) realize that, when Spitaleri is finally gone, they will be left with a city smoldering with resentment and frightened more by giant city paychecks and benefit liabilities than the fire a month this city experiences.
They realize their union may have lit the match which burns Palo Alto Fire to the ground, creating a favorable atmosphere to merge it with Santa Clara County Emergency Services.
I agree. In June the City should evaluate Santa Clara County. Time to get a better deal for our fire services….
I’m really glad that the Council is taking a stand, otherwise most people would not understand what the real issues are in this case. When I see how much firefighters make in overtime per year and how exceptionally generous their retirement benefits are, I think it’s not time to feel sorry for the PA firefighters, but rather time to restrain these excesses.
You mean $2 million per year in emergency service revenue doesn’t cover the $18 million Palo Alto annual fire budget?
Spending 9 times what you take in doesn’t seem like a good deal to me.
What about working with the county so our services are better and our costs lower? Anything to get us away from the greedy firefighters’ union. When you see demands like this when times are tough for us all, I say offer jobs to people who want these jobs at lower wage and benefit rates. Otherwise, we’ll be knowingly heading down the Vallejo path to bankruptcy.
I was a fire fighter in a previous career, but think this petition is a mistake. When I was kid, I lived in a small town in Southern California. Our town couldn’t afford the big city fire department but we still wanted the benefits and safety of a fire department. So our community leaders formed a volunteer fire department. We stilled need the equipment and volunteers needed to take training to be prepared, but we got much of the safety benefit at a fraction of the cost. I imagine this would not work in Palo Alto, but maybe we could supplement the over time and current staff with volunteers who want to help the community. It is a great way to be of service and help out your city.
Firefighter from another Community – You need to check your facts. Santa Clara County Fire owns the stations and all of the equipment in Morgan Hill. The City has realized substantial savings from the 1st day they contracted with Count Fire.
Those that claim that firefighters are glorified ambulance drivers really need to do homework and stop making sound bite comments, this is a situation that is twenty years in the works. as cities were struggling to keep public safety aganecy compensation even near that to the private sector the economy fell apart, anyone remember the dot com bust? And now epic economic collapse in the worst state? Hard not to see it coming. You should be blaming the councils for agreeing to these contracts over the last two decades. How many of you have said no to a pay raise when times were good? Also the job scope of a firefighter is 10x what it used to be, put volunteers in?? good luck, with state and federal mandates it takes more than just goodwill and intentions to provide high level public safety, and sorry I don’t want the junior varisity taking care of my kids, my heart attack, or my house on fire if it is me. Public safety benefits need to be adjusted for sure and I am sure they are willing to look at that but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Just like every other profession they need to look at the future and be realistic about sustaining the high level of service they provide and be willing to make some serious sacrifices for the common good. If you really want to make a statement to the firefighters do it when your house is on fire or you are having a heart attack tell them no thanks I’ll wait for a volunteer, that is standing behind your words. If all of you are looking for someone to blame than look at your council and manager that’s where the buck stops.
Fire Fighters deserve a decent wage and benefits to protect them after years of public service. But the models we use today are broken and the agreements of the past need to be rethought.
We have cooperative agreements with other cities and fire departments because we do not want to staff for the 4 or 5 alarm fires in smaller cities like Palo Alto. People expect and deserve medical and fire response within 4 or 5 minutes, but not all responders need to be there in that window and not all fires require hazard material experts or 3 engine companies. And I, having seen dedicated volunteer at work, know they can supplement full time experts to reduce overtime and cover for professionals as a back up. Many young men, who want a career as a professional fire fighter, do volunteer work as a way to get work experience and resume as best candidate for next open job. We need to rethink our models, since we can no longer afford the old one.
Frankly I am amazed that the city council wants to snuff out the petition. Yes, I did sign, and now I do have some concerns about it–but need more info to decide who will have my vote. But the firefighters, and any citizens who get the signatures do have a right to put it on the ballot. I don’t like strong arm tactics telling us it is wrong to do that (petition). I am not sure right now which side is right, but I do believe in the democratic process and putting this on the ballot. If it is wrong due to the costs of putting it on the ballot, what about all the many times the schools have held special elections?
My wife is alive today because of the speedy response and the skill and dedication of the firefighters and paramedics
Let me get it straight:signing a petition financed by a right wing billionaire that enabled the recall process of a democratically elected California governor who had never abuse his power, broken the law or been accused of any wrong doing is kosher, but signing a ballot petition circulated by the Palo Alto firefighters union is “hampering democracy”?
My wife is alive today because of the speedy response and the skill and dedication of the Engine 4 firefighters and wonderful paramedics THAT WE HAVE *NOW*.
There is NO WAY I would want to see these services outsourced to some low bidder. Come ON people.
The sitting council approves hundreds of less important things. None of these are worth losing a human life to find money to pay for them.
I say keep staffing at present levels and I don’t trust the present council to do it unless we tie their hands by something like this initiative.
Hey jerryl: The U.S. military has also done great things. Should we also let our military just spend however much it wants without any limitations from Congress and the President and the Courts?
Just because firefighters have done some great things, it doesn’t mean they deserve a blank check. Just because the council has done some stupid things, it doesn’t mean we should stop it when it finally tries to be sensible.
Recall Shepard and Price.
To TF,
Just call Morgan Hill Fire. The city owns the fire stations and the land there on and respondable for the maintaining them.
How about the response time I mention? It is sad to see fire engines from Campbell and Cupertino driving down highway 85 and 101 for greater alarm fires in Morgan Hill. Now don’t tell me that Gilroy and San Jose will response…they will only if their fire engines are not on a call in their own city. Want to take that change??
Menlo Park was so fed up with responding into north Palo Alto on 100’s medical calls each year because Palo Alto engines were on their own calls, that they just change their responses (last month)to fires only. Call Menlo Park Fire to confirm.
the proposal is bad legislation and should not be a ballot measure. If it does qualify I would bet that the community will rally together and defeat the measure overwhelmingly to the future disadvantage of the the fire fighters union.
I have been a professional firefighter (in another community) for 15 years. Never once did the salary factor into my decision to choose this profession. I do it to serve my community. During my career I’ve seen lives saved, lives lost, joyous and horrific things. It pains me to hear what some of you have to say about the service I’ve dedicated my life to. It’s OK to disagree with the tactics this Union is using but don’t attack an honest profession that you obviously know little about. As you sit in your glass house ask yourself what impact you’ve had on those around you in your chosen career.
To those who are taking issue with the fire dept generating over 2 million through paramedic transports, the City is not a private company selling a product or service. How many other City departments generate any revinue let alone make money that offsets its operating budget?
The fire depts budget does note reflect the money it makes. That money offsets it’s cost. Haz Mat fees, transport fees, Stanfords contribution all lower the budget cost to Palo Alto.
all this debate is a good thing….congrats to the palo alto council for doing their job…paying attention to the budget…and ps..don’t shop at the safeway in los altos….ugh
Morgan Hill would not have contracted with County Fire if their had not been any definitive cost savings in relation to the service they provided when they were trying to do it all on their own. Give them (MH council) some credit for recognizing that. All other things being equal, San Jose would be hard pressed to match the County Fire contract b/c of their staffing levels (four to an engine vs. three and five to a Truck vs. four). That is also not to mention the challenges they are facing within their own city (read that fire fighter layoffs, station closures and pay reductions, see Murky News articles). I don’t think they are in any position to take anything else on at this point. As it is now, Morgan Hill receives not just fire suppression but a broad range of services from their FD contract, including Hazardous Materials, Public Education, Fire Prevention, Paramedic services and full shop services for all apparatus maintenance.
Of course no city would contract with County Fire or AMR if a) it wasn’t cost-effective and b) public safety would be compromised in any way. Does anyone really think that the cities of Campbell, Los Gatos, Cupertino, Los Altos, Morgan Hill et al care less about public safety than Palo Alto? Be serious..
Also, only Palo Alto and South City staff their own FD ambulances. All other cities in Santa Clara, San Mateo and Alameda counties use AMR for medic transport. If running your own ambulances were really that cost-effective, don’t you think all the other cities would do it too?
Please everyone, lets take a close look at the facts. The fact is that if the firefighters, who are making gobs of money working a minimal number of days, and retiring at 50 years of age, would be willing to take the same temporary cut in pay others have endured there would be no need to consider closing anything. They’ve refused to do so.
Sheeesh, the head of the union even has two jobs — how taxing can the job be if you can take two jobs? Making well over $100k/year base pay, certainly a second job is not essential for a reasonable standard of living. Don’t get me wrong, I have enormous respect and appreciation for our city’s firefighters, but I also believe they are being selfish/self-serving in this petition drive.
Cudos to the city council for taking a stand. We do NOT need to spend almost $200k on a ballot measure. This petition will only increase our deficit and tie the hands of city council. Bad, bad idea.
Dan-
The other cities would LOVE to run their own ambulance service because they know it is better for their citizens, however, they are PROHIBITED from doing so by state law. The AMR lobby got legislation passed prohibiting cities from doing their own ambulance transport. Palo Alto and So. San Francisco are only allowed to because they are “grandfathered” in… they were doing it before the law was passed.
To TF:
You are correct sir, County Fire outright owns both fire stations in Morgan Hill and associated equipment. No need to check your facts with “Morgan Hill Fire Dept.” Have a nice day.
Whew?
Seems like most of the posters here are presenting their emotions, opinions and thoughts as TRUTH.
I beg to disagree. Your thoughts are your thoughts. My opinion is mine alone. Some of your written statements are misguided at best.
One of our children is enrolled at UC Berkeley and another is at St. Mary’s – Like Palo Alto and Stanford, Berkeley, Moraga and Orinda all choose to have the local fire department provide paramedic ambulance services. My wife and I have been looking at retirement properties in the north bay. Are you aware that Marin County has a county wide fire department based paramedic ambulance service? In Sonoma County so do several other communities… As does a wide variety of other volunteer and paid fire departments in northern and southern California. Don’t trust me… Do your own research!
What kind of insurance do you have on your car, home, medical insurance? The cheapest? Good for you! My CSAA towing insurance will tow my car, my wife’s car and my childrens car 100 miles at no additional cost.
What kind of research are you doing? Why is it that the Mountain View Fire Department pays over $ 2,000,000.00 a year for overtime and no one is running around screaming in Mountain View? Isn’t it interesting that the local papers aren’t even reporting it?
Motive and Opportunity? Perhaps the city council and people in city hall are trying to DISTRACT us from how they have beeen managing our city? Just my opinion. Consultants aside. City Council Members aside. Including benefits, overtime and salaries, it appears that we have one of the most inexpensive fire departments in the bay area to operate.
What kind of services do you want? Remember the San Andreas Fault runs through our town. Palo Alto isn’t Campbell, Los Altos, Cupertino or Morgan Hill.
What are the services that we want our fire department to provide? What level of service are we willing to support. Do you really want to wait in line for the next available EMT, paramedic, firefighter, ambulance, fire engine? What are the funding mechanisms?
Can we please have an intelligent and informed discussion relative to this very important service.
We can all improve the way we do things. You, me, our fire department, our firefighters and paramedics, this paper and the city council.
Whatever happened to consensus?
Once I’m inside Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and Safeway, I don’t like standing in a long line to check out. Do you want to stand in line and wait a long time for an ambulance or fire engine to come to your house, your business, to assist your family, your loved ones, your children?
Are you listening to the people in need who have been receiving these vital services? They seem very appreciative. Maybe we should be paying more attention to the people who are receiving the service and come up with ways to support them and the services we will be receiving someday soon too.
Death and taxes are both a part of life right now. Sure I like to avoid paying my tax bill. Trust me, I’d like to avoid dying as long as possible too. {{{Smile}}} Might it be possible to ease up a bit on each other and our firefighters?
What’s very interesting is the number of people posting here who are misinformed, uninformed or is just downright ignorant of the facts. I understand that emotions tend to run high in stressful times. And let’s face it, few things are more stressful than monetary problems – whether it’s individual, family, city, state, etc. When times get tough belts have to be tightened and tough decisions have to be made. Whats essential and non-essential? What’s discretionary and non-discretionary? What’s wanted vs what’s needed? Did the City Manager need a $200K assistant? According to him that was essential. How about a new Police building? Very much needed according to Police officials. New library and community center? Gotta have it depending on who you talk to. So here are firefighters, not asking for a new building or an additional assistant, but simply asking that ESSENTIAL emergency services – YOUR essential EMERGENCY services not be stripped any further than they already have been. Look it up people, just because it’s not reported doesn’t mean things haven’t already been eliminated. And by the way Teresa, those glorified ambulance drivers happen to drive to house fires, wildland fires, commercial bldg. fires, hazardous material fires/leaks/spills, heart attacks, car accidents, bus accidents, train accidents, choking children and/or adults, plane crashes, drowning victims, floods, collapsed buildings, exploding buildings, electrical hazards, biological hazards, strokes, seizures, gunshot victims, stabbing victims, etc., etc., etc! They are exposed to sights, sounds, smells and compromises to their own safety that the VAST majority of you bashing them would run away from (fast), no matter how much you’re paid. My point here is not to paint firefighters as deities, they clearly are not (as any of us are not). But I do want to say that some of the ignorant statements posted here and elsewhere is unfortunate. Get your information and facts straight please! Attack their methods with this ballot measure if you like, that’s your choice. Most people or groups of people are going to fight for something they feel is important, and the method may not always be sensible. But attacking what they do as not needed, or saying it could be done with less is dangerous double talk. Remember, it’s called EMERGENCY SERVICES for a reason. Most of the work they do is urgent, which means it is time sensitive! The City Manager says he needs an assistant, Police say they need a new building, library advocates say they need a new building (and keep the others that already exist), City Council says they need a new PA system at the chambers – the list goes on and on. Firefighters aren’t asking for more, they’re just saying don’t close any stations. It’s a matter of safety and continuing to provide solid ESSENTIAL EMERGENCY SERVICE.