Town Square

Post a New Topic

Police mid-level managers forming own group

Original post made on Oct 1, 2009

Seven Palo Alto police captains and lieutenants are breaking off from the larger city management and professional group to form their own bargaining unit.

Read the full story here Web Link posted Thursday, October 1, 2009, 8:12 PM

Comments (30)

Posted by Old Palo Alto, a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Oct 1, 2009 at 8:43 pm

This is comical! All these cry babies are lucky to have a job. I say if they try to strike, fire them. What the unions do is leverage public safety for their own benefit. The taxpayers have had enough. I'm sick of paying property taxes, special assessments, income taxes, sales tax, gas tax, the list goes on, the these whiners can sit on their butts all day. I mean, how hard is it to be a cop in Palo Alto?


Posted by silly, a resident of South of Midtown
on Oct 1, 2009 at 9:25 pm

Put your money where your mouth is then


Posted by NeilPatrickHaris, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Oct 1, 2009 at 9:35 pm

I agree, this is a joke.
Something like this could only happen here. What the hay are all these city workers up to?
They claim loyalty to the city and it's people. They act like they care about all of us, LOL.
What they want is unreasonable. This mess is far from over and will only get worse. costing all of palo alto more money. Bunch of selfish traders thats what they are.

Just because you work in palo alto. Does not entitle you to earn as much as it's residents.


Posted by ed, a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Oct 1, 2009 at 9:54 pm

"Just because you work in palo alto does not entitle you to earn as much as it's residents"

I think this quote says it all. It is ok for palo alto residents to take advantage of the less fortunate when cashing in on their IPOs and hedge funds but how dare public service workers take action to ensure a decent living. Selfish PA residents...double standard as usual!


Posted by Retired Staffer, a resident of another community
on Oct 1, 2009 at 11:41 pm

This is the latest example of the failure of the City Council to deal with labor issues at all levels.


Posted by Union Man, a resident of Barron Park
on Oct 2, 2009 at 6:11 am

Officer Dan Ryan (current PAPD spokesperson) has remained silent on this issue and was past POA president and Jay knows this and yet Jay is unwilling to go after the real story here. Jay is pro police on all issues. Its Cops protecting Cops.


Posted by cc, a resident of Southgate
on Oct 2, 2009 at 8:18 am

And who else is going to protect Cops? Certainly not the Public or the City...


Posted by Vince, a resident of College Terrace
on Oct 2, 2009 at 9:02 am

Dear Old Palo Alto, perhaps you should attend the PAPD citizen's academy, or take advantage of the civilian ride-along program before you ask the question "how hard is it to be a cop in Palo Alto." I think you'd be surprised how challenging and demanding the job is on many different levels. Another example of the loudest critics being the least informed.


Posted by wha?, a resident of another community
on Oct 2, 2009 at 10:18 am

Keep yelling "fire them all" and you will get more unions as staff try and protect themselves.

Next, pick up sticks and rocks and chase staff down the street.

Some of you really are acting like a mob.

Keene, are you reading this? Are you pleased that all staff are scrambling to protect themsleves through strength in numbers?


Posted by Let's tone it down, a resident of South of Midtown
on Oct 2, 2009 at 10:36 am

It seems as though most of the people posting on this site are angry SEIU members and a few angry community members.

I respect our police and appreciate the difficult and important job they do and I live in Palo Alto, but I do not make as much as a police lieutenant, nor do I get anything close to the very generous benefits they do.

I hear your frustration with these proposed cuts, but we are all experiencing cuts in salaries and benefits. I'm sorry, but this economy is hurting everyone, why do the unions think they should be immune to market factors when EVERYONE is suffering? The demands are not realistic.


Posted by ??, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Oct 2, 2009 at 10:48 am

Let's tone it down, I am not sure of the point you have attempted to make? Please clarify.


Posted by A Noun Ea Mus, a resident of Professorville
on Oct 2, 2009 at 11:06 am

Yeah "let's tone it down" and then proceed to use ones one perceived/real suffering to justify inflicting such on others.

By way of a Wild West analogy..it's as if the Keene gang has entered the saloon and is waving around a Grand Jury Report and brandishing six shooters. Meanwhile everyone is ducking for cover under (unionized) tables.

Could Keene & Co. actually be hired agents of AFL-CIO? Or SEIU? Or even (drumroll and gasp)....ACORN.

Too bad Bill Maher doesn't do a local PA cable show about this.


Posted by Literacy Campaign, a resident of College Terrace
on Oct 2, 2009 at 11:57 am

It seems that very few of the people posting in this thread have actually read the article being discussed. The only thing worse than uninformed commentary is uninformed commentary with an agenda.

While I have no opinion whether the new association is a good thing or a bad thing (at least until after they negotiate a contract), I am concerned about the tone of the discussion. Blaming the City Manager because the cops don't want to be Teamsters or making inane comments about an individual police officer who has nothing to do with this story is not only a waste of time and energy, it is counter-productive.


Posted by ??, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Oct 2, 2009 at 12:31 pm

I want to agree with Let's tone it down but was trying to understand the point being made in order to do so. I also agree with Literacy Campaign that everyone above speaking negatively about this article has agenda. I like what the police managers are doing and stand on my belief that blaming ANYONE is ridiculous in this matter.


Posted by profile, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Oct 2, 2009 at 1:00 pm

cops are still talking angrily to ''suspects'' of non white ''races''. then when its found out no crime was commited,they lay back and smile like they are talking to a soccer mom! just witnessed this.they talk to you like you are already guilty! NOTHING has changed!!


Posted by Al, a resident of Crescent Park
on Oct 2, 2009 at 1:00 pm

> I also agree with Literacy Campaign that everyone
> above speaking negatively about this article has agenda

And what might that agenda be?


Posted by ??, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Oct 2, 2009 at 1:43 pm

Agenda being, unhappy residents are looking for a forum to complain about their issues against city workers, pensions, benefits, the way they do their jobs. My opinion is that this is not the forum for these types of concerns. Really, my comment was intended to strengthen what Literacty Campaign commented at first. That's it.


Posted by Al, a resident of Crescent Park
on Oct 2, 2009 at 2:05 pm

> unhappy residents are looking for a forum to complain
> about their issues against city workers, pensions,
> benefits, the way they do their jobs.

Seems more like a list of complaints .. rather than an agenda ..

Agendas generally promote some change or the acquisition of something of value .. like installing a union .. or removing a union .. or getting something of value to the promoter of the "agenda".


Posted by Kenny, a resident of Menlo Park
on Oct 2, 2009 at 2:34 pm

NPH: Just because you post in Palo Alto Online. Does not entitle you to the minimal standards of grammar of it's residents.


Posted by YSK, a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Oct 2, 2009 at 9:24 pm

Yeah ... crybaby's. Until they put THEIR lives on the line for YOURS. Talk about crybaby's. So much that whiny Palo Altans don't know about what really goes on in this City and what COULD be going on without the kind of police force that we have. By the way, how much of YOUR life is on the line running about Starbucks in your ID Badges and looking pretentious on your computers? Do YOU have contracts? Unions? Other means of ensuring the salaries and benefits in YOUR jobs? You bet a lot of you do. Yet you deny it to others who actually risk their lives to protect and serve someone other than themselves or the capitalistic bottom line. The emergency personnel working in this City cannot afford to even LIVE here, yet you begrudge them the right to make sure their compensation is fair.

@No One Eats Moose? You wrote: "By way of a Wild West analogy..it's as if the Keene gang has entered the saloon and is waving around a Grand Jury Report and brandishing six shooters. Meanwhile everyone is ducking for cover under (unionized) tables."

You still give me whopping headaches with your arcane references. Medicine for headaches is expensive, and I'm uninsured. I'm thinking of suing.


Posted by Old Palo Alto, a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Oct 3, 2009 at 11:47 pm

Well let's see what life threatening capers they are currently working on! 1. A guy growing pot in his bedroom 2. Someone stealing tomatoes from an elderly couples garden 3. Directing traffic at Town and Country (it does take half the force to do this). 4. Victor Frost.

I can see where they need more money as their lives are in danger constantly.


Posted by George, a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Oct 4, 2009 at 9:27 am

Old Palo Alto, you're guilty of selective memory I'm afraid, and almost to the point of not being deserving of a response or mention. How shallow, ignorant, and disrespectful can a person be? Well you just answered that question. I'm guessing our PAPD was quite challenged and busy when they were investigating and arresting robbery suspects, prosecuting the man who abducted and raped the high school student, taking a loaded gun off a wanted felon, being the first responders to a string of teenage suicides, and countless other unpredictable situations. Like someone mentioned earlier, maybe you should become more informed and attened the citizen's academy or go on a ride-along. But we both know you won't. You'll snipe from your timid, cowardly existence, criticizing people and things that you know little or nothing about. One thing I'm very sure of. Whatever the PAPD does, you would neither have the qualifications or fortitude to even consider.


Posted by Herb Borock, a resident of Professorville
on Oct 4, 2009 at 2:33 pm

In June 1978 when California voters were approving Proposition 13, Palo Alto voters were amending the Charter by adding Article V, Compulsory Arbitration for Fire and Police Department Employee Disputes.

I don't understand how a bargaining unit of over 200 managers and professionals could include five (or seven) Police lieutenants (and captains) who have given up the right to strike in exchange for the right to compulsory arbitration to resolve "all disputes or controversies pertaining to wages, hours, or terms and conditions of employment which remain unresolved after good faith negotiations" between the City and their employee organization.

The other managers and professionals don't want to give up their right to strike.

The Police employees involved might prefer to rely on their right to compulsory arbitration instead of being bound to an agreement agreed to by a larger group of which the Police employees are only a small part.

It is probably also in the interest of the City Manager and City Council to have Police employees be in a different bargaining unit than employees without the right to binding arbitration.


Posted by yeah rite, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Oct 4, 2009 at 4:46 pm

to papd supporter,,,have you ever saved a life with no weapons agaisnt a gang that was beating a non white? i have,and police didnt even search for the white suspects! im still in shock frtom this. you are the kind of people who are on thier last legs


Posted by cc, a resident of Southgate
on Oct 4, 2009 at 6:29 pm

No weapons? Like, just your voice and your presence? Cops do that all the time, ALL the time. Oh, and fire fighters, soldiers, ninja's etc. You must have either been very lucky, or you are some sort of super hero. Or one of the above occupations. Either way, keep up the good work, and don't forget to call 911.
Don't forget what uncle Ted says:
Web Link
rock and roll!


Posted by Old Palo Alto, a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Oct 4, 2009 at 7:28 pm

George. I didn't mean to be disrespectful and after reflecting on that comment you're right, it was an ignorant thing to say. I grew up in a really bad and dangerous environment where crime and violence were an everyday event. I had my life put in harms way many times and did things I'm not proud of to tell the truth. The cops were TOUGH where I grew up. Now that I've built a fortune from scratch and live in Palo Alto, it bothers me that in this paradise we call Palo Alto, civil servants whine and complain for more money. Given the perspective of where I came from, I tend to be hard about these types of things.


Posted by cops, a resident of Barron Park
on Oct 5, 2009 at 1:27 pm

yeah,cops do that all the time,but they get six figure salaries,and they have authority. point is ,every day people avoid trouble and defuse situations but cops get all the crdit for being ''protectors''. citizens get no props. cops are PAID do do it. we dont get anything fpr our police work, how bout a six figure paycheck...


Posted by forget?, a resident of Charleston Meadows
on Oct 5, 2009 at 1:29 pm

apparently you didnt read. the person DID CALL ''911 and cops didnt search for ''suspects''. they are REQUIRED to search for attempted murderers!!


Posted by cc, a resident of Southgate
on Oct 5, 2009 at 1:37 pm

the guy never said he called 911...he only had a story about cops that don't help.
Oh, you want a six figure cop salary? You have to go to all the BS calls too. Like barking dogs, leaf blowers, my neighbor painted their house hot pink, black people just walked down my street, etc. You can have the job! No Thanks.
By the way, who expects to get paid for good samaritan work? It's called community people, it used to be everywhere. Now people don't want to get involved, or they want to get paid for being a good human. What is this world coming to?


Posted by anon, a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Oct 5, 2009 at 3:57 pm

Im shaking my head reading all of the comments and one thing keeps coming to mind...... TPARS!!!


If you were a member and logged in you could track comments from this story.

Post a comment

Posting an item on Town Square is simple and requires no registration. Just complete this form and hit "submit" and your topic will appear online. Please be respectful and truthful in your postings so Town Square will continue to be a thoughtful gathering place for sharing community information and opinion. All postings are subject to our TERMS OF USE, and may be deleted if deemed inappropriate by our staff.

We prefer that you use your real name, but you may use any "member" name you wish.

Name: *

Select your neighborhood or school community: * Not sure?

Comment: *

Verification code: *
Enter the verification code exactly as shown, using capital and lowercase letters, in the multi-colored box.

*Required Fields

How Bad Policy Happens
By Douglas Moran | 21 comments | 1,461 views

The life of Zarf
By Sally Torbey | 10 comments | 1,111 views

Freshman Blues Don't Mean Wrong College
By John Raftrey and Lori McCormick | 1 comment | 890 views

Background and Ideas for the Comp Plan
By Steve Levy | 14 comments | 815 views

When Grandparents Visit
By Cheryl Bac | 4 comments | 814 views