Town Square

Post a New Topic

The Obama Motor Co.

Original post made by Sharon, Midtown, on May 31, 2009


"Back in December, in an economy far, far away, then-CEO Rick Wagoner tossed out the scary cost to taxpayers of $100 billion if General Motors wasn't saved by the government.
Well, GM was saved in December and again in March, and as early as today the feds will rescue it a third time in a prepackaged bankruptcy that is already costing at least $50 billion,
and that's for starters. Welcome to Obama Motors, and what is likely to be a long, expensive and unhappy exercise in political car making.

Taxpayers have so far put up nearly $20 billion, which was supposed to be a loan at market rates but under Treasury's forced restructuring will mostly be converted into equity in the new GM.
The feds are also putting up $30.1 billion in "debtor in possession" financing and will effectively nationalize the once-mighty auto maker by taking roughly 60% ownership.
(That's not counting $12.5 billion to save GMAC, the company's financing arm.)
The Canadian government will go along for the ride for 12% of the new GM, the UAW will get about 17.5%,
and the hapless bond holders have to settle for 10%.Web Link

One of the brokerage houses said Friday that the expected trading range for GM common was $0.01.
That reflects the $50Bn in our money and the concessions by the UAW and all of the physical assets and goodwill.

Bondholders took 10% of next to nothing over first cut at nothing. But thats ok, they have Obama's gratitude.

Comments (47)

 +   Like this comment
Posted by Looking and Laughing !!!
a resident of another community
on May 31, 2009 at 8:05 pm

This is so true: long, expensive and unhappy exercise in political car making.

Imagine
The political cars designed by congress and make by old obese union workers that only work 18 hours a week.

Of course they will now magically get CAFE standard fuel milage and meet all environ-mental green guidelines.

I am looking forward to the absolute insane management standards of the new Government Motors.

You people will have to pay for these cars you can not even own or drive yourself.

The best part is I can't wait for the future when Obama takes over Apple Computer because they charge too much for a computer that latino women can't afford. And Obama comes to the rescue and FIRES all the white men at Apple.



 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on May 31, 2009 at 8:21 pm


If you buy GM cars like the VOLT you will get a $7,500 credit payed for buy Other People Money.
Still it will not be cheap like the 30s "peoples car" the VW in Germany.
Volt will cost $30K plus with the subsidy.
It will probably be mandated for all gov fleets and state fleets of car also.

Friends of mine who lived in through the USSR remember the state produced cars like the LadaWeb Link

The larger corruption will be when government tries to vindicate its ownership by favoring GM over Ford and the other auto makers that aren't wards of the state.
The TARP legislation contained one blatant example in the form of a $7,500 tax credit for consumers who buy GM's new electric car, the Chevy Volt.Web Link

"Mr. Obama likes to say he's a pragmatist who only prefers a government solution when it will work.
But in resurrecting an industrial auto policy that even the French long ago abandoned, the President has made himself GM's de facto CEO. Our guess is that he'll come to regret it as much as taxpayers will".


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Outside Observer
a resident of another community
on May 31, 2009 at 8:28 pm

After the Arab oil embargo in the 70's, the government mandated fuel standards that simply weren't doable with the technology of the times. The result were some of the worst USA cars ever made, especially Fords. You don't see any of those cars on the road today, yet you will see older USA cars, and european and Japanese cars made in the late 70's and early 80's.

"Government Motors" will make the "Ford Fairmont" look like the standard for luxury and technical sophistication.

Ultimately, I think government control of GM will prove to be the single most important factor in the renunciation of socialism that will happen in the 2012 elections.

Lets just hope that "Government Motors" and all of the coming socialist agenda will be put back in the bottle, hopefully to never emerge again.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on May 31, 2009 at 11:55 pm

We won't have enough money to keep GM and Chrysler alive indefinitely, even with the Federal Reserve's printing presses running in overdrive.

The only way for GM and Chrysler to succeed, for awhile longer, will be for the government to substantially reduce competition from foreign brands and tax gas to the point that Ford's profitabile reliance on trucks and SUV sales drives it, too, into bankruptcy.

Anyone want to bet against that eventually happening?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 1, 2009 at 5:27 am

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

I pity the family of 4 who vacation in their 2012 Pelosi. I am reminded of the old joke -
"Comes the revolution, we will all eat strawberries."
"But I don't like strawberries, they make me break out and itch."
"Comes the revolution, you will eat strawberries or else!"


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Perspective
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 1, 2009 at 7:18 am

This was and is absolutely predictable. How many people are going to bother investing in the car companies now?

How many more times over how many more hundreds of years and millions of people must people suffer because of this seemingly benign but life-sucking belief that goverment running ANYTHING is better than private people/companies running anything?

It is not that everyone else is smarter than the Russians, and so made better cars, it was that RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT ran their car business.

It isn't that the USA is smarter than, say, the French, and so invented better health care delivery and outcomes in all areas including inventions in techs and meds, it is that we have not yet let the govt take over our health care ( that will soon change, and in 30 years we will wonder why there was such a tremendous slow down in med/procedure/tech development starting with the Obama Admin).

It isn't that America was so much smarter than the Chinese, and therefore built better planes, it is because GOVT ran making planes in China, and private ran it here.

It wasn't that America was so much better at running oil fields and refineries, so delivered cheaper, cleaner fuel than France when France nationalized its oil/energy companies, its because their GOVT ran it.

We really must get it through our heads that millions of private citizens, eaching working toward their own "greed" for gain, if you will, will always compete with each other to invent, produce, refine, adapt, and improve better in response to markets than a few politicians and their bureaucrats who are operating only on the "greed" of power, cutting out any true competition like a huge monopoly, ( where are the people who always scream "anti-trust" at ..say..Microsoft..for cutting out the competition. Wouldn't anyone with half a brain think that our Fed Govt is a lot more off a monopoly than the big, bad Microsoft?)





 +   Like this comment
Posted by Looking and Laughing !!!
a resident of another community
on Jun 1, 2009 at 11:10 am

Walter here is your *NEW* car!

The 2012 Pelosi GTxi SS/RT Sport Edition
Web Link

Soon to be mandated by Palo Alto municipal code.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 1, 2009 at 11:52 am



New York - Two companies that have received billions of dollars in aid from the U.S. government have been kicked out of the Dow Jones industrial average.
According to a statement released Monday, General Motors, which filed for bankruptcy on Monday, will be replaced by Cisco Systems ;
Citigroup will be replaced by The Travelers Companies The changes in the Dow will go into effect on on June 8, according to Dow Jones


Good for Cisco, bad for the US tax payers who now own 2 dead cats in a poke.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by An Engineer
a resident of Downtown North
on Jun 1, 2009 at 12:21 pm

"What's good for General Motors is good for the country" - 'Engine' Charlie Wilson (paraphrased), back in the waygone days when GM was still somewhat innovative on its own. Since then, GM has innovated kicking and screaming only when the government (mainly the EPA) made it innovate, which has happened very little since 'rawhide' Ronald Reagan. Hence its dinosaur status. It would seem that "The government is good for General Motors."

For an insider's look at this self-moribunded industry, read John DeLorean's On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by bruce
a resident of Crescent Park
on Jun 1, 2009 at 2:30 pm

There is a lot of clueless ignorance here.

Does anyone know where Toyota came from? It was a Japanese government invention. Toyota tried exporting cars to the US early on the project failed miserably for whatever reason.

Japan supported Toyota for 30 years before it got out of the red, and look at it now - it is the best car company in the world. If anything the US does is going to survive we need to stop thinking the market is going to magically solve everything.

Business in this world is political and nationalistic. Other countries look after their interests and that of their people, but America will just keep writing checks until we are broke I guess.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by bruce
a resident of Crescent Park
on Jun 1, 2009 at 2:37 pm

The electronics division of Nokia lost money for 17 years before it hit the demand for its products.

Alexander Hamilton invented the concept of an infant industry which is the main reason the USA grew to be such a huge industrial powerhouse. We strategically protected our industries to add to the economy.

Now we seem to not be able to shed them fast enough?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Big-Time Reality Check
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 1, 2009 at 3:54 pm

I'll take Gov't Motors over the old Screw-You Motors any day.

And in case you forgot:
ROGER AND ME is a feature-length documentary film chronicling the efforts of the world's largest corporation, General Motors, as it turns its hometown of Flint, Michigan, into a ghost town. In his quest to discover why GM would want to do such a thing, filmmaker Michael Moore, a Flint native, attempts to meet the chairman, Roger Smith, and invite him out for a few beers up in Flint to "talk things over".

But, like a modern-day version of the "Grapes of Wrath," the situation seems hopeless--and the scenes from Flint are startling:

--20,000 people standing in line at one location to collect federal surplus cheese and butter;

--Large sections of the city filled with abandoned homes and boarded up stores, looking more like a war zone than an American town;

--28,000 people who have lost their homes and their life savings and have packed up and headed south in search of work;

--The social cost of 25% unemployment: record rates of suicide, spousal abuse, alcoholism, and, surpassing Miami and Detroit as the city with the highest rate of violent crime.

These are a few of the results of General Motors laying off 40,000 people in Flint in the past nine years. It is expected that GM will eliminate another 10,000 Flint jobs in the next few years. 50% of Flint's GM workforce will have been abolished by 1989, an event of unprecedented proportion in American history.

Yet, since 1983, car sales have steadily risen and GM has posted record profits of nearly $19 billion. So why lay off all of these people? Moore points out that he and his friends were raised on the American Dream which promised that if you worked hard and the company prospered, you would too. Now, it seems, GM has changed the rules: you work hard, the company prospers--and you lose your job.

The film shows that GM has used these profits not to create jobs, but to buy data processing companies (EDS) and weapons manufacturers (Hughes Aircraft), automate their current assembly lines, and build new plants in Mexico and Asia. In addition, GM has bought a controlling interest in Isuzu, entered into a joint operating agreeement with Toyota, and has become the second largest mortgage holder in the United States. Flint, Michigan, it seems, is no longer part of the GM plan.




 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 1, 2009 at 6:44 pm

I was not aware of the limitation of the Volt, the claims were 50-150 mpg
What will the gov subsidy do to companies like Tesla?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Mike
a resident of Crescent Park
on Jun 1, 2009 at 8:10 pm

If Michael Moore 'documentaries' are where you get your facts and information, I guess you do support Government Motors.

Remember, the new owners of GM are the same folks that brought you the DMV and IRS...


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Anonymous
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jun 1, 2009 at 10:40 pm

Do any of you seriously think that Chapter 7 liquidation would have been cheaper for the country? The default on the retirement plans alone would have defaulted the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. It's taken this long just to get to the point where GM and Chrysler would even consider filing for bankruptcy which is where their businesses were clearly headed.

The government bailout of these two auto companies hasn't been pretty but the alternatives were even uglier.



 +   Like this comment
Posted by Reality Check
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 1, 2009 at 10:41 pm

Mike:
"Remember, the new owners of GM are the same folks that brought you the DMV and IRS..."

They're also the same folks that brought you Hoover Dam and the Space Shuttle as well.

On the other hand, the old owners of GM managed to run it off the cliff...


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Outside Observer
a resident of another community
on Jun 1, 2009 at 11:04 pm

Reality Check,

Hoover Dam could never be built today. The Greens would oppose it.

The Space Shuttle is 70's technology. It should have been retired after the challenger disaster. We are 40 years behind on space research, indeed, mankind's greatest space achievement was the Apollo program of the 60's.

The CPU in the computer you have used to post here is an off-shoot of space and military technology development that we used to fund.

Now, under liberals, the only thing we fund is welfare and "social services" whose sole purpose is to generate and retain an underclass that keeps liberals in political power.








 +   Like this comment
Posted by Perspective
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 2, 2009 at 4:02 am

Yes, I seriously believe that going into Chapter 11 would have been a heck of a lot cheaper..it would have been done a lot sooner, and arisen from it a lot faster, and not kept sinking us economically with tax bail outs and psychologically with the constant front page news of "GM failing, needs more from your pocket". It wouldn't have sent the tremendous shock through the entire business world, here and abroad, that our govt is now in the business of nationalizing. Check out the history of every country that starts nationalizing, and what happens to their business/economy from everyone, domestic and international. Those pesky long-term "unseen" consequences of breaking our laws and making exceptions, those darn unintended consequences, are going to linger until Obama and his ruling ideology is gone.

We have paid an immediate and long-term price for this foolishness...GM wanted tax money, it got it..I will not buy a GM car again.



 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 2, 2009 at 8:48 am



David Brooks has a good piece on the dysfunctional culture at GM.Web Link

Read either of them and then ask yourself whether the bureaucracy at GM could be even half as bad as most of the bureaucracies in the federal government,
which have never — ever — been subjected to real competition and all that entails.
If the story of GM's atrophy seems plausible to you, how could the government be immune to the same problems?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by An Engineer
a resident of Downtown North
on Jun 2, 2009 at 9:54 am

"The CPU in the computer you have used to post here is an off-shoot of space and military technology development that we used to fund."

An excellent example of government-incentivized innovation. Thanks.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 2, 2009 at 11:08 am


When the talk turns from how much debt to who owns the debt, everybody knows who we're talking about.
China has earned a national treasure since assuming its role as America's factory floor, and the specific national treasure I'm talking about is what once was America's.
Out of almost $2 trillion in total foreign exchange reserves, China, according to the most recent US Treasury data, holds over $760 billion in official US government securities;
add in government agency bonds and corporates, and well over half of China's reserves are held in US dollar-denominated debt securities.

So there's one way that the financial crisis could end.
Both stocks and the US dollar could suffer such sharp falls that US equities, indeed, the entire US, becomes so cheap that China and the other wealthy sovereign wealth funds (SWF) come in and, like poor Second-Hand Rose, swoop up all the bargains.

US public opinion would rejoice at an injection of liquidity that finally goes a long way towards replacing what the collapse of structured finance took out of it.
Certainly, the happy, carefree, consumption-sodden days of just a few years ago must soon be once again just there for the taking.
The fact that the nation has just sold its birthright and is now renting what took its previous generations over a century to build and own, is of trivial consequence.Web Link


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Looking and Laughing !!!
a resident of another community
on Jun 2, 2009 at 4:40 pm


What could this mean? GM files for bankruptcy and the very next day they say the have a deal to sell the HUMMER product line. And lookie here it is the Chinese. In fact it is no less a company than Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Company. We are being sold down the river.

Sold to people with knowledge and financial expertise they just jumped in and bought what the media claims is a loosing product line. Yet the facts are in disagreement with the assumptions of the so called media experts. Think at what this vehicle line does that a Prius or Tesla can not do. This line of vehicles are sold all over the world.

What do the Chinese know that we are being kept in the dark about?

BOTTOM LINE - Obama and his handlers are ripping off the American Tax Payer to the benefit of someone who does not have the interest of America first.

In the first 100 days....
Hillary Clinton to China
Nancy Pelosi to China
Timothy Geitner to China

Now put the puzzle together lookie at what Timmy the tax cheat's daddy does (Peter F. Geithner)...... Web Link

Is it too late to wake up?




 +   Like this comment
Posted by Paul
a resident of Downtown North
on Jun 2, 2009 at 6:24 pm

"Is it too late to wake up?"

It's 9 years too late. Nine years ago Bush 43 and the Republicans in congress proceeded to dump the balanced budget Clinton left behind, raise government spending, cut taxes for Wall Street CEOs with their many-million-dollar bonuses, and borrow a cool trillion (that's a million times a million, BTW) from Red China to make up the difference.

Ya know, ya gotta be nice to the people you owe a lot of money to.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 2, 2009 at 6:31 pm


Nice try,
Clinton and Gore sold out to China money " there was no controlling authority" as he is raising funds from China for elections from the White House.
Clinton allowed the sale of space tech from Lorrial to China


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter
a resident of another community
on Jun 2, 2009 at 8:52 pm

Sharon, you're wrong about Loral (not Lorrial).


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 2, 2009 at 8:58 pm

peter
thanks, I must of confused it with those cancer sticks I used to smoke as a young idiot.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Bin Ladin dead & General Motors Alive
a resident of East Palo Alto
on Jul 18, 2012 at 12:12 pm

Accountability time.

Bin Ladin's dead and General Motors is alive. If you manage to read the absurdities above without gagging, take a moment to compare it to reality now. GM trades at twenty bucks a share, not at pennies. Thousands of manufacturing jobs saved while at the depth of the Bush/Cheney recession, their recession that had America losing jobs at 800,000 per month, only 4 moths before Sharon started this thread.

Consider these statements below, from the posters who think Romney reimplementing Bush/Cheney policies are a good idea, a perfecct recipe for sliding into a depression.


** Sharon:
- "One of the brokerage houses said Friday that the expected trading range for GM common was $0.01."
- "Our guess is that he'll (Obama) come to regret it as much as taxpayers will".
- " The only way for GM and Chrysler to succeed, for awhile longer, will be for the government to substantially reduce competition from foreign brands and tax gas to the point that Ford's profitabile reliance on trucks and SUV sales drives it, too, into bankruptcy. Anyone want to bet against that eventually happening?"
- " bad for the US tax payers who now own 2 dead cats in a poke."

** Outside Observer:

- "Ultimately, I think government control of GM will prove to be the single most important factor in the renunciation of socialism that will happen in the 2012 elections."

** Walter Wallis:
- "I pity the family of 4 who vacation in their 2012 Pelosi."


** Perspective:
- "How many people are going to bother investing in the car companies now?"
- "I seriously believe that going into Chapter 11 would have been a heck of a lot cheaper..it would have been done a lot sooner, and arisen from it a lot faster, and not kept sinking us economically with tax bail outs and psychologically with the constant front page news of "GM failing, needs more from your pocket"."


To see just how stupid those statements were, click here for current stock price Web Link

Sharon: "I must of confused it with those cancer sticks I used to smoke as a young idiot."

Noted.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by greatists hits
a resident of Barron Park
on Jul 18, 2012 at 1:58 pm

Nicely done. A greatist "miss" collection of foolish statements. Great work!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Strawberry Fields
a resident of Los Altos
on Jul 19, 2012 at 10:42 am

Nothing unexpected, as you can look at any thread from a few years ago and see those posters and pick out a Greatist Miss list pretty easily -- they provide a lot of ammunition! Good work though -- a nice compilation.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 19, 2012 at 11:18 am


US taxpayer paid for the $50 billion bailout of General Motors (GM).

The President is running in large part on the bailout's $30+ billion loss, uber-failed "success."

An epitome of this bailout nightmare mess is the electric absurdity that is the Chevrolet Volt.

Add $240 million in Energy Department grants doled out to G.M. last summer,

$150 million in federal money to the Volt's Korean battery supplier,

up to $1.5 billion in tax breaks for purchasers and other consumer incentives,
and some significant portion of the $14 billion loan G.M. got in 2008 for "retooling" its plants, and you've got some idea of how much taxpayer cash is built into every Volt.
Web Link

Speaking of those "tax breaks for purchasers and other consumer
incentives" -

as of November of last year that tally all by itself was $250,000 per Volt sold.

$250,000 in taxpayer subsidy for every Volt sold.

Keep all of this outrageousness in mind when next the Jurassic Press joins with the Obama Administration in celebrating the Chevy Volt/Lemon


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Strawberry Fields
a resident of Los Altos
on Jul 19, 2012 at 11:39 am

Whoa boy! Sharon, of "bad for the US tax payers who now own 2 dead cats in a poke" fame, falls back on a 2 year old blogger post in the nyt about the Volt being a lemon by a guy named Niedermeyer. Since Neidermeyer scribed his unsubstantiated diatribe, the Volt has won numerous car of the year awards.

Hooooooo-wheeeeee! That's a stretch, Sharon!

Care to defend the statemenets the poster above called you on?

"** Sharon: - "One of the brokerage houses said Friday that the expected trading range for GM common was $0.01."

- "Our guess is that he'll (Obama) come to regret it as much as taxpayers will".

- " The only way for GM and Chrysler to succeed, for awhile longer, will be for the government to substantially reduce competition from foreign brands and tax gas to the point that Ford's profitabile reliance on trucks and SUV sales drives it, too, into bankruptcy. Anyone want to bet against that eventually happening?"

- " bad for the US tax payers who now own 2 dead cats in a poke.""


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Angus Burnside
a resident of Esther Clark Park
on Jul 19, 2012 at 1:44 pm

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 19, 2012 at 7:27 pm


The Chevy Cruze is basically a Volt without the dead-weight, flammable 400-lb. electric battery.

Which makes it $17,000, rather than the Volt's $41,000.

Chevy in June sold 18,983 Cruzes - more than ten times the number of Volts.

And that's down 1/3 from last June's 24,648.

But that feeble Volt tally has the Press all revved up.

And speaking of the Volt's ridiculous $41,000 sticker price:

According to multiple GM executives there is little or no profit being made on each Volt built at a present cost of around $40,000. Furthermore, the $700 million of development that went into the car has to be recouped.

Web Link

Get that? GM makes "little or no profit" on the Volt.

So it makes perfect sense that GM would spend millions of dollars advertising it, does it not? No ideological or campaign intent there, eh President Obama?

Look, I get it, it's fun. I just spent $1 million - of your money - advertising free air.

On which my profit margin is just as good as GM's is on the Volt.

Zero


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Outside Observer
a resident of another community
on Jul 19, 2012 at 7:57 pm

Edsel Ford must be smiling in heaven now. It took 50 years, but finally an American car manufacturer has taken the stigma from his name for the failed Edsel model of the late 50's.

The Chevy Volt has that title now.

Suggestion to Volt owners (though I have never seen one in Palo Alto):

Put your Volt in mothballs. You may be able to sell it to a car museum in 50 years.




 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon's bankruptcy
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Jul 19, 2012 at 8:03 pm

Sharon - you need to learn to read source material: "General Motors Co. executives call the new-for-'11 Chevrolet Volt a key first step in the electrification of all its products, while also confirming long-held assumptions the car will not make money in the first years of production."

Which matches up with the same strategy Toyota used on their innovations, like Prius. I love the post above that lists some of your outlandish statements:

** Sharon: - "One of the brokerage houses said Friday that the expected trading range for GM common was $0.01."

- "Our guess is that he'll (Obama) come to regret it as much as taxpayers will".

- "The only way for GM and Chrysler to succeed, for awhile longer, will be for the government to substantially reduce competition from foreign brands and tax gas to the point that Ford's profitabile reliance on trucks and SUV sales drives it, too, into bankruptcy. Anyone want to bet against that eventually happening?"

- "bad for the US tax payers who now own 2 dead cats in a poke."

Care to comment on them, since you've already made enough strange accusations about the volt?

How much DID you bet on Ford's going bankrupt? Hopefully not enough to make you bankrupt!

;-)

Here, chew on this one for awhile: "General Motors made a record $7.6 billion in 2011, driven by a $7.2-billion profit in North America that ensures its highest profit-sharing payments of $7,000 each to the typical U.S. workers."


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 19, 2012 at 9:07 pm



Ford refused a taxpayer bail-out

GM took a massive taxpayer bail-out--US taxpayers subsidies for the Chevy Volt are thus far $3 billion.

Thusly, $250,000 per.

The future of transportation for the US is natural gas powered, trucks, buses and cars--we have enough natural gas reserves to fuel our energy needs for 175yrs at present proven reserves.

And in bad joke harmonic convergence, GM spent $3 million to install solar panels at a (non-profit) Volt manufacturing plant – in order to save $15,000 a year in electricity.

It'll take GM 200 years to break even on these solar panels.

Except they won't, because in 20-25 years they'll have to replace them all, which means they'll save–at most–$375,000, before spending another $3 million (plus inflation) to start the inanity all over again.

And if you haven't yet had enough GM solar, and you liked Solyndra, and Beacon Power, and Ener1, andů

Instead of following Toyota's model, G.M. decided to make the Volt more affordable by offering a $350-a-month lease over 36 months.

But that offer allows only 12,000 miles per year, or about 33 miles per day.

Assuming you charged your Volt every evening, giving you 40 miles of battery power, and wanted to keep below the mileage limit, you would rarely use its expensive range-extending gas engine.

The only people buying the Volt/Lemon is the US Gov--who pays for them-

The US taxpayer

What a big fail


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon's bankruptcy
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Jul 19, 2012 at 9:26 pm

Sharon: you're directly copying and pasting utter rubbish from Breitbart's site.

LOOK AT THE SOURCES!!!!!!! It's Brietbart, for gods-sake!

GM is letting DTE put up a $3 million solar array, and it saves GM $15k a year - it doesn't cost GM the $3 million - DTE is putting it up!! Your weird interpretation of facts that has you imagining that GM invested $3m to make $15k a year is stupidity beyond imagination.

GM doesn't need 30 years, or even a single year to "breakeven" as you and Breitbart say - they save $15k a year, just like I do with my solar (on a much, much smaller scale, of course.)

So, so, so silly.

Needless to say, if you're getting any numbers from brietbart, then they're all suspect. All your Volt numbers, all your GM loan numbers, all rubbish without substnatiation.

Sharon: You make absurd claims. You get called on them, and you still ignore them. Do you think anyone takes your claims seriously, anymore?

Your numbers are wrong. Your predictions are at best - a dartboard.

You predicted Ford would be bankrupt and GM would need more money.

"General Motors made a record $7.6 billion in 2011, driven by a $7.2-billion profit in North America that ensures its highest profit-sharing payments of $7,000 each to the typical U.S. workers."




 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon's bankruptcy
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Jul 19, 2012 at 9:32 pm

Here's the article that neither Sharon nor Breitbart can interpret correctly:

Web Link

"A $3 million solar energy installation to help power General Motors Co.'s Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant was formally announced Wednesday by GM and DTE Energy Co.

The project is expected to be the largest photovoltaic solar array in Southeast Michigan and generate 516 kilowatts of electricity at the plant, home to the Chevrolet Volt electric car.

The array will be built on six acres on the south side of the plant and is expected to save the plant about $15,000 annually, under a 20-year agreement."

Basically, GM is leasing roof space for 20 years at $15k a month - a good business decision.

The power generated is going directly into the building - near zero transmission loss - a great environmental decision.

Good stuff.

Just ignore Sharon, or at the least, read her claims and expect the opposite to be true.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jul 19, 2012 at 9:37 pm



We never predicted that Ford would be bankrupt-

Ford refused a taxpayer bail-out and fixed its problems in the American Way-hard work
Who is " Breitbart" ?

We take our facts from the WSJ, IBD and The Economist

BTW -we use WE because both my husband and I contribute to this blog-

US taxpayers pay $250,000 for each Lemon/Volt-which no one is buying apart from the Federal Govt-guess who pays for those

The US taxpayer--us


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Sharon's bankruptcy
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Jul 19, 2012 at 9:59 pm

Sharon's line from above, 40 minutes ago: "And in bad joke harmonic convergence, GM spent $3 million to install solar panels at a (non-profit) Volt manufacturing plant – in order to save $15,000 a year in electricity."

Brietbart, on May 20: "And in bad joke harmonic convergence, GM spent $3 million to install solar panels at a (non-profit) Volt manufacturing plant - in order to save $15,000 a year in electricity."

Web Link

Sharon's comment above, after she's busted, but before she understands she's busted: "Who is " Breitbart" ? We take our facts from the WSJ, IBD and The Economist"

A direct copy and paste from Breitbart or some other part of the echo chamber. Looks like the fringies have copied it and used it about 1,900 times. Not much for the echo chamber, but clearly not something Sharon got out of the economist, unless some fringie posted it there as a comment.

Sad.

No understanding. No original thought. No intellectual curiosity. No remedial investigation of the $3 million investment. No respect for the truth. No respect for the reader.

So very, very sad.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Barry
a resident of Barron Park
on Jul 20, 2012 at 9:18 am

Sharon got caught, and after a "who me?" moment, disappears.

Just before that , Sharon claimed: "We never predicted that Ford would be bankrupt"

Uh-huh. Except you did....

Posted by Sharon, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on May 31, 2009 at 11:55 pm "The only way for GM and Chrysler to succeed, for awhile longer, will be for the government to substantially reduce competition from foreign brands and tax gas to the point that Ford's profitabile reliance on trucks and SUV sales drives it, too, into bankruptcy."

"Sharon's bankrupt" did a great job at exposing Sharon. And Sharon keeps stepping in it, to the point of claiming she didn't write something on the very same web page.

Wow!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Barry
a resident of Barron Park
on Jul 20, 2012 at 9:21 am

Let's not let Outside Observer off the hook, since he/she stuck up his/her head with the Edsel comment.

OO from earlier:

"** Outside Observer: - "Ultimately, I think government control of GM will prove to be the single most important factor in the renunciation of socialism that will happen in the 2012 elections."

Good call, Outside Observer!

Not. Anyone heard Mitt talk about this one?

Other than defend his flipflopping on the issue?

Granted, Mitt has a LOT of practice at defending his flipflops!



 +   Like this comment
Posted by Outside Observer
a resident of another community
on Jul 20, 2012 at 10:18 am

@Barry,

Yes, I stand corrected. When I said that, back in 2009, the GM takeover was the most egregious socialist act Obama had done to date.

That was before Obamacare.

Please replace "GM" with "Health Care" to update my 2009 statement.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Barry
a resident of Barron Park
on Jul 20, 2012 at 10:35 am

OO: Noted. Will do. Thanks.

One finds it interesting that a healthcare solution that depends on free market, for profit insurance companies, created by the ultra conservative Heritage Foundation, supported by Newt Gingrich, implemented by Mitt Romney himself, is suddenly, OMIGAWD! the horrors! why, it's SOCIALISM!

Interesting substitution by you, as the Affordable Care Act is another area that Romney has flipflopped on as well.

Actually, sort of a flip-flop-flip-flop, but who's counting?

Certainly not the people he hopes will vote for him.

Just curious, before you became a Romney "fan", did you also refer to it as ObamaRomneyCare, along with Pawlenty and the other Republican candidates?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Stop the waste in Palo alto
a resident of Palo Verde
on Jul 21, 2012 at 10:39 am

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Perspective
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Jul 28, 2012 at 5:44 am

Web Link

Subprime loans for GM cars. Setting up "foreclosures" on cars is not the way to show progress. Same problem we had with subprimes for houses. It is a set-up for defaults. Again, backed by US, the taxpayers, since WE bailed them out.

Yikes.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by the Haters cannot give up
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Jul 28, 2012 at 11:29 am

Is this the same Perspective that a couple years ago said:

"- "How many people are going to bother investing in the car companies now?"

- "I seriously believe that going into Chapter 11 would have been a heck of a lot cheaper..it would have been done a lot sooner, and arisen from it a lot faster, and not kept sinking us economically with tax bail outs and psychologically with the constant front page news of "GM failing, needs more from your pocket"."

Are you referring to this GM?

"General Motors earned a record $7.6 billion profit last year, the highest profit in the company's 103-year history. It sold 640,000 more cars and trucks in 2011 than it did in 2010 and took in a total of $105 billion."

May God bless the President for taking actions to curb the terrible recession. May he get assistance after the election from the republican footdraggers and be able to get our economy moving again and create more jobs.


Don't miss out on the discussion!
Sign up to be notified of new comments on this topic.

Email:


Post a comment

Posting an item on Town Square is simple and requires no registration. Just complete this form and hit "submit" and your topic will appear online. Please be respectful and truthful in your postings so Town Square will continue to be a thoughtful gathering place for sharing community information and opinion. All postings are subject to our TERMS OF USE, and may be deleted if deemed inappropriate by our staff.

We prefer that you use your real name, but you may use any "member" name you wish.

Name: *

Select your neighborhood or school community: * Not sure?

Comment: *

Verification code: *
Enter the verification code exactly as shown, using capital and lowercase letters, in the multi-colored box.

*Required Fields

Cho's, beloved dim sum spot, to reopen in Los Altos
By Elena Kadvany | 8 comments | 6,047 views

Why I Became Active in Palo Alto Forward
By Steve Levy | 12 comments | 2,355 views

Early Decision Blues
By John Raftrey and Lori McCormick | 0 comments | 2,017 views

First Interview
By Sally Torbey | 10 comments | 1,177 views

Death with Dignity
By Chandrama Anderson | 2 comments | 1,157 views