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Original post made
by Mike, College Terrace,
on May 8, 2008
Fools who consider works of man objectional or who believe "nature" would be idealic and unchangable except for man's "intrusion" are seriously autoallergic. Perhaps their self hatred is deserved.
Mr. Wallis. I think you're looking at it from a black or white view. Unless resources are conserved on at least on a zero sum basis, our descendants will inherit a very crowded, uncomfortable world.
Consider India and China where living for most is difficult with meager resources and opportunities. Even the Chinese government recognized that unlimited population growth is unsustainable and have tried to restrict births.
On its present path China can continue its economic growth by consuming more oil and coal and fouling the environment. I'll be interested to read the reports of the athletes after they compete in smoggy Beijing.
I've read that the deforestation of the Indian hills for cooking fires has led to devastating floods and erosion. Wonderful for fertilizing the deltas - until a tsunami hits.
In short unbridled growth will lead to an unlivable planet. Balancing economic growth with conservation is the only wise course.
First - nothing man can do to the earth will come within orders of magnitude of the natural forces over which we have no control - sunlight, gravitational forces and interstellar radiation. We have always had the capability of fouling our own nests, but we also had the intellect to recognize when to move off the miden or to husband our land.
Population does not grow by geometric progression, and the arbitrary population limits of Red China may well have denied them the brains and wombs they will need to sustain their existence. Ask Ehrlich if you won't take my word. The deforestation of India would not be needed if India acknowledged the value of women in the labor force enough to replace the collection of dry dung and twigs with 1500 watts per household. Just you high thinkers stay out of the way and let us Sons of Martha keep you afloat.
"Just you high thinkers stay out of the way and let us Sons of Martha keep you afloat."
An anchor cannot keep anything afloat.
Paul, an anchor can hold a ship off the rocks. Consider me your anchor to the real world.
To quote Walter: "the arbitrary population limits of Red China may well have denied them the brains and wombs they will need to sustain their existence"
The key word here is "arbitrary", and yes China's attempts will ultimately fail as "arbitrary" in this context is synonymous with entropy.
A proper breeding policy?, well, I can put it in terms any American can understand. To breed you must pass the same criteria that is required to adopt a dog from the pound....
If the USA (or any country/culture) would adopt a simple breeding policy that you must be able to provide for the proper care and feeding of a child, as is required for a "pound" dog, the population would be reduced by 2/3. All social problems would evaporate in a generation, and the technical/social/economic advances would be something unequaled in Human history.
Mr. Wallis. Please read an article in today's, May 9, SF Chronicle, Section A, page A25. It is titled India Faces Crisis As Groundwater Is Used Up. Farmers dig deeper and deeper wells as the water table drops. One day the aquifer will be gone. And one of the reasons is cheap electrical power improperly used!
Yes, man can affect his environment positively but often does not have the political will to stop "fouling his own nest". In this case the depletion of groundwater is "sitting there like a time bomb".
It may be too late to save the trees which hold the soil. In many areas villagers walk miles to find a few twigs let alone a tree. It will be one or more generations before India provides 1500 watts of electricity so rural people won't have to use wood to stoke the stoves.
India and China are the real world and they are in trouble. Anchors won't keep them off the rocks if their water supplies fail.
Q not Q, are you absolutely certain that you could select those genes and traits needed for racial survival? Are you prepared to put yourself forward as the AKC of manking, deciding who is worthy? We have had a few like you in history.
Pete, [the depletion of groundwater is "sitting there like a time bomb".] groundwater reserves are a depletable resorce. Because they are finite, we should not use them? That is as brilliant as suggesting that you should never take any beer out of the refrigerator because when it is gone it is gone. If genetic engineering were released from the Frankenfood restrictions of the Luddite Malthuseans, food production could go forward with only half the water.
I have to agree with Q not Q on principal..if we simply returned to a social standard that you must be married before having children, and parents are the only ones responsible for feeding, housing and clothing their kids ( not money from taxpayers), that alone would eradicate about 93% of our social problems.
I assume this from the data that show about 93% of all kids living in poverty, and teens in jails for violent crimes, come from "single parent" homes ( code words for "moms only" homes).
How to do that?
That is the problem. Simple solution: No more welfare to girls/women having babies. Anyone who can't care for their own kids either gives them up for adoption, or goes into a group home type place where all monies are managed by the home manager to assure food, clothing etc are paid, the women finish schooling, the babies are raised between the moms and real adults who teach the moms how to discipline their kids and raise them to have an education. The women are on strict control of their "social life", given that they are going to school and/or working and/or caring for their child, they have to learn what life is really like for a responsible parent. They are on every 3 month shots to prevent further pregnancies, and if they refuse the shots, they have to leave the home and the child put up for adoption.
The women can only leave with their child after they are done with schooling and have a job which can pay for them and their child's rent and food, or they marry and they and their husband show the ability to care for the child..no welfare.
Guarantee absolutely that once such a program is instituted, the number of babies born to unwed mothers will drop 90%. Teens will no longer have babies in order to "make money" or escape their lives.
The saddest part of this "conservation" victory is who is paying for it.
It is a little known fact that the land owners are the ones who are extorted to "give" land for preservation. This doesn't say how much land there was total in this deal, but I won't be shocked if 75% of the total land has been appropriated for preservation..with not one penny of compensation by any of the conservation groups or tax monies for the land that can not now be developed.
For those of you who complain that "big developers" are the only ones who "profit" from these things, rememeber this. "Big developers" are the only ones with enough cash flow to be able to buy land, and then sit on it for literally years while paying attorneys and staff to go through the extortion process to get to the point of even getting permission to build their first home.
Why don't people consider BUYING the land for conservation when it goes up for sale, or at least BUYING the land from the developers for the price the developers paid, once it is decided how much land should be conserved?
Oh, and the more land conserved, the less available for housing, the higher the prices, the less affordable housing there is. The harder it is for builders to build, the fewer take the risk to build, the fewer homes there are, the more the demand, the higher the prices, the less affordable housing.
Not saying don't conserve, just saying, remember the consequences and don't complain about them when they happen.
Common sense and extortion, I love both of you. [Is that allowed?]
Walter and Common Sense,
There is an old bumper sticker:
"Make Welfare as hard to get as a Building Permit".....
Common sense, your after-the-fact remediation would work as would my proactive approach, but the bottom line..... Neither will happen as long as liberals run the country and intentionally create a dependent class that (illegitimately) votes and derives it's lively hood from "progressive" taxes extorted from successful citizens.
Walter, I'm not a Nazi... Probably the farthest thing from it. I am a 3rd generation native born American, but with family in 3rd world Asia. Years ago my tax dollars were used to deny my adoption of an orphaned child niece from Asia..... While at the same time liberals open the gates to the millions that Mexico doesn't want..... There's room for the 21st century Mexican slaves, but no room for the orphaned niece of a 3rd generation American....
Walter, you fought in Korea, and patriots like myself are very grateful for your service....
And as your service was in Asia, I know you have some insight to the common threads in most all Asian cultures..... Love of education being foremost, and you've made comments about that on other "Town Square" postings lately, only to be labeled a "racist" by some, while at the same time acknowledging that your "take" is correct.
My proposition is not Nazi "eugenics". It is a reaction to liberal social manipulation for the sole purpose to keep liberals in political power.
Q not Q..ok, see where you are coming from and understand it better.
Get it, and my deep sorrows for your adoption grief.
Agree with the whole take on illegals...liberals call it "kindness" or whatever they want to call it, but it is not kindness which continues to allow a second class of people be exploited by businesses ( which is why businesses fight shutting down the borders, forcing taxes to pay for what businesses won't.
I love your "make welfare as hard to get as a building permit"..absolutley love it. How about "make having babies as hard to do as adoption"...Same intent. Our regulatory priorities are totally screwed up in this nation.
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