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Peace rally draws hundreds to Palo Alto

Original post made on Mar 15, 2008

About 200 people gathered on a windy, chilly Saturday afternoon at King Plaza in downtown Palo Alto to mark the fifth anniversary of the beginning of the war in Iraq.

Read the full story here Web Link posted Saturday, March 15, 2008, 2:49 PM

Comments (60)

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Posted by Tim
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 15, 2008 at 4:38 pm

The crowd was not big because people konw we there for many more years. It's sad but it's the way it is.


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 15, 2008 at 4:44 pm

The crowd was not big because they all went to Tehran or Gaza where the wars come from.


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Posted by Marvin
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Mar 15, 2008 at 4:49 pm

I see there was the usual Israel bashing that tends to accompany events of this nature (see pictures with story)--not unexpected considering that PPJC was probably behind this event.
Not surprised either that Don Kazak did not report on that aspect (i.e. what does the war in Iraq have to do with Israel).


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Posted by Gary
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 15, 2008 at 4:56 pm

Tim,

It's not sad at all. It just shows that the Grannies are not winning hearts and minds. If defeat is not snatched from the jaws of victory, the liberation of Iraq will be seen as a victory for international morality. The Grannies are immoral. So are the various liberal church folk.

Iraq is the crucible of today's fight for the current liberation of the human condition. If it goes south, like the Grannies hope, there will be incredible suffering. They can rage all they want, but they will (I guarantee) become quite silent when the slaughter happens, if they get their way. Why? Becasue they are shameless socialists that actually approve of the Stalinist model, like Saddam.


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Posted by Take It Elsewhere
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 15, 2008 at 5:20 pm

> PPJC was probably behind this event.

Their name was on the announcement for this event.

Wonder if they had any request of Al Qaeda to stop the killing? Or were their harangues only against the US?


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Posted by Gary
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 15, 2008 at 5:25 pm

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Gary
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 15, 2008 at 6:34 pm

"Not surprised either that Don Kazak did not report on that aspect"

Marvin,

My previous post was deleted, so let me just ask why you are not surprised?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Marvin
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Mar 15, 2008 at 6:50 pm

IMHO:

1) Kazak writes pieces that are very sympathetic to PPJC and their associates (go to archives and look up his piece on Joel Beinin)

2) PPJC never misses an opportunity to bash Israel and portray Hamas/Hezbollah as innocent martyrs

3) Joel Beinin, during his time here (he is on sabbatical in Egypt now), was very active with PPJC

Put all that together and I think you can understand why I made the statement I made.


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Posted by Gary
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 15, 2008 at 6:58 pm

Marvin,

Although I agree with your points, I think it runs deeper than that.

Can you think of other examples, where Kazak was over the line?


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Posted by Nancy
a resident of another community
on Mar 15, 2008 at 7:27 pm

As a 12-year resident of Midtown who moved away 4 years ago, I commend those who rallied to protest the war in Iraq.

Many of us knew five years ago that it was wrong to invade Iraq. We knew that Saddam Hussein had no links to 9/11 (15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, none from Iraq). Saddam was a ruthless tin pot dictator with visions of taking over neighboring countries, but his regime was secular and had no use for Al Qaeda. Like the rest of the world, and about half of Americans, we wanted to let the UN inspectors do their work instead of stopping them prematurely so that we could invade (and recall that the US spent a lot longer looking for Weapons of Mass Destruction – WMD - post-invasion than we allowed the UN to spend pre-invasion, only to conclude that there were no WMD).

The U.S. had never pre-emptively stared a war and we knew it was wrong. We knew the intelligence was faulty, the excuses for going to war were exaggerated, that key generals such as Eric Shinseki were drummed out of the military for stating truthfully that more troops were needed, and that there was little or no post war planning.

Our brave troops deserve better. They have done all that we asked for them and more. It is time to bring them home safely. The Baker-Hamilton report called for regional diplomacy to get the other Arab nations involved in developing a regional solution. America can't do this alone. We need to get the rest of the region involved to support the new and very fragile Iraqi government in their back yard.


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Posted by Joan
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 15, 2008 at 7:37 pm

I was there, and I didn't hear any Israel-bashing. It sounds like you're eager to generalize about the event, based on one sign that appeared in one photo, Marvin, even though you know little about it. The consensus was generally that this war (occupation?) should never have taken place and hasn't accomplished anything positive. In the process, many lives have been lost or affected forever (wounds, stress disorders, psychological problems, etc.). Billions of dollars have been spent on destruction; that money could have been put to better use. Finally, many new enemies have been made, which may put our lives and our children's lives in peril in the future, and our government has lost respect in the world. Fortunately, according to the polls, more and more Americans are beginning to agree with us.


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Posted by Marvin
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Mar 15, 2008 at 8:02 pm

Joan--are you sure that I wasn't there? Are you sure that there was only one sign like the one in the picture?
I will not disagree with some of your comments regarding the war. Of course at an anti-war rally, one can assume that the consensus will be as you describedm so that really proves nothing.
However, my point is what does this have to do with Israel?
As I have stated before, PPJC, one of the organizers of the rally, never misses an opportunity to bash Israel and is synpathetic to terrorist organizations (Hamas/Hezbollah for example) that seek to destroy Israel.
You and the other protesters exercised your rights today to express your opinion on the war. i am currently exercising my right to offer my opinion on the rally and the coverage of it by a PA Weekly reporter.


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Posted by Gary
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 15, 2008 at 8:11 pm

"The U.S. had never pre-emptively stared a war"

Nancy, where did you come up with that one? The Spanish-American War was preemptive by the U.S. We attacked Cuba and the Phillipines. Wilson took us into WWI, even though we were not attacked by Germany. FDR did the same thing in WWII. We also attacked Grenada and Panama (don't forget Nicaragua in the 30s). Oh, there is that little business of bombing Yugoslavia. Don't forget that the North attacked the South at Bull Run, to start the Civil War (the South was quite content to negotiate a peaceful secession). The U.S. preeemptively started several wars against the indigenous people of this continent.

The important thing is not preemption, but worthiness of cause.


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Posted by The Yanks Are Coming
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 16, 2008 at 6:34 am

> Wilson took us into WWI, even though we
> were not attacked by Germany.

A couple of points here .. WWII had been on-going for almost three years before the US got involved. So--the US did not "pre-emptively" start a war with Germany.

and

the RMS Lusitania (a British Oceanliner) was torpedoed and sunk with American lives lost. This was the tipping point for Wilson, and the US entered the war on the side of the British and French.

The "War to End All Wars" (or "The Great War") came to an end about shortly after the US forces began to engage the Germans.

The application of US military force brought an end to the most destructive war fought up until that time. The idea that the US "pre-emptively" attached Germany, as alleged in the posting, is ridiculous.


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Posted by 4:30 AM/April 12, 1861
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 16, 2008 at 6:37 am

> the North attacked the South at Bull Run, to start
> the Civil War (the South was quite content to
> negotiate a peaceful secession).

And how do you spell "Ft. Sumter"?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by JackAss
a resident of Barron Park
on Mar 16, 2008 at 8:28 am

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Gary
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 16, 2008 at 10:10 am

Fort Sumnter: After the Confederacy was formed, they tried to negotiate a peacful resolution with the Northern States and Linclon. As a sovereign country (as the Confederacy saw itself), it wanted foreigh forces out of its territoty. Lincoln refused, and manipulated the situation, in order to make the CSA make the first shot. This would be an important propaganda tool to prevent other states from joining the CSA. Linclon then invaded the CSA near Manassas, VA. The CSA did not invade the north until it had already been invaded.

Linclon was a great president, becasue he decided that preservation of the Union needed to be established, indeed that secession was not permissible. He also wanted to stop the expansion of slavery. He started the war, and he ended it.


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 16, 2008 at 10:18 am

I understand there was a movement to provide for the compensation of slave owners for freeing their slaves, but this was defeated because of the desire to punish the owners.


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Posted by 4:30 AM/April 12, 1861
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 16, 2008 at 11:11 am

> the North attacked the South at Bull Run, to start
> the Civil War (the South was quite content to

> Linclon then invaded the CSA near Manassas, VA.

Sorry pal, but your post states "to start" .. Sumter (and actually the Secession) "started" the so-called war, not Bull Run.

As it turned out, this was not really a "war" in that the North never recognized the South as an Independent Country (although they had to for a number of reasons). "War" is something that one country does to another. In this case, the South was "rebelling", "insurrecting" or just "walking away". A Country can not "make war" on itself. It has to deal with internal/domestic instability with the military, but can not by definition "make war" on itself.

By the way, did Congress ever declare "War" on the Confederate States of America? (Remember, only Congress can declare War--by definition.)


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Carol Brouillet
a resident of Barron Park
on Mar 16, 2008 at 11:55 am

The weather forecast yesterday was rather bleak, cold and wet, which I think is part of the reason that the turnout was not enormous, but there were also major actions in Washington DC- Winter Soldier hearings were taking place, powerful testimonies by those who participated and witnessed the horrors of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. The war in Vietnam stopped when the soldiers refused to fight, and undoubtedly that is what will stop the current wars. There was also a direct actipon against the war in Richmond where Chevron is located. People are beginning to realize that certain industries and people are profiting enormously from war while others pay terribly.

There was also a small Impeachment March from 11 am to noon arriving at the Peace Rally. The marches draw more people than just rallies, because people want to express themselves and don't necessarily want to listen to speeches. There is a big effort now to pressure Congress to flood the House of Representatives with Impeachment Resolutions, to begin Impeachment Hearings, to pressure Bush and Cheney to resign. People are afraid that they might stage another false-flag operation to expand the war into Iran, plunge the country into Martial Law, do away with what remains of our civil rights.

The administration ignores the rulings of the Supreme Court, the Constitution, International Law and has been behaving in a criminal manner since they stole the eelection in 2000.

Tuesday March 18th, a convoy of activists will be meeting with our Congressional representatives to push them to support and introduce Impeachment Resolutions. People can help by contacting ther representatives, or showing support outside Eshoo's office at 2 pm, or at the rally in Lytton Plaza between 3:30 and 5 pm. Citizens must take responsibility to rein in a criminal government, if they truly love and care about their families, future, the country, the world.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by No Room For Traitors
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 16, 2008 at 1:19 pm

> Winter Soldier hearings were taking place, powerful testimonies
> by those who participated and witnessed the horrors of the
> war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Remembering the "Winter Soldier" hearings of the Vietnam Era -- those were fabrications and lies by men who were later proven to have never even been in the US Army, much less Vietnam.

Cowards, cowards and more cowards ..

You can only tell so many lies before people know you for who you are!
\


 +   Like this comment
Posted by What's The Weather Got To Do With It?
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 16, 2008 at 2:15 pm

> The weather forecast yesterday was rather
> bleak, cold and wet

Pleezzeee .. it was a little chilly, off-and-on overcast and sunny. There was a slight wind .. otherwise a typical March morning.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by julie
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 16, 2008 at 2:54 pm



very small turnout and most of those were old people nostalgic for the 60s, there is clearly no market for this kind of thing any more.

The Israel lobby has enormous influence on US policy in mid east and anyone who questions it is immediately called an anti semite and a shoah

proponent



 +   Like this comment
Posted by marvin
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Mar 16, 2008 at 3:05 pm

Julie-- do not believe everything ppjc tells you. Israel has nothing to do with wAr in Iraq.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by julie
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 16, 2008 at 3:11 pm



I believe what Obamas adviser tell me about power of the israel lobby on the disaster of US policy in the mideast.

We should follow our own interest there not the interests of countries that spy on us-- remember pollard ? see Web Link he is still in prison where he belongs for life




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Posted by marvin
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Mar 16, 2008 at 6:06 pm

julie-- do not believe everything ppjc tells you. Provide some links regarding obama's advisers and Israel.
do you really think that the US does not spy on it's allies? Or did ppjc tell you that only Israel spies on the US. Pollard is old news.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Reed
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 17, 2008 at 1:17 am

"Israel has nothing to do with wAr in Iraq."

Marvin, Saddam was very outspoken in his speeches that he wanted to be the Arab saviour to the Palestinians. His long term objective was to "free Palestine."

So it is not a huge coincidence that many pro-Israeli hawks from the US, i.e, William Kristol, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Christian Zionist groups, etc. were very pro toppling Saddam. It's also no coincidence that Israel was the only country in the region, and one of the only countries in the world that supported the invasion.

To say Israel had nothing to do with the Iraq war is dishonest, and is probably a argumentive tactic to shield any anger people may have towards pro-Israeli Americans.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by a
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Mar 17, 2008 at 6:30 am

With the resignation of Wiliam Fallon, people need to start taking to the streets. I only wish I had known about this rally earlier to attend. Good for the Weekly for reporting it!

Fallon's resignation - Web Link

I only hope that the U.S. does not go to war with Iran, because that will mean the final death knell to democracy in the U.S. and the reign of martial law.


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Posted by Marvin
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Mar 17, 2008 at 6:31 am

Reed--Israel has nothing to do with Iraq. Saddam said many things. How people interpreted them is not Israel's problem. Maybe none of the countries in the region openly supported the war, but many were thrilled that Saddam was toppled (I think people know the reasons they could not say anything).
Why should their be anger towards pro-Israel Americans? Unless people are looking for a scapegoat for the reason thatthe US is in Iraq.
Do not believe everything PPJC tells you


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Posted by Can Democracy Survive Lunacy?
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 17, 2008 at 7:16 am

> I only hope that the U.S. does not go to war with
> Iran, because that will mean the final death knell
> to democracy in the U.S

What utter lunacy.

"Democracy" took quite a hit under the Lincoln Administration, in the 1860. Arbitrary arrests, the closure of newspapers and the suspension of "habeas corpus" .. yet, the Republic survived .. once Lincoln was gone and his war was over.



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Posted by a
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Mar 17, 2008 at 8:28 am

Can Democracy Survive Lunacy?
And I take it you'd enjoy living under martial law?


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Posted by Can Democracy Survive Lunacy?
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 17, 2008 at 8:50 am

> And I take it you'd enjoy living under martial law?

There is not going to be martial law because you say so!

Actually .. martial law is far more desirable than living in a place where the lunatics are in charge of the asylum.


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Posted by a
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Mar 17, 2008 at 8:54 am

George Bush, aka "our dear leader," is a lunatic. Web Link. Your suggestion that martial law would be better is sheer lunacy. I sincerely hope America never has to go through another war where millions die. I like my freedoms and do not want to live in a police state.


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Posted by Can Democracy Survive Lunacy?,
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 17, 2008 at 9:07 am

> George Bush, aka "our dear leader," is a lunatic.

Sorry buddy, but if you are looking to spy a "lunatic" .. why not look in the mirror?

There is not going to be any martial law because "voices" in your head keep telling you so.


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Posted by a
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Mar 17, 2008 at 9:14 am

Read my past carefully: I hope martial law does not happen, in fact I am putting my money where my mouth is a donating to organizations to fight against the ever-increasing diminishment of our existing rights. It's George Bush, who said he preferred dictatorship because it was easier, that seems to push for increasing executive power and folks like you who attack those who wish to defend individual freedom.


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Posted by Can Democracy Survive Lunacy?
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 17, 2008 at 9:26 am

> that seems to push for increasing executive power
> and folks like you who attack those who wish to
> defend individual freedom.

FDR had far more power than our current executive. The security needs of the country shift over time. Sorry you haven't taken the time to read US history and learn the fundamental lessons of our Republic defense needs.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by a
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Mar 17, 2008 at 9:49 am

Well, you have people like me to thank that George Bush doesn't have more power than he does.


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Posted by Can Democracy Survive Lunacy?
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 17, 2008 at 10:04 am

> Well, you have people like me to thank that
> George Bush doesn't have more power than he does.

Really? In what way?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by julie
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 17, 2008 at 11:54 am



So marvin supports israels spying on the USA using US citizens Web Link

marvin just lost all credibility and should register as an agent of an alien country asap.

By the way a new set of federal trials against israeli spies was lauched in NY last week


read between the lines



 +   Like this comment
Posted by Marvin
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Mar 17, 2008 at 12:08 pm

Julie--still waiting on links for on "Obamas adviser tell me about power of the israel lobby" from your earlier post.

Which "new trials" are you referring to? The former AIPAC members trial?

Some points:

1) Jonathon Pollard is old news
2) Please show me where I support Israel spying on the US
3) I "lost credibility" with who?
4) I do not care if I "lost credibility" with you
5) Why should i "should register as an agent of an alien country "?
6) Have you moved from Stanford to Downtown North?

Don;t believe everything PPJC tells you or anything that Hamas/Hezbollah say. Just a suggestion.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by joel
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Mar 17, 2008 at 12:18 pm



Actually Pollard is not old news, it is a current as January 2008

The Israeli government has paid for at least two of Pollard's trial attorneys—Richard A. Hibey and Hamilton Philip Fox III—and has repeatedly asked for his release. Israeli leaders often raise the Pollard case in discussions with U.S. officials, including presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.

In 1998, Israel admitted in a statement from then-Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Pollard had been an Israeli spy. "One of the first things we said (at the 1998 Wye River conference)", recalled Netanyahu in an interview, "was that if we signed an agreement with Arafat, I expected a pardon for Pollard".

President Clinton declined to release Pollard.

The Israeli request for Pollard's release made in New York on September 14, 2005 was again declined by President Bush. A request on Pollard's behalf that he be designated a Prisoner of Zion was rejected by the High Court of Justice of Israel on January 16, 2006. Another appeal for intervention on Pollard's behalf was rejected by the High Court on June 8, 2006.

On January 10, 2008, the subject of Pollard's pardon was again brought up, this time by Prime Minster Ehud Olmert, at President Bush's first visit to Israel as president. This request was turned down by President Bush.

The next day, at a dinner attended by several ministers in the Israeli government (in addition to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice), the subject of Pollard's release was again brought up. This time however, Prime Minister Olmert stated that it was not the appropriate occasion to discuss the fate of the convicted Israeli spy.

The Jerusalem City Council, in support of Pollard, changed the name of a square near the official prime minister's residence from Paris Square to Freedom for Jonathan Pollard Square (Web Link).



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Posted by Marvin
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Mar 17, 2008 at 12:27 pm

Pollard is old news.
He was convicted in a court and sentenced to prison. Unless the president agrees to pardon him/release him early, he will stay in prison. No problems here with that.
Let's move on to something new and relevant.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by julie
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 17, 2008 at 2:43 pm


Re obamas advisers


Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Jr. is the long-time Pastor of Obama's church, and Obama has credited him as being an inspiration and guiding light for him. He is a spiritual mentor to Obama and coined the term the "audacity of hope" that Obama has essentially made a theme of his campaign as well as the title of a book. He also has, in the words of the Chicago Tribune, a militant past.

Moreover, Pastor Wright has beliefs that might disturb some of Obama's supporters. He is a believer in "liberation theology," which makes the liberation of the oppressed a paramount virtue. The language of liberation all too often veers off into anti-Jewish rants. For example, one of the founders of the movement, Gustavo Gutierrez, has stated that the infidelities of the Jewish people made the Old Covenant [between the Jews and God] invalid." Pastor Wright is also a supporter of Louis Farrakhan, and in 1984 traveled with him to visit Col. Muammar al-Gadaffi, an archenemy of Israel's and America and a firm supporter of terror groups.

Wright has also been a severe critic of Israel. In his own words,

The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for almost 40 years now. It took a divestment campaign to wake the business community up concerning the South Africa issue. Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community up and to wake Americans up concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism.


The Divestment issue will hit the floor during this month's General Synod. Divesting dollars from businesses and banks that do business with Israel is the new strategy being proposed to wake the world up concerning the racism of Zionism. That Divestment issue won't make the press either, however.

Once this history came to light, Obama started publicly distancing himself from his spiritual mentor, disinviting Wright from various Obama campaign events. Wright rationalized his current persona non grata status by stating that otherwise

"a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell"








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Posted by Marvin
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Mar 17, 2008 at 2:58 pm

Julie--oh him. he is no longer with the Obama campaign.
But you believe what he says about Israel, don't you? It is clear that Obama does not believe anything that Wright says about Israel. Does a c candidate have to agree with everything that each adviser believes in?
You are betraying your true beliefs with your comments regarding Israel's "illegal occupation", divestment and "injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism".

Julie, you are just upset that Israel has outmaneuvered the Palestinians for over 50+ years, but you can really thank the palestinian's arab brethren for the position they are in today.
It is very easy to scapegoat Israel , while ignoring the REAL CAUSE of Palestinian misery.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by julie
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 17, 2008 at 3:09 pm



obamas adviser and mid east #2



Brzezinski, 79, stepped into the crossfire this summer when he published an essay in the summer issue of the journal Foreign Policy, defending a controversial new book about the power of the "Israel Lobby" in American politics.

The book's authors, Harvard's Stephen Walt and the University of Chicago's John Mearsheimer, thanked him for his "incisive defense."

But the article inserted him into one of the most heated debates in America-Israel politics, a bitter dispute about whether the authors' claims smacked of bigotry, whether their critics are – as Brzezinski put it — "McCarthyite."

"It is a tremendous mistake for Barack Obama to select as a foreign policy adviser the one person in public life who has chosen to support a bigoted book," said Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz, one of the most visible critics of the Walt and Mearsheimer volume, titled "The Israel Lobby." (Dershowitz has contributed to the campaign of Obama's leading rival, Senator Hillary Clinton of New York.)



btw marvin your support for israeli spying activities will not win you many friends in the loyal US Jewish community



 +   Like this comment
Posted by Boaz
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Mar 17, 2008 at 3:13 pm

I guess the participants at Saturday's rally, Peninsula Peace and Justice, Raging Grannies and various others, are also sorry that Hezbollah terror chief Imad Mughniyah was recently killed in a Damascus blast.
I am sure they would have favored opening a dialog with him and negotiating some sort of truce with the man behind the murder of US Navy sailor Robert Stethem, Jewish community center bombings in Buenos Aires in 1992 and 1994, Marine barracks bombing in Beirut and the kidnapping, torture and murder of the CIA station chief in Beirut to name just a few of his crimes against humanity.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Marvin
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Mar 17, 2008 at 3:18 pm

Julie---please show me where i have stated that I support Israeli spying activities. Who is the "loyal US Jewish community"? Do you personally know anyone in that "community". How do you know that I am trying to "win many friends in the loyal US Jewish community"?

Perhaps you did not read (or chose to ignore) what I have written above:

"He was convicted in a court and sentenced to prison. Unless the president agrees to pardon him/release him early, he will stay in prison. No problems here with that."


Rather than making inflammatory remarks without any basis you should stick to the discussion at hand and stop trying to make inflammatory comments regarding what I believe in, without any personal knowledge of me or my beliefs.




 +   Like this comment
Posted by joel
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Mar 17, 2008 at 3:23 pm



Dont forget Dr Golstein in the crimes against humanity list


Baruch Kappel Goldstein (December 9 or December 12, 1956 – February 25, 1994, Hebrew: ברוך גולדשטיין‎) was an American born Israeli physician who perpetrated the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in the city of Hebron, murdering 29 Muslims at prayer in the Ibrahimi Mosque (within the Cave of the Patriarchs) and wounding another 150 in a shooting attack. Web Link

Israeli press-reports state that he refused to treat non-Jews, even those serving in the IDF.

When Goldstein was threatened with court-martial he declared: "I am not willing to treat any non-Jew. I recognize as legitimate only two religious authorities: Maimonides and Kahane."

Goldstein is buried at the Meir Kahane Memorial Park in Kiryat Arba, a Jewish settlement next to Hebron.

The park is named in memory of Rabbi Meir Kahane, founder of the Israeli far-right political party Kach, a group classified by the United States and Israeli governments as a terrorist organization.

Goldstein was a long-time devotee of Kahane.

The gravesite has become a pilgrimage site for those with extreme right-wing political views; a plaque near the grave reads "To the holy Baruch Goldstein, who gave his life for the Jewish people, the Torah and the nation of Israel."

In 2000, admirers gathered at his grave on Purim dressed as Goldstein, wearing lab coats, false beards, and carrying guns.

Between the killings and 2000, an estimated 10,000 people have visited the grave.




 +   Like this comment
Posted by Boaz
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Mar 17, 2008 at 3:33 pm

Joel--no argument here with your post. What Goldstein did was a crime against civilized humanity and an abomination. As you point out he is a martyr for those espousing extreme right-wing political views.
Let's also remember that after his act the vast majority of Israelis were revolted by his action, on the other hand after 9/11, the yeshiva massacre a few weeks back, as a couple of examples, the Palestinians danced in the streets, celebrated and handed out sweets to celebrate the killings.
However Goldstein perpetrated a single act--Mughniyah had a very long list of deaths attributed to him and do not forget that his acts were greated with joy and celebration among the Palestinian population.
You should have also mentioned in your post all the palestinain homicide bombers that have perpetrated acts of violence in Israel in your list of crimes against humanity. Right??


 +   Like this comment
Posted by julie
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 17, 2008 at 3:36 pm



I do not have a dog in this fight, I am simply quoting obamas adviser, one of over 20years standing.

In terms of the Palestinians, their best strategy is to go for a one state solution.

With the one state solution they will have to put up with Apartheid worse than in South Africa for a while.

In a few years demographics will prevail given their population growth.

The world will demand democracy, they will win and have control over all the land, greater than 60yrs ago.

It is just a matter of time.

even ohmert acknowledges this reality.



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Posted by julie
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 17, 2008 at 3:57 pm



obamas advisers # 3 there are many more examples but the points been made

samantha powers remember she left because she call billary a monster obama has never rejected her mid east policy

Just so we're clear here: Power said that her advice to the President would be to 1) "Alienate" the American Jewish community, and indeed all Americans, such as evangelical Christians, who support the state of Israel, because 2) Israeli leaders are "destroying the lives of their own people." 3) Pour billions of dollars of the taxpayers' money into "the new state of Palestine"; 4) Stage an American ground invasion of Israel and the Palestinian territories — what else can she mean by a "mammoth protection force" and a "military presence" that will be "imposed" by "external intervention"? — in order to do the exact same thing that she considers the height of arrogance and foolishness in Iraq: an American campaign to remake an Arab society.

Note that this wasn't her response to a question about her personal views of the conflict, or about what she envisions might be a utopian solution to the conflict; it was a response to a question about what she would tell the President of the United States if she was his adviser.





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Posted by ?
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 17, 2008 at 4:46 pm

200 people is barely a number that could descriptively "hundreds" even if it is just about correct.


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Posted by dismal turnout
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Mar 17, 2008 at 8:28 pm

how many people live in the bay area? How many showed up to the rally on Saturday? 200 according to a sympathetic reporter. I would consider that turnout a dismal failure. Says alot about how out of touch Paul George and his organization are.


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Posted by a
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Mar 17, 2008 at 8:45 pm

Maybe the reason why more people chose to stay home was because of the fear that U.S. is a little too much like China when it comes to protesting. Web Link


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Posted by a
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Mar 17, 2008 at 8:45 pm

Maybe the reason why more people chose to stay home was because of the fear that U.S. is a little too much like China when it comes to protesting. Web Link


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Posted by BP
a resident of Professorville
on Mar 17, 2008 at 9:18 pm

Yes, to the previous poster - people did not show up at the Palo Alto war protest because they feared being killed, just like the Tibetan protests. Nice analogy. Are you serious?


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Posted by a
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Mar 18, 2008 at 7:11 am

significnatly adverse consequences can happen here in America when you protest against the Bush administration. Web Link


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Posted by Walter E. Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 18, 2008 at 12:12 pm

I condemn the anti-Isreal cabal in the State Department career employees. Their sabotage of sitting presidents is far more egregious than Polard bypassing obstructionists to convey intelligence to Isreal we had promised them. I am disapointed that Dr. Rice did not flush the mess, just as I am sorry the President did not clean out the gaggadian mess in the CIA. I believe it is time to eliminate public employee unions and to limit the political activity of public empoyees to individual voting.


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Posted by ng
a resident of College Terrace
on Mar 18, 2008 at 2:32 pm





by Roger L. Simon

Barack, I didn't do it for this.

Barack, I was a civil rights worker… South Carolina, 1966… 22 yrs old … helping old folks register to vote, teaching kids to read and write, directing Raisin in the Sun…

Barack, I didn't do it for this.

Barack, I dream of my kindergarten best friend Andy from Walden School, Manhattan, born one day after me, shot dead in Mississippi 1964.

Barack, I idolized Stokley Carmichael and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.

Barack, I lost the full use of my left hand for life in South Carolina.

Barack, I didn't do it for this.

Barack, I gave hundreds to the Black Panthers for their children's breakfast program when I was 25 and a young screenwriter in Echo Park, Los Angeles, even though I knew Huey was crazy and was worried my money might have been going for guns, even though I had my own children in the house when the Panthers came over, their jackets bulging.

Barack, I made excuses for the Black Power Movement even though I knew it was turning racist.

Barack, I didn't do it for this.

Barack, your speech was bullshit.

Barack, this isn't about generations.

Barack, this isn't about the black church.

Barack, this is about a pathological minister whose uncontrolled anger wounds his own people and keeps them down.

Barack, this is about a man who ignored that rage for his own political gain and even now won't admit a huge mistake and looks for nuance and excuses.

Barack, this about a woman who went on scholarship to Princeton and Harvard and still hates America.

Barack, you say you want Black-Jewish reconciliation but you hung with an anti-Semite.

Barack, I didn't do it for this.

Roger L. Simon is an Academy Award-nominated screenwriter, novelist and blogger, and the CEO of Pajamas Media.
———


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Posted by Can we stop the war
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 18, 2008 at 10:48 pm

I attended the Saturday event and there were lots of people, the Plaza was full and people spilled over to the street. Yes the weather was uncertain. I think people are discouraged about trying to stop the war. I am. The president is so single minded it seems hopeless to try.
Tomorrow, MoveOn members are holding candlelight vigils in Palo Alto and around the country to commemorate the 5th anniversary of the tragic invasion of Iraq.
City Hall King Plaza, Palo Alto (in Palo Alto)
Wednesday, Mar. 19, 2008, at 7:00 PM


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