http://paloaltoonline.com/print/story/print/2012/02/10/the-fresh-market-coming-to-edgewood-plaza


Palo Alto Weekly

News - February 10, 2012

The Fresh Market coming to Edgewood Plaza

Palo Alto grocery store will be company's first on the West Coast

by Sue Dremann

The Fresh Market, a North Carolina-based, European-style specialty market will open its first West Coast store at Edgewood Plaza Shopping Center in Palo Alto, a source close to the deal told the Palo Alto Weekly last Friday, Feb. 3.

Developer John Tze of Sand Hill Property Company notified the city's Architectural Review Board on Feb. 1 by letter that the company had signed a long-term lease with a grocer "who is highly desired by our neighbors." The property is located at 2080 Channing Ave., near U.S. Highway 101.

"Edgewood will be their first Bay Area location before expanding throughout California," Tze wrote. He did not name the grocer, but during previous interviews he said it came down to two companies: Fresh and Easy and The Fresh Market. He did not return a phone call asking which market had signed the lease.

Fresh and Easy has already expanded in the Bay Area and recently opened a store in Mountain View. But The Fresh Market has no stores in California.

The company has 124 markets either open or under construction in 21 states. The westernmost site it has announced is in Tulsa, Okla. However, company officials visited Edgewood Plaza last April, eying it the possible launch site for its West Coast group of stores.

The Fresh Market was started by Ray and Beverly Berry in Greensboro, N.C., in 1982. The couple wanted to build a quality grocery store with the ambiance of an open European market.

The stores are service oriented and offer loose fresh produce, freshly roasted coffee, an old-style butcher shop and fish market, produce and floral stands, a delicatessen, a bakery and classical music, according to the company website.

Jordan Worrall, public-relations representative for Fresh Market, said she could not comment on the store coming to California, since the company has not yet made an announcement.

Damon Scholl, Cornish & Carey Commercial broker for Edgewood Plaza, also said he could not comment on which store had signed the lease. And some residents who are in communication with the developer said they are sworn to secrecy.

But a source who asked to remain anonymous confirmed that The Fresh Market is the lessee. The grocer will occupy the old 20,100 square-foot Lucky Stores/Albertson's building, which is being renovated.

Lucky Store was built at the historic Eichler shopping center in 1957. The store eventually changed ownership and became an Albertson's, which closed in August 2006. Without an anchor store, the shopping center became defunct.

Crescent Park resident Susie Hwang started weekly food-truck events called "Edgewood Eats" in August 2010 to draw attention to residential enthusiasm for revitalizing the center and to help lure a potential grocer.

She said she could not comment on which company had signed the lease but said she and Sand Hill are trying to figure out what will happen to Edgewood Eats during construction.

The grocer anticipates opening by Thanksgiving, Tze wrote to the Architectural Review Board. Scholl said Tze "is talking to a handful of great tenants" to bring to Edgewood, exploring retailers from coffee and pet stores to financial services.

JOIN THE CONVERSATION

People are talking about The Fresh Market and its potential impact on Palo Alto. Join the conversation on Town Square, the online discussion forum, by going to PaloAltoOnline.com and searching for "Fresh Market."

Staff Writer Sue Dremann can be emailed at sdremann@paweekly.com.

Comments

Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 3, 2012 at 4:44 pm

Classical Music?

A grand piano in the foyer? Canned musak? Or just old LPs on sale?


Posted by Trendy-Only-Goes-So-Far, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 3, 2012 at 6:12 pm

This is not a good site for a supermarket. Unless this place is run by magicians, they are going to have to compete with the stores that have absorbed Edgewood's customers, the Internet, and probably another round of home-delivery/Internet-based food retailers.

EPA customers are not likely to be looking for trendy, $20/lb coffee beans, or $50/lb goat's milk cheese, produced from goats living 20,000 feet above the snow line, drinking only glacier water and breathing "pure air".

The Alma Plaza will also be bringing a similar store to the midtown area. Not to mention that Safeway will be opening a large store in the rebuilt San Antonio Plaza, and Walmart has gone into groceries--big time--in the San Antonio Plaza (Showers Drive) Mountain View store.

This hard to be enthusiastic about this store's being hugely successful.


Posted by choice, a resident of Midtown
on Feb 3, 2012 at 6:58 pm

I live in midtown and am disgusted with the bland boring selection of food at Safeway. I welcome local store with a wider variety of fresh foods. I hope they are not limiting themselves to ingredients commonly used in European recipes, since many other foods are popular locally.

Grocery stores selling fresh foods are not going to be attacked by Amazon anytime in the near future.


Posted by JT, a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 3, 2012 at 7:02 pm

If this store is non-union, I'll bet our pro-union council members will throw some kind of monkey wrench in there to stop them from coming to Palo Alto. The four union backed council members are Gail Price, Yiaway Yeh, Sid Espinosa and Nancy Shepherd, and Larry Klein can be counted upon by Labor in a pinch.


Posted by CC, a resident of East Palo Alto
on Feb 3, 2012 at 7:14 pm

Your right Trendy-Only-Goes-So-Far I can agree with you that Trendy will not cover our needs. I am one of those EPA customers that will be shopping some place else. I can't afford those coffee beans or the fancy goat cheese. I was hoping for a store with the regular stuff like laundry soap and fresh veggies for my every day cooking. The drive to Nob Hill has been worth the drive after those other stores left us stranded. Mi Pueblo is good in a pinch but it is still missing some of the things I need every day.


Posted by anonymous, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 4, 2012 at 8:39 am

Hey, I am very grateful for this interesting sounding-development and will look forward to walking to this store. The redeveloper has had massive challenges dealing with this city and some neighbors, while a huge amount of time has gone by. Let's get the redevelopment of this derelict plaza going ASAP - no excuses, no delays. Who cares if it's union or not - it's a small scale business. Do you throw a tantrum if your flower shop isn't union? If our city council interferes based on that, I will be disgusted.


Posted by Simba's mom, a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 4, 2012 at 9:40 am

I am thrilled that any type of interesting redevelopment is finally taking place there. It's sad for such a lovely neighborhood to have a run down space left undeveloped for years. I am sensitive to cost, I frequent the Milk Pail and Costco though I succumb to Whole Foods because it's close. I hope to help this new development succeed with some portion of my shopping dollars. I also think it will be a great place to walk to and stop for a coffee or to pick up a few things on the way with my dog. People looking for ordinary average quality stuff can still go to Safeway. We don't need another generic grocery store.


Posted by Marrol, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Feb 4, 2012 at 10:14 am

This is great news. Palo Alto, and certainly this location, needs a more upscale market that will offer a selection that goes beyond what a chain grocery store normally provides. We shouldn't be catering to our entire region. A European style market fits our local demographic perfectly and offers what people have come to expect in Palo Alto.


Posted by Trendy-Only-Goes-So-Far, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 4, 2012 at 10:27 am

> A European style market fits our local demographic perfectly and
> offers what people have come to expect in Palo Alto

Says who?

A goodly percentage of Palo Altans are now in their retirement years, and living on fixed incomes. Somewhere between 40% and 50% of Palo Altans are renters--who are often paying through the nose just to live in this over-price "golden ghetto". And as noted in the previous posting, East Palo Alto lies nearby--with its very "non-European" population.

South Palo Alto is served by Piazzas, two Safeways, Whole Foods, Walmarts, Molly Stones and the new Alma market . There are a couple specialty markets in Los Altos. All of these stores are closer to South Palo Alto than the Edgewood site is. While drive times from SPA to Edgewood are not bad during non-peak times, they are murder during certain times of the day, and on Stanford football weekends.

No matter what motif this store opens with, it won't last very long. There just aren't enough people in that section of Palo Alto to keep a 20,000 sq. ft. market going if it caters to the "European" crowd.


Posted by Hazelvue, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 4, 2012 at 2:19 pm

I live in the Edgewood Plaza neighborhood and I can't wait!! I shopped at Albertsons for milk and staples was forced to switch to rotating stops at Safeway, Whole Foods, Cooks, Schaubs and Piazza's to get what I want for my weekly recipe plan and am delighted I can walk to the new market and buy staples and fresh food for dinner. I hope their grocery buyer, deli and takeout will support local artisan food producers as well - like the Ferry building does in SF. I will continue to support Piazzas, Cooks and Schaubs when I can because they are local businesses and not chains, trying to make a go of it and have great stuff but I can't get in and out of those places in 15 minutes because they are too far.


Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 4, 2012 at 2:45 pm

What is a "European" style market? Does that mean small? Does it mean boutique? I doubt very much it means selling imported European goods.

Does it just mean fancy, posh or expensive? I suspect so.


Posted by Frank, a resident of another community
on Feb 4, 2012 at 3:17 pm

Re: Posted by Marrol, a resident of the Embarcadero Oaks/Leland neighborhood, 4 hours ago...

"Palo Alto, and certainly this location, needs a more upscale market that will offer a selection that goes beyond what a chain grocery store normally provides."

How about a decent, affordable, grocery outlet that meets the demands of diverse consumers on both sides of 101, instead of a desire for another "upscale" establishment? Please, enough with the Whole Foods Markets.


Posted by Will shop there often, a resident of Community Center
on Feb 4, 2012 at 6:14 pm

Can't wait! Sounds like a fantastic store to have nearby. Our Whole Foods is tiny and TJs has its limits. Safeway is always the last on our list and isnt that convenient. It'll be wonderful to have a nice grocery store which is on our way home each day. Can't understand the above criticism. I hope this store opens soon!


Posted by Crescent Park Neighbor, a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 4, 2012 at 7:14 pm

There is not even the slightest question in my mind as to whether or not this grocery store will do well. It is so highly anticipated and everyone I know is buzzing about it. It will surely be a success! The thought of not having to drive across Embarcadero or Middlefield or even 101 to find groceries is a wonderful and exciting thought. Can not wait!


Posted by Dog owner, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 4, 2012 at 7:31 pm

We've lived close to this sad, neglected plaza since 2006. How nice it will be to have somewhere close at hand for the weekly shop and, more particularly, somewhere to go for the forgotten item. I am looking forward to sending my teenager there on her bike, as my parents sent me to the local store in my youth!

The next question will be, what other retail outlets can fill up the rest of the space? How about an independent coffee shop that you can see from the gas station?


Posted by Marrol, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Feb 4, 2012 at 9:19 pm

Because Frank from Another Community, this store's first priority should be to serve the demographic where it is located. This should be an upscale market because that is what the market in Palo Alto demands. We have no obligation or consideration to provide a service for the entire region. If you want a generic, affordable grocery store, then lobby for one wherever you happen to live.


Posted by JA3+, a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 5, 2012 at 11:29 am

Fantastic news! I'm excited by the addition of a new Fresh Market and I'll certainly look forward to shopping here.

I encourage the City to facilitate the location or relocation of more retail to our environs; diversity is a big plus, in my opinion.


Posted by anonymous, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 5, 2012 at 11:33 am

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.] What business is it of yours what target demographic this market chooses to aim for? It is the choice of the owner of the business. There are plenty of "ethnic" businesses of all varieties all over SF and Silicon Valley.
What I read was it is "a North Carolina based, European style specialty market" and I am delighted to welcome this business to this much neglected commercial plaza.


Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 5, 2012 at 1:00 pm

Anon from Duvenick

Please can you tell me what a European style specialty market is?

In Europe, supermarkets are often touted as American style Supermarkets. European markets usually mean a baker, a butcher, a greengrocer (produce), a dairy, etc. in one market and you buy at each stand? The idea that you go from one stall to another and pay at the exit at the end is what is meant as American style. So, are we going to have to pay several times as we go around this market. I can't for the life of me understand what it means otherwise.


Posted by Crescent Park Dad, a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 5, 2012 at 7:12 pm

Palo Alto must lead the nation in whiners & complainers on a per capita basis.

Why don't we let the free market decide what works or not?

The fact that *any* grocer is willing to take on a small, restricted sized store space...where the residents are known for fighting change and developers as a daily past-time...for once can people just be happy that something is going to happen? That some one is willing to risk *their* money to try something new.

Give them a chance to do put their investment to work - then decide for yourselves.

Read the reviews on the Internet...seems that they are doing something right.


Posted by Richard Clark, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 5, 2012 at 9:03 pm

*** YIPEE !!! ***


Posted by Me, a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Feb 5, 2012 at 9:15 pm

Looking at the Fresh Market web site, it sounds like they are nice, if somewhat pricey, shop, with a great butcher and produce, though not as much variety or non-food products as some other stores. Fits a certain niche, hopefully will meet the needs of folks in that part of town.


Posted by anonymous, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 6, 2012 at 10:08 am

I will walk to the new store to buy something on the first day it is open. I live nearby. I am delighted the developer and store owner are making this happen. It sounds suitable and a great asset to our neighborhood, Duveneck/St. Francis.
Incidentally, I noticed some posters with objections to this store don't even live in the neighborhood, so why are they objecting so strongly? How does a small neigborhood store affect YOU if you don't even live in the neighborhood? Just sayin.'


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 6, 2012 at 10:47 am

"Incidentally, I noticed some posters with objections to this store don't even live in the neighborhood, so why are they objecting so strongly? How does a small neigborhood store affect YOU if you don't even live in the neighborhood? "
Do you think your neighborhood alone will be able to sustain this store? I doubt it--you will need shoppers from all over to have store make a go at it. So input should be welcomed.
Do not forget how the protecting of JJ&F (a small neighborhood store) at the demand of College Terrace has impacted shopping in the city. Plus this store is 20K square feet--so it is one of the biggest in the city


Posted by Working Mom, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 6, 2012 at 10:56 am

S look forward to another grocery store that carries a variety of fresh produce and has a butcher counter. If I want standard, any-label-will-do goods such as toilet paper or laundry detergent, Safeway is fine. But fresh, organic produce within walking distance sounds excellent. Being able to drop in on my way home from work, or even being to send one of my kids on a bike to pick something up, will be a real boon!


Posted by Enough!, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 6, 2012 at 11:00 am

Cater to BOTH sides of the freeway? Lucky's catered to both sides of the freeway and it was often a crime pit. I had many members of the community warn me about shopping at that center, especially at night. A few years ago there were even fliers distributed warning potential shoppers to use caution. The cops warned my mom it wasn't safe to be there at night. The liquor store didn't help either. Of course in planning this 'upscale' operation they threw out the small business owner of the wig store. Let's see if they can keep the shopping center nicer and more secure. And let me clarify right up front. Racist? No. Realist? Yes.


Posted by Luna, a resident of East Palo Alto
on Feb 6, 2012 at 11:11 am

I welcome the European Market/Mercado. Can't wait to shop there!


Posted by Chris B, a resident of Community Center
on Feb 6, 2012 at 11:15 am

European = Expensive. Will continue to shop at MV Safeway.


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 6, 2012 at 11:29 am

"Lucky's catered to both sides of the freeway and it was often a crime pit."
When was it a "crime pit"? Please provide data for your claims.

"A few years ago there were even fliers distributed warning potential shoppers to use caution"
When was this? when did Lucky's close?

"The cops warned my mom it wasn't safe to be there at night."
Why weren;t the cops doing anything if it was not safe?


Posted by JustMe, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 6, 2012 at 11:36 am

I am not all that convinced that this shopping center needs to cater to EPA's shopping needs. It shoulds like it will do very well meeting the needs of the Edgewood area, and that is fine by me. If it fails to attract EPA shoppers that try my car doors and scan for bicycles as they walk by, I don't have a problem with that. (Yes, I have CERTAINLY experienced that, and I don't need it. The Palo Alto neighborhoods are NOT to be considered shopping areas.)

EPA has some markets already, and these markets suit their areas. They used to have a Lucky's but they killed it. (My father-in-law tried to shop there, but he was the wrong ethnicity to get service from the employees. Discrimination is ALWAYS wrong, no matter which direction it points. So the Lucky's failed to attract PA customers for some reason.)

We don't need to cater to EPA, thank you. I am willing to help EPA, but not by posing as a victim for them.


Posted by JustMe, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 6, 2012 at 11:39 am

svatoid, the cops tried, but they were outnumbered. My father-in-law also got held up at gunpoint at the Edgewood Lucky's. Yes, it was a crime pit.


Posted by Anon., a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 6, 2012 at 11:40 am

Currently I like to get preprared food, organic, and majority vegetarian from local stores, but the best places I have found so far to go are Whole Foods in Cupertino preferably or Mountain View, which are good. Sad about Whole Foods in Palo Alto - it is just not professional or dilligent enough any longer.

I would just like to have a place to go in Palo Alto other than Whole Foods or Piazzi's Market to get fresh veggies and fruits and healthy prepared foods at a reasonable price say $8/lb. Maybe some competition would liven up Piazzis and Whole Foods and motivate them to get better and more competitive.

I live on Channing, so if there was a nice place within a 1/2 mile I would go there, even walk, almost daily to get fresh wholesome food!

I still do not see how they are going to use that small little space on Edgewood and build housing units and stores there and have it all fit in and not be a total mess for the local neighborhood, but if they can do it, I'll be buying food there for a long time if it fresh, good and reasonably priced.


Posted by Crescent Park Dad, a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 6, 2012 at 12:19 pm

"When was it a "crime pit"? Please provide data for your claims."

There was a reason Yucky's had a security guard at the door and patrolling the parking lot...from morning until closing.


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 6, 2012 at 12:23 pm

"the cops tried, but they were outnumbered."
Not sure what that says about the Palo Alto police, but i find it amusing that they could not handle a few issues at Edgewood. IMHO, this whole things sounds like an exaggeration.


Posted by JA3+, a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 6, 2012 at 12:49 pm

"Yes, it was a crime pit."

+1.

I first moved to Crescent Park in 1972; at such time, Yucky's / Lucky's was known as a spot to avoid.


Posted by Delores, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 6, 2012 at 12:56 pm

I can't wait!! I have wanted a close place to run to after work!! Or as one person mentioned I can send the kids on their bikes!! I love Piazza's and am super happy with the Trader Joes but this will be nice to have close by.


Posted by JustMe, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 6, 2012 at 1:28 pm

What I am REALLY hoping for is a place nearby with the proper facilities so that I can say to the kids "Hey, let's bicycle over to Edgewood and get ice cream/slushie/jamba/whatever." And I want it to be safe to do just that. I am willing to pay a little more for the safety.


Posted by JustMe, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 6, 2012 at 1:31 pm

"IMHO, this whole things sounds like an exaggeration."

It's not, in fact, we are being kind. I remember waiting in line there while a fat girl wearing bedroom slippers counted out food stamps to pay for a couple packages of fresh shrimp. Some of the people that showed up there made the Beverly Hillbillys look refined and proper.


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 6, 2012 at 1:51 pm

"I remember waiting in line there while a fat girl wearing bedroom slippers counted out food stamps to pay for a couple packages of fresh shrimp"
and JustMe what is the problem with that? That she was fat? That she had on slippers? That she was using food stamps? or that she was buying shrimp? Did you ask her why she was using food stamps.
It looks like now the comments are skewing towards racial stereotyping and rudeness towards our neighbors in EPA, who, like JusMe, feel that they are better than they are. How sad.
Boy the people in Palo Alto love to say how progressive and open and understanding they are--some are no better than Bull Connor


"Some of the people that showed up there made the Beverly Hillbillys look refined and proper."
I guess you were one of them--comments about your father-in-law etc and the police being outnumbered are just BS. Just like when you paint all of EPA with your broad brush of hatred and intolerance ("I am willing to help EPA, but not by posing as a victim for them.").
Let's see real proof for your claims--news stories, crime stats, victim statements. It does not sound like the surrounding neighborhood would have put up with the issue if your stories were even a 0.0001% true.


Posted by Neighbor, a resident of Menlo Park
on Feb 6, 2012 at 3:44 pm

Sounds Great! My daily commute is right by this site and am looking forward to having a nice grocery store at which to shop, that is convenient to the freeway. Also, regularly attended Edgewood Eats, and the neighborhood could definitely use a nice community oriented center and gathering place.


Posted by know what you mean, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 6, 2012 at 4:32 pm

Just me- I know exactly what you mean. Once I was in a grocery store in Palo alto and there was a white gentleman ahead of me buying European style food. He was wearing shorts with birkenstocks and dress socks. He was wearing a button that said " if you want to know how to do things properly ask me-I am from Palo alto. He was questioning the clerk about the organic nature of the products he was buying and said he was on his way to the farmers market. It was awful.


Posted by Outside Observer, a resident of another community
on Feb 6, 2012 at 6:13 pm

@ Just Me and @ Know What You Mean,

You are both right. And that's why I'll never shop there regardless of what the market is.


Posted by Frank, a resident of another community
on Feb 7, 2012 at 5:38 am

Re: Posted by Marrol, a resident of the Embarcadero Oaks/Leland neighborhood, on Feb 4, 2012 at 9:19 pm

"This should be an upscale market because that is what the market in Palo Alto demands."

Go ahead, serve your ego and pay the higher prices for food while pretending it's "upscale". It's a done deal anyway and it's better than nothing that has occupied that neglected property for years. Neglected, due to the petty bickering among residents, and a city government that has been unable, or lacked the will, to make a decision.


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 7, 2012 at 6:06 am

"It's a done deal anyway and it's better than nothing that has occupied that neglected property for years. Neglected, due to the petty bickering among residents, and a city government that has been unable, or lacked the will, to make a decision."
That description sounds exactly like Alma Plaza as well. I see a pattern here with regard to petty bickering and our city government. So much for walkable neighbohoods.


Posted by NC Transplant, a resident of Stanford
on Feb 7, 2012 at 6:22 am

WONDERFUL NEWS! Fresh Market is such a great mix of the things I love about Draeger's but without the cost. Depending on the store- they are larger, like a Whole Foods with wonderful butcher/prepared goods/bakery, etc. Still some organic choices but not to the exclusion of all else. My absolute favorite place to shop, especially at the holidays. When do they open?!


Posted by Marrol, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Feb 7, 2012 at 7:35 am

Well Frank, it's all in one's perspective. Excuse me for wanting and expecting something more than the ordinary. As for our city government, well, it's our city government and I'll take her along with her relative faults. Palo Alto's track record is still positive I'd say. In your case, since you don't reside here, that's one more problem off your list and you need not to concern yourself.


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 7, 2012 at 7:54 am

"This should be an upscale market because that is what the market in Palo Alto demands."
So Marrol--you consider Fresh Market an "upscale" market?? What exactly is an upscale market?? WHen did Palo Alto "demand" this upscale market??? I thought that the idea was to re-do the plaza and have the developer lure a market for the site. When was the issue of an "upscale" market discussed?
It seems more likely that this store fits the Palo Alto image of a "boutique" store (since Palo alto is special, it must have special stores)--the city is full of them. Check out University Avenue, look at Stanford SHopping Center. Not much in the way of shopping for most people that reside here.


Posted by Marrol, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Feb 7, 2012 at 8:11 am

Yes Svatoid, I believe the Palo Alto market demands and caters to something "more upscale" was my quote. Again, I would rather see an establishment that provides something more than the basic and ordinary. Wow, I thought this forum was for expressing thoughts and ideas. Excuse me for having an opinion.

As for the retail establishments in Stanford Shopping Center and on University Avenue, yes, that also reflects the community demands. They wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. Since Palo Alto is apparently too pretentious for you, move to Mountain View or Sunnyvale, preferably right across the street from a Safeway or Lucky store.


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 7, 2012 at 8:32 am

"Wow, I thought this forum was for expressing thoughts and ideas. Excuse me for having an opinion."
No one is stopping you from expressing "thoughts and ideas". Marrol. I was just questioning some of your comments. Is that allowed???

"As for the retail establishments in Stanford Shopping Center and on University Avenue, yes, that also reflects the community demands. They wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case."
Really? I thought that stores that really met the demand of our community could not be there because of the outrageous rents. While there may be many rich people in the city--there are also many more working class people, who do not shop at the "boutique" stores that populate Palo Alto.

"Since Palo Alto is apparently too pretentious for you, move to Mountain View or Sunnyvale, preferably right across the street from a Safeway or Lucky store."
For someone who complains about being able to express an opinion, Marroll sure is quick to attack people who do not share his/her opinon and to tell people that they should not be living in Palo Alto if they do not believe in her vision of what retail should look like here.
I enjoy living in Palo Alto--especially with the large number of stores in neighboring cities where I can do my shopping. I just do what many people in PA do, spend their shopping dollars in neighboring cities.

BTW, Marroll, you never explained why you think Fresh Market is "upscale" and what exactly is "upscale". Trader Joe, for example, provides something more than the basic and ordinary, yet it is not upscale. Same with Mollie Stones. Does upscale mean paying $10 for a gallon of "upscale" milk you can get for $2 at Safeway. Have you been to the Menlo Park Safeway--they provide more than the basic and ordinary. The reason there is the "basic and ordinary" in Palo Alto groceries is because of the size limits (can't have too much competition for JJ&F).


Posted by JustMe, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 7, 2012 at 9:02 am

Please excuse me not responding sooner, been busy.

"and JustMe what is the problem with that? That she was fat? That she had on slippers? That she was using food stamps? or that she was buying shrimp? Did you ask her why she was using food stamps. "

Probably the biggest thing that bugged me about her was the fact that she cut in front of me in line. No, I did not pursue the issue with her or make a scene, but I fumed quietly. The next thing that bugged me was the fact that she was using food stamps to buy an expensive luxury food, while I was struggling to feed myself and my wife and paying the taxes that got her the food stamps. Pretty much, that is what caused me to take note of her slovenly attire. (Recalling, it was a while ago,) she was wearing something more like socks on her feet, kind of a cross between slippers and socks, certainly not intended for venturing outdoors.


"It looks like now the comments are skewing towards racial stereotyping and rudeness towards our neighbors in EPA, who, like JusMe, feel that they are better than they are. How sad."

I was living in EPA at the time, it was the best I could afford at the time. Remember Peppertree Apartments? (shudder)

"Boy the people in Palo Alto love to say how progressive and open and understanding they are--some are no better than Bull Connor"

I know and love people in EPA, and I wish better for them. But my neighbors and I have been robbed by people traveling from EPA (Newell bridge) to Edgewood Plaza and THOSE people I would rather not try to cater to and attract.

If you want a market to cater to a neighborhood in EPA, I would think you would want to put it in or near that neighborhood. This plaza is in a Palo Alto neighborhood and should probably cater to the needs and desires of that neighborhood.

The place where PepperTree Apartments once stood is now a plaza with Home Depot, Best Buy, Jamba Juice, Ikea, and lots of other stores, including a market that caters to the people in the area. They are nice shops, and I spend my money there regularly. The cockroaches have apparently been evicted, though there are signs that the two-legged variety is still around on occasion. The people in that market, unlike the Lucky's that was there once, are service-minded and friendly, and I have never had a problem there. This is certainly progress and I would love to see more.




"Some of the people that showed up there made the Beverly Hillbillys look refined and proper."


I guess you were one of them--comments about your father-in-law etc and the police being outnumbered are just BS. Just like when you paint all of EPA with your broad brush of hatred and intolerance ("I am willing to help EPA, but not by posing as a victim for them.").


Let's see real proof for your claims--news stories, crime stats, victim statements. It does not sound like the surrounding neighborhood would have put up with the issue if your stories were even a 0.0001% true.


Posted by JustMe, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 7, 2012 at 9:04 am

Oops. sorry, I should have edited that better.


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 7, 2012 at 9:09 am

"Probably the biggest thing that bugged me about her was the fact that she cut in front of me in line. No, I did not pursue the issue with her or make a scene, but I fumed quietly. The next thing that bugged me was the fact that she was using food stamps to buy an expensive luxury food, while I was struggling to feed myself and my wife and paying the taxes that got her the food stamps. Pretty much, that is what caused me to take note of her slovenly attire. (Recalling, it was a while ago,) she was wearing something more like socks on her feet, kind of a cross between slippers and socks, certainly not intended for venturing outdoors."

Yes, quite the problem, JustMe. I see you have introduced a new factor--she cut in front of you in the line. I can see why it has bothered you for so long. That and the fact that your father-in-law was not served properly in EPA because he was white (another fantasy???)
What it has to do with Edgewood Plaza is still unknown to me. You have brought up a number of issues/fantasies which border on racism. That is for you to work out. I am sure all law abiding citizens form EPA are welcome to shop wherever they want--as are all the law abiding citizens in Palo Alto . In the meantime get over the woman buying the shrimp


Posted by Marrol, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Feb 7, 2012 at 10:17 am

Sorry Satoid, I merely expressed an opinion. You're the one who went on the attack, singled out individual posts, and began demeaning those positions. I'd prefer not to engage in that manner, but feel the need to point that out. Enough said on that. I will not respond further.

Again, I would like to see a more upscale market, to answer your inquiry, along the lines of Andronico's or Draeger's, however more likely a smaller version. Does that cover it for you? Those markets have outstanding products, excellent service, and I don't mind one bit paying higher prices to shop in that environment. I believe many Palo Altans feel the same way. There are plenty of other mainstream, chain grocery stores to choose from within a short driving distance. Knock yourself out.


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 7, 2012 at 10:27 am

Marrol--you clearly are way off base.
You say:
"Sorry Satoid, I merely expressed an opinion. You're the one who went on the attack, singled out individual posts, and began demeaning those positions. I'd prefer not to engage in that manner, but feel the need to point that out. Enough said on that. I will not respond further."

My original response to you was:
"So Marrol--you consider Fresh Market an "upscale" market?? What exactly is an upscale market?? WHen did Palo Alto "demand" this upscale market??? I thought that the idea was to re-do the plaza and have the developer lure a market for the site. When was the issue of an "upscale" market discussed?
It seems more likely that this store fits the Palo Alto image of a "boutique" store (since Palo alto is special, it must have special stores)--the city is full of them. Check out University Avenue, look at Stanford SHopping Center. Not much in the way of shopping for most people that reside here."

What exactly in my original response to you is an "attack" and how have I "demeaned" your position???
Considering that your response to me was:
"Since Palo Alto is apparently too pretentious for you, move to Mountain View or Sunnyvale, preferably right across the street from a Safeway or Lucky store."
I wonder who is on the attack and who is demeaning whom.

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

AS for Andronicos--we already saw what happened to our local Andronicos? If that is the case, do we really want or need an "upscale" market in PA??


Posted by Marrol, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Feb 7, 2012 at 10:54 am

Yes Satoid, Palo Alto wants something more like an Andronico's or Draeger's. Enough said.


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 7, 2012 at 10:58 am

"Yes Satoid, Palo Alto wants something more like an Andronico's or Draeger's. Enough said."
If we want something like Andronico's than why did the local one go out of business? The company obviously had financial troubles and the usually means a lack of customers.
Also since you are speaking for all of Palo Alto, I would like to know when the survey was taken and what questions were asked to determine the fact (as you state) that Palo Alto wants something like Andrinicos and Draegers. I would have thought that given our demographics, a Ranch99 type store would be more desired. But since you have the numbers, please share them with us.
A few simple questions for someone who is apparently speaking for the city to answer. We are waiting.


Posted by Annette, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Feb 7, 2012 at 11:12 am

Kudos to Cornish & Carey for making it through the PA process and bringing about a long overdue, much needed improvement to the Edgewood Eyesore. I am looking forward to having a market there again. I want to add my thanks to all who have commented on this topic. If nothing else, Palo Altans are highly entertaining.


Posted by Justme, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 7, 2012 at 1:16 pm

"Sorry Satoid, I merely expressed an opinion. You're the one who went on the attack, "

That really says it, doesn't it? He seems to like attack-mode. Why not? The whole world is against him. (Speaking of fantasies,...)

He also clearly has much more time for this than I do.

I am glad Edgewood Plaza is advancing, yay. I see no reason why we need to tailor it to meet the needs of EPA over the local neighborhood. Let Menlo Park cater to EPA, or Redwood City, or (here's an idea) EPA could cater to EPA!


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 7, 2012 at 1:21 pm

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


Posted by Marrol, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Feb 7, 2012 at 2:12 pm

A mute question anyway. Fresh Market is coming to town and they're much closer to what we in Palo Alto have come to expect. Certainly not a generic Safeway. Done deal. End of discussion. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 7, 2012 at 2:25 pm

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


Posted by Me, a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Feb 7, 2012 at 3:48 pm

"Palo Alto wants something more like an Andronico's or Draeger's."

I don't. I really don't. I'm sure some people do, but I think it is a big leap to asset that everyone, or even a majority does. The large Safeways like the one in MP are awesome and definitely I prefer to what I get at Andronico's or Draeger's, which I view as outmoded, underscale concepts that don't make money or satisfy customers (which are in some ways the same thing).

I think a ton of PA people like me drive to MV/MP to get their groceries. I'd rather shop closer to home, but it is not an option.


Posted by JustMe, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 7, 2012 at 4:04 pm

"Calling people out on their racist comments is wrong. "

But, but, but,... you seem to be calling EVERYONE a racist.

"Some people were traumatized by a person buying shrimp and their father-in-law being "mistreated" by Lucky's in EPA "

I don't recall mentioning anyone's race in there. You are just assuming that because I said these things happened I must be racist. I don't even recall the race of the girl in the Lucky's, I remeber her slovenly appearance and her rudeness and the fact that she was purchasing luxery goods with foodstamps more, and that she didn't seem to fit into the same class of people that would live in PA. But it was behavioral, not the racist.

On the other hand, I have noticed through the years that people who launch accusations at others with minimal foundation and leaped-to conclusions are often more guilty of those faults than their targets. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of East Palo Alto
on Feb 7, 2012 at 4:33 pm

The comment from the person from NC was useful, imo. It's hard to know what's wanted vs. needed vs. what'll stay in business because of the local boutique markets, the Farmer's Market, a Safeway no one seems to like & then the larger markets PLUS boutique markets AND Farmer's Markets in immediately surrounding areas.

This sounds like a nice business! I imagine that it'll more than attract locals - it'll also attract commuters on their way in & out, heading to Stanford events, etc.


Posted by JustMe, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 7, 2012 at 4:48 pm

Will you shop there Hmmm?


Posted by Sharon, a resident of Midtown
on Feb 7, 2012 at 4:50 pm

We wish them luck

--but the reality is that location is doomed.

It will attract crime and few customers--just like Luckys did.

It is a good location for dime stores and liquor stores-as it was

Or for cheap housing

Cheap housing is the best option for the location and neighborhood.

Location, location, location


Posted by get over it, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 7, 2012 at 4:51 pm

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


Posted by JustMe, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 7, 2012 at 5:15 pm

Does anyone know if that liquor store will be returning? I would be more than happy if it did not.

There was also a hair salon run by a sweet asian lady that I would LOVE to see return.
The golf shop was good, but the laundromat probably did not cater to the neighborhood.

There were some attempts at eating establishments, but they tended to be a bit run-down. I would be happy for some places to eat, but they should be up-scale, nice, no peeling paint kinda places.

Video surveylance should be all over.


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of East Palo Alto
on Feb 7, 2012 at 7:25 pm

Sure, JustMe, we'd shope there if we're still in the area when it's finally built. It'd be convenient & we'd appreciate that.

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of East Palo Alto
on Feb 7, 2012 at 10:34 pm

Sharon Sharon Sharon - get a clue, please!


Posted by svatoid, a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Feb 8, 2012 at 7:02 am

"But, but, but,... you seem to be calling EVERYONE a racist."
No, Justme--I am just calling you out for your veiled racist comments.

"I see no reason why we need to tailor it to meet the needs of EPA over the local neighborhood. Let Menlo Park cater to EPA, or Redwood City, or (here's an idea) EPA could cater to EPA!"
It will take a lot more than the neighborhood shoppers to sustain a 20K square foot market.
Why not try to cater to neighboring cities. After all,m we want shoppers comingto Palo Alto. remember Destination Palo Alto??? And what is wrong with being a good neighbor, JustMe.

We are still waiting for Marrol to address the issue of how she knows what Palo Alto wants in a supermarket.


Posted by Mark, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Feb 8, 2012 at 8:53 am

I think Susie Hwang and the Edgewood Eats program she started deserve a lot of credit for getting an anchor grocer interested in this site. Great job, Susie!


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of East Palo Alto
on Feb 8, 2012 at 10:39 am

Svatoid, I agree that it'll take more than local shoppers. My prediction is that people from various parts of PA will be customers, as will commuters, visitors who enter/leave PA on Embarcadero, EPA residents who don't shop at Mi Pueblo, some of the EPA employees of businesses at Univ Circle & the shopping center, & those attending Stanford events.

The mixed message of "We don't want use/please come visit & spend money here!" is ongoing. It wasn't like this when I was a kid. I find it ironic that it's "outsiders" who settle here who mostly have that attitude, from my experience.

One of the problems in predicting the success of this new market is because there are probably too many boutiuqe food markets in PA. While that's nice for those neighborhoods & niche marketing can be powerful, it's not an overall solution. MP has been able to avoid this issue because it has long-established larger grocers & has for many years. MV is similar.


Posted by Crescent Park Dad, a resident of Crescent Park
on Feb 10, 2012 at 12:33 pm

Besides the market, if you add a "name" coffee store (e.g., Peets, etc.), the site will work.

I don't know the answer - but I hope that they have considered how to best manage traffic. Ideally you would want the cars leaving the center to use St. Francis (traffic signal) intersection to turn left towards 101. The people who try to turn left out of the Shell station or Edgewood are always risking a crash from the folks coming off the overpass (and always speeding...).


Posted by Hmmm, a resident of East Palo Alto
on Feb 10, 2012 at 3:03 pm

A Peet's would be soooo nice. Imagine - not having to cross Middlefield or 101 or even Univ Ave to get a cuppa. I love Cafe Zoe, but having something right in that center would be so nice for so many...it reminds me of Rambo really said: "You brew first cup!"


Posted by Mary, a resident of another community
on Feb 28, 2012 at 11:00 am

How can you say Fresh Market "will open" if in the third paragraph you say you can't confirm it's Fresh Market or Fresh & Easy opening at this site?


Posted by N M , a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Apr 19, 2012 at 10:03 am

I am very happy to have European Market close by. It's so nice to walk to the store and bump into your neighbors or meet new people. Some of us have better income then the others. So , I'll spend what I can afford!
Did you notice how EPA welcomed Mi Pueblo!It's a great success!
Let's do it in Palo Alto too!!!!!!!!!!!
You have my go ahead.


Posted by Pete , a resident of Mountain View
on Apr 10, 2013 at 12:54 pm

Love this store....lived in VA and NC so very familiar. Can't wait till it opens!