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Uploaded: Monday, November 2, 2009, 9:35 AM

Palo Alto to consider dropping online forum
City Council set to vote on future of Open City Hall website

Listen to the Palo Alto City Council meeting live when the council is in session (usually Monday nights at 7 p.m.) via the KZSU Webcast.

by Gennady Sheyner
Palo Alto Online Staff

Posted by jardins, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 11:34 am

I for one didn't know that an Open City Hall online forum existed. If the City Council guarantees to read viewpoints expressed in the forum, then in my view the forum should be continued--and better advertised--as an important element of democracy. Few of us have the time to write letters to individual council members, and mailing letters is a slow way to communicate, so Open City Hall seems an ideal way to make one's views heard.

In fact, because council members evidently don't read Palo Alto Online, we'd all do better to use Open City Hall anyhow.

Posted by James, a resident of the Old Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 11:42 am

If the online forum does not draw enough people to return the people's investment, it should be temporarily discontinued to allow time for feedback while not costing further dollars. It is a good point that low usage could be a result of low awareness, but it is also known that people must accept technology instead of having it pushed upon them.

Posted by Joe, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 11:55 am

> Few of us have the time

> to write letters to individual council members, and mailing

> letters is a slow way to communicate, so Open City Hall

> seems an ideal way to make one's views heard.

The following email address has been in use for several years now:

city.council@cityofpaloalto.org

An email to this address will go to all council members, and several other government officials. Additionally, a hard copy will be printed off by the City Clerk's office, and added to the weekly packet. And, the Clerk has begun, of late, to see to it that emails are available on the City's web-site so that residents don't have to chase down a copy of the weekly Council packet in order to read the email of other people/organizations that have communicated with the Council via email. Individual emails for each Council member can be found on the City's City Council web-page.

The on-line forum provides a little more instantaneous access to the communications of people using the forum, but email is by far the easiest way to communicate with these people.

Posted by Jane, a resident of the Meadow Park neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 12:00 pm

We already have online comments on the articles that appear in the Palo Alto Online Express. The Express seems to cover things promptly and could make an effort to post items on the agenda that haven't been covered, also, perhaps in an added section. The Councilmembers can read those comments.

Posted by pat, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 12:08 pm

On July 1, the PA Daily News wrote: "Council members on the committee said comments on the forum generally have no bearing on their decision-making because they don’t get a copy of the discussions until just before council meetings begin. Council Member Yoriko Kishimoto asked city staff to find a way to forward the comments earlier."

In the above article, Kelly Morariu says, “….for the cost, it seemed reasonable to continue utilizing this forum as another avenue for civic participation.”

This is the problem with the official mind set on spending taxpayer dollars. $5,000 to set up and $200/month to maintain is considered small potatoes – which it is, relatively speaking.

BUT, are the pitiful number of comments worth that investment, especially given that:

1. Most people don’t know Open City Hall exists.

2. Notification of issues is sent out very late relative to when input is required.

3. Participation is miniscule.

4. Council members don’t go online to read the comments, but wait for someone to hand them a printout hours before a council meeting. (So much for greenness.)

5. There already exists a wonderful online forum – this one! – which exemplifies true civic engagement and costs the city nothing. Council members have complained that posters at Town Square are anonymous, but posts on Open City Hall can also be anonymous.

Let’s see how much money the city staff will ask for tonight to publicize Open City Hall and keep it open.

This is just a way for the city to say it's doing something on "Civic Engagement." This is ONE WAY communication, not ENGAGEMENT.

Posted by Ada, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 12:12 pm

I am quite surprised that the PA online forum is considered for a shut down. I find it very very useful in keeping people connected to the community in a major way. Anything from "What to do for Halloween" in PA to "Cut down tress on California Ave" , from "High School volleyball" to "expanding Oregon Expressway" - these are all topics that many new and old residents of PA find very important to discuss with each other.

Posted by pat, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 12:18 pm

Ada,

I think you may be thinking of a different online forum. THe focus of this article is Web Link

Posted by Joe, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 1:13 pm

> which exemplifies true civic engagement ..

Until you find yourself censored by "the establishment." How much censorship goes on on the City Hall on-line forum? Too much goes on here for this to be a "forum of record" for Palo Alto.

Posted by pat, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 2:12 pm

How much censorship goes on at Open City Hall? We don’t know. Comments are reviewed and not posted immediately, so we have no idea what might be cut.

Also, the little blurb on the site describing the issues are not exactly models of full disclosure. For example:

“Should the Council approve the extension of the agreement with the San Mateo County/Silicon Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau (SMC/SVCVB) for the provision of visitorship services as part of the Destination Palo Alto program for the second year of the contract (FY2009-10)?”

Not highlighted is the little matter of cost: $455,000 for visitorship services for the fiscal year 2009 and fiscal year 2010.

You can find that number if you click over to “Read More,” but the cost is a major issue that should be on the first page.

Posted by cieboy, a resident of the Barron Park neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 5:42 pm

I agree with Jane- just use the Palo Alto Online to reduce redundancy.

Posted by Mom, a resident of the Greenmeadow neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 5:50 pm

I was not aware of the existence of the Open City Hall forum until today.

Posted by They know best, a resident of the Embarcadero Oaks/Leland neighborhood, on Nov 2, 2009 at 6:38 pm

Does anyone believe that the council actually reads and/or cares what the public thinks? The council has their own agenda, which is disconnected from the real world. Their idea of civic engagement is telling the populace to sit quietly and let them pursue their agenda since they know what is best for all

Posted by Concerned Mom, a resident of the Palo Verde neighborhood, on Nov 3, 2009 at 8:32 am

I, too, did not know this was available. How about a little more publicity and then let people decide....

Posted by Parent of a Gunn Student, a member of the Gunn High School community, on Nov 6, 2009 at 2:46 am

There's a city online forum?? So very poorly publicized, I've never heard of it until now!!

Posted by Susan, a resident of the Southgate neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 10:52 am

It's incredible to me that the PA Online article doesn't give the url for the open city hall website. I, and apparently a number of others, were unaware of the existence of this resource until now, and PA Online didn't bother to make it accessible.

I agree with Concerned Mom that there should have been/should be much more publicity. The school board, the YMCA, the police, and other entities have the capability of robo-calling households with pertinent public information. Why shouldn't he city council use this method of full-coverage outreach for something as important as this? Taken together with local newspapers, this method could have a profound impact. The publicity could also be more regular, with announcements of new topics to comment on/read about.

And of course, how ridiculous that the city council doesn't get or bother to access the discussions until just before council meetings! I wouldn't expect this level of incompetency, or failure to think things through or to fine tune a system that isn't working, from the council of a highly educated municipality like Palo Alto. I would like to understand how this can happen.

I also agree that this forum or one like it, where actual discussion takes place and questions can be asked and answered, has an important place in citizen participation. Perhaps there could be a service via Palo Alto Online providing regular notice of council agenda items along with the url to Open City Hall. After discussing it here, people could pop over and make a statement on the Open City Hall website.

Now here I am sharing ideas with you all. How do I get this idea in the hands of people who might be able to do something about it?

Posted by Susan, a resident of the Southgate neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 10:53 am

Oops. I misspoke. PA Online does provide a link to the City Hall website in their article. Sorry!

Posted by Like Everyone Else, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 11:01 am

I did not know there was a City Hall Forum either!

Posted by A little knowledge, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 3:17 pm

Pat has it right: "This is ONE WAY communication, not ENGAGEMENT."

The background on the issues is written by city staff, and since most issues are complicated, it is reflects the staff point of view.

So it is a question of whether a little knowledge is better than none at all. Actually, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. That forum gives people the opportunity to vote their prejudices and beliefs, knowing little about the actual issue that is coming up.