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Uploaded: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 4:32 PM

Caltrain safety 'summit conference' Wednesday
Palo Alto and Peninsula agencies to brainstorm on ways to make the Caltrain tracks safer

Posted by asonneman, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Oct 20, 2009 at 6:05 pm

why aren't any of the cameras that we have on almost every intersection in Palo Alto watching these trail crossings. They might do some good.

Posted by midtowner1, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Oct 20, 2009 at 7:27 pm

What a great idea!! I couldn't agree with you more. Installing surveillance cameras may be worth considering. Anything that would save our kids' lives.

Posted by k9390, a member of the Gunn High School community, on Oct 20, 2009 at 7:38 pm

they should put lasers on the openings of wings of the trains. which cause an alarm.

Posted by k9390, a member of the Gunn High School community, on Oct 20, 2009 at 7:40 pm

with the alarms it can bring attention the public, and notifies the police

Posted by Andrew, a resident of another community, on Oct 20, 2009 at 7:43 pm

In regards to the camera's. The reason they don't put them up = money. The city makes money from speeders at intersections, sadly, only lives would be saved by putting cameras up and that does not equal immediate earnings for the city. Messed up I know.

This is only my opinion of course.

Posted by Be realistic, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Oct 20, 2009 at 8:07 pm

Cameras need teams of people to watch them, the City doesn't have the money to hire that number of employees. If someone is determined to kill themselves no cameras in the world are going to stop them.

Posted by Andrew, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Oct 20, 2009 at 8:17 pm

They could put cameras up and add some motion sensors. The alert goes off that something has entered the railway and someone (whomever this responsibility would be given to whether it be the police department, caltrain etc) goes to look at the cameras to see if it is a false alarm and if it isn't call up police to head over there. Most people don't want to kill themselves,they want help. This person probably wanted the attention, I mean look at how they decided to go. If it could avoid or at least deter them from this method it would be one less way for them to do the deed.

Posted by ???, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Oct 20, 2009 at 9:19 pm

We need guards at the crossing, regularly and longterm, until other solutions to make the tracks safer have been found! We owe it to our children. No more pushing responsibility back and forth between caltrain, school and other agencies. Too much has been lost already and it is time to act now!

Posted by Caltrain Commuter, a resident of the Crescent Park neighborhood, on Oct 20, 2009 at 9:46 pm

What good would cameras do? Or guards, for that matter? Someone determined to commit suicide by train will be able to do it. The money spent on fences, gates, and guardrails has been a waste - worse than a waste, because these measures lull people into complacency.

Caltrain should hold the estate or other financially responsible party responsible for damages caused by trespassing on train tracks, including suicide, and Caltrain should post signs announcing that these damages typically exceed $100,000. If this policy makes even one person reconsider, it would be good for all of us.

Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Oct 21, 2009 at 9:13 am
Walter_E_Wallis is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online

Put the camera images on the internet with a number to call and report suspicious activities.

Posted by Really?, a resident of Mountain View, on Oct 21, 2009 at 9:55 am

While I absolutely understand why all of you here are trying so hard to come up with solutions, I don't believe any of you are really thinking them through. Cameras? Whistles or horns? Crossing Guards? Think about these ideas, people. Think them through. They will accomplish nothing. Anyone can access the tracks in areas OTHER than at crossings. Trains run 24 hours per day. Cameras only publicize and glorify the suicide more. Imagine you're a teenager who is depressed and drawn towards the idea of a huge suicide with media coverage, attention, etc. That's why all these teens are choosing the same method in the same place - the attention. Of course, as adults, we know how messed up that train of thought is (no pun intended). But depressed teens don't get that. These are copy cat suicides for a reason. Same method, same place, same schools. Adding cameras, so that people can actually SEE them commit suicide, would add fuel. And where would you put these cameras? Even if they did deter a teen from going to the E. Meadow intersection, they can just choose another, or another, or another. Or not choose an intersection at all. Just walk down the tracks a bit. And audible alarms? If you stood in the tracks to end your life as a train barreled down towards you, would you move aside just because you heard an alarm? no one can stop teens from killing themselves except for themselves, their families, their schools and their communities. THAT'S what needs fixing. THAT'S where you all need to focus your attention. And, if the media would simply stop covering it at all, studies show it would end on it's own because it's the attention they seek. I will say, however, that the idea of fining the families of the survivors might be a good idea. It sounds terrible and cruel at first, but most kids would not want to have their parents loose their house because of them, or all of their savings, or their retirement. Although it may just convince them that train isn't the best method and then they turn to something else, still lethal. Lastly, has anyone looked at how many teens kill themselves via a different method each year in Palo Alto? Perhaps the numbers are no worse than before, but no one knew about it because it happened out of the media spotlight.

Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Oct 21, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Walter_E_Wallis is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online

We Engineers have a saying - Perfection is the enemy of good enough. If we close Meadow, some students might jump off the GG Bridge, run across the freeway at rush hour or wear a Rush Limbaugh t-shirt to school, but the impulse jumper's association would be broken. I do agree that news coverage needs to look within and determine how they might change their policy, but I will bet this incident was on Tweet before the last siren hooted.

Posted by Steve Raney, a resident of the Crescent Park neighborhood, on Oct 21, 2009 at 1:25 pm

proposal: shock-absorbing cow catcher to prevent Caltrain suicides

The Problem

* A series of high schoolers in Palo Alto have committed suicide via Caltrain near Charleston and East Meadow intersections. I am not a psychologist, but I believe these are “dramatic” suicides where less-dramatic suicide methods would not be substituted.

Early Concept

* Goal: “meet” the student in front of the train, cushion some of the impact of a 60 mph locomotive collision, and push the student off the tracks so that they end up bruised, but alive.

* Idea 1: Attach a gymnastics landing pad / gymnastics foam wedge (Web Link) in a “sideways position” to the front of a locomotive. The wedge serves somewhat like a cow-catcher: Web Link.

* Idea 2: (from Jerry Roane) A pre-inflated air bag that leads the train by 100 feet would be able to scoop up the student and lay him/her in a soft bed.

* An “advanced transit inventors web forum” brainstormed some possible solutions: Web Link

Draft Requirements

* The solution should substantially increase the chances of surviving a head-on collision with a 60 mph Caltrain locomotive. The student may be standing or laying on the tracks.

* Before a prototype is built, independently-verified physics calculations should convincingly predict a substantial survival rate increase.

* The solution does not need to address Caltrain collisions with cars that are stuck on the tracks.

* The first prototype should be testable outside of the Caltrain rail environment. Such testing might include attaching the solution to a truck and then crashing into a crash test dummy at high speed.

* The solution must meet the needs of Caltrain to rapidly configure trains. IE the solution might need to attach and detach in two minutes or less with a small amount of Caltrain labor.

* If a crass actuarial value of human life can be made at $2M, then the solution should make a “profit.” IE the cost of both a) the solution applied to all trains and b) the increased Caltrain operating cost should be less than the value of the lives saved.

Funding

* I believe that “typical” methods for funding high visibility designs may be deployed to rapidly obtain funds for prototyping and testing. I believe that the local community is very concerned about this issue and would be willing to contribute. I believe that one of the local papers could publicize a credible design with a paypal donation box.

* Given a successful early prototype, solution implementation funding should be explored with Caltrain and elected officials. Depending on how prevalent commuter rail suicides are elsewhere in the country, national rail funding through the FTA might be made available.

Status:

* I submitted this idea to members of PA/Stanford "professional designer community" last night.

* I've had communication with Caltrain about this. A) Caltrain is undertaking many significant actions to address the problem already. B) Caltrain would need to be convinced of the physics of a cow-catcher solution as early as possible. C) Caltrain has no immediate funding to develop prototypes.

Posted by Walter_E_Wallis, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Oct 22, 2009 at 5:15 am
Walter_E_Wallis is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online

I apologize for misspelling Steve's name above - but there are engineering solutions to the people catcher problem as delineated by me in my response to another critic. I repeat my previous offer to Paly - I will pay $50 to the first team that can drop a watermelon from the tower without is breaking, $50 to the first student who can calculate the speed of the melon at impact, and another $50 to the best essay on the applicability of the findings to the train death problem. I suggest that Caltrain match my offer one hundred fold. They didn't last time I proposed this, they won't this time either.

Posted by relentlesscactus, a resident of another community, on Nov 1, 2009 at 7:15 pm

re: contagioncatchers; you are all high.