Send this story Print this story

Adjust text size

Uploaded: Friday, September 18, 2009, 1:13 PM

Caltrain to return whistles to underneath trains  

Posted by barb, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Sep 18, 2009 at 2:56 pm

What a waste of money. Caltrain is cutting schedules, delaying maintenance and upgrades, etc. because they are short of money. Now they have to waste all this money to appease the NIMBYs. Why can't we have a first class transit system like the ones that work so well in cities around the world?

Posted by Evan, a resident of the Crescent Park neighborhood, on Sep 18, 2009 at 4:29 pm

Seriously? A man was killed this week while his car was stuck on the tracks. Louder horns mean that people have MORE warning that a train is coming. If you want to end the horns and noise, then support electrification/grade separation! That will be safer AND quieter.

Posted by Barb, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Sep 18, 2009 at 4:31 pm

Grade separation == HSR. NIMBYs are fighting that, too.

Posted by Train neighbor, a resident of the Ventura neighborhood, on Sep 18, 2009 at 5:01 pm

Let me get this straight...

1. 2001: Caltrain moved horns to bottom of train due to noise complaints.

2. July 2009: Caltrain horns were not loud enough to meet Fed. standards, so all horns moved from below to top of trains. Web Link

3. Aug 2009: People complained horns were too loud (esp. those living farther away- those of us next to tracks are used to it) so Caltrain modified horns to make them quieter.Web Link

4. Sep. 2009: People STILL complained horns too loud so Caltrain decides to move horns to bottom of trains.

5. Rinse and repeat...

Posted by Brent, a resident of Portola Valley, on Sep 18, 2009 at 5:13 pm

Almost every one of these accidents could have been avoided if the victims had gave a second's consideration to their own mortality before easing onto the tracks. I am saddened for the victims and their loved ones, but the fact of the matter is that these individuals made poor decisions with their own safety, plain and simple. CalTrans shouldn't be faulted for others' failures to employ common sense.

Posted by Juan Trippe, a resident of Menlo Park, on Sep 18, 2009 at 5:20 pm

Let me guess the next step.

Move the hors back and this way Cal Train will not be in compliance with Federal Law?

ok boys and girls what happens when a transportation system is not in compliance with Federal law?

$ hu,mmm,mmm.mm similar to this Web Link

And who do you think will pay? Not Cal Train, you will.

Posted by BobNewhart, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Sep 18, 2009 at 9:58 pm

Posted by Train neighbor, a resident of the Ventura neighborhood, 4 hours ago

Let me get this straight...

1. 2001: Caltrain moved horns to bottom of train due to noise complaints.

2. July 2009: Caltrain horns were not loud enough to meet Fed. standards, so all horns moved from below to top of trains. Web Link

3. Aug 2009: People complained horns were too loud (esp. those living farther away- those of us next to tracks are used to it) so Caltrain modified horns to make them quieter.Web Link

4. Sep. 2009: People STILL complained horns too loud so Caltrain decides to move horns to bottom of trains.

5. Rinse and repeat...

LOL

This is how all things are done in the great state of Cali....

Posted by UR STOOL, a resident of the Meadow Park neighborhood, on Sep 19, 2009 at 5:41 am

OK ...I GUESS THEY ARE GOING BACK TO THE OLD HORNS...(IT MUST BE FALL AND WINTER) LESS PEOPLE OUT...U GUYS SHOULD PUT THEM ON MY HOUSE

Posted by rem, a resident of the Adobe-Meadows neighborhood, on Sep 21, 2009 at 10:57 am

Trains were there FIRST

Appartments and homes came later. People moved into these appartments and homes were WELL AWARE or the trains and the tracks..

Buyer beware!!!!!!!! Support safety - FIRST!!!

I enjoy hearding the horns at Middlefield and East Charleston. That way I know that the cars at the crossing are hearing the horms and it IS MORE SAFER at the CROSSINGS.

It is a SHAME that the governments in this area (city/county/state) does NOT KNOW HOW to say - NO

Posted by PatrickD, a resident of the Barron Park neighborhood, on Sep 21, 2009 at 2:59 pm

Grade separation = no horns + fewer accidents + more reliable, quicker service

Posted by Giovanni, a resident of Menlo Park, on Sep 21, 2009 at 4:56 pm

Rem, I highly doubt that you live within earshot of the Caltrain horn. If you've read the posts, you'll notice that most of the complaints are from residents who have lived next to the tracks for many years without complaint - it's not as if all of a sudden they're surprised that there is a noise associated with the Caltrain horn. Most people who live near the tracks just get used to the horn noise and the slight trembling of their houses when the freight trains roll by late at night. But when the train horn was suddenly increased to such a ridiculously loud volume that it created serious problems for residents, businesses, and also passengers waiting at the station, the people effected were within their rights to complain. I live near the tracks on a street lined with only apartment buildings. There must be 300+ residents on my street who are blasted at all hours by the new horn. Is it really fair that we were not warned of the new, extra-loud train horn when we signed the rental lease? Do we now all need to move? The train is here to serve the people, not to make life miserable; the people and train need to coexist. And, do you really believe that returning the volume to the previous, bearable level will create a safety hazard? The unfortunate man who was recently struck on the tracks had stopped on the tracks in heavy traffic and was trapped - the accident had nothing to do with the volume of the horn. There are signs posted warning motorists not to stop on the tracks and also gates that go down with flashing lights when the train is approaching. I believe that we need grade separation at the busy crossings, but I think it can be done w/out HSR.

Posted by whistle while you work, a member of the Terman Middle School community, on Sep 22, 2009 at 5:51 pm

I have lived by the train tracks since I was born 60+ years ago. My backyard play area backed up to the tracks. My parents petitioned Southern Pacific RR to help pay for cyclone fencing for the safety of all houses along 3rd St. ( now Park Blvd.)

It was fun waiting for the trains to come by in the day time as the neighborhood kids would get together and wave frantically to the engineer, who responded with a smile and wave back. Also it was the time when the engineer pulled his rope to make the whistle sound and it made us all smile. We didn't understand at that time that the sound was a safety issue for the next upcoming train crossing area.

At night the trains would lull me to sleep as our house rattled from the heavily packed box train freight that was being pulled though town.

There are only three open RR crossings in Palo Alto left now. There used to be one at Embarcadero Rd. ( underpass there now) and also one at Page Mill Rd. ( which is closed off as it was replaced by Oregon Expressway underpass). University Ave. also has the underpass crossing.

That leaves Chruchill, East Meadow and Charleston for cars and passenger crossing.

As I see it, those wishing to contribute to the building of more under/over passes would be the one way of eliminating the whistling of the trains whistles.

That way the trains can roll through Palo Alto without any disturbance (except the noise from the click clacking of the wheels.)

Those that can not endure should sell/rent their homes out to hard of hearing people..a win-win situation.

Posted by DZ, a member of the Barron Park School community, on Sep 22, 2009 at 8:20 pm

I am very impressed that people has enjoyed the same train horn for 60 years. But I believe 60 years ago, there were much less people and cars/trains/airplanes around here, and the train, was a thing that represents progress and prospective. The same train still running after all these years, the same horn still sounding the same. But the world moved on, time for us to move on too. What is wrong with a better environment?

Posted by vcgris, a resident of another community, on Sep 24, 2009 at 1:09 pm

I am writing this from Burlingame.

The long and the short of it is: there has not been a noticable change to date! The train comes through Burlingame 45 times a day during the week and 32 times a day on Saturday and 29 times a day on Sunday each time balring this new horn. Add in at least one freight train during the middle of night at least 5 times a week. Do the math. That adds up to approximately 15, 177 times over the course of a year ! Does that qualify as noise pollution ? I do not need to tell you it has become a nuisance.

I live .3 mile (according to Google Maps) perpendicular to the CalTrain tracks. I know people can hear it further from me and I pity anybody who is living closer. This has to impact 10's of thousands of people along the route. I am not the only person annoyed and bothered by this. I have queried neighbors and other people I know with businesses and residences in the proximaty of the CalTrain tracks. They all agree that there has not been a change or, if there was a change made it has not resulted in a lower volume.

Regarding the HSR with grade seperation solution, this comes from a friend in San Carlos that lives about 4 or 5 blocks west of the elevated portion of the tracks: We hear the horns and the roar of the trains passing through. The sound echos like the trains are passing through our back yard. We are 4 blocks west of the tracks. So much for the grade seperation solution.

I have been assured by CalTrain that measures to mitigate this are being taken. Please monitor and lobby for a solution.

Posted by Adam, a resident of Menlo Park, on Sep 26, 2009 at 12:19 am

In reading the many threads on this subject, I've noticed it sure seems to have people falling over themselves to declare their lack of sympathy. "Serves you right for living there, don't like it then move," etc.

Some of those posters sound almost gleeful. What is that about, exactly? There's no shortage of shows like Jerry Springer and Judge Judy on tv, if you're that into exulting over the misfortunes of others.

I think some of the Caltrain engineers are of like mind. Since this furor began, the snappy "tweet and toot" pattern of the regulation is rarely in evidence. What I usually hear instead is several very loong sustained blasts. If there's a conscious message to this pattern, it's something very close to "F___ you."

The problem here isn't residents' unreasoning intolerance of any and all train noise. In fact, virtually every train that _isn't_ run by Caltrain somehow manages to comply with the regulations without sounding like a horde of trumpeting elephants in one's bedroom.

That's probably because there's more to the issue than a decibel measurement. The caltrain horn consists of four, possibly five separate tones, all of them relatively high and quite harsh, sounding a very dissonant chord.

The night-time freight traffic seems to make do with a much mellower, simpler and lower-pitched minor third or tritone. Measured with an SPL meter, it's just as loud (and if you're near/on the tracks the warning is unmistakable). It just doesn't startle/waken/p1ss off everyone within a quarter mile.

All we're after is a win-win solution--one that's already been implemented by every other train company using this rail line.

Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Sep 26, 2009 at 8:46 am

Wouldn't it be more effective to increase the volume of the warning bells on the gates rather than the horns on the trains!

Posted by Pierced Ears, a resident of Menlo Park, on Oct 6, 2009 at 11:22 am

Latest update from Caltrain on October 6, is that the horns will be relocated back to their original positions (at ground level) BY THE END OF NOVEMBER. They apparently can only convert one locomotive or cab-car per day and there are about 50 in the fleet.

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Dunn, Christine <dunnc@samtrans.com>

Date: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Subject: RE: progress update on horn relocation?

Caltrain operates 47 units in lead positions, either locomotives or cab cars that operate in the lead position when in “push” mode. The project to restore the equipment on these 47 units is expected to be completed by the end of November.

Posted by Pierced Ears, a resident of Menlo Park, on Oct 6, 2009 at 4:48 pm

The news update page today on the Caltrain site that followed my email inquiry to Christine Dunn. Web Link

Posted by wary traveler, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:30 pm

From that Caltrain Update Web Link:

"Horns were reconnected on the top of the equipment and immediately reduced to the lowest noise level possible, 98 decibels. Because the horns were on the top of the equipment, 14 feet aboveground, the sound dispersed much more broadly."

There are two important points to understand when considering HSR.

1. The sounds of horns (or steel wheels on steel tracks or bells or diesel freight engines or any other sound a passing train emits) will disperse much more broadly on an elevated wall.

2. The CHSRA has stated that they don't know if the horns will go away when passing through stations. They may follow Caltrain's policy; then again, maybe "only" the Caltrain horns will sound on the elevated walls. Either way, there will be more horns and the sounds will disperse more broadly near stations, especially if the approach to the station is on an elevated berm.

Remember those facts the next time a HSR enthusiast -- or the CHSRA, or even the misinformed media -- tells you that the horns will go away with HSR.

Posted by Resident close to tracks, a resident of Menlo Park, on Oct 10, 2009 at 11:38 pm

I live on the second story and when the horns' volume were increased it became intolerable. I think the engineers who use a long, continuous blare should have to live near it. For those who have not experienced it, you really should -- for a few months -- before you comment on the wimpiness of complaining residents. It is currently at 98 decibels but 90 to 95 decibels is known to cause permanent hearing damage. So, someone, tell me there is a Federal Law that mandates permanent hearing damage to residents along the tracks?

I consider myself very tolerant -- I have lived (and endured) the very non-friendly horns of CalTrain for 9 years now (not the old "hoot, hoot" of fond train memory). But this new horn is invasive, dangerous (to folks hearing), and certainly does not improve safety from the recent deaths on the tracks. So, replace Caltrain with BART? Sound like a great idea if you ask me if Caltrain is simply too stupid to figure that 98 decibels of blaring, startling, ear-damaging noise is not the greatest PR they could promote. Sheeeze!