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Uploaded: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 1:17 PM
Updated: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 9:46 AM

Teen depression forum to be held tonight
Experts to discuss and answer questions about adolescent depression

by Kris Young
Palo Alto Online Staff

Posted by YSK, a resident of the Old Palo Alto neighborhood, on Jun 3, 2009 at 3:57 pm

My daughter, 20, had a good idea. She knew the two Paly kids who committed suicide by train.

We were talking about this and essentially said no offense, yes parents; keep checking in but kids are not always going to want to talk to adults. I asked what then, and her idea, I think it's a good one, is this:

That the talented film classes at Gunn and Paly each make a student generated documentary on these Palo Alto student losses. Her thought was to make it from the perspective of the victim, just one minute after the impulsive act. Sort of like in It's a Wonderful Life... That the kid then wanders around and watches what happens after...and finds out how much her/his decision has changed not only her fate, but the lives of everyone that action touches.

I also had a thought that perhaps once a month, there should be a mental health day at all of the schools. Kids should get a chance in each class on that day, to speak up, share feelings. Maybe in the beginning, if they can't speak for themselves, maybe each read a comment from this and other forums. Maybe actually reading and saying these different things out loud, articulating some of these heart rending statements, sharing these emotions and seeing where others in the community stand on this, would help foster a deeper understanding of the act. Maybe prevent another kid from doing the same thing, if they can actually VISUALIZE the event from beginning to ....well it's never the end for all of us left behind. Only for them. And that's what they need to see.

I know I have faced this particular demon more than once in my own life and at those times, the only thing that kept me from doing the same was thinking about what it would do to my parents, kids, family and friends. Once you really start realizing how momentous that is, suicide is no longer an option. You may still think about it sometimes, but you know you will never do it. Coping mechanisms set in, and life goes on. Some days wonderful, some good, some ok, some crummy, some awful, but always different and worth living.

Posted by Sharon, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Jun 3, 2009 at 4:17 pm

I notice that their are no psychiatrists or MDs of any nature on the panel.

As Depression and Anorexia Nervosa, the main conditions associated with suicide, have a strong genetic component and there are evidence based medical interventions that work, why is this scientific view of the issue not represented?

The problem is more fundamental than educational, sociological and psychological.

It is usually neurological, biological and genetic.

Posted by Rev. Amy Zucker Morgenstern, a resident of the Fairmeadow neighborhood, on Jun 3, 2009 at 4:34 pm

Sharon: Dr. Bruce Bienenstock is referred to above as a psychologist but he is actually an MD. I agree that this part of the picture is important.

Posted by Kris Young, a resident of the Palo Verde neighborhood, on Jun 3, 2009 at 4:43 pm

Thanks Sharon and Amy,

This is Kris Young, reporter for the Palo Alto Weekly. Bruce Bienenstock is a psychiatrist(MD). The change has been made. Thanks for catching the detail.

Posted by Sharon, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Jun 3, 2009 at 5:50 pm

Thanks

I am relieved that the editors have shut down the threads, that was wise.

They may want to( should IMHO ) prune the existing comments more closely,as well as those from the previous Gunn suicide.

Suicide contasion is a real problem.

paloaltoloonline may want to consider developing a "guest book" alternative, the posts on such blogs have a very much more respectful content in memory of the deceased like this Web Link

As you see, any way I feel we agree that reporters and therapist spokespeople need to adopt a very different, evidence based approach to these matters.

Posted by Gun Family, a resident of the Barron Park neighborhood, on Jun 3, 2009 at 6:35 pm

A friend shared this with me today. I hope we can all support this organization in their efforts to educate as many people as possible, about "youth suicide"--

Web Link

The Jason Foundation, Inc. (JFI) is a nationally recognized provider of educational curriculums and training programs for students, educators/youth workers and parents. JFI’s programs build an awareness of the national health problem of youth suicide, educate participants in recognizing the “warning signs or signs of concern”, provide information on identifying at-risk behavior and elevated risk groups, and direct participants to local resources to deal with possible suicidal ideation. JFI’s student curriculums are presented in the “third-person” perspective – how to help a friend. The Jason Foundation, Inc. is a non-profit 501c3.

Our Mission

The Jason Foundation, Inc. is dedicated to the prevention of the "Silent Epidemic" of youth suicide through educational and awareness programs to equip young people, educators / youth workers and parents with the tools and resources to help identify and assist at-risk youth.

Posted by Psychotherapist, a resident of the Downtown North neighborhood, on Jun 3, 2009 at 6:55 pm

As a psychotherapist working primarily with suicidal teens for many years, I want to address an issue that may be misrepresented - even though there are evidence based interventions that have success, no particular method can claim complete prevention of such sad events.

There are a multiplicity of factors involved, all of which operate as result of the transactional nature of events. Suicide is a very unfortunate outcome which is reached through so many varied pathways that no consistent set of clinical features can serve as an accurate predictor.

Rather than think of it as suicide contagion or copycat events, which some indeed may be, do we stop to wonder how many teens are in such emotional pain that they would even consider staging a similar very effective manner of dealing with their distraught lives?

Are we creating environments, policies, friendships, relationships that give teens reasons to live? How do we go about developing these?

Are we giving our teens and young adults enough reasons to want to live, to want to develop lives which are full and worth living?

Posted by sad, a resident of the Old Palo Alto neighborhood, on Jun 3, 2009 at 9:28 pm

Psychotherapist,

"Are we giving our teens and young adults enough reasons to want to live, to want to develop lives which are full and worth living?"

if we respected religion more, maybe there would be a chance, instead it's off limits in schools. In Europe you get to study your religion as part of the curriculum. Not once have I seen that the schools are bringing in a chaplain, a rabbi, only the counselors and doctors.

Posted by Concerned Parent, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Jun 3, 2009 at 9:44 pm

Adding to what Psychotherapist said above, the following research student is enlightening:

Web Link

"Adolescent males who had contemplated suicide and who attended schools in which the friendship network was dense and interlocked were much less likely to attempt suicide than were comparable boys who attended socially disconnected schools."

For boys, availability of guns (means to carry out) was also a factor.

"For girls, being socially isolated from peers or having intransitive friendships (substantially increased the odds of thinking about suicide. Additionally, being in a school with dense social networks lowered the risk of suicidal ideation for girls."

Much research exists showing a relationship between size of schools and the social and academic environments. From the US Department of Education web site: "In recent years, ... research has suggested that small and moderate size high schools foster more positive social and academic environments than large high schools" (By "large" they mean more than 900 students.) Small and moderate size high schools have more community and denser social networks.

Our high schools have been growing larger and larger. Gunn now has 2000 students. Research shows that at 2100 students and larger, learning suffers considerably, even in high socioeconomic areas. There is more bullying and less social interconnectedness in larger schools. Larger schools are more bureaucratic, putting more stress on our students. We can't very well get rid of the train (means to carry out). But we can take decisive steps to improve our school social and learning environments.

When Noreen Likens said, "Please reassure your student (sic) that their health and welfare is much more important than anything else right now. We stand ready to help and support you in any way we can in the difficult task of helping students navigate these teen years." -- Did she really mean that? More important than ANYTHING else?

Is the health and welfare of our kids important enough to her that she would reexamine her and Kevin Skelley's agenda to make Gunn and Paly very large schools with our Measure A money? Is this issue important enough for them to at least be open with the community about this agenda and see what the community wants (e.g., discussing whether to open Cubberley as a choice high school and potentially normalize Gunn and Paly to 1500-1700 students each instead -- or even compare the costs and benefits against the current plans to enlarge the schools)?

Renovating Cubberley may even turn out to be cheaper than putting a lot of new multistory buildings at Gunn and Paly. Also, research shows that while larger schools can provide economies of scale in operation, at some point, that benefit disappears and larger schools are actually less efficient. And is this really the overriding issue for this community that prioritizes the quality of our schools? Are these local tragedies enough of a wake up call to also prioritize the social environments and the factors that improve them?

Do we care enough to put our money where our mouths are and consider taking steps to prioritize community and social environments at our schools? Rather than "stand there and look down at the ground," as the Weekly reported of Skelley's reaction to the news of this latest tragic loss, perhaps taking positive steps to improve our high school environments is a more constructive response.

I am so sorry for this family's loss. For the sake of our kids, I hope we will all really consider doing more than just express our regret.

Posted by YSK, a resident of the Old Palo Alto neighborhood, on Jun 4, 2009 at 11:47 am
YSK is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online

I have read every comment on each article and just feel so much helpless frustration. The comments on here and in news reports made by students keep saying something is wrong, but when others try to identify a possible issue, such as overwhelming school pressure, they say no, thats not it.

I think it's probably a whole lot of things all muddled up into one big ball of confusion. From physical realities such as hormones to life realities like what can feel like the scary and grim world we are living in right now. What you kids have to understand is it's as overwhelming for the adults in your life who want to help you as it can be for you. You want help, give us something! People have been throwing out ideas in an attempt to understand, not label, quantify or blame. What we need our younger people to do is to attempt to articulate more specific pressures or issues causing depression. It could just be the smallest niggling problem that seems like it doesn't matter yet somehow does. Does so much it becomes a daily part of your life. Any attempt to articulate and identify a problem is to bring it out into the open and thereby open it up for discussion, solution or even just alleviation of a bit of stress. Ten small seemingly intangible innocuous things can bond together to feel like one large insurmountable problem. Start identifying different issues and working on those. Tell someone else your concerns. Let them help. Tell your parents, try it. We were young once too, we know what it is like to be young and uncertain. We are you just older with hopefully a few more coping skills we can share. We are not mindreaders and we are not prescient. It's not like when you were little and your needs were clear. You are now older with your own personalities and situations unique to you. We aren't deliberately letting you down, we just can't address problems of which we aren't aware! We can't possibly know you enough to help you unless you help us to know you. Even just a little...and don't worry. We will still love you and care for you. Problems don't make you a freak, they make you human. We want to help!

Posted by nesrray, a resident of the College Terrace neighborhood, on Jul 21, 2009 at 1:39 pm
nesrray is a member (registered user) of Palo Alto Online

Hey folks, I recently found very interesting website about depression and anxiety,

i really found a lot of good information, I think it will be useful for you too, cheers!

Web Link

Depressiono.com website is dedicated to inform people about depression illness and anxiety: how to treat, science researches, depressed people stories and more!

I hope this helps to You!