A bicyclist who was struck and killed in Palo Alto on Aug. 15 apparently ran a stop sign when he collided with a car, Palo Alto police have determined.
Eugene Conroy, 73, of East Palo Alto, was riding his bike at about 9:40 a.m. at the intersection of Greenwood and Hutchinson avenues that morning when the accident occurred. He sustained major injuries and was transported to a hospital. He died the following day, according to police.
An investigation by Palo Alto Police Department’s Specialized Traffic Accident Reconstruction (STAR) Team determined that Conroy did not stop at the stop sign while traveling east on Greenwood. The driver of a 1993 Nissan Altima was traveling north on Hutchinson, which does not have a stop sign, when the car struck Conroy in the intersection, police said at the time. The driver was not injured.
Police spokesman Lt. Zach Perron said on Wednesday that investigators determined Conroy was at fault for not stopping at the stop sign. In California, bicyclists are required to come to a full stop at stop signs, he said.
“It’s a very unfortunate circumstance any time someone loses their life,” Perron said, noting that obeying the law is what will give everyone the best chance of avoiding a collision.
“Intersections are dangerous places. Any time people are on opposing paths, there’s a danger, whether a vehicle, a bicycle or a pedestrian. That’s why these laws exist. Traffic safety is everyone’s responsibility,” he said, adding that many accidents also occur because of speeding.
Palo Alto police officers ticket bicyclists who violate the stop-sign law the same as they do when motorcyclists and drivers break the law, Perron said.
Is there any video evidence that the cyclist failed to stop? There is also a non-four-way stop intersection in my neighborhood and cyclists run that stop sign all the time, in the night, with no light or reflective devices. But this is not the right reason to hit and kill a cyclist. A metal machine with 150,000 watts should not be treated equally as a flesh machine with 150 watts.
No surprise. Bicyclists seem to think they are above the law.
Given the prevalence of driving above the posted speed limit, drivers think they are equally above the law.
I’m very sorry this happened, but also wonder if vehicle speed was a contributing factor.
Hundreds of students cross Middlefield where the posted speed is 25. The average speed there is 35mph with many driving 40 or faster. Bring back traffic enforcement!
Please differentiate how bikes are any different than cars with regards to obeying road laws. My observations of the average speeds and lack of turn signals and “last 3 cars” red light running, and average speed, and rolling of stop signs, and average speed, well, I don’t see bikes being the biggest problem on the road.
Just showing the full picture for you to look at and now comment on.
“A metal machine with 150,000 watts should not be treated equally as a flesh machine with 150 watts.”
When the direction of each of them are from 3 pounds of human brain, yes they should be.
Stop means STOP period
Of course I mourn the loss of anyone’s life on our streets. I must say that in Los Altos and Los Altos Hills, I rarely see bikers stop for STOP signs. I have even seen them run red lights…often. Yes, many car drivers do “rolling stops” (and that is VERY stupid and wrong…but at least they slow down to a crawl)but that is different than just blowing through a sign as though it wasn’t there. Bikers: don’t try to justify your behaviors by pointing the finger at others. Drivers, bikers: let’s all share the roads using the same rules–no fudging–for everyone’s safety. For all the smart people in our communities, saving a few seconds by disregarding traffic laws is downright stupid.
Why no name of the driver?
The article and police statement suggests that a car driver would be entitled to run over any cyclist they observe breaking a stop sign law. Indeed, there are likely some car drivers that will draw that conclusion from this, they can scare, scrape, or hit a cyclist that fails to *completely stop* at stop sign maybe just to “teach them a lesson”.
Scary stuff.
“A metal machine with 150,000 watts should not be treated equally as a flesh machine with 150 watts.”
When the direction of each of them are from 3 pounds of human brain, yes they should be.
———————-
Based on this argument, pedestrian would also need to obey the stop sign and not given any privilege on the street. Let’s ticket them.
The two-way stops around here are pretty dangerous, even for cars.
We don’t prevent people from parking their SUVs right next to the corner, and you have to pull into the intersection to even *see* whether or not someone is coming the other way, both for cars and bicycles.
I’d really prefer if we just did away with two-way stop signs, or made them safe by forcing vehicles to park far enough that the sight-lines let you see a hundred or more feet down the road, instead of something like 25 feet…
bikes are supposed to obey the same laws as cars, so a stop sign means stop. Period . Pedestrians have the right of way at intersections, with or without marked crosswalk.
The amount of ignorance in the comments, except for Be Positive, is absolutely astounding for what’s supposed to be a highly educated town – Palo Alto. You all act like you’ve never heard of the California Vehicle Code. Many of you are just spouting off in total ignorance of any facts whatsoever, even though they’re available in the article. I hope the DMV takes away your licenses before you hurt someone.
Bikes running stop signs. Hmmm. Everywhere.
Police enforcement re bikes on busy routes for children to schools, nil. Police citing drivers around schools? Yep.
Car hits bicyclist when bike runs stop sign? Peddlers up in arms. Follow the law. Teach the law. Enforce the law.
Stop.
I get that the biker didn’t stop, but I wonder whether the driver could have been more watchful. Did he not see the bicyclist? Did he try to stop? The article doesn’t say much more than cyclist at fault.
Palo Alto, while self-proclaimed a cyclist friendly city, has many traps such these 2-way stops. These traps combine poorly with clueless drivers, often in a rush, very often checking their phones. Let’s not delude ourselves, Palo Alto is not a cyclist- friendly city.
Hi everyone,
The law actually states that the vehicle that is in a position to avoid an accident is the vehicle responsible for the accident.
Given the risks posed to bikers, and — yes — pedestrians at 2-way stop sign intersections, it is hard to believe that the police came to this conclusion.
Under the law, even if the bicyclist did not stop, the car still had a legal obligation to stop and avoid the accident.
I am baffled by this conclusion. I hope that the family of the cyclist appeals this and sues the driver under the civil law.
Think what you want about what technically is “legal” (and again I believe most of you are wrong on the law), morality is pretty clear here: a car can cause a heck of a lot more damage than a bike, so drivers have a MORAL (in addition to legal) responsibility to avoid hitting bikers, since doing so can kill bikers a lot more easily than such a collision would cause any harm to drivers.
BTW if Palo Alto were serious about avoiding these types of life-destroying accidents, then it needs to invest in better, more segregated bike lanes, as well as a system of bridges and/or tunnels like so many cities in Europe have achieved. We are pathetically in the dark ages.
As a parent of two children who bike to school and back, and to friends homes’ and activities every day, I implore drivers to be more cautious on the road. We work so hard to keep our neighborhoods family-friendly. So let’s treat our streets as the children-paths they are, and not like highways.
Thank you for helping keep our streets safe for everyone!!
This is a very sad story and the death of a bicyclist or anyone on our roads is something we are sorry about, of course.
However, every accidental collision of any type should be a learning situation and we must all heed the warnings from any such event.
There is a lot we do not know. Did the vehicle brake but not in time? Did the vehicle swerve? Was there other traffic that perhaps prevented the vehicle braking or swerving? Was there sun/shade issues?
The important point that this report makes is that the bicyclist was at fault by not stopping at a stop sign. Bikes are vehicles and as such the stop sign is for them as well as other vehicles using the road. Two way stops, four way stops are very different and it is often difficult to tell if an intersection is two way or four way, but it is irrelevant to the fact that if someone fails to stop at a stop sign they are likely to be in the wrong when a collision occurs. To change all 2 way stops to 4 way stops is a ridiculous remark reminiscent of the time when cars had to have a man with a flag walking in front.
Bike education needs to improve for all ages. Kids, parents and all others on bikes should be made more aware that they have to obey all traffic rules whether they are to do with stopping, being visible with lights, and riding on the right side of the road. These are the primary safety laws when it comes to bike violations on our roads.
So sad that something like stopping at a stop sign could have prevented a death.
@Scared and Educated Mom
I’m confused by your disbelief that the police concluded the bike was at fault. You state that the vehicle that can avoid the accident is vehicle at fault.
1. Bike didn’t stop. Could have avoided the accident if the bike stopped. Fault = bike’s.
2. Perhaps, car tried to stop, couldn’t stop in time. In this case the car couldn’t avoid the accident. According to your determination of fault, since the accident couldn’t be avoided by the car, it’s not the car’s fault. Fault potentially the bike’s.
Disbelief and bafflement, overstated.
Having walked by the intersection the morning after the accident, I could not see even the slightest skid mark that would otherwise indicate that the driver braked. The white chalk markings drawn by police showed that the bicyclist was dragged for 100 or so feet after being hit. Bystanders said a group of people had to physically lift the car off the bicyclist and his bike. Given those circumstances, I find it hard to believe the driver was going the speed limit and paying attention to the road. Why is no name, or even age of the driver provided? An earlier article said he was in “his 70s,” which could mean many different things. The intersection is a very quiet one, with few cars passing through. This is disconcerting and very sad for the bicyclist and his family.
It is a quiet street and visibility is sufficient, even if you were to run the stop sign (I know, I’m one of “those” bikers). It appears the car’s speed was probably above the posted limit. Or, perhaps the reaction time was not good. The stop sign warns that the other direction does not have a stop sign. It is sad. The biker made a critical mistake, at a busy time of day, with less than perfect response from the driver.
BTW, in many states bikers can legally treat stop signs as yield signs and red lights as stop signs. Either way though, good judgment is a prerequisite.
Lots of speculation and finger pointing. What do we know for sure (if the police are to be believed): The biker didn’t stop. “But for” that fact (and I see examples of it every day), none of this would have happened. Some choose to speculate about the driver’s speed and his/her attempts (or not) to avoid the collision and the phase of the moon, but the triggering event was the biker not stopping. Period. Bikers: this is a sad event, but please learn from it that disregarding the law is dangerous and dumb. Quit using this event to toss blame at others with unrelated facts or views.
“An investigation by Palo Alto Police Department’s Specialized Traffic Accident Reconstruction (STAR) Team determined that Conroy did not stop at the stop sign while traveling east on Greenwood. “
Experts determined the fault here…but dont let that stop you from drawing wild conclusions as to what really happened.
Wow, all this supposition and speculation and not only that but many continue with it after experts and officials have come out with FACTS.
The cyclist blew through a stop sign. He paid dearly for it. And even worse, there is a very poor driver out there who has to live with the stupid action of someone else. I feel for the driver more.
I’m going to ask again…why are we citizens not entitled to know the name of the driver of the car who killed Mr. Conroy? Could it be that a dead man from East Palo Alto isn’t entitled to the same “privacy concerns” by authorities as a living male driver from Palo Alto? I bet if you find the name of the driver…you’ll have a story.
@mvresident2003, “even worse” in reference to the driver’s supposed plight in comparison to a man who lost his life… Please spare us all of your complete idiocy.
If the driver did nothing wrong wrong, there is no reason to share his name.
Wow the witch hunt begins (seems to be a ‘thing’ in PA), it is very sad that a man lost his life because he ignored a stop sign while cycling, but if the story is accurate why is the motorist in the wrong? Why is it assumed that car was above the speed limit? If a driver is at or under the speed limit and a cyclist blatantly disregards the rules of the road why should the driver be held responsible?
So based on many of these comments it seems a cyclist can flaunt the rules of the road, and the driver is meant to have his head on a swivel so he can look in all directions at the same time.
I bicycle everywhere – I do not own a car. I appreciate the FACT that the law awards me the privilege of being a vehicle with the rights associated thereof. It also requires I take the responsibility associated with it. Stop at stop signs. Stop at red lights. Obey the speed laws.
The law of gross tonnage states that the heavier vehicle always has the right-of-way. Legality has nothing to do with it, especially when you end up injured or worse. If my fellow cyclists stopped at stop signs – fine. But they do not. It is the rare cyclist who stops, signals or follows the MOST BASIC rules of the road.
That being said, recently I have noted that automobile drivers are behaving in a (rapidly) deteriorating manner and making roadways increasingly hazardous. Just remember the gross tonnage law cited above and be careful out there.
This is an epidemic in Palo Alto. I saw a boy on his way to Paly who flew through a stop sign on Emerson this morning. He was almost hit by a car that did not have a stop sign. He did not look or slow down at all. This is a regular occurrence, and not just teens. I see adults doing this regularly as well. STOP means stop!
This conversation does not reflect well upon our community. A man is dead. He was someone’s son and may have been someone’s beloved husband, father, brother, uncle, teacher or best friend. He was a human being, he is gone, and he was killed by a person who either could not stop or did not stop when he entered a peaceful residential intersection.
The police’s decision of fault is important but it is not determinative. If Eugene’s survivors have money (and we don’t seem to know anything about Eugene), they may seek an additional investigation, or they may sue in civil court, whose evidentiary rules do not require a police finding of fault. The fact that the driver carried Eugene 100 feet before coming to a stop may be an important piece of evidence in this civil suit. Although we don’t know who the driver is, I have to imagine that Eugene’s survivors do.
I wish that more people could see here that, regardless of any police determination, it’s just obvious common sense that a collision between a car and a bicycle is not an even match, and that the bike is going to lose here. This is why we as drivers need to be adamant about the possibility of a cyclist crossing in front of us at any moment — and whether or not we are found to be at fault legally, we have an ETHICAL obligation to do our best not to kill other people, even by accident. Cars can kill other people — especially children and the elderly.
Personally, while I seek no vengeance or criminal retribution here, I do hope that the driver of the car considers driving less often, as it could be that he no longer can drive safely. I don’t know what is the truth here, but I hope he takes it upon himself to think hard about this — if his insurance company does not force him to do so. Driving is not a right –it is a responsibility.
Most of all, I beg and implore fellow community members to show some heart for the survivors of the victim. The tenor of this conversation is so cruel, I feel like many of you would show more remorse had it been a family pet that was killed rather than a human being.
“The tenor of this conversation is so cruel, I feel like many of you would show more remorse had it been a family pet that was killed rather than a human being. “
What you’re seeing is the beginnings of the backlash caused the Cyclist Agenda pushed forward by unelected Josh Mello administration.
Josh Mello has to go. Now.
There is a reason why they call it an accident. There is a lot of blame being tossed about and the suggestion of a lawsuit~how will that make any of this better? God forbid any of us be in the position of either of these people. I would at least hope that people would show a little more grace and compassion then what is being displayed here.
Our society is litigious, legal action is viewed as the solution to everything, nothing is an ‘accident’. The only ones who really win big are the attorneys, most of whom live in towns like Palo Alto. If the driver was at fault, he should be prosecuted, if not let it be.
Many years ago a cousin who was a city truck driver did not see a boy on a bike who rode in back of his reversing truck. The boy was killed. Clearly not the driver’s fault but my cousin carried that with a heavy heart his entire life, he never got over it. I suppose today the boy’s family would sue him, the city and anyone else remotely involved.
Sincerest condolences to the family of the deceased.
The emotion of this comment thread has been slowly drifted toward the classical “us vs them” scenario. Fact: many cyclists run stop signs in Palo Alto. Fact: some of them are really careless. (Maybe, I am not totally sure) Fact: poor Eugene ran the stop sign. Some people here quickly come to a conclusion: so he deserves the consequence, which is death. If you break any rule/law and got in car’s way, the cars would then have the license to kill. Today is the stop sign. In the future it would be the light, reflective jacket, hand gesture, or anything that fails to remind the distracted drivers. It is not too hard to fault the cyclists.
So many car drivers and cyclists around here drive so poorly, it is unbelievable: go when they shouldn’t stop out of the blue for no reason, turn without signaling, go right on a red even though someone with a green is coming, make a right turn out of the left lane, etc. Since they are too young to really know this, I’ve taken to pointing out to my kids on the way to school when someone violated rules both on bikes and in cars. Some days on the short ride there can be a dozen. I also point out when I have stopped at a sign and very carefully looked right and left and looked again and start to go and a bike pops out of nowhere from behind a car or a tree and I nearly did not see them before going. This is a big problem in the DT neighborhoods with it’s many two way stops. I point out when we are driving in the morning and the sun is at an almost blinding angle. I do this so they realize they are the only ones who can (somewhat) control that they make it to school or their friend’s and back again, and every time they take off on their bikes I remind them to stop even if they don’t have to and make sure they have eye contact with the driver and can tell that driver saw them and will stop. And lastly when these horrible accidents like this one happen, I tell them about it. This guy was not riding Alma at rush hour, he was in a sleepy neighborhood. We can put blame wherever but the cyclist won’t win. Many car drivers are not paying attention, many cyclists don’t either, and sometimes there is just a bush or tree in an unfortunate spot blocking the view. We all need to pay more attention. We were taught “defensive driving”, we also need to teach and practice “defensive cycling.” And please, cyclists, if you ride at night don’t do it in a black outfit with no light or just a small reflector on your rim. Nobody’s vision is good enough to see you. RIP Mr. Conroy
Wow. This conversation is sad. It baffles me when people focus more on blame than compassion. A man was killed while riding his bicycle after running a stop sign. This doesn’t mean he DESERVED such a harsh consequence of a brief action that most who cycle has done at one time or another. It is a sad, sad accident that took a life too soon and caused immeasurable pain for his family, friends, and community. They will everyone’s compassion and support. What they don’t need is conjecture, blame, or endless attempts to determine fault.
The driver of the car, according to the police investigation, did nothing wrong, but I am sure he struggles tremendously with guilt and grief. How could he not? Wouldn’t you? He also is in need of our compassion and support. The accident will play over and over again in his mind and he will have much healing to do. Please, show compassion. There’s already way too much anger and blame in our world.
To Beenthere…it has been determined that the driver was not at fault in this unfortunate accident. Why are you so obsessed with knowing his name and referring to it as a killing? One could argue that Mr. Conroy may have wanted to commit suicide by riding into the path of a motor vehicle, thus killing himself. You would then have to speculate why he chose Palo Alto instead of East Palo Alto. Would you then still need to know the name of the driver? What if the driver had been from East Palo? Would you still need to know their name? I’ll wager that if the name of the driver was revealed the only “story” you’d find would be that of a deeply remorseful man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Questions of blame aside, we cyclists should ponder this bit of wisdom from “Man of La Mancha:”
“Whether the rock hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the rock, it’s going to be bad news for the pitcher.”
I am sorry for the cyclist and his family.
A car vs bike. The car will always win. But we’re talking about a human who controls the bike and car. We don’t know the specifics but I must also say, I have seen many bikes not completely stop. I can’t read the bikers minds I have seen do this, but some really do think they are cars themselves.
I’m sorry, but it’s the truth.
You have my deepest condolences
Juan
Driving home from doing chores in the late afternoon or early evening, I often witness these “techie” cyclists ignoring stop signs and even traffic lights (which they seem to think they can time vav cars’ patterns). Their lack of lane awareness is another hazard. Their biggest problem is their arrogant assumption of “privilege”.
So over time, my default thinking the driver probably the cause of a collision has switched to knowing cyclists are the real hazard.
We are all PEOPLE using the road. Whether we walk, or bike or drive, I hope we will observe the law, watch out for each other, behave considerately.
When tragedy occurs, I hope we will be kind online. When people die they leave loved ones behind who had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident. The family of this bicyclist has suffered a terrible loss, and it must cut deeply to hear their loved one publicly lambasted. I suspect the driver is also struggling with feelings of remorse–wondering what he might have done differently. Do we really need to second guess their motives? This kind of incident is terrible for everyone involved.
Be careful out there. Let’s treat our fellow citizens the way we’d like to be treated on the road, online, and elsewhere –and we will all be better for it.
When I bike, I don’t come to a complete stop. That’s just not reality. The effort is high to stop and restart at every sign. I’m not trying to be “above the law” but that’s simply doesn’t make sense. If it’s clear, you go. You can judge it all you want (as I’m sure many of you will) but that’s just a fact that won’t change. Not for me. Not for most cyclist with any common sense.
That intersection is wide open. I don’t see any obstructions. 9:40AM so visibility was ok? How fast was the driver going? Was the driver distracted? Not blaming anyone as both sides should be aware (esp. the cyclist, since they lose the battle 99% of the time) but I’m not getting the full picture from this article.
Tragic accident. Both parties should have been more aware. It’s a residential area, w/ low speeds.
In the six years that I biked to work and back daily, I was hit and injured THREE times.
EVERY time it was by a large car, the driver of which was inattentive: one was texting and swerved too far to the right and sideswiped me at 35 mph in a residential neighborhood; one was on his cellphone, talking, and ran a stop sign, making an illegal left turn into me; one was fiddling with his blue tooth and ran a stop sign, hitting me broadside.
All were hit and runs, two claimed they didn’t realize they’d hit me!
Agree with 38 year resident. There is no reason to ruin the driver’s reputation and it’s good that the media has not disclosed the name. I can’t believe BeenThere is actually blaming the driver when it wasn’t his fault. The life of the driver is now affected forever and because of irresponsibility of the bicyclist.
a few years ago I was almost hit in downtown Palo Alto by a bicyclist who ran a red light (I had the green light and walk sign). He yelled that I was stupid as I jumped out of his way. I complained about this in person to the then Traffic Lt. and she told me “we used to do enforcement for that, but it just made people mad, so we stopped”. I hope that is no longer that attitude. I have almost hit bicyclist who have failed to stop at stop signs when I had the right of way. Now I just assume they are not going to stop and slow down or stop myself.
@another concerned mom, yes, I said it. Not a PC comment but I stand by it, I feel for the poor driver who is living with this horrific situation thru what the investigation says was not his fault.
I’m tired of being PC. Since when have we become so obsessed with excusing behaviors, not standing up for and being strong for personal responsibility? Is it sad he lost his life? Absolutely….its devastating to his family, it’s heart-breaking, it’s horrible.
But I still feel even more sad for the poor driver….someone mentioned the car went 100 ft before stopping implying this is a long way. Really? Chalk out 100ft on the street, this is NOTHING, he had to have stopped as quickly as he could. And for everyone blaming the driver for not being more careful, next time you are innocently driving the speed limit down a nice quiet residential street and you come upon an intersection with the stop sign on the cross traffic truly imagine someone blowing thru it and think: would you be able to stop? And now do that for EVERY SINGLE INTERSECTION you drive thru EVERY SINGLE DAY.
He blew the stop sign. He paid dearly for it, I feel deeply for the poor driver, I can’t even imagine what he/she is living with.
Are you all implying that PA police investigation was faulty? It appears that you think that police always side with drivers. Well people…
@sad I’m re-reading your comments, you say “ he was killed by a person who either could not stop or did not stop when entering a peaceful residential intersection”.
The driver didn’t stop because he DIDNT HAVE A STOP SIGN.
You say “we have an ethical obligation not to kill other people even by accident”.
WTH are you inferring? Do you think the poor driver did it on purpose?
You go on to imply the driver should stop driving because of incompetency. How you can turn this around from the actual facts is scarier than this even happening in the first place and gets back to my previous comment about this obsessive excusing of behaviors.
The deceased blew a stop sign. He cause an innocent person great stress, sorrow and who knows what else. I can’t even imagine.
On California Ave, at Ash and at Birch, more bicyclists blow through the intersections than stop. I saw one recently breeze through, sitting up, no hands, looking intently at his phone. I guess it was an important text, or a critical Facebook post.
Palo Alto government wants Palo Alto to be THE biking city. We have hundreds and hundreds of bicyclists who follow no rules. Palo Alto has no traffic enforcement dept for cars, so it will be a cold day in Hell when they do any enforcement on bicyclists. Just pulling a sting operation one day for red lights for motorists could net enough money to hire another police office. (slight exaggeration) Anyway, I do not want to hit a pedestrian or a bicyclist, so I drive with that in mind all the time .. especially at night with the black-clad, light-less, on the sidewalks or streets bicyclists. I have my eyes peeled, before any turn, I look every which way through windows, side mirrors, rear view mirror, turning head, etc. It’s slow getting anywhere, but as I said, I do not want to hit anybody. I suggest everybody else take these precautions.
And on a side note, if you should find yourself driving around the Shoreline area near the Googleplex, make sure you reduce speed to 5mph, there are Googlers on those Google bikes zipping around that area with very little regard for traffic, most without helmets. I guess intelligence does not translate to common sense.
Cars run stop signs and red lights just as often. There are accidents on Middlefield and Montrose (where Cubberly Community Center is) almost once a month. Cars running red light, every single time. I once saw a driver speeding away from there, after running red light and hitting another car (probably didn’t go very far, he broke the radiator and coolant was gushing out of it, hopefully police found him). I was once almost T-boned by some driver running red light at high speed in that same neighbourhood (I had kids with me in the car when it happened). So, please. No “cyclists are bad, drivers are angels” talk.
What I would really like to know is how the police figured out cyclist run a stop sign? The driver told them so? The only other witness was his friend/wife/whatever in the same car? Like when that truck driver killed a women in San Francisco recently, and police blamed the cyclist only based on driver’s story? Until friends of the cyclist went to business owners and found a video showing the opposite happening?
Recently heard about a maneuver called The Dutch Reach which addresses the issue of cyclists getting knocked of their bikes when the door of a parallel parked car is opened into traffic. It is a great idea. Something the DMV should incorporate into new driver training. All you need to do is open the driver door with your right hand, forcing you to turn enough to see anyone approaching. Easy, cheap and effective. Please share!!
See video.. https://youtu.be/GzIf80eSfCg
Cmon wrote:
“Cars run stop signs and red lights just as often.”
Not even close.
“What I would really like to know is how the police figured out cyclist run a stop sign? “
The thing speaks for itself i believe. either they didnt stop or proceeded into traffic when it was not safe. Car didnt have a stop sign. If the bike finds itself in front of a car in this situation, its the bikers fault
To 38 Year Resident and Right…lets all agree that nobody on this thread has taken the time to go down to PAPD and formally requested a police report. Therefore, 99% here is opinion and speculation. Having been hit by a car in Woodside and seriously injured I know something about the local police and how investigations work (or don’t). Police investigations are very much random and discretionary, meaning, if the first police officer on the scene is savvy he/she will try and preserve evidence (to include requesting blood alcohol testing of driver/bicyclist). If the police officer thinks there’s no reason…no test! Unfortunately, the officer cannot interview the deceased..so, its a drivers word against any possible forensic evidence to the contrary. Why do I harp on the driver’s identification? Simple, I’ve never seen a local story covering a bicycle fatality where the drivers name was not included…so, I smell something fishy.
“A metal machine with 150,000 watts should not be treated equally as a flesh machine with 150 watts.”
That says it all. Obey those STOP signs, bikers. You are way overmatched in the physics department, and that driver may not be able to stop his metal in time to save your entitled little bippie.
Sure, it seems the cyclist was partly at fault for running the stop sign. But I simply cannot fathom how the driver dragged the cyclist and his bike under the car for a couple hundred feet if he was driving the 25 mph speed limit. The lack of skid marks shows the driver did not brake at all, and accordingly was either not paying attention or has the diminished reaction time of an elderly driver. Cars stop on a dime at that slow rate of speed, so something is off. Condolences to the family.
I believe we are curious about the driver for several reasons:
1. Paper said ‘in his 70’s….. what if that is really close to 79?
2. Driver’s neighbor did not see accident but stated ‘he always drove very slowly’ in the neighborhood. So typical question…how’s his health, eyesight and reaction time?
2. Neighbors on that street corner who also did not witness accident but came out quickly, said cyclist AND bike were underneath the car after being dragged. Several men had lifted the old model Nissan up off the body & bike and rolled it to curbside.
3. No skid marks at intersection but everyone was clear the body & bike had not been moved, only the car.
So I imagine driving slowly down this quiet street at 9:40am how does the cyclist and bike end up being dragged underneath the car?
So don’t be haters just because we still have questions about obvious details not yet given out.
@Curmudgeon
Bikes should be given an intermediate status between pedestrian and cars. The current status gives bikes a lot of burden (follow the same rule as cars!) with very unrealistic physical constraint (1/1000 of power).
As an everyday bike rider, I follow all the rules. (even the dreaded stop signs) I follow them just to save my own ass because I know drivers out there are usually unqualified, not because I think they are reasonable. They are not.
Aw Curmudgeon, I knew Gene Conroy for many years He grew up in Mtn View, joined the Marines. Moved to Palo Alto and lived his life here well over 40 years. Retired 10 yrs ago and was set enjoying his life with a love of exercise and good health. He rode his bike and did power walking every week through our streets. Jogged on the beach at Half Moon Bay once a week, and ran in the hills of Hillsborough where the family had a home, for over 35 years. BTW those of you noting his address as East Palo Alto, that is a matter of zip code. He lived on the more ‘respectable’ side of 101. He worked hard and was loved by many so I must correct your thought that maybe he felt he was an ‘entitled little bippie’ not ;(
I too stopped at the intersection after the first newspaper reported it. I started a conversation with the mailman and he too knew Gene! Said he saw him every week riding or walking the neighborhood.
That’s all I can say now, he was one of us, without an attitude. It sounds like it was just an awful accident.
Not sure why some here are pushing for the publication of personally identifying information about the driver, as he has been cleared in this incident. He is a private citizen and is entitled to his right to privacy. Unless or until he is charged with some crime, or there is some legal proceeding that and those records become available with a simple visit to the court house, he remains a private citizen – entitled to the same right to privacy that we all enjoy as private citizens.
“The lack of skid marks shows the driver did not brake at all, and accordingly was either not paying attention or has the diminished reaction time of an elderly driver. Cars stop on a dime at that slow rate of speed, so something is off.”
Wrong on all counts.
Modern ABS brakes do not skid or leave skid marks.
A car going 25 MPH is traveling 37 feet per second. That’s twice its length each second. The average accelerator-to-brake reaction time is about 3/4 second, so the car moves 27 feet before it even begins slowing down. That’s about half the width of a standard Palo Alto residential street. Stopping on a dime from 25 MPH requires a very big dime, even accounting for inflation.
And who drives only 25 MPH anyway?
Obey those stop signs, bikers. The physics is stacked against you.
The car is a 1993 Nissan Altima. I believe the ABS feature was just an option that year.
@curmudgeon, thanks for precisely making my point: “Who goes 25 mph anyway,” as you so aptly put. Clearly the driver was not going the speed limit, or the cyclist and his bike wouldn’t have been dragged completely under the car for that long. Broad daylight in one of the quietest and widest open streets in the whole town… Meaning at least some wrongdoing on the old man’s part. Sad all around.
The peanut gallery is out in force today.
Everyone’s got an opinion on this specific situation that none of us actually know anything about.
The police statement was that they determined the driver of the bicycle was at fault in the accident for failing to stop at a posted stop sign, and the driver of the car did not have a stop sign. That’s it.
There are idiot cyclists and there are idiot drivers.
You know what, we cyclist will keep on riding and take some necessary risks. Car supremacists can also keep on driving all the time while raising their BMI. Statistically, bike’s benefits still outweighs the risk. Let’s try not to convince each other because it is hopeless.
The motorist had two legal obligations: 1) drive within the speed limit, and 2) not leave the scene of the accident once it had occurred. Even if he exceeded the speed limit, the motorist still had the right of way.
Sorry folks, that’s how the law stands. You can’t punish the motorist for complying with the law.
Two words: Charles Darwin
I live fairly close to where this took place and all through Crescent Park and down Channing
and throughout most of Palo Alto I see more people going through stop signs, paying
attention to their phones such that they miss green lights in traffic and hold up those behind
them. People routinely drive in the middle of the road right on or next to the lane marker
even when there is traffic driving right next to them. We have lots of incompetent people
driving in our city.
It’s rampant – more people disobeying the law and not seeming to understand how the
whole idea of driving and sharing the road safely is supposed to work.
Almost all bicyclists I see make eye contact with drivers and stop if the driver does not wave
them though. I almost always just wave a bicyclist through an intersection if there is not one
else there because I know it takes him a lot more energy to stop than it does me in my car.
I don’t understand the rage that some people roll out every time an PAO online discussion
touches on bicycles.
It’s very disturbing for a police chief to be so ignorant of the law. If the driver could have stopped then he had a duty to do so. If he didn’t then he’s at fault. It’s possible for both parties to be at fault.
It really brings up the issue of how fast the driver was traveling and if he was exceeding the speed limit.
The use of step signs in Palo Alto is excessive. No wonder they get ignored.
More lives would be saved by enforcing the speed limit.
As for ticketing the 73 year old driver–what if he didn’t have a driver’s license? Good luck.
I lived on the Stanford campus in a faculty residence area for twenty-five years and want to share my experience with bikers there. Virtually no biker stops at stop signs except for incoming students in the fall for a few weeks, until they understand that the culture tolerates bicycles zooming through all intersections at stunningly high speeds and often in groups, with one group trailing after another. Virtually no car ventures out in intersections when cyclists are approaching except for new residents or visitors for more than one time because that’s all the time needed to understand that cyclists have taken over the campus roads and ignore not just car drivers but pedestrians and, in my case, older disabled people in wheel chairs. Additionally, I have noticed a curious tactic used by many cyclists: they not only cruise through intersections with stop signs; they also cruise across pedestrian crosswalks on their bikes, often barreling up to one from behind a car driver and then recklessly crossing in front of the driver with a rapid 90 degree turn. I have considered this a visible sign of a collective death wish, but Stanford seems to tolerate this behavior and fortunately the students live on.
I would so appreciate a stringent effort on the part of the Stanford officials and police to enforce the laws for bicyclists at stop signs; I don’t know if it’s ever been tried or if the Stanford people have just given up in the face of this anarchy and sense of entitlement. I bring this up as an example for Palo Alto to avoid. Of course it is tragic that a cyclist died in a biking accident caused by his own decision to press on through an intersection legally mandating a stop. I urge us to realize, though, that the way to avoid such fatalities in the future is to enforce the laws that cyclists are breaking, often with the brazen violations evidenced on the Stanford campus. I hope that Palo Alto learns from Stanford. I hope that Stanford learns from Stanford.
I saw the video of the crash. I’m one of the few people that did, as I happen to know a resident of a house in the area whose home IP camera captured the crash. I also know that this video was shared with the police as part of the investigation. The video reveals 2 things:
1. The cyclist went right through the stop sign. It was not an Idaho stop (Idaho stop = treating a stop sign like a yield sign). The cyclist went through at full speed.
2. The ensuing collision with the car was most unlucky. The cyclist and his bike slid under the car and was rolled over.
I have nothing else to add, other than my sadness at this general loss of life.
After submitting my last post, I went through and read all of the comments. A lot of speculation. A lot of speculation that turned out to be not only wrong, but totally wrong.
What this clearly reveals is that bikes vs. cars in Palo Alto is a sensitive issue, with people ignoring the facts of the case (or making wrong guesses about the facts of the case) to advance their opinions. I’m going to repost what Gnar wrote above, because it is wholly appropriate:
“The peanut gallery is out in force today.
Everyone’s got an opinion on this specific situation that none of us actually know anything about.
The police statement was that they determined the driver of the bicycle was at fault in the accident for failing to stop at a posted stop sign, and the driver of the car did not have a stop sign. That’s it.
There are idiot cyclists and there are idiot drivers.”
Frankly the bicyclist-hating is appalling. Trumpoid. Take an inventory, people. Condemning a large group based on the behavior of a few is an all-too-familiar phenomenon. Young, old and all in between make mistakes, in cars and on bikes. Drunks and text-tors are pretty much confined to drivers. Should we condemn all drivers?
We are all in this together.
Who knows all the factors in this incident? But I would like to see a movement among parents and cyclists to increase visibility of cyclists. As a first step, we should have helmets and backpacks in bright fluorescent colors and reflective materials. We see so many cyclists wearing dark clothing, dark helmets and dark backpacks. Parents/PTAs should step in and set a standard.
“If the driver could have stopped then he had a duty to do so. If he didn’t then he’s at fault. It’s possible for both parties to be at fault.”
Below is a link to the California Vehicle Code. Please use it to cite anything that supports your version of the law.
“It’s very disturbing for a police chief to be so ignorant of the law.”
I don’t think it’s the police chief who is ignorant of the law.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.html/veh_table_of_contents.html
“I believe the ABS feature was just an option that year.”
OK, did this car have them or not? Also, a skilled driver will not lock wheels and leave skid marks with any car. Locked wheels have much reduced braking effectiveness.
“@curmudgeon, thanks for precisely making my point: “Who goes 25 mph anyway,” as you so aptly put.”
Right. So don’t blast through STOP signs. That’s MY point. When you lose the bet against a faster car, you lose bigger.
“Clearly the driver was not going the speed limit, or the cyclist and his bike wouldn’t have been dragged completely under the car for that long.”
You have no quantitative facts, let alone analysis, to support this. Wistful thinking is not a valid basis for accusation.
Many of these comments imply that people in their 70’s should not be driving; using that logic teenagers should should not be permitted to drive either….
“Mile for mile, the crash rate for drivers ages 16 and 17, for example, is almost nine times as high as that for middle-aged drivers. People 80 and older are involved in 5.5 times as many fatal crashes per mile driven as middle-aged drivers.” http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/10/teenagers-and-older-people-are-the-riskiest-drivers/index.htm
My dad drove until age 93, he had no tickets no accidents; no eating, drinking, texting, phone calls or music while driving. He also stayed off of freeways and avoided commute traffic. He voluntarily gave up the keys after 93, he knew it was time, but that time is different for everyone.
My two cents both as a driver and cyclist.
As a driver…. I’ve seen cyclists around Stanford literally ignore stop signs, and zoom past at high speeds.. even if it’s not their turn. As someone who routinely drives through Stanford campus, whenever I approach a stop sign, I become uber cautious with both pedestrians and cyclists there as all of them seem to think they are above the traffic laws.
However, as a parent of young children (ages 8 and 6), who bike to school… we often bike along California avenue. I have had a few cars, backing coming out of their parking spaces, one was a black SUV Mercedes, and another was a Tesla sedan… completely unaware of us (the 3 cyclists) carefully following traffic and biking on the right hand side of the lane. They would back up WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING and almost ran over me or my children (my children are not uber fast cyclists and we are easy to see). We had to swerve out of their way on both instances to avoid being hit. I was so incredibly angry especially with the black SUV as he was completely unaware of his surroundings. Early morning traffic on California ave is VERY light HOWEVER there are still cyclists biking to school. It was… appalling and the most blatant display of ignoring the traffic laws. These drivers thought they were above the law. Incredibly entitled behaviors.
I have decided both as a driver and cyclist (who is teaching my young children to bike safely)…. one should never assume others are obeying the traffic laws.. and always err on the side of caution and drive defensively (both as a cyclist or in a car).
It’s terrifying how there is such an entitled attitude displayed by both drivers and cyclists around here. Perhaps it’s just California… but there are a LOT of accidents for a place with a lot of sunshine and no snow, hail or sleet.
~transplant from the east coast where there is rain, hail, snow and fog and a LOT LESS traffic accidents
Regularly see bike riders blow through intersections. Earlier today a cyclist unexpectedly swerved right in front of me to make a left turn. Appeared to be completely oblivious.
Then there are the drivers who keep on going when the light has turned red, especially the left turn lane from El Camino onto Embarcadero at the Town and Country intersection. Makes me mad that the city budgets $20 for improved bike lanes, another million for the bike stations, yet doesn’t even bother to staff the police department sufficiently for traffic enforcement.
Why is it OK for cyclists to tow babies in trailers, have small children on bikes in traffic, yet if they were in a car, California law requires that children be properly secured in the back seat in a proper child restraint system until they are AT LEAST eight years old. On a first offense, a child passenger violation will cost a minimum of $475 with penalty assessments. A second or subsequent offense carries a minimum cost of $1,055.
Yet those same parents can have their kids (ages 6 and 8 noted by recent comment) riding along CA Avenue, at great risk (as noted by the parent), and it is perfectly legal. I know the cycling crowd will go ballistic at that comment, but unfortunately we do not live in a bucolic community, common sense SHOULD prevail, but often does not.
myopinion,
Most bikes with a trailer travel at 10 MPH tops. The accident the car seats prevent won’t occur.
“…one should never assume others are obeying the traffic laws.. and always err on the side of caution and drive defensively (both as a cyclist or in a car). It’s terrifying how there is such an entitled attitude displayed by both drivers and cyclists around here.”
Words to live by.
Thanks to Rosey for telling us about this human being who was killed on a morning bike ride. Bikes behave please and please cars watch out forbikes
@thats easy –
Bike trailers may travel at 10mph but they (and kids on bikes) are sharing the road with cars often driven by distracted drivers. And as mentioned here a cyclist is no match for a 3000 pound car. That fact that it is OK to expose children to this dangerous situation is puzzling.
myopinion,
and a 3000 lb car is no match for a semi truck, yet cars are allowed to share the road with trucks.
When was the last time a bike trailer accident with a child that resulted in a major injury?
I don’t recall a one accident in Palo Alto, so what problem are you trying to solve?
@thats easy – I have no idea when if there has ever been a bike trailer accident in Palo Alto but there have been incidents in other communities, clearly you are on one of the cyclists that I predicted would go ballistic at the suggestion that children are not safe navigating city streets on bikes or as passengers in bike trailers… quote from a parent involved in a bike trailer accident….thankfully the child survived.
“The risk of a rear-end accident and the consequence of what happens if it occurs, is something I hadn’t fully come to terms with before — not like this,” more info….
http://bikeportland.org/2012/12/04/man-rear-ended-while-biking-with-child-in-trailer-speaks-out-80772
Speed Kills==cars texing==cars phones==cars passingers==cars laptops==cars food & drink==cars radios==cars bad brakes==cars more traffic accidents==cars # one reason for accidents and deaths==speed of cars cars kill bikers-bikers don’t kill drivers