Op-Ed: PAUSD needs new leadership

Thank you Ken and Michele for raising the profile of this issue!

Right now and nearly every week, there is a new discussion thread on PA Online where frustrated parents call out for change: growing mega-high schools, crowded elementary schools, busywork-type homework, un-checked cheating, etc. Yet it seems to fall on deaf ears – apparently even when raised at board meetings and community forums like the inter-faith meeting.

This week, the topic is on the Mega-high schools we are creating and how they are the opposite of the stated goal of fostering “connectedness”. Many elementary school parents are speaking out and willing to make some changes, even get behind the third high school option, or “campus within a campus” structures while there is still time.

http://www.paloaltoonline.com/square/index.php?i=3&d=&t=14484

How can we get REAL change moving?

I love this report. I love the article, thank you Palo Alto on Line for publicizing it. Michelle, I would love to meet with you. I spoke on Tuesday about the school size at the board meeting, but till today, no one has called me, and I know they won’t because I have been talking and talking at the board meeting, and they do not get back to me. They do say that they will at the board meeting, but it doe not happen in reality, I having raising my voice since the day our Second precious child die, but I am no heard, and unfortunately more students keep dying. Bless your hard for addressing this issues. Hopefully you will be heard. This is a serious issue and it need to be addressed NOW. This completely describes how I feel. It seems like it was written by me, except that i am not that good at writing. I will e-mail you soon. I probably know you already.

people move here because of the two good high schools and this is in turn to support our property values. if we let the reputation of our schools to wane, then palo alto will lose the attraction for them,the schools should find out a balance point where we can retain our good school reputation as well as keeping stress low for students.in los altos-mountain view high,students can choose ap classes as soon as they are at the freshmen year,there are not much strict pre-requirements for students to enroll, now in palo alto, students packed all their ap classes into junior year(this year is the most stressful for students),causing unwanted stress.

I agree with parent from barron park. I disagree with op ed i think pausd and skelly in paeticlar HAVE done a lot to reduce stress ans i can see it for myself in my kids workload. The Problem as parent points out is emPhasis by our community on ivy leagues and in turn the ivy leagues’ emphasis on AP curriculum.

Personally i think we should be moving away from any curriculum on all levels of education which ‘tests’ with multiple choice scantron tests and moving to the real-life approach of applying knowledge thru projects and presentations.

P.s. The excellent foothill middle college curriculum is pretty close to ideal.

Dear Ken and Michele,

You speak eloquently on the problems caused by stress. Then you come up with this incredible statement:

“In Palo Alto we have a $154 million well-oiled machine for producing academic stress and all its attendant problems…”

What we have in Palo Alto is a school district that delivers high-quality education and sets high standards. What we have is a school system that we as parents have demanded over the years.

It’s true that stress is high in this school system and community. It’s true that some kids don’t do well in this high-achieving community. It’s essential that we as a community reach out to students and adults alike who need help and support.

Ken and Michele, the school district is only part of this community. It can do its part to help, and seems to be trying to do so, even while having the temerity, according to you, to suggest that this is a difficult problem to solve.

A different and more reasonable statement you could have made might have been:

The concentration of high-achieving, successful, ambitious, and demanding parents in Palo Alto has created more and more stress in our students and in our institutions, contributing greatly to some of the tragedies we have seen in the past few years.

We all need to look at ways to improve this situation, not just pretend that it’s just the schools and Kevin Skelly’s leadership. Talk to your fellow parents, Ken and Michele. Work with them, even though, yes, changing this culture is not an easy job!

> a big part of the problem is the many parents and students who
> will scream if the schools don’t offer the full range of AP classes

One possible solution would be to have the colleges teach these AP classes, on-line, and the school district partially subsidize each student. The classwork need not be done on the school grounds, thus reducing “the scene”, and some of the stress.

I don’t support the drift of this Op/Ed, since no clear solutions are proposed. Some people forget that this is far more a family problem than it is a community problem.

I echo Happy Paly Dad’s comments, and firmly believe PAUSD leadership has been doing an EXCELLENT job of supporting our children and their educational pursuits.

It turns my stomach to think that anyone would even think to suggest that a decision to submit information for an AP participation survey is at all linked to recent suicides in our community.

Don’t blame the schools for the pressure . . . blame the Chinese, Indians, Brazilians, Russians, Singaporeans, etc who want what we have: a higher standard of living. The two ways they can achieve that are for the pie to grow or for their countries’ pieces to grow (at the expense of the pieces of others i.e, us.)
They’re busting butts to get standards of living up and not crying about it while we navel gaze and worry about stress.
The answer is easy: if you want success, work hard. If not, opt out. The country needs janitors and maids, too. Just don’t bellyache about the outcomes and realize that choices have consequences.
Are our kids such teacups – pretty to look at, but so fragile?

i think in this sensitive time, we all need to keep muted about those high achieving high talented students,when those unusually high achieving students are lauded by the schools, what do those students that are average think? they must be pretty depressed, now if we add more pressures from expecting parents,how would they cope with this?we can let those students thrive as much as they can the schools just need to mute ourselves coz it does not mean that those at the bottom are bad. i heard a saying which says those students who are at the top are professors or engineers,those at the very bottom are bosses who will control those in the middle.in the real word, this happens a lot.

I think Kevin Skelly is doing a great job and is a huge improvement over our previous superintendent, but as a district, we can certainly do more.

As the parent of a senior – his AP classes are significantly harder and require more work than those of his friends and cousins in other districts. PAUSD students routinely get to college and tell us their classes are easier than high school. We can be academically rigorous, without being academically ridiculous.

Ideas such as reducing the number of AP classes won’t fly here – because as was mentioned above – as many parent want more homework for their kids as want less.

As a community, we are a VERY high achieving group of CEO, Venture Capitalists, professional athletes, etc. Pretty hard to live up to.

I’m not a huge fan of Skelly but this OpEd piece is completely off base. Skelly cares about our kids and does a lot for them. You could have attacked Skelly on the things he’s failed at, but moving the calendar et al is not on him; it’s on the parents.

Life is stressful. College is stressful. Part of high school is to prepare you for both. There’s a happy medium for all of our kids. However, there are many, many of my fellow parents who push their kids to have 5 APs every semester. Their children follow their parents’ mandate. Don’t blame the schools for this; blame the parents.

Wow. I am all for Palo Alto being prompted to better on this important issue, but the loose rhetoric and lack of a substantive proposal makes this piece more of an angry rant than a considered opinion.

I am willing to bet that not a single Gunn or Paly student is taking any AP class in order to support the school’s or the PAUSD Newsweek index ranking. Also the authors must be aware of the fact that the superintendent tried to move exams to before winter break– the one concrete action mentioned piece–but some of Palo Alto’s “expert” parents with a different targeted objective prevented the school board from adopting it. Criticism for calling the problem “hard”? That’s what I’d call it.

I don’t know Kevin Skelly, but I have read his thoughtful letters to parents over the years and they consistently exhort the community to relax a little, get some sleep, and appreciate the things that we may be inclined to overlook in our push for more. I think he understands Palo Alto pretty well and has done a good job balancing the many irreconcilable challenges of our school district. I would hate to see him sacrificed to a “somebody do something” call to action.

Every time I’ve contacted Dr. Skelly, he’s responded. During the math debates, he even called many of the most vocal folks about the change into his office for what ended up being a very long meeting discussing pros and cons. He is receptive to ideas. I would NOT want to see another administrator take his seat. The chances of getting someone else who cares as much as he does and is as responsive as he is in his seat are slim to none. He has kids in the District, too, just like most of the School Board does or did.

We all need to take a collective breath here. There are changes that need to happen, yes. Too much homework leads to too little sleep. Can we change that? Sure! Has anyone proposed tighter restrictions on homework and consequences for teachers who break them (like by assigning work over break)? Not that I’ve heard!

Further, this is not all the District’s fault. If your kid is staying up too late to do too much homework, what have you done about it? I make my kid go to bed. That’s MY job. Parents here keep looking to the District for a solution while they continue to oversubscribe their kids to activities, leaving them to stay up to the wee hours to do their work, then scratch their head when their sleep-deprived, overstressed kid is depressed. NO ONE knows your kid like you do. What are you doing differently at home to deal with that? More family dinners? More down-time?

As well, NO ONE has said that these kids who took their lives did so because of academic stress. Is that true? We’ll never know. We’ll never know if they had underlying mental illnesses. We can’t assume it’s because they had too much homework, too little sleep, too much pressure, or bad parents, any more than we can assume bad leadership at the District. Let’s all agree that we can ALL do better, and that the responsibility for that is shared.

Should we pressure the District to do more and to do better? Sure. Will someone else do it better than Skelly? I doubt it.

My suggestion: I would like to see an expanded school board, perhaps even doubled in size (making its size more in line with many other CA towns), so that there’s a body big enough to have rigorous debate over what to do next. A party of 5 is too small to have big impact and to represent everyone adequately — and when you get a couple of folks on there, like I think we have now, who are all talk and no action, the consequences are dire.

Last thought, if you want to know what’s “really” wrong at the schools … ask a kid. The parents who wrote this article likely consulted their own, but, if you asked mine, the answer would be different. And part of that answer would be “too much focus on suicide, not enough about what could reduce our stress.” The kids hold the cards here, and we ought to let them play them.

This article was not logical. It is sad that AP classes equal suicides. PALY and GUNN were not even on the top 50 of the newsweek’s public high school list. We don’t hear many student suicides in other Bay Area high schools that offer more AP classes than PALY or GUNN. Stress could be good, but balance should be achieved. The practice of limiting AP classes to Jr. and Sr. causes unwanted stress. The students coming out of PAUSD K-8 schools could be more ready for high school, the curriculum latter among K-12 could be more evenly distrbuted.

The reality is that there are a variety of viewpoints – some parents are very focused on pushing their children academically, others see this as stress, some parents want finals before Christmas, others don’t. The superintendent and other officials are often caught between these competing interests and it can take time to work these issues out. While we are all concerned about the suicides, they are not strictly the result of school stress. Parents and others in the community own part of this. Putting it all on the school is unrealistic.
I have seen a number of concrete changes this year such as the new block schedule at Paly which have both improved academic opportunities as well as relieved some of the stress. I also believe that establishing realistic expectations as a parent and not buying into the notion that only attending Harvard is acceptable helps keep kids on track.
I’m sure that there is more to be done but my experience with the school administration has been nothing but positive.

@ Ted Henderson:
You said: “The reason to reevalutae PAUSD is because every year 15-20% of the students are not being successful. (Think that’s insignificant?..try flushing away 15-20% of your salary and tell me that’s acceptable).”
I’d respond that it depends on how you define success . . . and importantly how you OPTIMIZE for societal benefit. It might make more sense to send those 15-20% on vocational routes and accelerate the 80%, rather than holding everyone back because the 2 standard deviation-level bottom end can’t hack it.
With respect to your salary analogy, think of it this way: if you have an entire workforce that is going to experience a 15% aggregate pay cut, it might make more sense to cull the bottom 15% of people to achieve those cuts (or even the bottom 20 or 25% and raise the comp of the top 5 or 10%). That will almost certainly lead to a better outcome (even, most likely, for those in the bottom who can then better optimize fits in new organizations relative to their own skills.) Sometimes change can be painful, but the good of the many outweighs the good of the few or the one, no?

I agree that the schools express community values, and that it may be impossible to change the schools without a corresponding change in community culture.

Over my 45 years as parent, grandparent, teacher and principal in Palo Alto, I’ve had enraged parents complain because kinder teachers do not give enough homework, have had enraged parents complain that a Princeton bound child received a B+ rather than an A, have had parents lined up to change teachers because of community gossip which was historically and demonstrably inaccurate, have had parents inquire how their elementary school student’s suspension will affect college enrollment rather than inquire about the cause of the suspension; have had conferences with parents who have an ACLU attorney in tow, have watched periodic, heated debate about the insufficient rigor of the mathematics curriculum; all these exemplify an underlying competitiveness which is only intensified by the lunatic, costly (both in terms of money and lost class time) and time-consuming testing programs imposed on Palo Alto.

Although such examples may represent a minority of families, such parental attitudes generally seem to me to be the most influential and least likely to change.

Perhaps the most powerful indicator of this community of smart, energetic, ambitious, successful and highly educated people is in the cost of housing in which a 1,000 sq. foot three bedroom and one bath “starter” or “entry level” house costs $1,200,000.00. Who but the most driven, the best educated, most competitive and highly successful can afford to live here?

Can changing a school board or a school administration really alter the intensity of our parent community, no matter how negatively that intensity affects some students and families?

@ Bob

Your logic only applies until they are cutting your kid loose.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

In a 14 January 2011 comment on the Palo Alto Weekly article entitled “Paly student dies Thursday afternoon”, Michelle Dauber’s comment was removed by Palo Alto Weekly staff.

Based on a Google search — admittedly quick — this redacted comment is Ms. Dauber’s sole prior commentary in any publication on the critical issue discussed in the Op-Ed herein above.
_____

Unfortunately, such Op-Ed includes several unsupported conclusions. A thorough discussion of an important issue, filled with careful factual support and well-reasoned analysis? I think not.

I appreciate the effort the Daubers have put into this, but their analysis is flawed. Most people who commit suicide are suffering from mental illness. Stress is not the trigger. Skelly is correct in that respect. Research supports this finding.

The problem is that response by PAUSD, police, Caltrain and the various mental health agencies was chaotic and disorganized. The Centers for Disease Control have a well established protocol for communities to deal with suicide clusters. Communities that have followed this protocol have stopped the suicides. Instead, it appears Palo Alto took its own approach, cutting and pasting ideas from various sources rather than following something that worked.

There are no ways to “reduce stress” on students who are extremely high achievers, determined to graduate with a 4.2 GPA, join every club and team, and do “volunteer work” in order to have a chance of entering UC Berkeley or an “Ivy League”.

However,we could at least give them a full-stop week of rest between semesters…but, no..too hard on folks who want that week in August to travel.

For the University-bound, cultural acceptance of the Junior College track is hard…I have no idea what to do about that.

For the non-college bound, vocational tracks, having true voc ed return to the high schools, not just a couple auto classes, but real and varied options, would be a great start to giving hope to the non-college bound. Some kind of leap start into a vocational training program…heating/air, auto, horticulture/arbor, animal tech…

@Roger: You really think academic stress does not lead to suicide and it all has to do with mental illness? You are so very wrong. Environmental factors have a lot to do with depression. Mentally healthy individuals can become depressed and lose hope if pushed far enough.

Mom teacher,

“The problem is NOT the schools/teachers/administration”

YES IT IS, you are not doing enough to change how schools are getting so big for example, you are happy with the status quo,

we have curriculums on steroids, not all teachers are alike, and you can’t fire anyone, that’s definitely not socially emotionally healthy for anyone.

and teachers actually benefit from the competitive atmosphere because they get excellent motivated students.

the types of structural improvements that are necessary to improve the quality of life for students should either way be of interest to you, so why are you on the defensive?

It’s like people having a heart problem asking for a brain surgery! Perhaps some of them are having an hidden agenda.

To Happy Paly Dad and Local Mom and Teacher — Thank you!

I have been teaching in Palo Alto and other districts for many years. I promise you this: kids don’t commit suicide because they have too much homework, student stress is not caused by schools nor relieved by special school calendars, and the teachers and administrators are not responsible for the emotional health of your children.

Kevin Skelly isn’t my favorite person. He’s not the best leader, he cow tows to the parents, and he essentially fired half our administration last year because a group of aggressive parents couldn’t bear the thought of their children being held accountable for their illegal and destructive vandalism of another school. But he is not responsible for the emotional health of your child. Neither am I, your child’s teacher. Academic stress is part of a much larger systemic problem that begins with parents and is fueled by college admission policies. The high schools are caught in the middle, with little chance that we will be able to effect much change.

Surely you must be kidding if you think that this community would allow the elimination or even reduction of AP course offerings. And don’t blame the school board for not being able to issue a decision on the school calendar when parents refuse to alter their family travel traditions in order to make it happen — they want what they want but they aren’t willing to give up ANYTHING to get it. Funny, sounds kind of like their kids.

This parent community is out of control, and NOTHING that the superintendent or the teachers do could possibly manifest any real change until there is a change in the parenting philosophy of this community.

Yes, it would greatly benefit kids if classes were smaller, the Advisory program more meaningful, a third high school was built, more school guidance counselors and school psychiatrists were hired, teachers were paid more, etc. BUT the real problem and the possibility for real change lies at HOME, not at school.

Ironically, while the debate seems to get more and more antagonistic between parents and teachers, the community and the administration, we ALL want the same thing — we want our students to be happy and healthy and successful in school and in life. We just have very different definitions of what that means.

I am continually sad for my students, not because of what their teachers inflict on them, but because of the inadequacy and pressure they feel from their parents — whether real or perceived.

I agree with a lot of what the Daubers say, but the blame should not be placed on Skelly–it should be on the board. The only time I have ever seen such a non-functional group is when analysis driven engineers try to make a product release date–something is always left off because they cannot make a decision–“give me more data”. And several have agendas that are ridiculous. I alsmost fell off my chair when one board member said every school should be a choice school.

This district suffers from 2 things, “give me more data” and “let’s let each school be totally autonomous”. When the school calendar came up 4 years ago, some high school parents wanted to have finals before break to reduce stress, but the board asked for more information and, since the elementatry parents outnumbered the high school parents, it became a moot point. Well, here it is 4 years later and they are still asking for more information. Come on folks, do we have to invent a wheel every time we need to push the cart???

The only reason we need any employees at the district level is to make sure we are complying with state law. Oh, and to make sure our numbers (API, etc) look good. Each school is treated like a separate company. God forbid we should share best practices! When bullying was a big issue 6 years ago, each elementary school was out looking for anti-bullying programs and implementing the one they liked. There was no effort to coordinate things district wide because God forbid somone should tell a principal how to run something. And wasn’t that productive use of scarce resources!

I do give Skelly credit for trying to push through the calendar change–every other high school is doing it but, no, we have different needs… Even after getting “more data”, I doubt this board will do anything.

But I do not like the fact that he went back to participating in the Newsweek Challenge Index. We don’t need that! A lot of the public high schools that make it are “Magnet” High Schools where they can skim off the cream of the student population to only take the top 20%, so the numbers are skewed. And why does Palo Alto need to publicize that we have “good schools”? Do we want more people moving here with high achieving agendas to add more pressure?

Oh, and there was the mention of how many kids get tutored. Some estimates are that as many as 80% of the kids at Gunn have tutors. So how good are our teachers if we have to supplement what they do with paid for help? Instead of saying that Palo Alto schools are good, we should be saying that Palo Alto parents are good.

There needs to be better leadership at the board level. Skelly is caught in a demilitarized zone between his subordinates and his bosses. He tries to lead, but the board, who want to get re-elected, cowtows to the minority of parents who are the most vocal. If you want to get your way in Palo Alto, make sure you scream the loudest and the last–this board will buckle to the last loud input. No matter how much “data” they have, it is easier for them to say, we need to study this rather than make a “hard decision”. I am just so glad I don’t have to deal with this anymore! But I feel sorry for parents still in the “system”–you have your work cut out for you. Good luck.

Wow, is it too late for me to get in on the act? Kevin Skelly sees himself as an educator not a psychologist, but I think he has figured out that irate parents and these issues of student health and well-being are not going away. I for one would like to see him have a chance to reframe and be successful here. Amy Drolette is head of Student Services for PAUSD. She reports to Kevin. Amy is working with Rob DeGeus of the City of Palo Alto and they are overseeing Project Safety Net’s long term strategic goals — one of which is to be working hand-in-glove with PAUSD in implementing the Focused Goal of Youth Connectedness. It is most unfortunate that Amy and Kevin were not at the top of their game at the meeting February 13th. At the Project Safety Net Meeting on February 24, Amy rolled out an initiative “Sources of Strength” http://www.sourcesofstrength.com . Those who attended the open-to-the-public meeting participated in a 90 minute live webinar with the founders of this “Sources of Strength”. SOS has a proven track record in training youth to be peer counselors. Their job is to be the connection between disaffected and hurting youth and caring adults who can help. When these trained young people are “deployed” into a school environment — across the board the stress factors go down. They’ve got data to back it up. Amy Drolette is planning on announcing this new initiative on the PAUSD Website SOON. That is my understanding. There will be a pilot program this Spring with full implementation this Fall. That is my understanding.

Now, does the buck stop there? No. PAUSD is doing other things like implementing gatekeeper training in all the high schools and middle schools this current year. Project Safety Net has got plans and is looking for volunteers to be the arms and legs in this city. Go to http://www.psnpaloalto.com to find out how to help. And what are we citizens doing? I know that parents are passionately engaged in their kids’ lives and coaching sports and running the scouts and carpooling kids to lessons. But I think I’m talking about something else here. Everyone of us living in Palo Alto has a duty to show the kids of this town that we care in everything we do toward them. Is your business youth friendly? Do you have Internship/job opportunities for kids in your place of business? Do you have a skill that the schools don’t teach? Have you talked to a young person who wasn’t your own child and listened to what they had to say? Have you thought about how our open spaces and public places and even private businesses could be used to promote activities for our youth? Before we give Kevin a pink slip, I’d like to give him and Amy a chance to implement some of their initiatives with full community involvement, engagement and support. We could have Joan of Ark and Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. King himself running PAUSD, but the community has to roll up its sleeves and get down to work as well.

Me Too,

parents come and go, not everyone can be here 100 years to plan and organize the best possible environment, and be hyper involved in the schools

BUT schools, teachers and administrators are charged with the continuity of things that work, and for changing and challenging what’s not working

it’s a massively disjointed system relying on political whims and strokes of genius in leadership, to actually make a difference

maybe we do have terrible luck

Becky,

“training youth to be peer counselors.’???!!!!

on top of everything they already do???!!!

wow

Having Mega schools in a community that is hyper competitive challenges everyone, even the best students.

schedule changes, challenging success, training kids to SELF-counsel, maybe it helps

but real long-term planning is to stop expanding the schools, create smaller environments for them. and hopefully not need SOS, and whatever emergency systems are being put in place.

There is nothing wrong with PAUSD. Skelly is doing a fantastic job making the schools famous and good for people who want to go to Ivy and UCLA level colleges. What we need to change is parenting.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Regardless of the issues here, one thing with Skelly. His mind is always made up. He doesn’t value input. Case in point: Everyday Math.

the school can open an anonymous phone line that only high school kids can call to discuss with someone about any thing that are related to their school lives or unusually situation/complaints or pressure at home.

The Weekly just posted the questions that the audience wanted to ask at the Feb. 13th forum held at St. Mark’s. It’s on the thread that was started about that meeting. http://www.paloaltoonline.com/square/index.php?i=3&d=&t=14421

Parent from Paly community posted

about proposed schedule change

“Some will always use Winter Break to get ahead academically. Don’t pretend high achievers will get a break. Those Tiger Moms won’t let them.”

Tiger parents are definitely an issue and I agree with some of the teachers on that, BUT not that parents can change, or should.

It’s still up to the schools to not let them/us parents game the system.

So, keep the competitiveness in our schools – it’s overall good for everyone but, there’s a reason too many tigers are never put in the same cage,

the STRESS from it can and should be changed

Break it up somehow, and keep the tiger influences apart, instead of the lane system

IF TEAMs or Houses were created, or schools within schools concept, you could manage this better

teams, houses or sub-groups would force teachers to talk to each other about each student, and to get to know their Team or House kids better, have a Principal, Counselor, Psychologist, for EACH team or house

this would finally lead to accountability for coordinating homework. I’ve heard that doing something like this would be “logistically” difficult

this is where leadership does come in, and I completely agree with the Dauber’s

“We shouldn’t have to struggle with the school district to acknowledge basic facts of life about our schools and our children.”

I agree it’s the parents and the realtors. Skelly is doing a very good job. If anything he’s too easy on the parents who pretend to care about the students, while continuing to pressure their own.

The teachers blame the parents for putting the stress on their kids. Can we just look at the teachers for a minute? I’m a registered democrat and I think the teacher’s union has got to go! Lifelong tenure after 1.5 yrs? Performance evaluations that are not tied to compensation? This system is medieval! Break the union. Hire, evaluate and retain teachers based on their ability to teach. Maybe then the playing field will be even and the students might enjoy learning for the sake of knowledge.

Teachers treat all parents as if we’re the enemy — oh and they treat the students that way, too. When I’ve met with a teacher regarding my student’s progress (not the GRADE, but the failure to learn the material) I’m told that it’s my child’s fault for not keeping up. The teacher is required by the department to “keep up” with the other classes so that tests on the material can be given on the same day to reduce cheating. How about really teaching the material so the student can understand it? What about developing a culture of HONESTY in all things academic. Two years ago, a student plagerized their commencement speech, but it was too late to punish them. In my school we were required to write on every paper: This is my own work. Give the existing Honesty Policy some teeth!

And the reason Skelly got rid of “half” of the Paly administrators last year is because they were out of touch with reality! Phil Winston is the best thing to happen to Paly since Sandra Pearson! He handled the last suicide with grace and care and concern for ALL the students and their families. We are lucky to have him.

Palo Alto is full of activist parents with strong opinions and strong inclinations to express those opinions. This may be why we keep grinding up and spitting out Superintendents and high school principals. Maybe this is also why we have somehow ground up so many children.

This letter is such a hodgepodge of fact, “conclusions” not based on facts presented and sheer vitriol that it does not help us to move forward as a community. As Kevin Skelly has often said, we all need to relax a little bit and go easier on our selves and on each other.

We need to start by looking in the mirror as parents and address the pressures that we feel and that we inflict on our children.

I disagree with this “article.” I’m a Paly parent of two who teaches at an equally competitive high school. Skelly and others are trying hard. What needs to be addressed is what is going on at home. Families appear to prize getting into an Ivy as of utmost importance and cheating (Sparknotes and tutors doing more than tutoring) as a means to get there. Teachers are inundated with recommendation writing for Ivy schools and their summer programs, which means time away from lesson planning. I’m really tired of techies telling teachers what to do. Teachers want to teach critical thinking and the love of discovery. Allow them to do it and don’t foster cheating. Your job at Google is completely different from teaching BTW.

I’m no lover of PAUSD. I think they are failing this community in various ways … like having way too many high-paid “Assistant Superintendent” positions while cutting back on classroom teachers. On the other hand, there’s only so much they can do about stress in a community that is fanatical about getting their kids into ivy league colleges. Palo Alto is one messed-up community. My daughter was a nonconformist in high school who refused to bow to the pressures and refused to sign up for calculus. She’s now taking calculus in college and enjoying it! I mean really, people, how many of these kids who take calculus as juniors at Gunn will ever use it? My daughter, on the other hand, is headed for a degree in Economic modeling where she WILL use it. So which child is better prepared for life? I vote for mine.

There’s not a lot wrong with PAUSD that parents relaxing wouldn’t solve. The pressure (or not) starts at home, not school or society. It’s funny that Palo Alto people cannot discuss their issues without resorting to hyperbole and accusation – perhaps indicative of why the kids get stressed out.

I am not worried about my kids (one high school, one middle) since they know that we love them and have confidence in them and their futures. Sure, they run into problems and have to deal with pressure and setbacks – that’s life and how they learn. They’ll do fine, in PAUSD or anywhere else I expect.

Stress is something that we choose – it doesn’t come from outside, it is completely under each person and family’s control. You can be calm in pressure cooker or come unhinged at a tea party – it depends on the person’s outlook. Parents, the tools for managing our kids’ stress are available to us all – we don’t need the schools to do anything for us.

i have talked to some college students from both ivy and ucla who graduated from gunn,and other high school in this area, the palo alto ones told me that the school better prepares them for the college while others feel struggled in those colleges.palo alot did a good job in preparing students to succeed in the future.

Here’s what I tell my PAUSD-attending kids about stress:
Dear daughter, when I was your age (8), I visited my father for the first time in the hospital after he was cut by a fare-beater who didn’t want to pay for a ride “uptown” his cab.
Dear son, when I was your age (11), I started wondering why my mother would so meticulously cut for me all the meat from the meager scraps of chicken she was able to afford while she ate only the fat.
I remember learning what crack was when I asked one of the rock-slingers that hung out in the lobby of my Queens tenement what all those people were smoking in those funny pipes.
I remember getting semi-weekly beat-downs on the subway I took to my metal-detector guarded middle school.
etc, etc.
Despite all the hurdles, my mother always said, “things always work out . . . “ and “this is America, a far better place than where we came from . . . “
And I do my darndest to resist the temptation to paraphrase Barnes from the movie Platoon: “stress? whaddya all know about stress?”
Instead, I tell them that life can be hard at times, but things always seem to have a way of working out . . .

The main problem regarding academic stress is that it is harder and harder to get into the top elite universities. Some advocate just don’t worry about it. That works for some but often if students drop the AP class they find the regular class slow, boring, and not very good. It’s stressful for students to do busy work and take classes that are too easy.

Yes, there are tiger moms/dads who push their students too hard. But there are a lot of problems in our high schools that need to be addressed: teachers who don’t teach the material (it’s part of the project learning fads), a lot of time spent on busy work often tied to projects and group learning, and some teachers make it extremely hard to get an “A” where it is much easier in another high school in the bay area. These are things that should be looked at and improved upon.

A lot of this is driven by how hard it is to get into the privates and also the UC’s. Maybe we need a lottery system — meet a basic standard and then use a lottery. Students are expected to be adults just to get into the UC’s with all the activities and community service expected of them. This could be changed.

Shame on the Dauber’s for not doing their research and for publicly humiliating Dr. Skelly. Shame on PA Online for inviting the town to the public attack.

1. AP Index?

If you read the text that accompanies the AP Index, you’ll see that the Index has virtually nothing to do with stress (i.e. the grades/scores kids get in those classes) but has everything to do with making AP classes available to students of differing abilities because in many schools non-AP classes are where achievement gap kids go and languish content-wise. Jay Mathews, the Index’s author, is passionate about giving many high school kids access to strong content. Apparently, Dr. S. is too, and I suspect that is in part why he thinks PAUSD should support US News’ report.

2. Academic stress studies mentioned (but not cited) tying stress to depression and suicides?

Nowhere in all the work done by “parents, mental health professionals, and academics” mentioned by the Daubers has it been shown that academic stress causes suicide or depression that I have seen.

Who else disagrees with this connection? Challenge Success. After students took Challenge Success’ survey at Mission San Jose in Fremont, they found no correlation between the “stress level and the difficulty of the academic courseload,” which Denise Clark Pope reported was no surprise and consistent with other schools Challenge Success has surveyed. http://thesmokesignal.org/news/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=528&Itemid=1

In fact, Paly’s Challenge Success Survey, where students reported that athletics and relationships were as or more stressful than school, IDed stress as coming from out of school (82% IDing themselves and their parents) with only about 4% IDing teachers.

So then why the laser focus on PAUSD as the culprit?

3. Project Safety Net’s Report does not recommend what the Daubers say it does (that PAUSD put “final exams before the winter break.”)

That report mentions finals as something that we could solicit a youth voice about; this is exactly what PAUSD just did with the calendar survey that went out to all high schoolers last month.

It will be interesting to see if those results match the City of Palo Alto’s Youth Forum student survey results a year ago where our high school students reported that extra-curricular activities stressed them out 10 x more than the < 3% who pointed to finals as stressors. Per that survey, 3-4% is the same VERY LOW percent of students at both Paly and at Gunn who wanted finals to be moved to before break.

The Safety Net report also suggests “studying” this issue, again exactly what the district did, later taking into account community concerns about unintended stress/consequences pre-break finals would set in motion.

4. “A documentary film on the subject, ‘Race to Nowhere,’ has been showing to packed high school auditoriums nationwide.”

Wow, a for-profit film which scares people so they will buy tickets is not what I’d call unbiased authority.

The veil is being lifted on Race to Nowhere and efforts like it, exposing just how faulty their research is and how illogical many of their conclusions are. Take Race to Nowhere’s stat about teen depression. Fortunately for our youth, teen depression is one-tenth of what Race to Nowhere reports it to be (taken from the same source Race to Nowhere mis-cites for its shocking 10 times that number).

Just a battle of words? Look at actions then. Where are the founders of these groups spending the money they earn from ticket and book sales? The most famous of the bunch writes large tuition checks to send a child to one of the most competitive, homework-intensive, Ivy-feeder private high schools in California that makes Paly seem like an inner-city school in comparison.

So please don’t cite Race to Nowhere and its ilk as authority.

5. A “profound feeling among students of lack of community, connection, and caring adults.”

Strong words. Where’s your non-anecdotal authority for this? Maybe it would have been best to wait to see PAUSD’s Developmental Assets survey results that will be released in a few weeks before making these sweeping, unsubstantiated claims.

I could continue pointing out glaring problems with the Daubers’ other points, but the main point is that they twist the messages that their sources send.

Our community should be very careful with its information gathering before stirring up the public angst and criticizing policymakers.

Well said “Faulty underpinnings”!! Thank you for the great discussion points and thoughtful comments.

@Limit APs – you can limit your AP’s already, no? No one has to take them, and the faculty heartily encourages those who are not passionate for the subject not to take the course, and points to their many students past who did not take a particular AP (or Chem H or you name it) and, surprise, went to a fine college anyway. Then, surprise, the AP’s are usually quite hard – but presumably all who take are passionate for the subject. There is even ample time to drop once the courses begins (and many do – good for them). If your child takes three AP’s (or two or one) and is stressed out and overworked – well, who made the choice?

Some are asking the school to create policies to save us from ourselves. It seems better to preserve options for students, and for each family to make the choices that make sense for them.

It is well recognized that kids will talk to other kids, not adults. That is the point of the Sources of Strength program. From their website: (sourcesofstrength.org)
“Sources of Strength is a comprehensive wellness program that works to use peer leaders to change norms around codes of silence and help seeking. The program is designed to increase help seeking behaviors and connections between peers and caring adults. Sources of Strength has a true preventative aim in building multiple sources of support around individuals so that when times get hard they have strengths to rely on.”
The last thing this program wants to do is to increase stress for kids. It is not to create counselors, it is to give the kids the message that it is okay to come to an adult if a peer is in stress – to break the code of silence.
Please, before you denigrate something, take a moment to find out about it for yourself. Don’t rely on others for YOUR opinion.

Moira, bravo.
Can’t be said better

I’ve had four kids graduate from Gunn. There is a distinct CHANGE in the level of stress our children have now. I would love to blame lots of things and people. I wish Dr. Skelly communicated better, was a better leader, and more of a visionary. But, the bottom line is that the school system needs to change. It is just untenable to think it can remain as it is now. So, what is the evidence? Are smaller schools better? Does having choice programs serve our children well? Where does middle college fit in? Do schools that do things differently have good admission rates to colleges? What schools work overall the best for providing a good education, a good environment, a healthy balance, good values, connectedness for the majority of their students? The characteristics of what works must be documented in studies. Then , be brave Palo Alto, and initiate the changes necessary to benefit our students.

Star teachout,

“they need to develop internal strengths, look at nature, get outside themselves.”

this happens in Palo Alto, in very healthy ways, but it changes as they get older, the higher grades, and for some kids the level of pressure is of an adult world that many adults would not be able to handle

I don’t think you can keep expanding the size of schools and expect such a fun loving attitude

and there is a disconnect, this isn’t a big city, but our schools are as if

Yes Skelly is making Palo Alto schools famous, especially the high schools, but for the wrong reasons: “student suicides/” These new were heard even outside the country, and we were on Dr. Phil, many TV channels, and all across United States know about Gunn High School. He is also making students to go to many famous university, but sadly the cost is that some just go to the cemetery. One of our students is across from Gunn, this should remind tell the quality of the job he is doing in exchange of the big paycheck he gets. Way to go Skelly!! I think is time to stop making the schools famous, now is time to start taking care of the students emotional issues and get rid of the thinks that triggers the emotional issues in the first place. It is enough, and if you can’t or it is too hard leave your shoes to someone who can fit on them and do the work properly.

Dear Palo Alto Online Readers:

Thank you for taking the time to think about this important issue and for sharing your comments on our editorial. We believe that it is very important for parents, teachers, and community members — the electorate — to engage in a thoughtful discussion of how best to reduce stress in our high schools.

Among those who do not agree with us that the PAUSD leadership has failed to address the root causes of student stress in the high schools, the primary argument seems to be that the schools are powerless to make the necessary changes. Indeed, a few readers — both parents and teachers — went so far as to suggest that it does not matter who leads the district at all because no matter who is in that role, they will be forced to continue on the current high-stress path by aggressive parents who are the real problem.

Many people seem to feel that it is unfair to hold PAUSD accountable for academic stress when it’s the parents, not the schools, who cause stress — specifically parents who push their children to take more AP classes, drive their GPAs up by transferring credits in from transcript laundry operations, employ tutors to preview material, and so on. The extent to which this is true or merely a reflection of parental anxiety is hard to say. Certainly some of the comments (those referencing “tiger moms” for example) seem to trade in invidious stereotypes about Asian parents that are hurtful to the community. But assuming that it is the case that these arguments are correct and there is a large minority or even a majority of parents that are pushing their children to ever-greater levels of academic achievement, this is an argument for intervention by the school district, not against it.

If indeed, Palo Alto’s parents and students are engaged in an academic arms race with no upper bound, in a zero-sum competition for admission to the UCs and other elite colleges then the only way to relieve the pressure is for the district leadership to set and enforce reasonable limits. Only the district can reduce the level of competition to one that is not injurious. Are students taking too many AP classes so that they can say they took “full advantage” of what the schools had to offer? Only the district can limit the number of AP classes so that no parent can press for more. Are students taking on too many extracurriculars in order to pad their resumes? Only the district can limit school-sponsored clubs to which students can belong, and in which they can hold officer positions. The idea that the district is helpless to affect what happens in the schools because of demanding parents just doesn’t make sense.

It particularly does not make sense where, as here, student health and safety are concerned. The scientific and medical research establish this beyond any dispute. According to the district’s own mental health service provider, ACS, academic stress is linked to a host of ills, including “anxiety, withdrawal, aggression, physical illness, drug and alcohol use, and depression.” (see acsteens.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/overbooked-under-stress/).

We don’t know the exact right set of changes to make to reduce the stress on our students. But if the district, including both the school board and the senior paid leadership, don’t seriously investigate the question of which structural features of our high schools need to change to relieve student stress then we won’t ever solve the problem and our kids will continue to suffer. It is worth noting that when the district surveyed students in preparing its 2008 strategic plan, the single most frequent complaint from students was of academic stress, including “homework load, expectations and competition.”

The interventions that have been adopted thus far all focus on teaching students coping strategies for stress that has already occurred. This is not the same as reforming the structure of the schools to reduce the amount of stress that is being imposed. Both are important, and both are needed to address our current crisis.

For a perceptive analysis of what’s going on, see the comment from Paly Student from Crescent Park above. We just hope he or she is wrong that parents won’t hold the district accountable.

I just remember of a perfect example of how the schools do not listen to parents. It has been said here that it is the tiger’s mom fault, but this is not always the case. We cannot generalize. I know many parents complain when their kids are not accepted on AP classes, but in my case it was the opposite and my request was ignored.
My son applied to take 3 AP classes at Gunn, he was denied one. I told him that it was ok, and that I felt better that he had only two APs. However, he appealed the desicion because he was in the rat race and wanted to be like his friends who took a lot AP. I spoke to his cunselor and ask her to talk to the persons who make the desicions and told her that it was ok not to give him 3 AP class just two. Later he got a letter that he got into the 3 classes. I felt like it was going to be too much, and it was, he was under a lot of stress, went to bed very late doing homework, sometimes he did not sleep at all. One day I that he stayed awake all night doing homework, I did not let him go to school and told him “go back to your room and sleep.”He said, mom this is nothing. My friends do it every day, and some times they have to take pills in order to stay awake. He stayed home that day, and slept all day. In these case it was the school’s fault, my son was a minor not mature enough to know what was right for him. I knew and needed the help from the school, but they ignored me. I am wonder how many more mothers like me have done this. The lesson here is that sometimes are not the mothers who want their kids to take that many AP classes, are the kids, but they are minors and the school should listen to parents when they request them not to let them have that many classes. I know for some people 3 might not be a lot, but for me it was. And it proved when he was not able to sleep, develop stress and anxiety. Yes it is not just the district fault, but I the school does not back me up, then it is time to change things for our kids, at least the ones whose mothers are concerned. And I believe that many are.

“My son applied to take 3 AP classes at Gunn, he was denied one. I told him that it was ok, and that I felt better that he had only two APs. However, he appealed the desicion because he was in the rat race and wanted to be like his friends who took a lot AP. I spoke to his cunselor and ask her to talk to the persons who make the desicions and told her that it was ok not to give him 3 AP class just two..”

It is my understanding that a parent must sign the application for AP classes at both High Schools, so a parent must have supported the idea of 3 AP classes. I know that I had to sign for my own child. Therefore, you can’t blame the school in this case. The school DENIED the request and told the student (through the denial) that it was too much for him. He chose to appeal the decision, but the parent wanted to school to be the one to say “no” once again. It seems that in this case the parent needed to say to the child that he cannot appeal that the parent SUPPORTS the original decision of the school. This is exactly what a number of people are talking about when they say the parents are certainly part of the problem. Parents need to parent and set limits for their own student.

there are a few schools in bay area that are similar to gunn and paly.a lot of those are much better than palo alto’s and i believe the students endure much more pressure than in gunn,why have not we seen depression there. it is the palo alto parents, they just want to put their kids in a good school, thinking the school will automatically send their kids to ellite colleges without putting up any efforts by their kids,if this is not the case,why would they stay here complaining it is the fault of school,they can move to other less competitive schools where house cost less and their kids can be stress free parting everyday.why would they stay?the solution is so simple if you can not take it move to other places.

why did you buy into palo alto in the first place?

look at south bay area schools, the palo alto schools are the most diversified good schools to be found out there.we do not have much choice, if you want good schools and avoid too much competition,that is the only choice we have. think about cupertino school,saratoga schools, fremont schools, those schools are even more depressing place to be.if you do not care you can go to los altos high, where the highest college for the kids are ucla ucberkerley, and there are only a very few to get in.so what can we do if we do not choose palo alto?

that was a long time ago,time has changed.we all need to adjust ourselves to the current situation and survive.even though you can afford to sell your home without cost, where can you go to find a good school(very important coz you do not want your kid to be friend with a large quantities of pot smoking pals) without competition.

Charter school would be could, but Skelly will never allow a charter school. Remember he had said no to MI, and when he was threatened with a Charter school, he backed up in his decision. I believe the reason for not allowing a charter school is that it will attract people from other cities who are not tax payers. However, asking for one, might make him find a solution to our issues.

Wow, Daubers, your Palo Alto reality is not mine or my kids’. Not everything occupying a student’s time is school-related. Music lessons, many sports teams (e.g. CYSA soccer, AAU basketball), faith activities, community theater — there are all time commitments that fall outside the purview of the PAUSD, which cannot limit how a student spends time out of school. Sure, they could put things on paper to make it look like they’re “doing something.” But to what end?

The Daubers’ persistent refusal to acknowledge that parents share ownership here just plain boggles my mind. Parents have to sign AP forms. Parents have to sign permission forms for many extracurricular activities, too. Parents control how kids spend their time, including on homework. Own it, parents! If your kid is stressed, it is NOT the fault of the schools alone! I said it before, and I’ll say it again: we can ALL do better here. The PAUSD could limit homework, and should, with some teeth. I hope the school board hears that. Maybe the AP “max” restrictions are realistic, too. But if they do all of that, and kids are still stressed out, what happens then? It’s always “someone else’s” problem, isn’t it?

It’s hard to accept that this is Silicon Valley. We’re always on, and so are our kids. And we’re in California, where no one seems to say “no” anymore to their kids (it’s not positive discipline!). The only way off of this hamster wheel is to move or to opt out, e.g. Middle College. Or, we can just have parents who actually parent rather than point and blame. Personally, I think that would solve nearly everything.

they are calling him to resign,so was governor arnold better than davis?maybe even worse.

* Same as above but with less mistakes and typos* Sorry

Just tell your kids that it’s OK to have Bs.

My children took AP classes because they wanted to, but they knew it was OK to bring Bs home for grades. They were never overly stressed by school.

My oldest, with less than perfect grades, could not go to any Ivy league school, or to UCLA or to UC Berkeley, of course. Said child ended up going to a “lesser” UC that people in Palo Alto just despise. I almost received condolences from other parents because that child was going there! (I am not kidding). But, my child had a balanced life (including APs!), and meaningful after-school activities (although no school clubs whatsoever)… So what happened to that child afterward Paly?

College went very well. My child also landed good internships on the strength of a well-rounded resume. This child now works in a prestigious firm with, as colleagues, many “tiger cubs” from such colleges as UCLA and renowned private universities… and this child does better than them at work. Just saying.

Again, just tell your kids it’s OK to have Bs.

I know that many parents are not OK with Bs…. Ken and Michele, you’d better believe it. There are many such parents in Palo Alto, that push and push their kids, don’t accept any Bs, and “engineer” their college applications. There are many kids who take upper lane classes after learning all the curriculum outside of school. It is no myth! You find them again in college, and you find the tiger parents in college again as well (!), writing or editing their college kids’ papers for them!! (My kids can testify to that). But guess what? Many, many of these tiger cubs end up collapsing one day. If it’s not in college, it’s when they start working.

Oh, did I say that you should tell your kids it’s OK to have Bs?

I don’t understand the Daubers’ op-ed at all. If a child’s academic stress is so great that it affects their mental health, then the parents should not sign the permission slips. It may affect their child’s college application prospects, but the parent should put their priorities in the right place.

So much of college acceptances are based on other factors, parents should be setting their child’s expectations.

Even better, I said to my kids that it is ok to have a C or lower grade as long as see that they are trying. However the schools do not want Cs as soon as they see one they call me to meetings. I would get upset, if they low grades than grade and it is because they did not want to sit down and do homework or if the teachers were complaining that they were fooling around at school, or being disruptive or respectful to the teachers or other students.

Daubers,

I am sorry that your reply did not acknowledge that the proof you cited for many of your arguments in your Opinion piece was suspect, but I do appreciate that you shared your source for your academic stress –> depression point.

The problem is that ACS does not cite its authority for that point. However, elsewhere on ACS’ site it links to the Mayo Clinic’s overview of depression which flatly states that while there are many theories “it’s not known exactly what causes depression.”

ACS links to information that helps us understand teen stress and what we can/should do about it:

1. There are Many Sources of Teen Stress.

Its list goes on for a page, including “being bullied •relationship stress, family conflicts • ongoing problems with schoolwork related to a learning disability or other problems, such as ADHD (usually once the problem is recognized and the person is given the right learning support the stress disappears) • crammed schedules, not having enough time to rest and relax, and always being on the go. . . “

Just like Challenge Success, Palo Alto and PAUSD student surveys repeatedly show – academics cannot be singled out as the sole or even primary culprit.

2. Different Kids Handle Stress Differently.

“Some people have anxiety problems that can cause them to overreact to stress, making even small difficulties seem like crises. If a person frequently feels tense, upset, worried, or stressed, it may be a sign of anxiety. Anxiety problems usually need attention, and many people turn to professional counselors for help in overcoming them.”

While a 3 or 4 AP load is grueling work for one student, the student at the next desk over may be breezing through it; APs cannot be blamed. If your child has an anxiety problem, make adjustments (see below) and get him professional help.

3. There are Ways to Effectively Deal with Stress.

First: “Consider cutting out an activity or two, opting for just the ones that are most important to you.”

Second: “Be realistic. Don’t try to be perfect — no one is.”

Further Down: “Watch what you’re thinking – is your cup half full or half empty?” Blame does not help.

No recommendations for school districts to revise academic policies or calendars. No suggestion that parents mount a public campaign to fire a Superintendent who doesn’t embrace their one-size fits all solution.

What then? Take personal responsibility and make wise choices based on your child’s particular needs.

http://kidshealth.org/teen/your_mind/emotions/stress.html

I will say it again. I agree, we have poor leadership. I don’t blame Skelly, but I do blame the Board of Education.

We need Board members who are able to make decisions. Skelly is able to do so much, but it is the Board Members who take forever to make decisions and then change their minds.

MI, Garland, Boundaries, Everyday Math, Calendars, are all excellent examples of how they dither.

3 Board Members are timed out this year. Let’s get some tough questions for the candidates and then hold them accountable.

Please – friends and neighbors – let’s not put our collective head in the sand. Even if your own particular family has it worked out, just look at your children’s teammates, classmates, friends, or neighbors. Something is off! Other communities full of smart, ambitious people are not suffering with teen suicides, attempted suicides, and suicidal thoughts the way we are.

The Daubers took a risk and took a stand, made their own views public. They believe leadership is not doing enough. Many think parents need to re-orient their thinking. Both are probably right. Please, if you don’t like one solution, don’t just dismiss the problem. Keep the conversation going.

part of learning process is to obtain the knowledge than apply those knowledge to solve the unfamiliar problems.you do not want to see you child just to learn not to think independently to solve the problem,this is very critical in real life.to creat and to solve new problem,maybe the other school just taught students knowledge not prepared for them to do in real world.

we can not change this process in the near future,but one area the school can do for us is that they need to make our school known by those university offices nationally not just locally,they should know palo alto school’s B or C is worth much more than other school’s A.

Parent – Many universities all over the country know how rigorous Palo Alto schools are. The Paly counselors travel all over to meet with admissions officers.

Unfortunately, we (all the parts of the equation) have created an atmosphere that not only creates stress but also makes high school all about the grades and building a resume for colleges apps. Learning is way down the priority list.

Patricia, Old PA

it’s interesting that your comment surrounds what is actually Off limits here, teachers.

“Her chief complaint was that the tests bore no resemblance to the homework and what was “taught” by the teacher.”

Admins can’t do anything about the homework issue, and even if they did, you can’t enforce it.

your daughter is a strong student and knows herself by now, but many kids at all grade levels are made to feel stupid with situations like this, and many give up,

in a system as competitive as Palo Alto, where likely 1/2 or more of the class that your daughter dropped out of have an A without batting an eye, most because they know how to work the system and around it, the climate can get heavy

not asking A’s for everyone, but teachers are inconsistent and are not really managed by anyone,

does that serve everyone well?

if a school is managed in a way to keep 4000 generally comfortable or happy, no problem,

but we have schools that do not appear solid in how they are run for these sizes, curriculums, or particular culture

I think a more general question is “how to prepare the students for the future competition”.

Many people complain the stress of the students in schools, but do not know they actually need some pressure to study hard to face the future competition. A good amount of stress is helpful for them to prepare future competition. On the other hand, school and parents should do whatever possible to help them overcome the stress and positively face the competition with good effort in study.

In my case, I was actually surprised to be told by a consular at Gunn that the 10th grade students cannot take AP class while it is allowed in many other schools across California and US. (As we knew later that Gunn actually allowed some students to take AP classes at 10th grade. I think the consular lied to us.) So my son’s 10th grade courses were light and he had a lot of energy for computer games and other things. As a result, he had to choose a lot of AP and honor classes at 11th and 12th grades to make his transcript appealing for some elite schools. So in his case, 9th and 10th grades were very easy and 11th and 12th are “stressful”. If the school could balance the course schedule throughout the high school years, he would have been more balanced in “stress”.

A parent said the problem was caused by the admission requirement of the elite colleges such as Stanford. He/she thinks the elite school should use other standards to choose incoming students. I think it is not correct. The colleges have to do so in order to better compete with other schools. The point behind this selection is that the correlation between success and the academic excellence is very good statistically. You can give me some counter-examples backward looking into a person’s past, but the fact is that the colleges have to identify good students among so many high school graduates nationwide. Every college needs to find the emerging talented students to make the school stronger. How to measure if a student is talented? Beside transcripts, student activities, and SAT/ACT scores, can you give me a better metric? In the end, we have to use the study and statistics as a guidance.

As a parent, we have to acknowledge that there is no easy path for our children to be successful without hard working in today’s environment. (Even you have a good fortune and family tie that can help your children, you may still need to let them work hard through school years, just like what Rockefeller did with his children.) The science and math education in US is already behind many countries such as China. If we still want our children to have an easy life in high school, how can they compete with the people from other countries?

I think it is worth mentioning something I read in one of the many books I have read over the years on this idea of stress (and I wish I could remember which one it came from).

We all have pressures in our lives, whether it being from getting stuck in traffic and being late for a meeting, a doctor’s appointment, or late for school. In fact it is true to say that pressure in life is good for us, the deadline for a particular project, the minimum acceptable for passing a drivers’ test, the security screening at the airport. But it is how we deal with these pressures that causes stress. Even some levels of stress make us thrive and are acceptable. It is when these levels of stress cause deep anxiety and make our lives unbearable that it becomes dangerous. Learning to deal with all the pressures and even low stress management are good life skills. Knowing when low level stress turns into deep anxiety is what we must strive for and finding the skills to deal with pressures and low stress is what we should be aiming for. This should also be what we are preparing in our kids so it is healthy for them to have pressures and low level stress. But we need them to know the difference and when the time comes they need to be able to ask us and others for the help to reduce the stressful anxiety in their lives.

I think we are talking about that difference here.

Stanford is having its own problems with teenage stress not being dealt with correctly with those that are now college aged. In the past couple of years we have heard of these. One student who drove from Stanford for an hour, bought some pills in a drugstore and quietly committed suicide in the trunk of her car. Another was so distressed at not getting accepted that she actually managed to pretend she was a student, living on campus and attending classes, and not facing the reality of her situation to either herself or family.

These extreme cases could just as easily have happened to a PAUSD graduate.

We do need to reexamine our priorities and teaching norms.

To Taxes are too high,
Very well said. I love your analogy. Yes we grown ups find a way out of stressful situations, even if our spouses do not agree. Children can’t. They get stack and feel like no one cares, and their only way out for them is suicide. So sad. It is time to help our kids. I Skelly is not willing to listen to those parents who are concerned and provide alternative solution, he should let his seat for someone else who is willing to do it. Someone who do not say this is a hard issue, or I do not want to tell the principals what to do. Come on, he is our leader. My children really dislike him.
And yes, taxes are too high to expect less. Our children should get the best. The leaders shall invest on the whole child, not just academics.

To all of you complaining about the high levels of stress your kids are facing. What specifically have you done about it other than blame the schools and say that nothing will change. Do you talk to the teachers (and I mean talk constructively, not go in and bulldoze them down)? Do you tell your child they don’t have to take 4 APs because it is not important to you that they go to an Ivy League school or Cal or Stanford? Do you praise your child when they get a B or C and you know it is their best work? Do you brag when your child does well and not mention when they get a B (which is still above average anywhere else)? Do you volunteer in the schools and the communities and ask what you can do to effect change? I could go on and on. Please, if you want change, go out and make it. Action, not words. Writing that you would like someone to resign because you don’t like what is going on for your child, is not my idea of action, either.

Anne

hearing “the money is there”

that’s scary

board meetings always seem so self-congratulatory, a love fest when the Principals are there, nobody is an independent thinker, a culture of “insiders” everyone in it together

the best question I saw from the St. Mark’s forum was

15. Where are the teachers tonight?

Everyday Math was an example where the Principals and teachers have the power, they call the shots, the new Principals at Paly and Gunn are beholden to Skelly, nobody dares to challenge anything, only the students

Student, I am glad you benefited from the AP classes, but to what expenses? the dead of only 5 students, and others who had already graduated and in college. Is it worth it? You should had been at the Church meeting where Miranda, a former PAUSD student gave her testimony about how much she was stressed out at Gunn with AP classes, but now, she is just taken time off from Cornell University. She said it was not really worth it, that she could had probably been accepted without the AP classes. Please keep an eye on your level of stress, and do not brag about how good you are, that is the kind of message that makes other students who are not as good as you are, to try to get into the same number of AP classes you are into, because no one wants to feel less. You should keep things to yourself and your family. Not everyone can do it.

Glad Things,
Please don’t tell students they should “keep things to yourself and your family” because their opinions and experiences differ from yours. Everyone should have a chance to share because that gives a more complete picture.

do you want your kids to be around those good school mates or do you want to surround your kids with a bunch of pot smokers?at least those good kids will help your kids to look at right things to do in their lives,hopefully will increase their willingness to keep up and try more.we should encourage them to look at the good examples,but it is ok to get B or C coz it is still way better than A in other schools, and also your kids will get the sense of how to better themselves in real life.

i know at least in one case,it was emotion related,because of love or heart broken,so we need to learn from our community’s tragic events,not to blame anyone.

Eco Mama

“pressure we (parents) put on schools to be sensitive to workloads”

what pressure? parents have no voice about workloads

please list improvements that have resulted from parent pressure?

teachers are not accountable to parents, and nothing is enforceable about workloads, or classroom practices

the time I have left between homework loads and school is not that much.

There seems to be a culture of super parents here as well. the parents that maintain balance and are perfect, parents organized enough to have their kids learn everything before it’s actually taught

Me Too replied to the Daubers with “ At its core, your approach seems more concerned with addressing the jealously or bitterness that some may feel (you?) “

that statement alone tells me the climate is really messed up

I happen to think that something like TEAM or smaller schools with schools, each with own counselor and Principal to better look out for everyone is important. And I don’t think doing something like training youth to counsel other youth to survive the stress is appropriate.

To “other happy Paly parent”:
There is no “name calling” in the editorial. The fact that you don’t agree with the authors doesn’t mean that they are doing anything inappropriate by stating their view. In fact, the only name calling I see here in this entire forum is against “tiger cubs” by…um, you.

I also agree with Gunn senior. My child found the AP classes to be the most enjoyable and interesting classes at Gunn. While challenging, those courses didn’t demand any busywork. The homework was always manageable and interesting. Please don’t assume that limiting AP classes would improve Gunn.

Who got the block schedule done at Paly?

I get the feeling it must have been a handful of brave souls who had to work hard for it, that’s leadership, does anyone know whose idea that was?? they need more credit

Several people have said we need fresh leadership from the BOE. Did any of you run for school board at the last election? What, no? Because as I recall the 2 incumbents ran unopposed. That’s right. In our large school district no one else stepped forward. But now there are plenty of critics. Lots of PA parents seem to have answers, but few want to be real leaders. I am grateful for the BOE members we do have who try their best to do what they think is right for the district. If you disagree, run for school board!

I couldn’t believe anyone would think it was a good idea to lower AP offerings. Good grief. Some kids thrive on them, others don’t. Others will never take a single one.

So what? I believe in choice…some kids need and want the APs, some kids need and want good voc ed.

Strengthen the voc ed options for the non-college bound, and we will strengthen the school.

Opportunity is the key, not limiting choices. Control over one’s options, as a poster said above, is the key. If the only “choice” is college or no college with no other choices, then there is a lot more stress.

And figure out a way to allow all kids to take a real break between semesters so that they all can rest and re-charge.

The situation in HS is a bit more complex. Some of us see how a lot of elements combine for a stressful experience.
Oh, by the way, it is not a case of either you have a gifted kid who takes 7 APs easily and sails through versus a kid who is a “B” student, like some condescending types seem to enjoy portraying here.
Really, there are a lot of high achievers who just have lived a more natural life and who haven’t been prepped by Tiger Moms (paid prepping for yrs in advance of AP and top math coursess, take courses parents direct = maximum one can fit in, top-calibre summer education, yrs of SAT prepping which raises scores 30 pts etc.) — in fact, these THINGS matter as competition tightens and add up though they also represent a calculated plan on the part of parents. The high achievers are made to feel they better rush to join in the game or they may feel it is rather hopeless (seen in the immediate context of peers who constantly discuss their grades, SAT scores, etc.) A return to manners and privacy in the matter of grades would do a lot to improve school atmosphere. It is fine for school administration to publicize the list of National Merit Scholars each year, but when “top” students constantly publice their stats, it can get overly disheartening for those with better taste and manners who were taught to be more modest. Again, I know top performers who showed dignity, but I am sorry to say I also knew some who had incredible advantages and who did not behave with dignity.
How about the PALY 2008 student grad speaker — a “student leader” and “high achiever” who took a coveted spot at a local famous university in Palo Alto…and who also was discovered to be a plagiarist? This was an awful role model for the younger high school students who were acutely aware of the rewards this student received, without penalty. We need administrators, parents, teachers who NEVER endorse cheating, plagiarism and other unethical behaviors.
Thank you for reading.
I would prefer a situation where above average achievers are not constantly bragged to by certain of the “top” students, who after all have been given (or forced to utilize)multiple costly advantages by their parents. Just a few points make a difference when applying to highly rated universities and the naive (though perhaps quite deserving student/parents) may be indeed surprised by the competition that others have carefully planned for. Universities cannot offer to everyone at PALY or Gunn owing to geographic diversity needs. It is not easy for colleges to recognize self-directed students who have done their own work, but there seems to be increasing recognition of this problem.
By the way, it IS true a lot of HS students stay up crazy hours, post they have a lot of work to do (err…they are using social media as they do this…) and it intensifies the beliefs of other students that only the “cool” high achievers have “so much work to do” that they must stay up all night. One more thing – I never excused my kids from school (including in such cases as staying up all night to perfect a paper, etc.) though I am shocked to read some parents did play this game, which I view as unethical.

As I read these postings, I realize that there are a lot of disagreements about the source of the social emotional issues that are affecting our students. Some people think is the parents fault, others the tigers moms, teachers or the school officials. We have only heard abou students who died, but many of us ignored that many attempts have occurred, not just one of two, and not just at the tracks. Some students have tried pills, guns, and so on. We need to come to our sensed and accept the fact is that the school system is not working for a lot of kids and are loosing our students for whatever reason, and many are feeling mentally ill as a result of how hard live has been for them. We all, the community, parents, teachers school officials and friends need to do something about it. It is not ok to point the finger to someone else and hope it will be resolved. Some how we are all involved in this mess. It is everybody’s fault that we have not been able to help our students and students continue to suffer and their only way out is to die.

To choices,
You are right, the school system has been set up for high achievers, and there is nothing for the ones who learn slower. This is what we need to work on. There are many children who have special needs, they go to school and hear their friends (if they have any, sometimes high achiever do not want friends who are stupid), they hear them brag about where they are going to college. They hear some of the teachers who said community college at for losers (my special ed child’s regular teacher said this to the class), how can they feel proud to go to community college? Also we (adults) often ask students: where are you applying to college?, if they name a good school we often say: that is a great school, bla, bla, bla. What happens when the child says I am going to community college than if the child is lucky she the adult will respond: “oh, ok”. Or why? we all need to change, how we react when a child says to what college they go to and congratulate them just by the fact that they survived and came out in on peace from PAUSD high schools. Do not make so much fuss about going to good or bad universities, or not going at all. We also need to stop putting the names of the colleges students are going, they do this at Gunn they also put the list of the colleges students are not going. I know a child that was not going to college at all, but just so she would not look dumb she put the name of a university in los Angeles (I can’t think the name).

Yes, the board members and Skelly, have a big part in this problem. Parents have come to address the board about problems that have occurred with bad teachers, but they can’t be touched them just turn the their ear to the other side. Just and example of this: A child was afraid of her teacher who had really bad discipline skills, and she often threatened the students who did not pay attention with poking their eyes ball out of their sockets. Nothing was done, she still continues to teach even though they know she is not a good teacher. They do not give her a class to herself but she teaches part time here and there. She works at Juana Briones and Barron Park. She has not more chance to hurt more children at once not just 20 per year. Also how about the elementary music teacher. There had been multiple complains, verbal writing and in person, the teacher still teach. At this point she is my child’s teacher and she does not like that she scream and is rude, but she stays there because she wants to learn. There had been times when the principal’s anwer to a complain about this techer was “you can quit if you are not happy with the teacher. The child was like my daughter, and told the principal that she will stay, but his friends saw her cry in class many times. Shame on the district, principals, and school officials for not protecting our kids.

This is one of the most misleading articles that I ever read. Any people who has common sense would not believe the conclusion that offering more AP classes would cause more mental problems of the students.

AP classes are only choices of students. Offering more choices is always better than less or no choices. This is the same as offering a variety of sport utilities at school. The students may or may not take the advantages of using these sport utilities. But nobody can draw a conclusion that these sport utilities may cause mental health problems to the students who are physically less competent.

The author said that “The evidence connecting academic stress to adolescent depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation is overwhelming.” Does it mean that Harker School which offers twice as AP classes as Paly, or any schools ranked academically higher in the Newsweeks should have even higher suicidal rate?

The depression of students is a severe problem that nobody in this neighborhood should ignore. However, both Kevin Skelly and AP classes have nothing to do with it.

can our school community to step out when the city approves the big housing projects. this is the root of our problem the school is getting too big.

To Pot calling Kettle:

I took the expression “tiger cub” from the lady who wrote “Battle hymn of the Tiger Mother”… and did not mean it to be name calling, only a short cut to describe a certain kind of students that does exist. However, if I offended anyone using this term, I am sorry.

When I mentioned name calling, I was not necessarily referring to the editorial but to all the comments. Here are a few of a the phrases that I was referring to. I think they are offensive and have no place in a debate to improve our schools:

“It is not solely Skelly who is a poor leader, but our BoE who can’t lead.”

“Kevin Skelly isn’t my favorite person. He’s not the best leader, he cow tows to the parents,”

“Dr. Skelly made it clear that their is a long history of the principal’s having autonomy but does he have no leadership ability to say we need a change.”

“one thing with Skelly. His mind is always made up. He doesn’t value input.”

And on and on, this are just a few examples. I fail to see how making such statements will improve the situation.

Happy Other Paly Parent

As the person who used the first phrase you quoted as namecalling, I would like to defend my use of the phrase.

I said that the BoE can’t lead, which to me is not name calling. I said that they couldn’t lead and gave examples of areas where they have shown that they could not lead, or make a firm decision. MI, boundaries, Garland, calendar, and Everyday Math are all recent hot button topics on which we have suffered from poor leadership.

Could I have done better? No, but then I am not in a position whereby I have run a political campaign, won enough votes to win, and sat on a BoE where I was expected to make decisions to benefit the children of this district. However, I do expect better leadership from those who have claimed to want it, be good at it, and at least several have chosen to do so a second time. I also have not spent as much time with data and experts to give me knowledge to do this effectively.

I know it is easy to sit on the sidelines, on this side of a computer screen, and type away criticisms. But, this is what this forum is designed for. What I have done is to keep my ears and eyes open over the last umpteen years my kids have been in Palo Alto schools and use some common sense in judging what is going on, and to admit when I was wrong or didn’t feel qualified to have an opinion on an issue.

If you think that our BoE are strong leaders, then you are entitled to your opinion. I have cited my reasons for thinking otherwise, and I am entitled to mine. I don’t call that name calling.

One Gunn Mom:
The allocation of the best teachers to the most competitive classes is a serious problem at Gunn as well — the kids who need the most help are getting less good teachers. This is another failure of leadership. The administration needs to assign teachers based on what works for students, not on what the teachers would prefer. Every teacher would rather teach highly-motivated, ambitious students. It’s easier! But this isn’t Phillips Exeter. It’s a public school in which every child deserves a teacher appropriate to his or her needs. One result of this misallocation of resources is that those children who need academic support are least likely to get it from the less talented teachers assigned to their lane.
The message to the students once again is: get on the treadmill and run. The best teachers are teaching the kids up ahead of you.

James Z,
It would help if you would actually read the things I wrong before responding to them. I said, “WHILE I AM WITH YOU THAT TAKING AWAY OPPORTUNITIES ISN’T THE ANSWER”… i.e., I AGREE WITH YOU THAT TAKING AWAY OPPORTUNITIES — APs — IS NOT THE ANSWER. Please do me the courtesy of actually reading what I wrote before spouting off an angry retort that doesn’t even deal with what is wrong and clearly demonstrates that you don’t understand anything I wrote.

Secondly, the issue of connectedness is not about Kevin Skelley having a connection to the students. That is why I gave you a link to an academic paper defining connectedness — again, you should stick with making angry retorts about things you have bothered to understand first — because “connectedness” is a specific, studied phenomenon that has a particular meaning. It’s student connectedness within a school, not to a school administration!

The fact is, when young people consider suicide (because they are depressed or otherwise), they are less likely to ACT ON THOSE THOUGHTS if they are in an environment with higher “connectedness” at school. When we decide to build huge schools, we know from research that this factor of “connectedness” will suffer and so will the students.

The vast majority of research on school quality points toward spending money to make more reasonably-sized schools, not larger ones. How do you feel about 800 more students on campus competing to enroll in those AP classes so that your child can’t take the ones s/he wants? Or that math scores will almost certainly suffer in such a large school?

I am FOR as much opportunity as we can give these kids. And I am for an environment that gives them the most support and the best chance of succeeding, which does NOT mean making mega sized schools, especially spending tens of millions extra to do it simply because we haven’t had the leadership to consider the options! (Let me say this again, did you understand that I AGREE that APs are not the problem? If you still have not done so, please actually read my posts before responding.)

The fact is, Kevin Skelley decided that we were going to build larger schools before we even voted on measure A. He never did any due diligence in comparing options. He never tried to educate or involve the public on the implications and costs of these mega schools. He never changed course when all of these enrollment surprises developed. He’s talked about buying a very expensive plot of land adjacent to Cubberley in competition with a developer but not buying back the land at Cubberely that the city is willing to let us have back, cheap. (I personally would like to see the district buy BOTH, but not so they just sit on them.)

I would be frankly be more pleased to see the leadership coming from Skelley than to remove him, but I keep waiting and it’s just not forthcoming.

Many of the problems we are having in the construction, in resolving these problems, in doing what is best for our students, comes from people spouting off without facts. Please consider learning the facts (and listening to others) in these discussions before going off about it, there are difficult enough things to hash out with everyone on the same page.

In the above I meant to say
“huge schools present SYSTEMIC challenges to creating and keeping a good community, to maintaining academic quality,…” etc.

How can we get attention to the Third High School idea? It seems to have no traction other than on these forums.

If what Observer is saying is true, which I do not know, but I have read here before, why doesn’t one of the savvy attorney parents in PAUSD sue to stop construction? Is this a microcosm of the march toward the Iraq war? (ok. poor analogy, so I apologize in advance)

Parents,

The third High School was studied by a special group–the High School Task Force about 4 years ago. The group included parents, community members and administrators. They met frequently for over a year and made the recommendation to make the 2 high schools bigger rather than open a 3rd high school. I believe this all happened before Skelly was hired. If you are not familiar with the report, you should ask the district for the report. This was well publicized in the school community.

On of the reasons for not opening a 3rd HS was the inability to have sufficient range or selection of AP classes–the larger the school, the more offerings you can have, and no one wants to offer fewer selections, which is what you would have to do if you went down in enrollment at Paly or Gunn.

If they were to reopen Cubberly, they would have to completely rebuild it. And the overhead–principal, counselors, support staff, etc would be very expensive. A lot of schools are being asked to consolidate to save overhead costs.

You need to stay informed on HS issues especially when your kids are in grade school cause changes take so long. If you have not, the train has left the station!

Observer: I am a (married) parent. One kid is a freshman in college and another is a junior at Paly. I work in Marcomm (my own business) and I remodel houses as an advocation. I have volunteered at my kids’ schools from K-12. I am not employed by PAUSD, nor do I perform any professional work for PAUSD.

Don’t get personal and make unfounded accusations. It’s ugly and unnecessary.

No offense, but I find your posting and “statement of facts” to be inaccurate. I have assembled just a small list of items where verifiable facts or statements show much different than what you claim.

Please read the entire Measure A document (approved by the PAUSD BoE in Feb 2008). Nowhere does it mention Cubberly or Garland by name. To make sure that my eyes did not deceive me, I also did a word search via Acrobat.

For each school category (Elementary, Middle School + Gunn & Paly), the first bullet point says: “Construct new permanent classrooms and classroom buildings to accommodate enrollment growth and expanded programs.”

You can’t be any clearer than that.

See for yourself:

http://pausd.org/community/StrongSchoolsBond/downloads/Bond%20Project%20List%20FINAL.pdf

There is one bullet point (out of over 70) that mentions an option to buy land or refurbish district-owned buildings (if funding allows). One bullet point.

Contrary to your opinion, the bond document is “clearly crafted” towards the purpose of improving and expanding the current/active campuses; not re-opening currently held properties such as Cubberly or Garland.

Is there a professional definition of what a mega-school is? What is the enrollment level for such a school? Just curious.

According to the latest C-BED results (11/2010), Paly enrollment is 1850; Gunn is 1911.

Local public HS that have similar academic performance (API):
Monta Vista 2417
Homestead 2230
M-A 2027
Mountain View 1826
Cupertino 1810
Lynbrook 1776
Los Gatos 1703
Los Altos 1631

Not nearly on the same academic level, but just for grins…largest school in Santa Clara County is Independence at 3465.

According to edsource.org – 2010 Calif. average HS size was 1580. Urban schools averaged close to 2000. Suburban 1100. Rural 650. We could debate this, but we are closer to “urban” than “suburban” if you consider population density. Largest CA HS is over 5000, located in LA.

I do not wish to be confrontational, but I believe your arguments about availability of information, meetings, agendas, etc. are also inaccurate.

For example, look at what information is available just for Paly:

http://paly.net/facilities/

As far as I can tell, every facilities steering committee meeting is followed closely by a community meeting.

If you’re on the Internet (which you are), you do not have to look very hard for any source of Measure A information…including agendas, plans, drawings, etc.

40 years ago, the high schools only had grades 10, 11 & 12, and each grade had around 425 – 450 students.

Fast forward to today, and the high schools have graded 9 – 12, and Paly has 1850 students, which works out to about 450 per grade.

@change up

There are Parent Education events all the way throughout K-12. These are run by the PTA. Get involved in your school’s PTA and help set the topics. Palo Alto PTA Council also puts on timely events across a broad range of development issues. In High School, both Gunn and Paly have Parent Network groups for each grade for parents to get together and discuss parenting issues and share experiences. If you do not know about these vast resources, you need to get connected.

> You can’t be any clearer than that.

The Measure A Bond documentation was intended to “wow” people and get votes. However, towards the end of the ballot language, there was one little statement that said: “The PAUSD does not have to construct any/all of the projects on this list” (or words to that effect). The list was required by Prop.39, so that a 55% majority (rather than a 2/3rds majority) could secure a win.

Other school districts have passed Prop.39 elections, and then ignored the promised improvements. Sadly, the Courts have been very lenient on school districts, granting them a “pass” when it comes to telling the voters one thing, and then doing what they want.

Don’t expect much of the Measure A list to be built, as specified in the ballot language.

Men make history and not the other way around. In periods where there is no leadership, society stands still. Progress occurs when courageous, skillful leaders seize the opportunity to change things for the better.
Harry S. Truman

To all Palo Alto Parents
Small or third school is not going to be offered by the district unless we demand for it. Are we ready to go and plant the seed? It is not going to happen overnight, so it is a little late to start for our high school students, but hopefully it will help the now elementary schools, or middle school students. Who want to go for it. Let’s make the high schools a better place for them. I know there are other schools that are more crowded than Gunn in other places, but this is Palo Alto, a city that is recognized for the quality of education, we cannot fail our students. They deserve the best, like every other students, but unfortunately the ones in other cities, might not have parents who can make changes. This should not be the case of Palo Alto.

Why is it that when Paly does something everyone expects that Gunn should do it? We like our counselors and we like our rotating schedule. Why doesn’t Paly adopt our structure?

Steve,

You wrote:
“Everybody take a deep breath. My Senior class at Cubberley had 425 students in 1975.”
and
“Paly and Gunn are not Mega Schools, if they were smaller, fewer offerings would be available”

This is exactly the problem — people pushing for what we should do based on opinions that have absolutely no facts or understanding behind them.

Per current research on high school size, “optimal” is 600-900, up to 1500 or so in high SES areas (high socio-economic status), which PA would count as. That’s precisely because at 1500 students offerings can be optimized (against competition for those offerings in a much larger school).

Research also shows that around 2100 students, quality measures elbow sharply down. Community suffers. Bullying gets worse. “Connectedness” gets worse. The achievement gaps widens. In typical schools, competition for extracurriculars gets worse, not better. A 2100 student school is very different than even an 1800 student school. And certainly, a 2500 student school (which our administration is aiming for) is another thing altogether.

Are there outlier mega schools? Sure. Most of the time when I see people pointing to those outliers, there are glaring differences, mostly that those other schools have restricted enrollments based on academic measures. We should not be banking on being an outlier, especially with everything that has happened in the last few years. Why spend money to increase rather than decrease the systemic challenges to our success as a school district?

For people concerned with educational quality, the evidence points to downsizing to 1500 students, not going for the mega schools (meaning, 2100 students and up).

Gunn and Paly, at about 1800-1900 students each NOW are not YET meg schools — BUT WE ARE FACING LARGE ENROLLMENT INCREASES IN PALO ALTO, AND THE MEASURE A CONSTRUCTION BEING PLANNED, FOR WHICH WE WILL SPEND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, IS PUTTING TENS OF MILLIONS EXTRA JUST INTO CONSTRUCTION FEATURES TO MAKE GUNN AND PALY MEGA SCHOOLS.

I hope your post made you feel better, to air your past grievances, but your conclusions are aimed at real children in this area who will not have the benefits YOU had if everyone keeps spouting such drivel.

You had a senior class of 425 — that means Cubberley was 1700 students? Just a bit smaller than Gunn and Paly are now. You never had to contend with a mega school yourself. You had what is pretty close to an OPTIMALLY SIZED school — and you are criticizing people who don’t want to waste tens of millions building mega schools for their kids, wasting the opportunity to make three optimally sized schools in this town?

I’m sorry, but that’s a lot of nerve. You take your own advice and take a deep breath next time before writing something so uninformed.

This is precisely why the administration should be opening a dialog with the public about such important issues before the money is spent (i.e., now).

The small school discussion is interesting. I don’t have a strong feeling about the right answer there – I can see merit in what we have as well as smaller schools.

But there is a practical consideration in these discussions. The lead time to make these decisions is very long – especially in Palo Alto. Our schools were (are) in need of real work – updating, expansion, and improvement are long overdue. That was the point of the current bond – to fund (half) of a facilities plan around current buildings. The bond does allow for new facilities too — it allows for just about anything actually — but the Master Plan that backed up the bond was about current facilities, including a possible renovation of Garland.

If we wanted to add a third high school, I would guess the lead time on that decision would be at least 5 years, probably longer. If that seems like a long time, keep in mind that the discussion of moving high school finals before the holidays has gone on for five years (that I’m aware of) and is not near done – we are still gathering yet more data. And this is for a near cost-less decision, fairly easily reversed, that most districts around us have already implemented. So the debate to permanently change our high school configuration at great expense would take a long time indeed – longer than the tenure of most school board members and Superintendents in fact. After which you do a bond, which you hope passes. After which you plan, then build. My guess is that it takes 10-15 years from the time someone says “we should really try to do this” till the time it is done. And in Palo Alto, it may take longer.

So in terms of the current bond, we either had to push ahead with updating and expanding current facilities or put it all off until we reach (new) consensus on high schools. The decision was apparently made to improve what we have and not put improvements off indefinitely while we debate. That seems prudent to me.

It may still make sense to explore smaller “learning communities” either in new facilities or within existing ones. I’m sure our professional educators have some views on this. But keep in mind that making changes, especially costly facility changes, require a very long runway to bring to fruition.

pa is a small place packed with a lot of people,a lot of high density housing complax are being built or will start to built in the future years. our school system is still struggling to find a better way to handle a healthy and productive enviroment for the current student,should parents and school raise objections when the city proves extra big projects in pa,city should do something about this to limit over-crowding,handling current students well first then consider adding more.

how much does city charge for this school melo-loos. if it is a small portion of a profit for builder,then the city will keep getting those condos. the children of the current owner or renter will suffer.

EcoMama

“My suggestion: I would like to see an expanded school board, perhaps even doubled in size (making its size more in line with many other CA towns), so that there’s a body big enough to have rigorous debate over what to do next. A party of 5 is too small to have big impact and to represent everyone adequately — and when you get a couple of folks on there, like I think we have now, who are all talk and no action, the consequences are dire.”

is this possible?? or total wishful thinking?

at any rate, Daubers, I hope you can run for the board, or any of the parents with an eye to current and future student social emotional health, you have my vote

Me Too,
By the way, it didn’t take the lead times you are suggesting for fixing the mess we are in to make those decisions in teh first place.

Again… we need leadership….

@Observer, not sure what you mean. The leadership we have today produced the current bond, which was long overdue and is now significantly upgrading and expanding our current facilities. There wasn’t much controversy in that plan, as it pretty much kept all the schools in place. But getting a big bond passed is very non-trivial and it was done with a minimum of drama.

I actually think Dr. Skelly does a good job getting things done, given the highly opinionated populace and board that has trouble making hard decisions. When he gets things done (math text, campus expansions), some people complain. When he doesn’t get things done (calender shift), some people complain. Do I detect a pattern here? 😉

Me Too,

oh please, parents and the community deserve credit for the bond

SKelly had barely arrived before the bond, and my recollection is that the importance of schools here, obvious needs, teh funding scare, and the campaign parents ran got the bond passed

and parents could get another bond done, but not sure Skelly would be an asset for that anymore.

By the way, once in office, get rid of the Math Every Day that Cathy Howard workers so hard to put in. She is now retiring, and leaves with the big problem. Most teachers and parents do not like it. Teachers have told us at students conferences that they still learning how to use it, and wish they did not have to, but could loose their job if they don’t. English learners used to shine in math, but not anymore, thanks to Skelly, Becky Vargas, Cathy Howard, and some parents who trusted the district and did not know what they were putting their kids into. Hope when they gone and you Michelle are there, will make changes and get rid of the Math Every Day. And please, please make schools a better place with little or no bullying, and if it occurs put policies in place that take the problem very serious. Not just an apology letter, and out again to bully. Steps to respect at Escondido and at Barron Park do not work, kids get seriously bully there, parents from both schools are complaining about this issue,but they ignore the problem, many of they pulled their kids, out, but would love to bring them back if there were changes. Time to do something abut it. Wouldn’t that be great? Our kids will not have to leave the district because of bad principals and and poor leadership skills.

Me Too,

“maybe we need to examine our following skills.”

you have a point that my handle is strident , but it started as a response to Teacher and mom who I felt was blaming parents, which is not exactly constructive.

the rest of my comments are mostly about smaller schools, and agreement with this Op-ed.

I’m not in agreement that challenging leaders, or some of your posts is about my poor following skills

maybe we need to examine our following skills.

Me Too,
Your poor attitude toward parents makes me wonder how close you are to the administration. That attitude is part of what is hampering progress. I agree with teacher pushback, “leadership is knowing how to bring people together” — and get things done — not gripe endlessly about involved parents wanting to make our district better and help our kids, not malign them to cover up lack of leadership.

I am wondering how long will it take for the district to answer the questions that were posted her. According to the reporter, Skelly handed him the public questions, but sadly they had no answer. Shall we all go and try to answer them? Other raise it feels like we were ignored again. Can some one who has a good relation wish Skelly, ask him to give us the answers first, it does not make sense to have the questions only.

@Observer – I’m sorry that you find my statements self-righteous (again, that ad hominen thing). I just call it like I see it. As I said, the contrast to what I’ve seen elsewhere is stark and seems worth pointing out – leaders and followers often (usually) share the responsibility for the results they get. Take it as you will.

Me Too,

my take on following is that it’s easy to follow when the stakes are low, and they don’t impact you. Everyday Math was a non-issue for the parents in middle or high school, and anything that is currently a HS issue is not in the radar of the elementary parents. Your East Coast community may be highly educated, but that does not mean it is identical to PA, and their conformity could also be they may be satisfied with their leadership.

we’re either way talking about exceptional schools here, which some want to continue seeing as such or better. Skelly can’t take the credit for all that works or should take the blame for what needs work.

But he is the one pinned with helping set the tone, and for making progress.

This model of school will work only if Skelly gets to accept that our schools are turning to big, and our struggling students are being hard to identify and to find them professional health. According to him, there is not problem. The problems are the parents who push their children to achieve more than they can. In one meeting he mentioned that his daughter (who only attended couple of years at Gunn) had a great time at Gunn, and that is how he basis that there is no problem,

teacher pushback,
You bring up an excellent point there with your quote.

Everything I’ve read about schools within schools is that in order for them to work, they really have to be two separate schools. With separate administrations, even separate entrances. Basically, you are making two separate schools, and sharing some spaces like gyms with contracts between the two schools, but otherwise, they are separate schools. You only do that when you don’t have the option of reopening a decommissioned high school! We have the high school and the money approved to do it!

Here’s an interesting Brookings Institution Slide Show from some professors at our very own Stanford University
http://www.brookings.edu/GS/brown/bpepconference/Harris_Presentation.pdf

It is not very encouraging about schools within schools.

I’ve read a review paper on school size from Brookings that said absolutely the best situation you can have when you start getting into the 2000 student range is a decommissioned school site that you can bring online (but the paper says the difficulty is that you then usually have to pass a bond measure — but we’ve already passed it!) So basically, we’re ignoring the optimal thing, and spending perhaps just as much money on something that is likely to hurt all the things we care about in our schools!

Observer,

I’m with you there: I do not want to see our high schools turn into mega-schools.

My comments were directed at the main article and some follow-ups about the state of the schools as they are today and the reasons for stress. I think our two high schools are doing a phenomenal job of educating a large and diverse population of students, and they offer a lot of high-quality options. I feel very fortunate to live here and to have my daughter go to school here, and I’ve felt that way since she was in kindergarten. I hope the quality of education here is just as high in a few years, when the current crop of elementary kids are in high school.

Again, on the issue of stress, I think we as parents (working with counselors) need to be sure our children are making choices that are not overwhelming to them. We also need to comunicate to our children that they don’t need to excel at everything in order to live a happy and successful life. From what I have observed, the atmosphere at Gunn is supportive of students in these respects. Let’s quit blaming the teachers and administrators.

Observer,

interesting that “some strategies to create schools-within-a-school have reinforced academic and social stratification” which is clearly NOT what I was thinking about and thus admit to the danger of my non-expert suggestions.

but there’s no shortage of expert opinions and common sense to support the 3rd High School, where we likely don’t have leadership for

for the real problems happening now though, the Dauber letter deserves a response, which maybe Skelly has already done on the side.

If nothing is ever done about school size, the least they can do is to have something like TEAM, where core teachers coordinate homework, and actually track or pay attention to a specific set of students. Or hire more counselors, is it really a cost issue why more are not hired?

for some of the changes, Skelly is not necessary, better to work directly with staff and admin at Paly and Gunn. At Paly the block schedule got done from the inside. Ground up leadership at the schools will hopefully rise to the occasion, and time will tell how this will work if/when HS’s reach 2500 and the college arm’s race continues.

Parent,
I’m not sure the house system is a model of developing community and optimizing the social environment in this country (or in Britain). And it would require planning changes to infrastructure in implementation that could be on the order of schools within schools — or, at least I think that’s possible — as with all of this stuff, we just don’t know because no one has done the due diligence and taken ideas and run numbers on them. I’d sure like to see your suggestion, and my suggestions (Cubberley as choice school or satellite campus), and other suggestions, discussed with the public, along with the implications of the current track, and real honest numbers and problem solving to allows us to compare.

Although, it doesn’t all come down to dollars and cents. If parents in this district do not want ultra big schools, for whatever reason, they ought to be able to choose that. The administration owes it to the public to be very clear about what it is doing in that regard and what the implications are.

(Thank you, Happy Gunn Parent, you make some good points.)

The House system would bring a feeling of belonging to a House even more so than a school. It wouldn’t affect classes, but allow for each student to be identified as a member of their House within the larger school. Think Harry Potter and Gryffendor, having competition, mascots, traditions and leaders from within a small group as a model.

I agree that it would not be as optimum as a smaller school, but if at least it was discussed and dismissed it would be better than what we have now. I would rather reopen Cubberley too but this could be introduced within a year.

Me Too,
Let me clarify even further since you don’t seem to understand what ad hominem means.

I never once made an ad hominem attack on you. I did criticize your criticism of others, and the way it was used to dismiss the efforts of others, (the opposite of ad hominem).

Ad hominem means you attack a person in place of offering a substantive argument, kind of closer to what you did when you launched generalized, dismissive comments about the way other parents in this district go about trying to deal with solving its problems — you are attacking those parents rather than offering any facts or substantive arguments yourself. My telling you that is not ad hominem just because you perceive it as criticism — that’s criticism, or, the truth.

You and I hadn’t had a discussion when I first posted — did you read my first posts? Are you telling me that our having this discussion distracts from the facts and problems of our youth in this district? Oh brother.

You wrote, “To any of the “smaller schools” advocates – what do the school board members and administrators say when you bring up the proposal?

On which occasion? Either the answer was nothing at all, or it was sweeping generalizations or diverting statements that were so wrong, it could only have meant total incompetence (which I don’t believe) or other motives.

For example, claiming on a number of occasions that we’d had a High School Task Force conclude we shouldn’t open a third high school to end discussion. The High School Task Force — which took place before these huge enrollment changes, before the tanking of the economy changed the building cost equation, before the high school construction plan brought up all these enormous costs associated with going mega school, etc — ultimately concluded that it did not have the expertise to decide whether to reopen Cubberley and asked to redirect its mission (it’s in the paper). But that didn’t stop top administrators from claiming that as the reason they had chosen not to look at the Cubberley question.

There have been a number of other things I could point out, but mostly the silence has been deafening. Mostly, the administration has simply ignored calls to bring these issues to the public and look at the hard facts and compare.

Me Too,

I wouldn’t call myself an “advocate”, and have already admitted to being a non-expert. I am adding my opinion to this thread with the belief and idea that smaller schools must be important to “connectedness” and for many issues raised in the Op-Ed.

What kid of a “proposal” would you think I should write to the board members and administrators, something with research, data, asbestos studies, and construction plans for a third high school? Or compose an irresistible case for smaller schools? Would a one liner saying I like smaller schools do?

Far more eloquent and informed people are urging for planning for the possibility of more schools. See thread on Former official urges schools to ‘bank land.’ I take this to also mean to think beyond expanding current sites

http://www.PaloAltoOnline.com/news/show_story.php?id=20096

I’ll look out for the response to this, stay an informed voter, and I hope the powers that be are not holding their breath for my proposal about smaller schools

turning the issues to make this about my leadership skills though is interesting

Me too.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, and Yes. They’ve been asked publicly. By many people.

In answer to your question – what do the school board members and administrators say when you bring up the proposal? Again:

On which occasion? Either the answer was nothing at all, or it was sweeping generalizations or diverting statements that were so wrong, it could only have meant total incompetence (which I don’t believe) or other motives.

For example, claiming on a number of occasions that we’d had a High School Task Force conclude we shouldn’t open a third high school to end discussion. The High School Task Force — which took place before these huge enrollment changes, before the tanking of the economy changed the building cost equation, before the high school construction plan brought up all these enormous costs associated with going mega school, before the string of suicides brought the emotional health issue to the fore, etc — ultimately concluded that it did not have the expertise to decide whether to reopen Cubberley and asked to redirect its mission (it’s in the paper). But that didn’t stop top administrators from claiming that as the reason they had chosen not to look at the Cubberley question.

If you attend or watch school board meetings, you would see the above claims made publicly and on tape. I think in one meeting, they said they would answer one parent’s questions on the issue and then proceeded not to.

There have been a number of other things I could point out, but mostly the silence has been deafening. Mostly, the administration has simply ignored copious calls to bring these issues to the public and look at the hard facts and compare.

Where have you been? Here’s an article by a parent a year ago in the Weekly: Flaws in school-improvement planning process jeopardize outcomes. http://www.paloaltoonline.com/weekly/story.php?story_id=11065

Here’s another article about a school board meeting
http://www.paloaltoonline.com/weekly/story.php?story_id=10637

One parent public asked “ trustees to seriously consider re-opening Cubberley as a high school.” And “Preschool parent Kirstin Sego argued that it is too early to approve a master plan. ‘There’s a large sector of this community that’s really unaware this is going on,’ Sego said. ‘I’m not sure the dialogue has really happened. It’s premature to be approving a master plan when, from the members of the community I’ve spoken with, there hasn’t been enough work done.'”

What did the administrators say to that? Mostly nothing at all. In the past, mostly stuff like the above nonsense with the HSTF.

Me Too,

“I just figure that would illuminate the district’s thinking”

Illuminate the district’s thinking?

the Dauber letter should help, and “Former official urges schools to ‘bank land.’

connecting the dots would help too

Me Too,
Your making the argument about “teacher pushback’s” leadership skills?
That’s ad hominem.

Me Too,
You asked,
“I mean specifically has anyone on this thread personally made contact and had a one-on-one conversation”

YES. OUI. JA. Si. In writing. In person. Please do me the courtesy of actually reading my posts instead of just asking the same question over and over again. I gave you many examples. I kindly separated out my patiently explaining to you what “ad hominem” was (and how you were in fact leveling ad hominem attacks at me — and don’t seem to be able to stop yourself!) in a separate post so you could look at just that by itself.

I not only told you yes, I gave you a link to an article that had quotes from three people at a board meeting who were quoted as saying that. Have you ever gone to a board meeting? The public only gets three minutes per person to say something, but in those three minutes, they are standing in front of the board, face-to-face, and telling them what they think. That’s just a small example.

I and other parents I know have had those conversations. The fact is, the board and Skelley have been asked to their faces on numerous occasions to have this discussion with the public about the implications of the construction decisions — IT IS PUBLIC RECORD — and they have failed to do so.

You want me to stop this back and forth? Let’s talk about the plan. Instead of incessantly criticizing parents in this district and the way they talk, asking if they have done this or that, or trying to find some deficiency in the posters on this forum, why don’t we talk about the issues? Search on “Observer” to find my first post on this forum.

Let’s talk about the fact that the district is going to spend millions of dollars enlarging Gunn and Paly to take huge student populations instead of using potentially the same money reopening Cubberley. Let’s talk about the fact that our leadership has never opened a dialog with the public about the implications of this decision, never tried to educate the public about the implications of this decision, never asked if this is what parents want, never made a specific and factual comparison of the options, in spite of how much evidence is on record that some people who do understand have asked him to do so.

Sorry, but I’m not going to stop talking about that, no matter how much you continue to criticize me. (“I don’t give ’em Hell, I just give ’em the truth and they think it’s Hell.”) You want to have a dialog about just the issues? Why don’t you start talking about them? The rest of us are.

Me Too

I agree with Observer that you bring up no points of substance, just repeat the same questions

in case you ask again…..you have my previous answers about my approaching the district or writing a proposal to the district, or emailing, calling or walking over to see them,

have not

but it is my choice to comment here about smaller schools when issues of “connectedness” are brought up on THIS thread in response to this Op-Ed,

so…., as I was saying, and no I have not broached this with the authorities,

“connectedness” is impacted by school size, and while some of the smaller changes can be made at the school sites, the really big issue is why are the size of the High Schools not being addressed,

especially now, with elementary enrollment going up, I look forward to seeing the math about how this will impact the High Schools

teacher pushback,
You are right – whether the public has pushed for the board to open a dialog with the public or not about the direction of the district and the far-reaching implications of the decisions being made in the Measure A/high school construction isn’t the important issue.

The important issue is that a sensible leader would have done this already. (I know friends with project management experience who have gone to the planning meetings and come home shaking their heads, saying those people don’t know how to manage a project of this magnitude.)

It’s incumbent on our leadership to initiate this dialog. The fact that they haven’t is a failure of leadership. (They can’t complain about pushy parents in one breath then complain that parents didn’t push hard enough to get them to do their jobs in another.)

Really,
Skelly made the decisions about the direction of our high school construction before he even know what the Young 5’s program in our district was, before Measure A was even passed, and before we knew about increasing enrollments and what the construction would entail and cost. He may be an expert on education (I wouldn’t know), but he’s sure not doing a great job at project management. Lots of people are experts in their fields; it doesn’t make them great leaders. We do need leadership right now, this is a critical time.

Your comment is just another nasty stab at trying to stop discussion and dismiss valid criticism. We’re all waiting for Skelley to explain why his decisions for the district run so counter to so many other experts on education. Not only do I welcome the open discussion, many of us have been calling for it.

Nothing gets done in this town? How about the Measure A bond that was passed, largely because of parent involvement? We parents got that Measure A facilities bond passed (and the one more recently for operations), are paying the taxes for it, making the sacrifices to live here, for a purpose. We have a right to know how our money is being spent and if it is going to create something different than we worked to provide for our kids.

I take exception to your characterization of our schools. We get SO MUCH done because of how involved the parents are. We’re providing private school education on public school funding and with barebones tools. The parents, the PTAs, are a huge part of that.

If you or Skelly or anyone else disagrees with all the other educational experts out there, then by all means, lets have that discussion. But the public deserves that accountability.

This district is what it is because of involved parents. That is and was no secret. If Skelley couldn’t abide highly educated, smart, involved parents, this was not his district. He’s a big boy, he could have chosen something more to his liking.

Every parent I know is the first and most important expert on their own child’s education. They have the most important input and say in what they want for their child’s education. In this district, they have chosen to tax themselves through the nose for a certain purpose, and our leadership should be accountable, not demean, dismiss, and try to avoid parents as you have done in your ridiculous post.

We are at a critical juncture here. The decisions we make here will set the course of our district for decades to come. They will cost our parents enormous sums of money. The parents deserve good leadership and accountability. We deserve a say in that direction, just as much as we did when we were being asked to decide to foot the bill.

I think at the heart, some of the “agitators” and advocates on this thread and elsewhere do want to accomplish good. I’m not sure they have a good sense of how to go about it, but they may figure it out. I think that some are not aware of the harm they can cause through stridency and hyperbole (and, yes, ad hominen statements ;-), which we have way too much of in Palo Alto and elsewhere. I wish you all good luck in having the kind of dialog with the district and other parents about the kind of schools we’d like to have.

Next Tuesday March 8, there will be two school board meetings. One at 9:30 in the morning to discuss the demographic issues raised by “Observer” in this thread, including elementary enrollment and planning for growth, and another one in the evening at 6:30. The 6:30 meeting will include a presentation by Amy Drolette on “connectedness” which will likely be a do-over of the disastrous presentation at St. Marks.

There will be discussion of authorizing the construction bids to begin to make the High Schools larger.

There will also be some discussion of the new “Math Task Force,” which like the previous High School Task Force has a mission that has been circumscribed to preclude discussion of the actual issues.

These three items are interesting in light of the discussion in this thread. Though parents were strongly concerned about school stress, larger high schools, and Everyday Math, the Board of Ed and the Superintendent pressed ahead on these things anyway. These are all three areas where the community feels that it was not heard, and where it feels the democratic process has failed.

As the Op-Ed notes, the failure to deal with school stress has created a public health crisis among PA youth. The other two issues are also troublin from that perspective since the kids who can’t do long division as a result of our terrible curriculum aren’t going to find larger schools a better place to receive attention and remediation. Instead Everyday Math is going to create an even bigger gap between the educational haves and have-nots over at Gunn.

All three of these leadership failures will, over the next 10 years (after Skelly packs up his carpetbag and moves on) leave our children who are now in the elementary schools even more stressed, and with fewer resources.

Come to the Board Meeting and be heard. We need smaller schools, not bigger ones. We need to discontinue Everyday Math, a program that especially fails students with weaker math skills and fewer parental resources for tutoring. We need to reevaluate aspects of our curriculum consistent with the letter to the editor in this week’s Weekly from a Paly teacher who called for limiting the number of APs any one student can take, as well as make other changes to scheduling, teacher assignments, and curriculum so that our students are not being crushed by the relentless PAUSD Stress Machine.

Come to the Board Meeting and Speak Up!

Observer – why don’t you run for the school board?

I wouldn’t vote for you, but maybe someone else would.

Observer —
It’s worse than your post suggests because three of these school board member who would have stood for reelection this fall have voted themselves an additional year on their terms so that we cannot even exercise what little control we have through the democratic process.

These three include Barbara Klausner, who foisted the Everyday Math program on our children and now is fumbling around trying to save her seat by having us pay for “gifted” math enrichment in every school, basically to buy off the parents who are now crazy with rage over Everyday Math.

We have the option of recalling the Board. That would require approximately 7500 signatures, which is a lot. On the other hand, we would probably only need to get around 3000 before they were scared enough to change course on some of these things. Although recalls are very controversial and hard to pull off, there is a lot of anger in the community particularly around (1) everyday math, which really is a catastrophe particularly for poorer kids and those from less academically oriented families; and (2) the mega-school issue. Issue (2) is clearly related to the mental health crisis.

Finally, the Board selected Kevin Skelly and his leadership has been a disaster. He has been flat-footed in his responses to many issues of great concern to parents.

These are not issues that are ridiculous tempest in a teapot issues — the math curriculum is horrible. We didn’t want it. We are a highly educated community of scientists and engineers and we are capable of reading the literature and concluding that the curriculum is not the one we want. He didn’t listen.

The schools are getting too crowded and large. We have a suicide epidemic. Our kids are under way too much stress. A city-wide study commission, PSN made specific recommendations to address those issues. He didn’t listen. Not only that, he went the other way and we are now getting schools increasing in size by 15%.

These aren’t trivial issues. People are really upset about them and justifiably so.

I believe if an election were held today they would face a serious “throw the bums out” mentality. In response to whether there are structures that could be developed to have “citizen oversight” of the school board, I don’t know. It might be better just to throw them out, get a more responsive board in, and everyone will then understand that actions have consequences and if the board fails again it can be replaced again.

Accountability will have an impact. But we have to show up and demand accountability for the actions and decisions of our elected and appointed leaders.

“parents”
See, that’s just the thing. You’ve expressed some pretty strong opinions there with no supporting facts whatsoever. You’ve made sweeping attacks on this forum and all the posters. And then you’ve made angry demands based on your opinion as if it is fact. How about you follow your own advice first and “Quit complaining and actually get [yourself] informed?”

Everything I said in my 8-point post above has objective and respected resources backing it up. I am very active in my school community, and parents are overwhelmingly against making our high schools larger, especially since it will come at a premium in cost. But I would say that’s of the parents who understand what is happening, most don’t have any idea of what is happening, because the district hasn’t so far been accountable for that dialog with the public.

Our leadership has made no effort to be open and candid with the public about the direction and consequences of the high school construction. Most parents don’t even realize what the priorities in the construction are, and how little analysis and fact has gone into setting those priorities.

I agree that no one should make up facts — most especially not the leadership.

Most of us on this list have been calling for fact finding, especially when it comes to the high school construction. I agree with you on that 1000%! The leadership has failed to explore and problem solve our potential options.

I could cynically point out that our leadership chose construction professionals that Kevin Skelley worked with before, and whether there were conflicts in the selection or not, it certainly gives the appearance of conflicts now because of how stubbornly unwilling he has been to examine our options, look at the facts, and discuss them openly with the public. Even more cynically, there has been some outright misrepresentations in board meetings, such as of what the High School Task Force did, as a way of blunting discussion. (I am not making any accusations here, only pointing out the appearance of conflicts and relaying that I have heard far worse on the school grounds from other parents wondering what is going on.)

H

Batak

“district revised their plans and placed laning and acceleration/deceleration off limits” for elementary math

that would mean the district gets it, because laning in elementary is like having AP’s in elementary. Gifted and Talented in Palo Alto is 2/3 of the student population, and I may be low balling that. I would not lose any sleep that gifted funds are not being used well.

It would be nice if the thread does not turn into an Everyday Math discussion, you can start a new thread for that.

the Op-Ed is about a serious issue.

Batak – per federal guidelines, The District determines who is a gifted student. “The final determination of eligibility of a pupil rests with the administrative head of the school district or a designated employee of the districts in accordance with procedures adopted by the local governing board. “ There are a few real instances of GATE enrichment in Middle School, mainly bumping kids up math lanes or teaching 7th grade math to the 6th grade kids, etc.

Before you are skeptical about how many “gifted” kids there are in PAUSD, it is pretty common for a students to score in the 95th percentile on standardized tests nationwide, yet be in the bottom 30 percent in PAUSD.

There are many elementary schools that start “laning” in math in the 4th or 5th grade. They split the students by ability and each teacher takes a different group for math (so if there are 3 5th grade classes, you could have 3 math “lanes”). For the school my children attended, this was done by topic, so if you really got multiplication, you would be in the “high” lane for that, but if you didn’t quite get division, you would be with a different group… It made a lot of sense. But that still didn’t challenge the small handful of kids who were truly gifted in math (out of 60 kids, that would be maybe 2-3).

We also seem to only be interested as a community in kids who are gifted in math or math-related subjects. There are kids who are gifted in art, music, drama, writing, etc. and if you think we don’t challenge kids in math, try those other topics. And science has become an afterthought because of all the math/english testing…

palo alto mom,

I’m not sure you understand what “enrichment” means in the educational sense, but it does not happen in pausd. In particular, the middle schools do not offer math enrichment or teach 7th grade math to sixth graders. I agree that those would be of use to gifted kids.

“Before you are skeptical about how many “gifted” kids there are in PAUSD, it is pretty common for a students to score in the 95th percentile on standardized tests nationwide, yet be in the bottom 30 percent in PAUSD.” Again, standardized tests have little to do with gifted kids–you are conflating good test takers with gifted.

The elementary schools explicitly do not lane–it is against pausd policy. As you point out, the differentiated instruction your kids experienced is of no help to the handful of gifted kids.

“We also seem to only be interested as a community in kids who are gifted in math or math-related subjects. There are kids who are gifted in art, music, drama, writing, etc. and if you think we don’t challenge kids in math, try those other topics.” 100% agree–kids gifted in anything but math get absolutely nothing.

Paly Alum,

“most of the children here are smarter than average Americans.” Nah.

“If one can afford a mortgage in Palo Alto, the person is probably in the gifted category, thus their children are most likely “gifted” too.” You apparently didn’t take any critical thinking classes.

“Only a couple of children from each grade level are so advanced that they need to eventually go outside of their school for more advanced math.” Er, yeah, that was the point. There is nothing for the gifted kids….

Several members of the community who are upset about the failure of the district to address academic stress issues were present at the Board meeting last night.

Last night at the Board meeting, Amy Drolette reprised her St. Mark’s power-point presentation on “connectedness.” Amy repeatedly stated that the district is merely following the Project Safety Net Plan. Following that, Ken Dauber addressed the Board and pointed out that the district is not, in fact, following the PSN plan. Or, more properly, is following only half the plan. It is not addressing any of the items listed in the PSN report under P-8, entitled “Supportive School Environment” which recommends such reforms as reduced homework, placing finals before break, and addressing curriculum issues in order to reduce academic stress.

Dauber noted that he had been in contact with Skelly since the publication of his editorial in the Weekly 2 weeks ago and had requested that the Superintendent put an item on the Board agenda requiring the district to report on its progress on Item P-8 at Gunn. Dauber reported to the Board that Skelly had replied that P-8 was “not a priority.” Dauber noted that priorities are things you set when you don’t have the bandwidth to do all the things you need to do. In this case, the district can both work on what he termed the “root cause” of adolescent depression in academic stress, and simultaneously help to identify depressed children and connect them to services. It is not an either/or choice. Dauber concluded by asking the Board to instruct Skelly to implement section P-8 of the PSN report. Which they did not do.

Board President Maria Caswell did ask Skelly to respond to Dauber but he refused.

Next Board Meeting: March 22, where PRE-BREAK FINALS will be on the agenda. Come to the Board Meeting and hold your local officials accountable!